EFTA00142251

1 2 3 4 DIGITALLY RECORDED 5 SWORN STATEMENT 6 OF 7 8 9 OIG CASE #: 10 2019-010614 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE 19 OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL 20 APRIL 7, 2022 21 22 23 24 25 RESOLUTE DOCUMENTATION SERVICES 28632 Roadside Drive, Suite 285 Agoura Hills, CA 91301 Phone: (818) 431-5800 EFTA00142251 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 APPEARANCES: 2 3 OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL 4 BY: 5 BY: 6 7 8 WITNESS: 9 10 11 12 OTHER APPEARANCES: 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 EFTA00142252 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. I. : This is Special Agent 2 . Today is April 7, 2022. The 3 time is 10:21 a.m. The recorder is now on. 4 My name is . I'm a Special 5 Agent with the U.S. Department of Justice, 6 Office of the Inspector General, New York Field 7 Office. These are my credentials. 8 MR. I. : I'm going to -. Man. 9 MR. I. : This interview with 10 Federal Bureau of Prisons employee, 11 , is being conducted as part of an 12 official U.S. Department of Justice, Office of 13 the Inspector General investigation. Today's 14 date is April 7, 2022. The time is 10:22 a.m. 15 This interview is being conducted at the 16 Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector 17 General, New York Field Office. Also present 18 are DOJ/OIG Assistant Special Agent-in-Charge, 19 , and via phone is DOJ/OIG 20 Assistant Special Agent-in-Charge, 21 22 This interview will be recorded by me, 23 Special Agent Could everyone 24 please identify themselves for the record and 25 spell your last name. To start again, I am EFTA00142253 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 4 1 DOJ/OIG Special Agent 2 '. 3 MR. : Assistant Special Agent-in- 4 Charge 5 MR. I. 6 Electronics Technician. Last name, 7 8 MR. I. : ASAC , can you 9 introduce yourself, please? 10 MR. : Yes, this is Special Agent-in- 11 Charge 12 MR. I. : Thank you. 13 This is an official DOJ/OIG investigation 14 into events surrounding the death of inmate 15 Epstein, and you are being asked to 16 voluntarily provide answers to our questions. 17 Will you agree to a voluntary interview with 18 the DOJ/OIG? 19 MR. I. : Yes. 20 MR. I. : Please review DOJ/OIG form 21 11I-226/2. The form states, United States 22 Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector 23 General, Warnings and Assurances form, 24 Assurances to Employee Requested to Provide 25 Information on a Voluntary Basis. "You are EFTA00142254 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 5 1 being asked to provide information as part of 2 an investigation being conducted by the DIG. 3 This investigation is being conducted pursuant 4 to the Inspector General Act of 1978, as 5 amended. This investigation pertains to job 6 performance failure and security failure. This 7 is a voluntary interview. Accordingly, you do 8 not have to answer any questions. No 9 disciplinary action will be taken against you 10 if you choose not to answer any questions. 11 Any statement you furnish may be used as 12 evidence in any future criminal proceedings or 13 agency disciplinary proceedings or both." 14 The waiver states, "I understand the 15 warnings and assurances stated above and I am 16 willing to make a statement and answer 17 questions. No promises or threats have been 18 made to me and no pressure or coercion of any 19 kind has been used against me." This is the 20 same form we've provided you before. 21 MR. I. : Yes. 22 MR. I. : Please review it. If you 23 understand, on the right side, please print 24 your name and sign your name. If you 25 understand and agree -- EFTA00142255 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. I. : Okay. 2 MR. I. : -- sign and print. 3 MR. I. I will sign and print. 4 MR. I. : Do you understand the 5 form? 6 MR. I. : Yes. 7 MR. I. Thank you. 8 This is Special Agent , I'm 9 signing on the signature of the Office of the 10 Inspector General Special Agent. And ASAC -- 11 MR. : This is -- 12 MR. I. : I'm sorry. 13 MR. : ASAC 14 I'm signing on the signature of witness line. 15 MR. I. : Before starting the 16 interview, I would like to place you under 17 oath. Mr. , can you please raise your 18 right hand? Do you swear to tell the truth and 19 nothing but the truth during this interview? 20 MR. I. : Yes. 21 MR. I. : Thank you. You can put 22 your right hand down. Please let me know if 23 you don't understand any questions and I'll try 24 to repeat it or try to rephrase it for you. 25 MR. I. : Okay. EFTA00142256 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 7 1 MR. I. : Thank you. Thank you for 2 taking the time to meet with us today. We have 3 a few follow-up questions. 4 MR. I. : Mm-hmm. 5 MR. I. : You met with us twice 6 before. 7 MR. I. : Yes. 8 MR. I. : And it's based on our 9 interview, from prior, we had a few follow-up 10 questions in regards to that, and a few new 11 questions for you, too. 12 MR. I. : Okay. 13 MR. I. : Before we begin, what is 14 your current employment status with the BOP? 15 MR. I. : I'm an electronics 16 technician at MDC Brooklyn, Com Tech. Same 17 position I was in MCC. 18 MR. I. : And this is your permanent 19 position now? 20 MR. I : Yes. 21 MR. I. : And you transferred over? 22 MR. I. : Yes, when they closed it 23 down. 24 MR. I. : Okay. So, let's take a 25 step back. In August 2019, what was your EFTA00142257 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 typical work schedule? 2 MR. I. : My schedule was 6:00 to 3 2:00 p.m. 4 MR. I. : 6:00 to 2:00 p.m. Is that 5 Monday through Friday? 6 MR. I. : Monday through Friday. 7 During that time, I think I was working 8 overtime because we started the camera project. 9 MR. I. : The camera project is? 10 MR. I. : Before all this got 11 started, we were upgrading the cameras in the 12 MCC. So, my schedule changed, and I was 13 working, like, ten or 12 hours a day during 14 this time. 15 MR. I. : So, Monday through Friday, 16 normal schedule would be 6:00 a.m. to 2:00 17 p.m.? 18 MR. I. : Yes. 19 MR. I. : So, that would be about 20 eight hours. 21 MR. I. : Yes. 22 MR. I. : So. if you're working ten 23 to 12, that means you were working to, what, 24 about 4:00 p.m., 6:00 p.m.? 25 MR. I. : Yes. EFTA00142258 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. I. : Okay. And what about on 2 the weekends? 3 MR. I. : I was working a little bit 4 of overtime there during that time, too. 5 MR. I. : Okay. And is that 6 something you needed prior approval for, or -? 7 MR. I. : Yes. Well, they knew what 8 was going on, so I got pretty much prior 9 approval. If I showed up, I showed up. If it 10 didn't, they didn't really Because the 11 project was going on. I have a life, too. I 12 can't just be working at the prison all the 13 time, so they understood if I didn't show up or 14 didn't come in for overtime. Because my 15 regular schedule is Monday through Friday, 6:00 16 to 2:00. 17 MR. I. : Okay. And as needed, you 18 would come in, too? 19 MR. I. : Yes. 20 MR. I. : ASAC , did you have 21 anything in regards to his schedule? 22 MR. : I did not. Thanks. 23 MR. I. : No problem. I'm going to 24 move on. 25 In our previous interview, you mentioned EFTA00142259 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 10 1 you had recalled having a conversation with SIS 2 Lieutenant . You remember her, right? 3 MR. I. : Yes. 4 MR. I. : Thursday, August 8th, you 5 had a conversation with her about cameras not 6 working inside the MCC. Do you recall that? 7 MR. I. : Thursday or Friday. 8 MR. I. : Thursday, August 8th. 9 MR. I. : No. 10 MR. I. : You don't recall having a 11 conversation with her? 12 MR. I. : The only time they spoke 13 about it was Friday, about the cameras, that I 14 remember. 15 MR. I. : So, you recall on Friday. 16 Who did you have a conversation with? 17 MR. I. : Lieutenant and 18 that's when I spoke to . She's the 19 Associate Warden. That's when they told me 20 that the cameras were down, on that Friday. 21 MR. I. : On that Friday? 22 MR. I. : Yes. 23 MR. I. : So, just to clarify a 24 little bit. So, Lieutenant wasn't 25 working on Friday, August 9th. They were EFTA00142260 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 actually working -- 2 MR. I. : Mm-hmm. 3 MR. I. -- she was off on August 4 9th. 5 MR. I. : August 9th. 6 MR. I. : Friday, August 9th. She 7 was working on Thursday, August 8th. 8 MR. I. : Yeah. 9 MR. I. : According to the schedule, 10 she was working Thursday, August 8th, and the 11 conversation that she told us about happened on 12 - she recalls - that it happened on Thursday, 13 August 8th, Associate Warden also stated 14 it happened on Thursday, August 8th. 15 MR. I. : Oh, so it must have been 16 Thursday. 17 MR. I. : Okay. 18 MR. I. : I'm not too sure because 19 everything was jumbled in. 20 MR. I. : Okay. And do you recall 21 what the issue was with the cameras? 22 MR. I. : They said they wasn't 23 recording. 24 MR. I. : Was that the only issue 25 you remember? Was there anything else with the EFTA00142261 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 camera? 2 MR. I. : They couldn't pull video 3 for whatever reason. They couldn't extract 4 video. They were looking for video for 5 something and they couldn't find it. 6 MR. I. : So, it wasn't recording, 7 and they couldn't pull any video? 8 MR. I. : Yes. 9 MR. I. : Do you remember if there 10 were any cameras -? So, when they were trying 11 to pull video, where were they trying to pull 12 video from? 13 MR. I. : I have no idea. I don't 14 really remember what they were trying to pull 15 video from, or why. 16 MR. I. : Which office were you guys 17 in? 18 MR. I. : Probably on the second 19 floor by the - maybe the SIS Office, or it was 20 in the Video Room. 21 MR. I. : All by the -. What's the 22 difference? 23 MR. I. : The Video Room is where 24 they have the monitors and the SIS Office is 25 right down the hallway, where the SIS Office EFTA00142262 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 would be. 2 MR. I. : Okay. And do you remember 3 standing there trying to help them pull video? 4 MR. I. : Yes. 5 MR. I. : And when you were trying 6 to pull video, do you remember looking up at 7 the screens and seeing any blank screens? 8 MR. I. : In the SIS Shop? 9 MR. I. : In the SIS Shop, or on the 10 monitors. There's a lot of monitors. 11 MR. I. : Oh, the SIS, that was, 12 that has been in and out forever. That was not 13 really working properly even when I got there. 14 There's been issues. There was issues with 15 that. 16 MR. I. : Can you explain that a 17 little further? 18 MR. I. : Okay. So, was it in the 19 Video Room or the SIS Shop? 20 MR. I. : I'm not sure where this 21 happened, so based on recollection, if you can 22 tell me, if you recall where this happened? 23 MR. I. : If I was looking at 24 multiple monitors, it probably was in the Video 25 Room. That's where they have -. The live feed EFTA00142263 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 14 1 goes to the video matrix, and then it's split, 2 and it goes to all the other cameras. 3 MR. I. : So, you're saying if it's 4 in the SIS Shop, and there was issues in the 5 SIS Shop? 6 MR. I. : No, if it was in the SIS 7 Shop, that's the network. They're on the 8 computer and they're trying to pull video. If 9 they're in the Video Room, it's the live feed 10 that's going to the cameras. 11 MR. I. : Okay. 12 MR. I. : And it's inputted on the 13 screen. It's split going to the recorder, and 14 it's split on the output going to the actual 15 screens. Yeah. 16 MR. I. : So, which ones had issues 17 where you couldn't see anything? 18 MR. I. : I don't know. Because it 19 was a lot of stuff not working at that time. I 20 can't really -. 21 MR. I. : Do you remember any 22 screens being black, like blanked out with X's 23 on them, at that point? 24 MR. I. : I don't know. It was 25 that room was always a mess when I got there, EFTA00142264 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 as far as stuff not working or working. 2 MR. I. : But you don't remember 3 them, Lieutenant or , mentioning, 4 hey, listen these screens are blank. There's 5 X's on them, they're not working. You just 6 mentioned that - just on topic - you just 7 mentioned that there were always issues. 8 MR. I. : Yes, there were always 9 issues. Sometimes, I would go in there and 10 stuff was working. Sometimes, I'd go in there, 11 stuff was not working. Exactly what was 12 working or not working, I'm not too sure of. 13 MR. I. : So, which one was it? 14 Just to clarify. I missed that. Which one was 15 it that wasn't working -- 16 MR. I. : So, what -. 17 MR. I. : -- the SIS or the Video 18 Room? 19 MR. I. : It would be the Video 20 Room. It wouldn't be in SIS, because -. Okay, 21 the Video Room is the live feed coming from the 22 analog matrix onto the actual screens. Some of 23 the cables got disconnected because there was 24 issues. And then SIS, that would be all of the 25 cameras in the institution. They would be EFTA00142265 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 16 1 coming from the network. They'd be trying to 2 pull video from the actual recorders. 3 MR. I. : So that's where basically 4 you can log in? 5 MR. I. : You log in and you try to 6 pull video. 7 MR. I. : Okay. So, you can - the 8 SIS Shop had the ability to log in -- 9 MR. I. : Yes, pull video. 10 MR. I. and review video. 11 MR. I. : Yes. 12 MR. I. : So, but the other part, 13 the video monitoring 14 MR. I. : That's just live 15 MR. I. : -- had to be live wired. 16 MR. I. : -- that's just live wire, 17 yeah. That's everything coming in. 18 MR. I. : And if the live wires were 19 removed by any chance, would that be a black 20 screen? 21 MR. I. : Yeah, it would be a black 22 screen, yes. 23 MR. I. : So ,is it possible this 24 conversation might have taken place with 25 Lieutenant inside the Video Monitor EFTA00142266 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 Room? If she recalls that there was 2 MR. I. : Yeah, if there were 3 screens -- 4 MR. I. : -- screens that -. 5 MR. I. : -- that's in the Video 6 Room, yes. 7 MR. I. : Black screens, okay. So, 8 do you recall her mentioning on August 8th - by 9 any chance, do you recall? I know it's been a 10 couple years -- 11 MR. I. : Hmm. 12 MR. I. it's hard to remember, 13 but do you recall her mentioning anything 14 about, hey, there's blank screens, access that 15 needs to be fixed? 16 MR. I. : I was working on that 17 since I got there. I was still working on 18 that, until I was leaving, so -. It was an 19 ongoing issue I knew about. But the main thing 20 was, even if the screens were blank, that 21 everything would be recorded, going to the 22 recorders. Like, the live view in the Video 23 Room, that's extra. But if you could pull 24 video from the recorders, that's the main thing 25 I was worried about. I wasn't really worried EFTA00142267 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 about the live view. 2 MR. I. : Okay. 3 MR. I. : That's something I would 4 have to worry about later. But the main thing 5 was to make sure the cameras are recording in 6 the institution. 7 MR. I. : Okay. And so, this 8 happened, well based on the fact that this 9 happened on Thursday, August 8th, do you recall 10 coming in August 9th fixing anything? On 11 August 9th? 12 MR. I. : I'm pretty sure I did. I 13 must have followed up. Because I was going to 14 come back Saturday to do something, so I know 15 on Friday, that's when I went back to the room. 16 MR. I. : Okay. I'm going to show 17 you a memo. There's a memo dated August 10th, 18 from II , SIS Lieutenant. That would be 19 20 MR. I. : Yeah. 21 MR. I. : To Captain. 22 MR. I. : Mm-hmm. 23 MR. I. : Subject was "NiceVision 24 Camera System." And for the record, I'm going 25 to read it, and then I'll show it to you. EFTA00142268 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. I. : Okay. 2 MR. I. : "On August 8, 2019, at 3 approximately 3:45 p.m., while reviewing the 4 Nice Camera System, I attempted to recover 5 video footage from the Unit 5 South Housing 6 Unit. At this time, I was unable to recover 7 any previous recordings from the camera, this 8 prompting me to review all of the cameras. 9 None of the cameras on the system were able to 10 record. Therefore, I called the communication 11 technician I. via radio." That would be 12 you, right? 13 MR. I. : Yes. 14 MR. I. : Okay. "At approximately 15 4:00 p.m., responded to the third floor 16 Monitoring Room to check the cameras and 17 notified me that the cameras were not recording 18 and there was no way to retrieve any video. 19 stated he fixed the camera system on 20 Friday, August 9, 2019, when he arrived to 21 work." 22 So, it looks like the memo was written on 23 August 10th and this is in regards to a 24 conversation she had with you on August 8, 25 2019, and at the end, she stated that you told EFTA00142269 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 20 1 her on August 9th, you told her on August 10th 2 that, when you came into work on August 9th, 3 you fixed the camera issue. Do you recall 4 that? 5 MR. I. : No. (Indiscernible 6 *00:12:58). 7 So, I was working after 3:45. So, I was 8 on overtime that day she called me? 9 MR. I. : It might have been. 10 MR. I. : Because I leave at 2:00. 11 MR. I. : So, you -. 12 MR. : You want to just read 13 through that again -- 14 MR. I. : Yeah. 15 MR. I. : Yeah. Read through it for 16 yourself. 17 MR. : -- and just -. 18 MR. I. : "At approximately 3:45 19 p.m. on the Nice System, I attempted to recover 20 -. At the time I was 21 MR. I. : There might be some 22 grammatical -. 23 MR. I. : Yeah, that doesn't really 24 25 MR. : Does that seem accurate, to EFTA00142270 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 your recollection? 2 MR. I. : No. 3 MR. I. : So, you don't recall 4 fixing anything? 5 MR. I. : I might have been looking 6 at something, but I have to make sure that it's 7 fixed, like, before I say, hey, you can pull 8 video and I have to pull video myself. 9 MR. I. : But she said there's a 10 possibility that, when you came in on the 9th, 11 you might have fixed the issues with the blank 12 screens. 13 MR. I. : Okay. 14 MR. I. : And then, you might have 15 came back in on August 10th, which would be 16 that Saturday, to fix the recording issue. 17 you think that might be accurate? 18 MR. I. : No. That doesn't really 19 make any sense to me, either. 20 MR. I. : Okay. Do you recall if - 21 I remember we spoke about this before, I don't 22 know if your memory hasn't recollected any of 23 it - but about you not being able to access the 24 SIS Shop because no one was in the SIS Shop. 25 MR. I. : Yeah, and I don't have the EFTA00142271 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 key to get in the room. 2 MR. I. : Okay. 3 MR. I. : I didn't have access to 4 get in the room. 5 MR. I. : Because no one was there 6 in the SIS Shop. 7 MR. I. : Yes, nobody was -. Yes. 8 MR. I. : And normally, there would 9 be somebody monitoring the phones, right? 10 MR. I. : Yes, there should be 11 phone monitor, if somebody was there, unless 12 they got pulled to work a different post. 13 MR. I. : Yeah. 14 MR. I. : But they're supposed to be 15 - that's supposed to be a post. 16 MR. I. : And that Friday, nobody 17 was there? On August 9th, I think they had 18 left early or something to that effect -- 19 MR. I. : Mm-hmm. 20 MR. I. : -- and then, you couldn't 21 get in. Do you recall - Lieutenant 22 mentioned to us that Captain had the 23 ability to get you into the room - do you know 24 if Captain had his own set of keys for 25 that room? EFTA00142272 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. I. : Yes, he did. 2 MR. I. : Separate from? 3 MR. I. : Yeah. The Captain I 4 think, or the SIS could get in that room. I'm 5 not too sure. 6 MR. I. : I know SIS -. Lieutenant 7 had her own set of keys. 8 MR. I. : Yeah, could get in with a 9 key. Yeah -- 10 MR. I. : Okay. 11 MR. I. : -- but I think the Captain 12 had the key to let me in the room. I'm not too 13 sure. Honestly. 14 MR. : You're not certain? 15 MR. I. : I'm not certain. 16 MR. I. : So, the SIS Lieutenant's 17 keys are kept behind some kind of box in the 18 control room. 19 MR. I. : Yeah, everything is kept 20 behind glass and the technician's, their keys 21 are kept behind glass. And whoever is in the 22 Video Room, it's behind glass. 23 MR. I. : Okay. But does the 24 Captain have his own set of keys? 25 MR. I. : Yes. EFTA00142273 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 24 1 MR. I. : That's not behind glass? 2 MR. I. : No. I don't know how they 3 do the Captain's. I know the SIS Shop, that 4 was the main key and if I tried to get in, it 5 was behind glass, to get in the room. 6 MR. I. : Do you recall approaching 7 Captain , asking him for access to that 8 room on August 9th? 9 MR. I. : I don't remember. 10 MR. I. : Okay. Because I know, 11 based on Captain Captain was in 12 the facility until about 8:00 p.m. on that 13 Friday night, August 9th? He worked until about 14 8:00 p.m. 15 MR. I. : Hmm. I didn't know that. 16 MR. I. : So, but you don't recall 17 ever seeing him, or talking to him, or asking 18 for access to that room to fix the cameras? 19 MR. I. : No. I don't remember. 20 Maybe I did, maybe I didn't. I don't - that's 21 I don't really -. 22 MR. I. : Okay. But if needed, you 23 could have asked Captain , he could have 24 let you in? 25 MR. I. : He would have locked the - EFTA00142274 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 25 1 if he had the key, yes, he would let me know. 2 MR. I. : Okay. ASAC 3 anything on that topic? 4 MR. : Yeah, in regard to the memo. 5 Mr. , I know that time on August 8th, 6 that seems way off based on what you had told 7 and before, and -- 8 MR. I. : Mm-hmm. 9 MR. : -- frankly, what had 10 told us. The key thing that we wanted to find 11 out is that last line. The " stated he 12 fixed the camera system on Friday, August 9th 13 when he arrived to work." 14 MR. I. : Mm-hmm. 15 MR. I. : So, that's the main thing 16 we just wanted to confirm. 17 MR. I. : I don't think I did that. 18 MR. : Yeah, because the last time, I 19 know our guys explored pretty in depth what 20 happened on August 9th. 21 MR. I. : Mm-hmm. 22 MR. : That was that Friday where it 23 sounds like -- 24 MR. I. : Yes. 25 MR. : -- you got the hard drives to EFTA00142275 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 26 1 go repair the thing. and just couldn't get in 2 because no one was there, or the phone monitor 3 was leaving. So, we were surprised to see that 4 there was a statement that you may have told 5 someone that you had repaired it on August 9th. 6 So, we just wanted to confirm whether or not 7 you had told someone, specifically Lieutenant 8 , that you had repaired that system on 9 August 9th. 10 MR. I. : I don't believe so, no. 11 Because I was still working on it so 12 MR. : Okay. 13 MR. I. : I couldn't do it. 14 MR. : Very good. Thank you, sir, 15 and that is all I have on that , thanks. 16 MR. I. : Thank you. Just as 17 normal, can you initial and date it? You're 18 not attesting to the accuracy, it's just a 19 document that we showed you. 20 MR. I. : Hmm. 21 MR. I. : Today's the 7th. 22 MR. : It's that you reviewed it. 23 MR. I : Oh, today is four 24 MR. I. : 4/7. 25 MR. I. : 4/7/22. EFTA00142276 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 27 1 MR. I. : We can move on to the next 2 topic. 3 MR. I. : Okay. 4 MR. I. : You mentioned, previously 5 and even now, that there was a camera upgrade 6 going on during that time. 7 MR. I. : Yes. 8 MR. I. : Do you recall if there was 9 a contract in place for these upgrades? 10 MR. I. : Yeah, it was supposed to 11 be NiceVision, but we just ended up doing 12 pretty much everything inhouse because it was 13 taking too long. 14 MR. I. : Okay. I'm going to show 15 you a contract. 16 MR. I. : Yes. 17 MR. I. : Do you recognize that 18 contract? 19 MR. I. : Yes. This looks like all 20 the stuff we put in for to upgrade the camera 21 system. 22 MR. I. : Just so -. Give me one 23 second. 24 MR. I. : Okay. 25 MR. I. : Just for the record, I'm EFTA00142277 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 going to read this out because it's -- 2 MR. I. : It's very (Indiscernible 3 *00:18:26). 4 MR. I. : This states the - the 5 contract states up top - it says, MCC New York. 6 And the contract number is GS-07F-, as in 7 Frank, 0322T, as in Tom. The award effective 8 date is 9/21/2018. And the order number is 9 15B-, as in boy, NYM-, as in Mary, 18F-, as in 10 Frank, T-, as in Tom, P-, as in Peter, 120150. 11 And the requisition number is 1064-18. 12 Now, that's the document you were 13 reviewing, and you believe that is the camera 14 upgrade? 15 MR. I. : The initial, probably the 16 initial one, yes. 17 MR. I. : When you say initial? 18 Were there changes? 19 MR. I. : Yeah, because they had a 20 contract. This was the original contract, as 21 far as upgrade goes, and then, like a year 22 later, there was another bid that we put in for 23 more upgrades. 24 MR. I. : Okay. 25 MR. I. : But this was the original. EFTA00142278 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 29 1 MR. I. : And this is dated when 2 again? 3 MR. I. : 2018. (Indiscernible 4 *00:19:31). Oh, 9/21/2018. 5 MR. I. : 2018. Were you involved 6 in this? 7 MR. I. : Yes. 8 MR. I. : Who was the point of 9 contact for this? 10 MR. I. : Steve Smith. He's, like, 11 the head of Nice. And then, but the main 12 person I would talk to was Justin Houston, but 13 Steve Smith is the brains behind it. I really 14 wouldn't talk to Steve because he was, like, 15 overseeing it. The main person I would talk to 16 was Justin Houston. 17 MR. I. : Justin Houston. Okay. 18 MR. I. : And I called him asking 19 him every question, because I never did fiber 20 before, or network camera systems, so. 21 MR. I. : All right, so Justin 22 Houston is the SigNet point of contact then? 23 MR. I. : Yes. 24 MR. I. : Okay. Who was the point 25 of contact for BOP then, at the MCC? Who was EFTA00142279 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 30 1 the point of contact? 2 MR. I. : That would be the Facility 3 Manager, whoever that was. Or the General 4 Foreman. I'm just -- 5 MR. I. : Who? 6 MR. I. : -- in 2018, so that was 7 (Phonetic Sp. *00:20:12) 8 probably, and then was the 9 General Foreman. 10 MR. I. had left 11 by August 2018, right? 12 MR. I. : Okay. 13 MR. I. : And then, 14 stepped in? 15 MR. I. : Yes. 16 MR. I. : But said that 17 he never really communicated in regards to 18 this. 19 MR. I. : Yes. 20 MR. I. : Because he said that he 21 doesn't recall the materials arriving -- 22 MR. I. : Mm-hmm. 23 MR. I. : -- or any of that stuff. 24 MR. I. : No, he wasn't there when I 25 don't think any of this arrived. EFTA00142280 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 31 1 MR. I. : And he never spoke with 2 MR. I. : Anybody. 3 MR. I. : SigNet. 4 MR. I. : SigNet, yeah. 5 MR. I. : So, who spoke with SigNet 6 in regards to the materials and all that? 7 MR. I. : It was just kind of like a 8 thing -. I would just call this, every once in 9 a while, hey, did the stuff come in, or what's 10 going on? But there was really -. 11 MR. I. : So, you communicated with 12 SigNet? 13 MR. I. : Yeah. SigNet, yes. 14 MR. I. : Okay. Was there anybody 15 else that communicated with SigNet? 16 MR. I. : No, not until go- 17 there. 18 MR. I. : And after that it was 19 20 MR. I. : Yes. 21 MR. I. : Or was it both of you guys 22 together? 23 MR. I. : It was pretty much 24 He's in charge, you know. 25 MR. I. : Okay. When did get EFTA00142281 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 there? 2 MR. I. : I don't know. Honestly, I 3 don't. It's around this time, like, August or 4 July of 2019. 5 MR. I. : Okay. Can you flip to 6 page four of that? 7 MR. I. : Yes. 8 MR. I. : And you mentioned it 9 before, right? What was the name of the 10 recording system that was ordered for the MCC? 11 The Nice -- 12 MR. I. : Nice or -. 13 MR. I. : -- the Nice, NiceVision? 14 MR. I. : Yeah, NiceVision. Yes. 15 MR. I. : And that's the type of 16 system that was ordered, right? 17 MR. I. : Yes. 18 MR. I. : Okay. Do you recall - and 19 this was placed in September of 2018. 20 MR. I. : Yes. 21 MR. I. : Do you recall when all the 22 NiceVision, all that stuff in that order was 23 delivered to the MCC? 24 MR. I. : It was coming in piece-by- 25 piece. EFTA00142282 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. I. : Piece-by-piece. 2 MR. I. : Yeah. 3 MR. I. : It wasn't delivered 4 together? 5 MR. I. : It might have been, but 6 the warehouse was, like, a mess. So, whenever 7 they told me I had packages, I would go and get 8 it. 9 MR. I. : Okay. So, what do you 10 recall, what came in first? 11 MR. I. : As far as what came in, 12 mainly the recorders and the new rack, and 13 probably the UPS. 14 MR. I. : Recorders, and what else? 15 MR. I. : The UPS and the rack that 16 the recorders would go in. 17 MR. I. : All right. So, the 18 terminology goes over my head. 19 MR. I. : Okay, so just the metal 20 hardware that the UPS would go in, and the 21 recorders. 22 MR. I. : So, based on, if you could 23 look at that and tell us what you're thinking, 24 and off of the page number four. 25 MR. I. : So, Nice. So, it would be EFTA00142283 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 34 1 the hard drives would come in. That's the line 2 item two would come in. The decoders would 3 come in. So, that's line item five. AMS would 4 come in, line item six. Line item seven would 5 come in. Oh not - yeah. Line item seven would 6 come in. Cameras never came in. Line item ten 7 would come in. And the wall mount never came 8 in, and a media cabinet. So, that line item 9 14, yeah. 10 MR. I. : So, they call came in 11 around when do you think? 12 MR. I. : I'm not too sure. 13 MR. I. : You think soon after the 14 order was placed, or -? 15 MR. I. : It was a little while 16 because there was stuff on backorder, so it 17 wasn't, like, right away. 18 MR. I. : So, was it in 2018, '19? 19 MR. I. : Probably in the early part 20 of 2019. 21 MR. I. : Early part of 2019? 22 MR. I. : Yeah. 23 MR. I. : All right. I'm going to 24 show you an email. This email - I'm going to 25 go back - it looks like it's an email from you EFTA00142284 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 dated October 7th, that's 2 That's . That's you? 3 : Yes. 4 : It's dated October 7, 5 2019. 6 MR. I. ■ October 7. 7 MR. I. ■ And this is to 8 , that's 9 MR. I. ■ Mm-hmm. 10 MR. I. ■ John Hodge and Justin 11 Houston -- 12 MR. Hmm. 13 MR. : -- at SigNetinc.com. 14 MR. : Hmm. 15 MR. : And you were asking, "Just 16 following up on the order for the outside PTC 17 cameras expected date of delivery." 18 Mm-hmm. 19 : And looked like Justin 20 Houston responded back on Monday, October 7th, 21 2019, right? And he says, , everything 22 was delivered. Most of it on 11/23/2018. The 23 tracking numbers are below." So, it looks like 24 this is in 2019. 25 MR. I. : Yeah. EFTA00142285 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 36 1 MR. I. : Like, he responded back 2 with tracking numbers for 2018. 3 MR. I. : 2018. Okay. 4 MR. I. : Does that help recollect 5 your memory at all about when those -? 6 MR. I. : I don't remember when all 7 this stuff -. It was a lot of stuff, and I was 8 trying to get space for it, so I'm not -. If 9 that's when they said it came in, that's 10 probably when it came in. 11 MR. : Does that email look 12 familiar? 13 MR. I. : Yes. This email looks 14 familiar. 15 MR. I. : So, that is a 16 communication between you and Justin, and it 17 looks like 18 MR. I. : Yes. 19 MR. I. : -- and Hodge? 20 MR. I. : Yeah, later on because, 21 when was this? Yes. 22 MR. I. : Who's Hodge? 23 MR. I. : He's the new contact. He 24 came in after the Epstein thing. 25 MR. I. : Okay. And what's the EFTA00142286 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 communication about the PTC cameras? 2 MR. I. : Oh, those are outside 3 cameras. 4 MR. I. : Okay. 5 MR. I. : Those didn't really have 6 nothing to do with the recorders or anything. 7 Those are, like, secondary. They had nothing 8 to do with the recording. Again, the recorders 9 and stuff. 10 MR. I. : But you think - when he 11 says that's in 2018 - you think those are the 12 NiceVision recorders and the decoders and all 13 that mentioned over here? 14 MR. I. : Yes. 15 MR. I. : You think those were 16 delivered - based on Houston's email - it was 17 delivered in the -. 18 MR. I. : In the end of November, 19 during the holidays, so I probably didn't get 20 it until maybe January, the first week of 21 January. 22 MR. I. : Okay. Where do you think 23 these items were stored? Once they got 24 delivered? 25 MR. I. : They were - and I mean EFTA00142287 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 38 1 some of it got misplaced because nobody knew 2 what it was, so it went to Building Four, the 3 warehouse. 4 MR. I. : Where's that? 5 MR. I. : That's in Brooklyn. It's 6 right next to Steiner Studios. 7 MR. I. : This is the Brooklyn Navy 8 Yard? 9 MR. I. : Yeah, Brooklyn Navy Yard, 10 yes. 11 MR. I. : What about the other 12 items? You said some went over. 13 MR. I. : I think there was a time, 14 Like, maybe this was the other order that the 15 decoders got sent over there. Something got 16 sent over there, it was sent, and nobody knew 17 what it was, and so they just sent it to 18 Building Four. 19 MR. I. : Okay. And who received 20 these orders, do you know? 21 MR. I. : The warehouse. 22 MR. I. : The warehouse? 23 MR. I. : Yes. 24 MR. I. : It was shipped to the MCC? 25 MR. I. : Yes. EFTA00142288 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 39 1 MR. I. : Do you know who signed off 2 on these? 3 MR. I. : No. 4 MR. I. : Okay. But someone 5 received them and somehow, it ended up in 6 Building Four? 7 MR. I. : Yes. 8 MR. I. : Okay. And what about 9 you said that's some of them - what about the 10 other items? Was there anything housed at the 11 MCC? 12 MR. I. : Yeah. I had the 13 recorders, and I had the rack. I had it stored 14 downstairs or in another room. I remember, 15 because it was important, so I made sure when I 16 came in, I put it in MCC. 17 MR. I. : Where? 18 MR. I. : So, we didn't have to go 19 look for it. It might have been in the 30 20 Percent Room or in my Video Room, but I think 21 it was in the 30 Percent Room. 22 MR. I. : What's the 30 Percent 23 Room? 24 MR. I. : It's, right before you go 25 to the loading dock, there's like a Ready Room EFTA00142289 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 40 1 that we get stuff in, and there was part of the 2 Lock Shop. So, if I had storage, or didn't 3 have space for it, I would ask the Lock Shop, 4 hey, can I put this in your room because I 5 don't have space. 6 MR. I. : And it's locked up, it's 7 secured? 8 MR. I. : Yes, secured. Yeah. 9 They're the only ones with a key. Nobody else 10 could get in there. 11 MR. I. : So, we mentioned 12 everything that's on there, pretty much all the 13 NiceVision equipment, except for the cameras. 14 MR. I. : Hmm. 15 MR. I. : What happened to the 16 cameras? 17 MR. I. : That's what happened. 18 think the cameras went to Building Four. I was 19 looking for it, and that's what ended up at 20 Building Four and maybe some decoders. 21 MR. : So, you think all, but 22 that's - you mentioned right now that all the 23 NiceVision equipment ended up there. 24 MR. I. : Hmm. 25 MR. I. : So, you think the cameras EFTA00142290 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 also got shipped? 2 MR. I. : Yes. Well, they might 3 have got shipped, but nobody told me. Whenever 4 they came in, they came in. I'm not too sure. 5 MR. I. : You're not sure what 6 happened to the cameras? 7 MR. I. : Yeah. 8 MR. I. : Do you believe the cameras 9 got shipped or no? 10 MR. I. : Yeah, they got shipped, 11 but they ended up going to Building Four. 12 Whenever they came in because I remember 13 looking for them and that was one of the 14 things, I had to figure out what happened to 15 the actual - because we were going to network 16 cameras - so I had to figure out where they 17 were at. And they weren't at the rear gate. 18 MR. I. : Okay. When do you recall 19 looking for them? 20 MR. I. : I don't really remember. 21 This is probably around the same time I 22 probably sent this email. I was trying to 23 figure out where everything was at. 24 MR. I. : The cameras. So, do you 25 think the cameras went to Building Eight -- EFTA00142291 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. I. : Hmm. 2 MR. I. : -- around this time or 3 back in November 2018? So, that's two 4 different timings we're talking about. 5 MR. I. : Yeah, two different 6 timing, yeah. 7 MR. I. : So, when do you think the 8 cameras got shipped and sent to -? 9 MR. I. : I think the cameras came 10 later. 11 MR. I. : Okay. 12 MR. I. : The recorders and 13 everything came right away. 14 MR. I. : Okay. 15 MR. I. : Yeah. 16 MR. I. : So, when do you think the 17 cameras came? 18 MR. I. : Probably after all of 19 this, so maybe in November. 20 MR. I. : Okay. 21 MR. I. : No, not November. So, it 22 probably came around November 19th, that's when 23 everything. Yeah. 24 MR. I. : So, November 2019, after 25 Epstein? EFTA00142292 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 43 1 MR. I. : Yes, after Epstein. 2 MR. I. : Do you know why there was 3 such a big delay and why 4 MR. I. : Because, like, when you 5 order cameras, if you're going to order, like, 6 300 cameras there's usually a backlog of six 7 months or eight months. It's not going to be 8 something you're going to get right away from a 9 vendor. 10 MR. I. : Was there any other reason 11 why the cameras were not shipped? 12 MR. I. : Oh, and there may be 13 signature or something. Because I wasn't in 14 charge, so I couldn't really sign for anything. 15 That was a part of the problem. So, when stuff 16 was getting ordered. 17 MR. I. : Was there ever 18 communication between MCC, were you able to 19 recall any communication between MCC or 20 yourself and SigNet, asking SigNet not to ship 21 the cameras? 22 MR. I. : No. I would never tell 23 them not to ship the cameras. No. 24 MR. I. : So, we're going to show 25 you an email. This email is from you dated EFTA00142293 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 September 5th, 2019, at 8:52 a.m. to 2 , Justin 3 Houston, and Steve Smith. 4 MR. I. : Mm-hmm. 5 MR. I. : Subject is "MCC New York 6 70E9F." 7 MR. I. : Mm-hmm. 8 MR. I. : And that's the initial 9 email and it looks like there's a response back 10 from Justin Houston. The initial email from 11 you states, "Good morning. There's a 12 discrepancy with 135 dome cameras." 13 MR. I. : Mm-hmm. 14 MR. I. : "The proposal part number 15 was Wycon IQ M62WRB9. 16 MR. I. : Mm-hmm. 17 MR. I. : I received 135 of Wycon 18 cameras part number," and it states a part 19 number. "What is the best way to fix this 20 problem? The cameras I received are not part 21 of the approved hardware list for the BOP." 22 MR. I. : Hmm. 23 MR. I. : Justin Houston responds on AI 24 September 5th, at 8:58 a.m., , this 25 issue is the model number changed because you EFTA00142294 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 had us wait to order the cameras." 2 MR. I. : Hmm. 3 MR. I. : "The cameras you received 4 are part of the replacement model." 5 MR. I. : Hmm. 6 MR. I. : "My recommendation, with 7 the rush to get all this installed, would be to 8 open a magic ticket and request it be added to 9 the approved list. 10 MR. I. : Hmm. 11 MR. I. : The biggest issue we have 12 right now is that 90 percent of the cameras on 13 the approved list are EOL." Take a look at 14 this and let me know if you recognize that 15 email. 16 MR. I. : Yes, I remember this 17 email, yes. 18 MR. I. : Okay. 19 MR. I. : But I'm not in charge of 20 saying you can't send cameras, so. 21 MR. I. : But that says you - the 22 statement up top from Justin is - it clearly 23 states that you told him to hold off on 24 ordering and sending the cameras. 25 MR. I. : Hold on. No, we're trying EFTA00142295 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 46 1 to figure -. Not hold off, but we have to make 2 sure that - anything we install on the BOP 3 network - we have to make sure that it's 4 approved on the list as far as for 5 (Indiscernible *00:31:29) and everything else. 6 We can't just order anything and get it 7 installed. 8 So, if the original part number was for 9 these cameras, they would have to ship these 10 cameras. And if the part number changed before 11 they send it to us, they have to notify if the 12 part number changed, then we have to get it 13 approved through Computer Services before we 14 install them. We can't just install anything 15 on the network. 16 MR. I. : Okay. Just to give you an 17 understanding. We spoke with Justin Houston 18 MR. I. : Mm-hmm. 19 MR. I. : -- and one of the things 20 that Justin Houston told us is they send you 21 all that stuff, and in his communication with 22 you, you advised him not to ship the cameras 23 MR. I. : Cameras. 24 MR. I. : -- because there's no 25 where to house the cameras. EFTA00142296 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 47 1 MR. I. : Yeah, that was the biggest 2 issue, yes. 3 MR. I. : So, there's no way to 4 house the cameras, so you told him not to ship 5 the cameras, hold off on shipping the cameras 6 until you get the okay for shipping the 7 cameras, until there's space to do it. 8 MR. I. : Mm-hmm. 9 MR. I. : Until you guys have space 10 to house the cameras. 11 MR. I. : Mm-hmm. 12 MR. I. : Because 300 cameras. I 13 think the order states there's about 300 14 cameras -- 15 MR. I. : Mm-hmm. 16 MR. I. : -- right? 17 MR. I. : Yes. 18 MR. I. That's a lot of cameras. 19 MR. I. : Yeah. 20 MR. I. : I'm guessing you need a 21 lot of space. 22 MR. I. : Yes. 23 MR. I. : So.. this - I mean, I'm 24 not saying there's anything wrong with it, 25 like, we get it. EFTA00142297 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 2 MR. : Right, hey, there's 3 nowhere to house it. 4 MR. : Mm-hmm. 5 MR. : If that is an issue, you 6 can tell us. Hey, we had nowhere to house it. 7 MR. : Yes. 8 MR. : But if that's a 9 communication between both you guys, just be up 10 front and say, hey, no, I told him to hold off 11 on it. 12 MR. : No. The hold off was, 13 this - the cameras have to be approved on a 14 (Indiscernible *00:32:38) list. And the 15 problem was the cameras that I had requested, 16 BOP went and changed, whoever in Central Office 17 - the original proposal was for access cameras 18 and the problem was these cameras were not 19 going to work on the NiceVision. When you 20 added them to the software app. I make sure 21 every time we got something that it's going to 22 work, because I know when you order a big bulk 23 like that, you can't just send it back. You 24 can't say, hey, I don't have the right stuff, 25 because it's not going to work. And that's EFTA00142298 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 49 1 part of the problem now. Because these Wycon 2 cameras, 300 of them, I don't know if they're 3 at MCC now, but when I was leaving MCC, they 4 were never installed because the next year the 5 Pogo cameras got installed because the Wycon 6 cameras never really worked with the 7 NiceVision. That's why I was telling everybody 8 to hold off. Because I knew it was going to be 9 a problem with the network. 10 MR. I. : Okay. So that's what 11 clarifies. 12 MR. I. : Yes. 13 MR. I. : So, when this order was 14 placed, and this bulk order was placed, you're 15 saying there was an issue with the cameras? 16 MR. I. : Yes, yes. Because they 17 have to have a certain plug-in to work on the 18 system, and we have to make sure, hey these are 19 the cameras we're going to order, and these are 20 the ones that are going to get installed. BOP, 21 somebody changed the part number and I'm, like, 22 hold off on it, we've got to make sure these 23 cameras are on our approved list, because they 24 have to sign off on it. If it's not on the 25 approved list, you can't have these cameras in EFTA00142299 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 the institution. 2 MR. I. : Okay. 3 MR. I. : Because it's just a big 4 order. 5 MR. I. : So, that's why -- 6 MR. I. (Indiscernible *00:33:47). 7 MR. I. : -- so, that's why you told 8 him to hold off on 9 MR. I. : Yes -- 10 MR. I. : -- shipping it? 11 MR. I. : -- shipping it, yes. 12 MR. I. : So, you had to verify the 13 actual -- 14 MR. I. : Mm-hmm. 15 MR. I. : -- part number? 16 MR. I. : Yes. But this, I know 17 you're talking about this, but this really has 18 nothing to do with -. 19 MR. I. : Okay. 20 MR. I. : Yeah. 21 MR. I. : So, that's back in - when 22 did you tell them, when did you initially 23 figure out the fact there was an issue with the 24 parts that were ordered? 25 MR. I. : Right away. EFTA00142300 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. I. : Right away, okay. 2 MR. I. : Yes. 3 MR. I. : Who did you contact in 4 regards to -? 5 MR. I. : I contacted Justin Houston 6 and I told about the problem, as far as 7 the cameras. 8 MR. I. : But wasn't there 9 yet. This is going back to November 10 MR. I. : Oh. 11 MR. I. : -- November, it was 12 shipped; the order was placed in September -- 13 MR. I. : September. 14 MR. I. of 2018. 15 MR. I. : Yeah. 16 MR. I. Let's just say October. 17 MR. I. : Yes. 18 MR. I. : The estimate was October. 19 MR. I. : Mm-hmm. 20 MR. I. : Did you contact anybody at 21 BOP and let them know, hey, listen, there's a 22 problem with the order? 23 MR. I. : I spoke to whoever was in 24 charge at that time. So, Maybe or - oh, 25 I spoke to Computer Service Because he EFTA00142301 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 52 1 would have to send a trouble ticket to get it 2 approved; these cameras approved on the list. 3 MR. I. : So, you think Computer 4 Services -- 5 MR. I. : Mm-hmm. 6 MR. I. 7 MR. I. : Mm-hmm. 8 MR. I. : And you think you spoke to 9 him and told him -? 10 MR. I. : Because you have to send 11 in a trouble ticket, like this says, to make 12 sure it's approved on the list before it gets 13 ordered. 14 MR. I. : So, he would have to 15 create a trouble ticket -. 16 MR. I. : Ticket to get this 17 approved, yes. 18 MR. I. : And do you remember 19 creating a ticket at all? 20 MR. I. : I'm pretty sure, if it 21 says I spoke to , then he yeah -. Yeah 22 , yeah, he was aware of it. The Wycon 23 cameras. Because the part number changed. 24 MR. I. : But it basically sounds 25 like, based on what he said, the part number EFTA00142302 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 changed because it was 2 MR. I. : Everything waited too 3 long. Because I can't -- 4 MR. I. (Indiscernible 5 *00:35:22) habit. 6 MR. : -- yes, and I can't sign 7 off on it. That's why was on the email 8 because he's the one that has to sign off on 9 cameras. I can't sign off on anything. I can 10 do my recommendations, but I can't sign off and 11 get anything shipped to the institution. 12 MR. I. : But that's different from 13 what you said about the part number not 14 matching up to what you wanted 15 MR. I. : Mm-hmm. 16 MR. I. : -- to him stating that, 17 hey, no -- 18 MR. I. : You waited too long, yes. 19 MR. I. : -- you waited too long. 20 MR. I. : Yes. 21 MR. I. : That's two different 22 things. 23 MR. I. : That's two different 24 things, yes. 25 MR. I. : So, what - based on this, EFTA00142303 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 54 1 like, according to the contract - what was the 2 cameras that you guys ordered? 3 MR. I. : 350, (Indiscernible 4 *00:35:49) licenses. 5 MR. I. : No, I think it was split 6 up. I think it was 75 and -. 7 MR. I. : Oh. (Indiscernible 8 *00:35:57). Oh, 10. Yes, this part number 9 right here. 10 MR. I. : And you -. What -? Car. 11 you read it out so we can -. 12 MR. I. : 1QM62WR-B9. One Quebec- 13 Mike-6-2-Whisky-Romero - Bravo-9. 14 MR. I. : And there's another one, 15 too, right? Because that's only one set of 16 cameras. 17 MR. I. : That's the pointer 18 cameras. That really didn't have anything to 19 do with it. These are the dome cameras. 20 MR. I. : So, there was nothing 21 wrong with the dome cameras? 22 MR. I. : They never really worked 23 even when they changed the part number, this 24 never worked on the system. We never even 25 installed these cameras. EFTA00142304 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 55 1 MR. I. : So, the dome cameras never 2 got installed? 3 MR. I. : We had them on hand when 4 they came in eventually, but we have to order 5 the next year, those are the cameras we 6 installed. I installed a few of these cameras 7 and I had issues, so we had to go to Pelco from 8 the order from the next year. 9 MR. I. : So, no matter what, you 10 had issues, but do you recall telling Justin - 11 or you said, right now, that you told Justin to 12 hold off because there was issues with the 13 cameras. 14 MR. I. (Indiscernible *00:36:55). 15 MR. I. : You recognized an issue 16 right off the back. 17 MR. I. : And it has to get approved 18 on the (Indiscernible *00:36:57) list. It was 19 two different issues, but -. 20 MR. I. : Okay. So initially, you 21 recognized there was an issue and you told 22 23 MR. I. : Mm-hmm. 24 MR. I. at Computer 25 Services. EFTA00142305 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 56 1 MR. I. : Through Computer Services. 2 MR. I. : And you guys created a 3 ticket, -- 4 MR. I. : Ticket. 5 MR. I. : -- and back in October, 6 November 2018? '18, right, because -. 7 MR. I. : This is all '19. 8 MR. I. : But that's '19. 9 MR. I. : Yeah. 10 MR. I. : But I'm talking back then. 11 MR. I. : Oh, back here? 12 MR. I. : Back here, when the 13 initial order -. 14 MR. I. : Yes, I told him that there 15 was going to be an issue. But I can't really - 16 . I mean I can tell them, hey, hold off, but 17 they're going to ship whatever they're going to 18 ship. 19 MR. I. : Oh, so, I should clarify. 20 So, maybe that's where the confusing part is. 21 Justin said over here. 22 MR. I. : Mm-hmm. 23 MR. I. : You're talking about 2018. 24 MR. I. : Yes. 25 MR. I. : His statement to us was, EFTA00142306 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 when those recorders in 2018 were shipped -- 2 MR. I. : Yep. 3 MR. I. : -- he didn't ship out the 4 cameras -- 5 MR. I. : The cameras. 6 MR. I. : -- in 2018 because based 7 on his conversation with you in 2018. 8 MR. I. : Yes. The part number was 9 wrong. Yes. 10 MR. I. : No, no. That's not what 11 he said. 12 MR. I. : Oh. 13 MR. I. : He said that you stated 14 that there was no where to house 15 MR. I. : House them, yes. 16 MR. I. : -- the cameras -- 17 MR. I. : Yes. 18 MR. I. in 2018, so you asked 19 him to hold off on shipping. 20 MR. I. : Yeah, we had to figure out 21 some stuff logistically. There was -- 22 MR. I. : But just to -. 23 MR. I. : -- there was a lot of 24 stuff going on. 25 MR. I. : And then, he didn't EFTA00142307 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 58 1 receive any communication from you up until 2 later on -- 3 MR. I. : 2019. 4 MR. I. : -- in 2019. 5 MR. I. : Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 6 MR. I. : And we have - let me show 7 you another email. This is dated - this is 8 another email, but this is not between you and 9 him. This looks like Justin Houston -- 10 MR. I. : Hmm. 11 MR. I. : -- to Fred Pridemore at 12 SigNet, Inc. 13 MR. I. : Mm-hmm. 14 MR. I. : Fred Pridemore. And this 15 is dated August 19, 2019. 16 MR. I. : Okay. 17 MR. I. : Right. It says, "Fred, 18 finally got the all-clear from the site to 19 order the cameras -" 20 MR. I. : Yes. 21 MR. I. : "-- on this job." 22 MR. I. : Yes. 23 MR. I. : "Lines ten to 14 on the 24 revest Line 12 needs to be changed to the part 25 number at -- EFTA00142308 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 59 1 MR. I. : Mm-hmm. 2 MR. I. : -- 334 each." That means 3 - and he, Justin Houston, pointed us to this 4 saying that's when he got the final all-clear. 5 MR. I. : Final, okay, yes. 6 MR. I. : From MCC to finally order 7 the parts. 8 MR. I. : Yeah, because there was, 9 there had to be a signature and I couldn't sign 10 for it. That was another problem, too, because 11 there was nobody in charge. No bills am I 12 assigned for, to get this stuff - hey, these 13 cameras got to get here, somebody's got to sign 14 for it. Because during this time, when this 15 happened, there was really nobody in charge. 16 think, I don't know if was still there 17 or not there, but to get the cameras shipped, 18 there had to be a signature, and I couldn't 19 sign for anything. 20 MR. I. : So, there was no - a 21 signature wasn't needed for the recorders? 22 Because the recorders are an expensive part. 23 MR. I. : The recorders. Yeah, it's 24 an expensive part, but the cameras, I couldn't 25 sign off on. Because remember, I was going EFTA00142309 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 60 1 back and forth about the cameras, hey, I don't 2 think these cameras are going to work. They 3 already shipped that stuff for whatever reason. 4 When it came to the cameras and I was, like, I 5 don't think this is going to work, and they 6 actually needed another signature, and I 7 couldn't sign for it. I couldn't say, hey, 8 change the part number. 9 MR. I. : Wait a minute, say that 10 again? Explain that slowly. 11 MR. I. : Okay. So, I knew 12 initially that the cameras weren't going to 13 work on the system. Because I had spoke with 14 Justin. And then, has to sign off on it. 15 And then I spoke to -- 16 MR. I. : This is 2018 or '19? 17 MR. I. : '19. 18 MR. I. : No, no. Let's go 19 MR. I. : Oh. 20 MR. I. : Forget about '19. 21 MR. I. '19. 22 MR. I. : Let's speak about 23 MR. I. '18. 24 MR. I. : '18 only. 25 MR. I. : Only '18. Yes. I just EFTA00142310 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 61 1 knew it was a problem, so I probably told them, 2 hey, hold off on shipping the actual cameras. 3 MR. I. : Okay. So -. 4 MR. I. : Until we figure out, like, 5 where we're going to house it, and what's going 6 to go on with the cameras. 7 MR. I. : Okay. So that's, you held 8 off. And the next communication, the next time 9 you told him -- 10 MR. I. : Ship it. 11 MR. I. : -- ship the cameras would 12 be after -- 13 MR. I. : Yes. 14 MR. I. : -- Jeffrey Epstein's 15 death? 16 MR. I. : Yes. 17 MR. I. : Okay. That's what we 18 needed. 19 MR. I. : Oh, sorry. 20 MR. I. : That's it. Everything 21 else that happened afterwards makes no 22 difference, but 23 MR. I. : Difference. Yh. 24 MR. I. : All right, so that was 25 everyone held off and it only because EFTA00142311 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 62 1 logistically there was no way to house them? 2 MR. I. : There was no way -- 3 MR. I. : Okay. 4 MR. I. : -- to make sure they were 5 secure. 6 MR. I. : Okay. 7 MR. I. : Because you can see, 8 that's a lot of money. You can't just - and 9 everything disappears there. 10 MR. I. : And 350 cameras is a lot 11 of cameras to house. 12 MR. I. : Yes. 13 MR. I. : Understood. That's fine. 14 MR. I. : Yeah. 15 MR. : Do you mind if I -- 16 MR. I. : Go ahead, sorry. 17 MR. : -- just clarify. In '18, 18 and just want to clean this up. In 2018, it 19 was a matter of the storage -- 20 MR. I. : The storage. 21 MR. : -- was the issue. 22 MR. I. : Yeah. Yeah. 23 MR. : And not -. 24 MR. I. : Not getting the cameras, 25 no. Well, it was -. EFTA00142312 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : It was not the model. 2 MR. I. : The model was an issue, 3 and then storage. Because when I spoke to 4 Justin about this, the initial, if this is the 5 -. This is not what we sent up to BOP. The 6 initial, everything that I sent up to BOP, 7 everything was supposed to be access cameras. 8 They went up to the Central Office, they get 9 another approval. They change the part number. 10 When I saw the part number, I'm, like ,wait, 11 hold a minute -- 12 MR. : Okay. 13 MR. I. : -- this is wrong. 14 MR. : Okay. 15 MR. I. : Yeah. And we don't have 16 space for it anyway -- 17 MR. : Okay. 18 MR. I. : -- so, can you hold off 19 and -- 20 MR. : Okay. And that's after this 21 initial -- 22 MR. I. : Yes. 23 MR. : Okay. 24 MR. I. : Yes. 25 MR. : Okay. EFTA00142313 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 64 1 MR. I. : But none of that, like, 2 the CS, none of that was addressed 3 up until -- 4 MR. I. : Until this. 5 MR. : -- '19. 6 MR. I. : Yes. 7 MR. I. : The end of '19? 8 MR. I. : Yes, when the actual, they 9 were going to get installed. We had to make 10 sure that everything was going to work on the 11 network. 12 MR. I. : Sorry. ASAC 13 MR. : Yeah, I'll ask one question 14 now, and then I'll let you ask a couple of 15 more, looking at your question list. 16 Once you had the space and they had the 17 right cameras in October 2018, were you guys at 18 the institution in a position to install those 19 right away, anyway? 20 MR. I. : No. No. 21 MR. : Okay. All right. 22 MR. I. : It took - even after that 23 happened - it took TDY help about a year and a 24 half pulling fiber through the whole building, 25 upgrading the infrastructure before we could EFTA00142314 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 even install cameras. And then -- 2 MR. : Okay. 3 MR. I. : -- Then to install the 4 cameras, that was another - yeah. 5 MR. : Yeah. I just wanted to 6 confirm that, and I think will ask you a 7 couple more questions now about what you were 8 getting into. 9 MR. I. : Okay. 10 MR. : Thanks. 11 MR. I. : At that point, now let's 12 talk about August 10, 2019. Like, this is the 13 day that 14 MR. I. : Yeah. Yeah. 15 MR. I. : -- Mr. Epstein died. How 16 much of that conduit and wiring was actually 17 completed? 18 MR. I. : I think we started one 19 housing unit, and then I started -. 20 MR. I. : That's all that was 21 completed at that point? 22 MR. I. : Well, as far as the 23 infrastructure, yes. Because I think out of 24 the TDY - I don't know when - I know there was 25 TDY help when first came. It was EFTA00142315 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 66 1 and . They came from Texas. And we 2 pretty much fired up one unit to make sure, 3 hey, this is how we're going to - because we 4 have to pipe all that in for the cameras. You 5 have to put a conduit in. You can't have the 6 wires exposed, into each camera. And where are 7 you going to actually set the cameras up. So, 8 that took, like about a month for us to do that 9 The first unit took like a month. 10 MR. I. : And how many housing units 11 are at the MCC? 12 MR. I. : So, there's the female 13 unit, unit on the second floor. The WITSEC 14 Unit on three. 5 North, 5 South. 7 North, 7 15 South. 9 North, SHU, 10 South, 11 South, 11 16 North. So, 11 housing units. 17 MR. I. : And as of August, only one 18 housing unit was done at that point? 19 MR. I. : I don't really -. 20 Honestly, I don't remember. There's a lot 21 going on. 22 MR. I. : I'm talking an idea at 23 that point. 24 MR. I. : Yeah. I think during that 25 time, if and came TDY, that's when EFTA00142316 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 67 1 maybe one housing unit was totally piped in and 2 maybe ready to go, but even then, it wasn't 3 ready to go because you still needed a fiber 4 upgrade. We could have put it on single mode, 5 but it would have had issues. It wasn't -. 6 And then, we still didn't even have CAT-5. 7 There was a lost of stuff we just didn't have 8 to finish the upgrade. 9 MR. I. : Okay. So, after Mr. 10 Epstein's death, did they bring in more 11 employees? 12 MR. I. : Yes, they brought a lot of 13 TDY help, and that's when a lot of stuff 14 happened. 15 MR. I. : And once they brought in 16 all the employees, how long did it take to 17 actually put the - forget about the cameras - 18 how long did it take to put the wiring in? 19 MR. I. : After Epstein's death - so 20 they were closing down the prison in August of, 21 well, we found out August-September. I was 22 still working, like, two or three times a week 23 on overtime installing conduit, and running 24 wires, and installing cameras. And even with 25 all that said, there was still - I remember I EFTA00142317 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 went through all 11 housing units - I still 2 didn't finish 11 South because that's open 3 dorm. Unit Two never got finished and the 4 sallyports never got finished. And some 5 outside cameras. So, even after that happened, 6 three years, it still was a long undertaking. 7 MR. I. : So, even after three years 8 9 MR. I. : Yes. 10 MR. I. : -- it's still not 11 completed? 12 MR. I. : It wasn't completed when 13 we left, and they shut down that jail. As far 14 as the IP cameras, that was not completed, no. 15 MR. I. : And that was just the wire 16 itself that never got completed? 17 MR. I. : No, no. Just hooking up 18 cameras and the wiring. We put in -. Pretty 19 much set up the infrastructure where each floor 20 you could go to a hub to install cameras 21 everywhere. 22 MR. I. : Yeah. 23 MR. I. : But as far as finishing 24 the actual units, some of that was not 25 complete, no. EFTA00142318 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 69 1 MR. I. : Okay. And do you recall 2 when the majority of the work was done? 3 MR. I. : I was, like, I was working 4 overtime all the time, so it was -. 5 MR. I. : Was it like a couple of 6 months? Three months, four months? 7 MR. I. : It was a couple of years. 8 I was still working on it -- 9 MR. I. : It was still ongoing? 10 MR. I. : -- yeah. It was still 11 ongoing. I was still working on it. It was 12 never really complete. Because COVID happened. 13 We had TDY help, and we had the gun thing, 14 where we had more people come in. So, there 15 was a lot of stuff that needed to -. 16 MR. I. : So, they were continuously 17 being people TDY to help with it? 18 MR. I. : Yes. 19 MR. I. : Okay. And did the people 20 actually continue doing work for the cameras, 21 or were they pulled out to do other things? 22 MR. I. : They were pulled out to do 23 other things too, when it came to UI. 24 MR. I. : What was SigNet's role in 25 the installation? EFTA00142319 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 70 1 MR. I. : They were supposed to do a 2 boatload of work, but we ended up doing a lot 3 of the work inhouse. 4 MR. I. : That's (Indiscernible 5 *00:45:54). 6 MR. I. : Yeah. Because -. 7 MR. I. : Because over here on line, 8 where is that line? Look SigNet labor says 9 243,000. 10 MR. I. : 43,000 yeah. 11 MR. I. : What was their job? 12 MR. I. : Their job. Okay, so the 13 main thing we were supposed to do was run pipe 14 everywhere and, like 15 MR. I. : You guys were? Like, the 16 MCC. 17 MR. I. right. MCC was 18 supposed to run the pipe everywhere, put the 19 box up, and they were just going to come in and 20 mount the cameras up and put it on the network, 21 but it was going to take too long, so we just 22 started doing everything in-house. We started 23 - well I started - just installing cameras, and 24 putting them up, and letting them start 25 recording. So, you have more view. Because EFTA00142320 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 one camera we had on the unit, that wasn't 2 going to solve everything. 3 So, we had one camera on the unit, and 4 after, like, all this started happening and 5 especially, a staff member got assaulted. 6 That's why I added another camera on the 7 network, one on top of the bubble, so you could 8 see like - it's a 270 - so, you can see like 9 this way. You can pretty much see the whole 10 unit. 11 So, that's the best I could do at the time 12 for all of the housing units that only had one 13 camera. And then, eventually we started going 14 unit by unit and just installing 12 to 13, 15 however many cameras on each unit. 16 MR. I. : Okay. And how long did 17 SigNet stay after Mr. Epstein's death? Did 18 they come and stay for a while -- 19 MR. I. : Oh, yeah, I wouldn't -- 20 MR. I. : -- to finish up 21 everything, or did they -? 22 MR. I. : No. After Mr. Epstein's 23 death, that's when they came and installed the 24 recorders. Because this was all on-hand, the 25 new recorders and the rack. But they had to EFTA00142321 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 72 1 get the okay for them to - well, and I called 2 Justin, too, about this. I was, like, hey 3 we're on the list, but we weren't on the list 4 to get upgraded. 5 MR. I. : Okay. 6 MR. I. : So, but then this 7 happened, so they came, like, the next day, and 8 I stayed there to 9 MR. I. : They stayed for a couple 10 weeks -? 11 MR. I. : Oh, just a couple days. 12 Just to get the new recorders in. 13 MR. I. : That's it? 14 MR. I. : Yeah, it was -. 15 MR. I. : They didn't help with the 16 cameras? 17 MR. I. : No. 18 MR. I. : So, you guys still 19 installed the cameras yourselves? 20 MR. I. : Yeah, we installed all the 21 cameras. 22 MR. I. : ASAC , anything else 23 on that? 24 MR. : Yeah, a couple of questions. 25 So, based on what you just said, I just want to EFTA00142322 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 73 1 make sure I'm clear. We talked about the fact 2 that if you had the new cameras in October of 3 2018, you would not have been able to install 4 them based on the lack of wiring. 5 MR. : Yes. 6 MR. : So, let me ask the same thing 7 about August 10th, the day of Epstein's death. 8 If you had received the cameras before that 9 day, would you have been able to install them 10 before that time? 11 MR. : No. 12 MR. : Okay. And, because it looks 13 like - yeah - the cameras I think finally came 14 in October 2019. 15 The second question is - let me get back 16 to my notes here - after Epstein's death, as 17 you just said, SigNet came in, they got the new 18 recorders up and running, and you were able to 19 have video coverage with the old cameras on the 20 old recorders, correct? 21 MR. I. : Yes. 22 MR. : So, it's not like the 23 institution was without -- 24 MR. : Cameras, no. 25 MR. : -- cameras, yeah, between -. EFTA00142323 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 74 1 MR. I. : The cameras were always 2 working. That's the misinterpretation of the 3 whole thing. 4 MR. : Okay. 5 MR. I. : The cameras were always 6 working. 7 MR. : All right. I just wanted to 8 make sure to get that on the record as well. 9 And the final question - I don't think, 10 you were going to ask this - is in 11 regard to the other contract, Anixter, I 12 believe is the company. 13 MR. I. : Yes. 14 MR. I. (Indiscernible *00:49:10) 15 MR. : (Indiscernible *00:49:11). 16 MR. I. : I had a question also. 17 I'll show him the email also. 18 MR. : Yeah. Perfect. Okay. Then 19 I'll let you -. 20 MR. I. : No, no. You can ask the 21 question. I'll give him the email, so, if you 22 want to refer to the email yourself 23 MR. I. : Mm-hmm. 24 MR. I. : I'll provide it to him. 25 MR. : Yeah, so basically ,my EFTA00142324 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 question was going to be in regard to that 2 contract, do you know approximately when the 3 materials from that contract came in? 4 MR. I. : This was 5 MR. : And again, it looked to be 6 primarily wiring, from my understanding of the 7 order. 8 MR. I. : The cable. 9 MR. : Yeah. 10 MR. I. : Is this fiber? I don't 11 No, that came a little bit later, because we 12 didn't have fiber anything. 13 MR. I. : Okay. You didn't have 14 fiber -? 15 MR. I. : Maybe we had fiber, but 16 then we had to do another order for fiber 17 because they wanted to change stuff, so. 18 MR. I. : And this, is it the new 19 order for -? I want to read this just for the 20 record. This says -. This is from 21 Who's 22 MR. I. : Oh, that's the contracting 23 officer at the time. He took spot. 24 He was, like, the cashier. 25 MR. I. : He's a — it says Financial EFTA00142325 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 Program Specialist? 2 MR. I. : Yes, yes. 3 MR. I. : Okay. And it was sent to 4 a bunch of people including 5 yourself, and it says, 6 subject is "Anxiter TP12240 and SigNet tech." 7 It says, "Good afternoon, Ms. . After 8 reviewing my cost report for the Central Office 9 samples, I went ahead and asked I. , our 10 Com Tech, on the status of these particular 11 POs, and he advised me that they haven't been 12 able to receive the fiber cable, and without 13 the cable, they can't proceed with the camera 14 systems." 15 MR. I. : Mm-hmm. 16 MR. I. : "He mentioned that the 17 company is requiring some sort of 18 documentation. He should be able to provide 19 you with the details." 20 MR. I. : Yeah, because I - like I 21 said - I couldn't sign for anything. So, 22 somebody else would have to sign it. I could 23 advise as much as I can, but I can't sign it. 24 MR. I. : So, you recall, that's not 25 the new order, that was the previous? EFTA00142326 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : Yeah, probably the 2 previous order. 3 MR. I. : And fiber was never used? 4 MR. I. : Yes, it was used, yes. 5 MR. I. : Later on? 6 MR. I. : Later on, yes. 7 MR. I. : But not for the initial -. 8 MR. I. : The initial thing was to 9 try to get - well, get the pipe in, and then do 10 a fiber. 11 MR. I. : Wasn't piping already 12 there? So, told us that you guys 13 had, like, the conduits laid in Building Four. 14 MR. I. : I didn't know anything 15 about that. 16 MR. I. : Or was that ordered? 17 MR. I. : That was maybe for 18 something else, or maybe it was ordered. 1 19 don't know. 20 MR. I. : Where did you guys get the 21 conduits to run? 22 MR. I. : Mainly, I got most of my 23 conduit from Sheridan. That was the vendor I 24 used. 25 MR. I. : So, you guys bought it? EFTA00142327 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. I. : Yeah, locally, yes. 2 MR. I. : Locally. And so, you 3 bought the conduits from them. What about the 4 wiring itself? 5 MR. I. : That was from Anxiter. 6 Because that's the CAT-6 I use. I got 7 everything from Anixter. 8 MR. I. : All right, so it was from 9 an outside vendor? 10 MR. I. : Yes, yes. 11 MR. I. : Okay, so there was actual 12 contracts for that. 13 MR. I. : Yes. For the fiber, yes. 14 The conduit, we just placed the order and just 15 bought conduit when we needed it, as much as we 16 needed to do a unit. 17 MR. I. : Okay. 18 MR. : And so, again, I think that 19 email was from April 2019, so it sounds like, 20 at least at that point, you guys had not 21 received the Anixter materials. Do you have 22 any idea when that finally showed up? 23 MR. I. : It was so much stuff 24 coming in, and like I said -- 25 MR. : Okay. EFTA00142328 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 79 1 MR. I. : -- we had very limited 2 space, so. 3 MR. : No, I understand. 4 MR. I. : Mm-hmm. 5 MR. HORNEE: I just wanted to see if you 6 had a recollection. Thanks. 7 MR. I. : I have -. 8 MR. : And that is all I have, 9 10 MR. : No problem. I have 11 another email here. It looks like it's a 12 communication between yourself and Justin 13 Houston on Friday, March 22nd, and -? 14 MR. : What year? 2000? 15 MR. : 2019. 16 MR. : Okay. Mm-hmm. 17 MR. I. : And it says, "Good morning. 18 Is it possible to overnight some cameras for 19 MCC New York project?" And you were asking 20 him, "I would like to mock-up a unit before we 21 bet started to see what we needed -- 22 MR. I. : Mm-hmm. 23 MR. I. : -- 20 dome IPs, five 180- 24 degree IP," five - I mean two PTC, dome IPs. 25 MR. I. : Yes. EFTA00142329 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. I. : Do you recognize this 2 email? 3 MR. I. : Yes. 4 MR. I. : And this is prior to them 5 shipping the cameras. This is just -. Do you 6 know why you asked them for these cameras? 7 MR. I. : That's probably when we 8 finished the piping on our unit. So, it was 9 probably in March when we finished the piping. 10 MR. I. : Which unit was that? 11 MR. I. : 11 North, maybe. 12 MR. I. : So, this is the first unit 13 you -? 14 MR. I. : Yeah, we did, yes. 15 MR. I. : Okay, so this is the first 16 unit you're trying to get done, so -. But this 17 was before the cameras, anything came in? 18 MR. I. : Yes. 19 MR. I. : So, you started doing one 20 unit? 21 MR. I. : Yes, we did one unit, as 22 far as the piping and see where you're going to 23 put everything. 24 MR. I. : So, this is basically, you 25 ordered these pieces just to see where EFTA00142330 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 81 1 everything would fit? 2 MR. I. : Yes, and how would it work 3 on our system. 4 MR. I. : Okay, no problem. I'm 5 going to jump onto the next set of questions. 6 Is that okay? 7 MR. : Yeah, yeah, it's good with me. 8 I've got everything on the previous subject 9 that I needed. Thank you. 10 MR. I. : Okay. Now regarding the 11 NiceVision System, can you confirm that only 12 the SIS staff and electronics technicians had 13 the ability to replay, save and export videos, 14 or could certain other staff, like captains, 15 lieutenants, anyone else review or save 16 recorded footage as well? 17 MR. I. : I think the captain has 18 authorization. Lieutenants? I'm not too sure 19 if they had authorization to pull video to -. 20 Because sometimes they'd have to send a packet 21 up, so I don't know if it was the SIS or the 22 lieutenants that saved video. Every 23 institution is kind of different when it comes 24 to who can pull the video. 25 MR. I. : Is there something called EFTA00142331 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 SuperVision? 2 MR. I. : SuperVision, yes. 3 MR. I. : So, you would have to have 4 a specific log-in for it? 5 MR. I. : No, Supervision - yes, you 6 would have to log for - well, no. But 7 SuperVision is just mainly for passwords and 8 stuff. It's not really for anything else. 9 MR. I. : Oh, okay. But to view it, 10 but don't you have to log in to see? 11 MR. I. : Yeah, that's the regular 12 NiceVision -- 13 MR. I. : Okay. 14 MR. I. : -- that's in control. You 15 just have to have access to Control. That's 16 the part of NiceVision. 17 MR. I. : And who had access to 18 that, just the captains and the Com Techs? 19 MR. I. : Just the Com Techs, yeah. 20 Maybe the lieutenants had it. I would have to 21 see the usernames. I'm pretty sure the 22 lieutenants should have had it. I'm not too 23 sure. 24 MR. I. : Okay. So, you're not 25 sure. You think maybe the captains, maybe the EFTA00142332 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 lieutenants? 2 MR. I : No. 3 MR. I. : Captains definitely? 4 MR. I. : The captain and SIS 5 definitely had the ability to pull video and 6 look at video. 7 MR. I. : And Com Techs. 8 MR. I. : And the Com Techs. The 9 lieutenant's office? Some of the lieutenants I 10 think had their own password to look at a 11 video, in case something happened. Just to 12 look at video. 13 MR. I. : Does that differentiate 14 (Indiscernible *00:55:03) between like an 15 operations lieutenant and activity lieutenant? 16 MR. I. : Activity, yes. Depending 17 on - because you got your GS-11 and GS-9 18 lieutenant. 19 MR. I. : So, there's a possibility 20 the operations lieutenant had access? 21 MR. I. : Access, yes. 22 MR. : Okay. For the standard 23 NiceVision users - example, anyone outside the 24 use as identified in, like, let's say for the 25 people like the captain, lieutenant, things EFTA00142333 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 84 1 like that - can you confirm that those users 2 were only able to view live video feeds? 3 MR. I. : Well, it's depending on 4 how you set up everybody's profile. Somebody's 5 profile you can - mainly SIS - they can pull 6 video under that profile. If you were a 7 lieutenant, you can probably just view live 8 viewing. Because there's - Nice comes and 9 pretty much sets that all up before you even 10 get -. 11 MR. I. : They can see live video? 12 MR. I. : Yeah. 13 MR. I. : Okay. Who had the ability 14 to go back? 15 MR. I. : I think maybe the 16 lieutenants, too, because if there's a fight or 17 something, and they needed to look back at 18 video, and if SIS wasn't there, they probably 19 would need access to look back. 20 MR. I. : The captain? 21 MR. I. : Captain. 22 MR. I. : SIS? 23 MR. I. : SIS. 24 MR. I. : Com Techs? 25 MR. I. : Com Techs. EFTA00142334 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 85 1 MR. I. : So, basically anyone who 2 had access should have technically have the 3 ability to review back. 4 MR. I. : To look back, yes. 5 MR. I. : What about Control? 6 Control just live view? 7 MR. I. : Live view, yes. And 8 that's something we added later. They never 9 had a password until - well, until we started 10 upgrading the system. 11 MR. I. : Okay. Their screens just 12 stayed live 13 MR. I. : Live view. 14 MR. I. : -- they couldn't mess with 15 it. 16 MR. I. : Yeah, they couldn't go 17 back or pull anything, no. 18 MR. I. : Okay. Anything on those 19 two questions? 20 MR. : Nope, I'm good. So, it sounds 21 like there's just a couple of types of 22 accounts. One is where you can rewind, save 23 and export video, and the standard user account 24 is just looking at the live feed. Is that 25 correct? EFTA00142335 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. I. : Yes. 2 MR. I. : Okay. 3 MR. : Okay. Thank you. 4 MR. I. : Now for - because they're 5 standard, as we mentioned, there's different 6 users, right? Standard user and, like, the 7 other type of users. 8 MR. I. : Mm-hmm. 9 MR. I. : Can they log in from any 10 computer, or -? 11 MR. I. : Yes, any computer that has 12 NiceVision on the computer. 13 MR. I. : Oh, so it had to be pre- 14 installed? 15 MR. I. : Yes, it had to be pre- 16 installed. And some computers just have 17 control, they don't have access to SuperVision, 18 or to, like, go back and play video. 19 MR. I. : Yeah. 20 MR. I. : They just have the 21 control. But even in control sometimes, you 22 can play back video that's there with just the 23 controller setting. You don't need Supervision 24 actually on that computer. If your log-in 25 permits you to go that far. EFTA00142336 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. I. : Okay. 2 MR. : And so, on that, Mr. 3 so there's just various desktops, if you will, 4 computers throughout the institution that had 5 NiceVision installed. 6 MR. I. : Yes. 7 MR. : And if you had an account, you 8 could get in there, correct? 9 MR. I. : Yes. 10 MR. : Okay. And are there a lot of 11 shared computers in the institution? 12 MR. I. : Yes, everybody shares. 13 MR. : Is that right? Like, like any 14 other institution? 15 MR. I. : Yes. 16 MR. : Okay. All right. And that's 17 all I have on that. Thanks. 18 MR. I. : Did the facilities manager 19 also have keys to the dedicated room containing 20 the camera DVR system? 21 MR. I. : Not that I know of. No. 22 MR. I. : So, it's just the Coms 23 Tech? 24 MR. I. : Well, where the DVRs are, 25 SIS had that key. I never had access to it. EFTA00142337 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. I. : Oh SIS, sorry, I said 2 wrong. 3 MR. I. : Yeah, the SIS. 4 MR. I. : Only the SIS. 5 MR. I. : Yeah. 6 MR. I. : So, the facilities 7 managers -. 8 MR. I. : We didn't have keys to get 9 in that room. Because that was the SIS. I 10 mean that's the room we were talking way before 11 all this happened, that we needed to get this 12 fixed and it never did until after. 13 MR. I. : Lieutenant 14 mentioned that downstairs in your office, the 15 Coms Tech office was in the basement? 16 MR. I. : Yes. 17 MR. I. : Was there, like, a tower 18 in your office with, like, the recorders and 19 things like that in the office? 20 MR. I. : No. 21 MR. I. : That gave you access to 22 MR. I. : No. I just had the live 23 feed from the old (Indiscernible *00:58:31), so 24 I could look at the live video, and at my 25 workstation I could look at -. I had a screen EFTA00142338 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 89 1 in my shop where I could look at the live feed. 2 MR. I. : Yeah. 3 MR. I. : And then, I had my desktop 4 computer where I could log into Nice and look 5 at what's being recorded, or what's working on 6 the recorders. 7 MR. I. : But she mentioned like a 8 terminal itself. Like, all the recorders, DVRs 9 and stuff -. 10 MR. I. : It probably looked like -. 11 It was probably my -. That's where the public 12 address was. And later on, after the install, 13 I put in a separate, like I put a network in my 14 shop, but that was later on. The only thing 15 that was in there was the public address, my 16 live feed, and my workstation. 17 MR. I. : This is prior to the 18 August 10th, 2019? 19 MR. I. : Yes. 20 MR. I. : Okay. But there's no 21 actual, like a DVR system, recorders, or 22 anything like that? 23 MR. I. : No, there was nothing in 24 the basement, no. 25 MR. I. : Okay. Anything else ASAC EFTA00142339 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 2 MR. : Yeah. I just want to double 3 back to the key situation and the rooms there. 4 So, the actual room with the DVR recorders, 5 right? 6 MR. I. : Yes. 7 MR. : And so, you had a key to that 8 and that's -. 9 MR. I. : No. I never had a key to 10 that until after all of this happened. After - 11 12 MR. : Okay, so the actual - so there 13 are two rooms. 14 MR. I. : Yes. 15 MR. : The way I understand it is 16 there was the phone monitor room, and then 17 within that room there's another locked room 18 that had the DVRs, correct? 19 MR. I. : Yes, yes. 20 MR. : Okay, so you didn't have a key 21 to either one of those rooms? 22 MR. I. : No. 23 MR. : Okay. Well, I'm glad I asked 24 because that was a little confusing. So, SIS 25 controlled the keys to both of those rooms? EFTA00142340 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 91 1 MR. : Yes, because that was the 2 Evidence Room. And like I stated before, I was 3 told numerous times that we should have our own 4 key or get your stuff out of the Recorder Room. 5 MR. : Okay. 6 MR. : And that's how it is at 7 most institutions. Just the Recorder Room. 8 Nobody else but the Com Techs have that key or 9 should. MDC Brooklyn, I have the same problem 10 now because that room is - I don't mean to be 11 talking off - but they use that room for other 12 stuff, so now you have people that do have the 13 key. These two institutions are rare because 14 when I worked in Terre Haute, only the Com 15 Techs had the key to go in the Recorder Room. 16 Nobody else should have the key. 17 These two institutions for space or 18 whatever, they use an excuse and other people 19 have the key to go in the room and nobody 20 should have the key but the Com Techs. 21 MR. : Okay. So, prior to August 22 10th, 2019, you did not have a key to that -- 23 MR. I. : No. We talked about it 24 before -- 25 MR. : -- Recorder Room? EFTA00142341 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 92 1 MR. I. -- about me getting access 2 to having a key so I could get in that room. 3 MR. I. : But you never did. 4 MR. : Okay, so -. 5 MR. I. : I never got it, no. 6 MR. : You didn't have one. I'm 7 assuming the facilities manager didn't have one 8 either then, back then. 9 MR. I. : No. 10 MR. : Okay. And so, you said SIS 11 controlled those keys. Obviously, the 12 lieutenant had it. Do you know if the SIS Tech 13 had the key? 14 MR. I. : The SIS Tech had the key 15 and the lieutenant, yes. 16 MR. : Okay. 17 MR. I. : And whoever was in the 18 Phone Monitoring Room or the Video Room. They 19 would have the key to get in also. 20 MR. : So, the phone monitor who is 21 just a CO that's rotating -- 22 MR. I. : Yes. 23 MR. or a staff member rotating 24 through there on a quarterly basis, they would 25 be given that DVR Room key, as well? EFTA00142342 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 93 1 MR. I. : They would have the key to 2 get in the room and the door is supposed to be 3 locked, but usually, I get - if they're already 4 - I could just go in the room in the back. 5 MR. I. : The room in the back. Is 6 that locked or is it just kept open? 7 MR. I. : It probably should have 8 been locked. Sometimes I went in there, it was 9 locked, sometimes it was open. 10 MR. : Okay, so, but for the phone 11 monitor, they had a room, obviously to the 12 Phone Monitor Room -- 13 MR. I. : Yes. 14 MR. : -- but not the actual DVR Room 15 16 MR. I. : I'm not sure if they had 17 that key. 18 MR. : -- but you're just saying that 19 sometimes -? 20 MR. I. : I don't know if they have 21 that key or not, but usually that room is open. 22 MR. : Okay. 23 MR. I. : Because only the SIS would 24 have that key. 25 MR. : Okay. All right. Good. EFTA00142343 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 94 1 Thanks a lot for clearing that up. And that's 2 all I had on the keys. I had one more 3 question, , if you were finished, before 4 we move on to the phone call. 5 MR. I. : Yes. 6 MR. I. : Yeah. 7 MR. : The DVR and DR training, we 8 saw some emails -- 9 MR. I. : Yeah. 10 MR. : -- which I think you -. 11 MR. I. : I never got training. 12 Everything was inhouse. 13 MR. : Okay. You did not take that 14 training? 15 MR. I. : I've never taken a 16 training. Everything I've learned is on-the- 17 job. 18 MR. : Okay. And the version, like - 19 so, the main thing is, when I started as a Com 20 Tech, I started in Indiana - and the version of 21 NiceVision I had was, like, two generations 22 before the current version when I went to MCC. 23 So, when I came to MCC, I thought MCC was going 24 to have the updated version, but they have the 25 old stuff, and then I had to figure out how EFTA00142344 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 that stuff worked. 2 MR. : Okay. 3 MR. I. : So, I was learning 4 backwards, pretty much. 5 MR. : All right. Thanks. I know 6 you had provided us with an email showing, I 7 forget the date. It was a certain point in 8 time you had not had the training. I was just 9 wondering if that had changed at any time prior 10 to the incident? 11 MR. I. : Up to this day, I've still 12 had no training -- 13 MR. : Okay. 14 MR. I. : -- from NiceVision. 15 MR. : All right. Well, hang in 16 there. Maybe one of these days. 17 MR. I. : I think I'm kind of an 18 expert now because -. 19 MR. : It sounds like it. All right, 20 and that's all I had. Thanks. 21 MR. I. : And onto the last topic. 22 MR. I. : Mm-hmm. 23 MR. I. : I'm going to show you a 24 document. Do you recognize this? 25 MR. I. : Yes. EFTA00142345 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 96 1 MR. I. : Can you explain to us what 2 that is? 3 MR. I. : This is the phone record 4 they probably made me pull. 5 MR. : Who made you pull? 6 MR. : The warden or SIS. 7 MR. : Okay. Can you read that? 8 Like, can you explain to us the date of the 9 call? 10 MR. 1. Okay, so the date is 8/9. 11 MR. That's August 9th. 12 MR. 1. : August 9th, 2019. 13 MR. 1. : And the time of the call? 14 MR. 1. : Which is 1858:03. 15 MR. 1. : That would be 6:58 p.m. 16 MR. 1. 58, yeah, and three 17 seconds. And then 18 MR. I. : The location. Would you 19 be able to say where the location is? 20 MR. I. : 6134. That's the caller 21 station. 22 MR. I. : Do you know, offhand, 23 where that is? 24 MR. I. : I believe that was a 25 housing unit, SHU. EFTA00142346 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. I. : Okay. 2 MR. I. : Yes. 3 MR. I. : And why did they ask you 4 to pull that? 5 MR. I. : Because they believed Mr. 6 Epstein was given a phone call before all this 7 happened. 8 MR. I. : And either the warden or 9 the SIS asked you to pull that? 10 MR. I. : To see if actually he got 11 a phone call. To make sure that they put him 12 in there to see if he really got a phone call. 13 MR. I. : And what was the number 14 that was dialed out? 15 MR. I. : The number that was dialed 16 out, (646) 243-8517. 17 MR. I. : And how long did that call 18 last? 19 MR. I. : Oh, so the start time was 20 1858:03. They answered 19 seconds later, and 21 then the call ended at 1919:10. 22 MR. I. : And what system did you 23 use to pull this up? 24 MR. I. : That's the PBX Phone 25 Switch, and that's pretty much anything going EFTA00142347 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 98 1 into the institution or coming out. That's the 2 phone record. 3 MR. I. : And based on your review 4 when you went in, this is the call? 5 MR. I. : That was the call, yes. 6 MR. I. : And you pulled this up, 7 you handed it over to the SIS or to 8 (Indiscernible *00:01:05:07)? 9 MR. I. : Whoever wanted me to - . 10 Like I said, there was a lot going on. I was 11 trying to do a lot. 12 MR. I. : And this was Epstein's 13 based on your recollection - this is Epstein's 14 last -- 15 MR. I. : Phone call. 16 MR. I. : -- phone call, and that 17 was provided to the OIG? 18 MR. I. : Yes. 19 MR. I. : Okay. Any questions? 20 ASAC , do you have any other questions? 21 MR. : I do not. Thanks. 22 MR. I. : Well, that's it from us. 23 MR. I. : Yeah. I thought it was 24 going to be more. 25 MR. I. : No. EFTA00142348 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 99 1 MR. I. : Hey, it's because it is a 2 lot. I know it's a lot. 3 MR. I. : It's a little confusing. 4 I should clarify the timing. 5 MR. I. : Yes. 6 MR. I. : We care only about August 7 10th and prior. 8 MR. I. : Prior. Yeah. 9 MR. I. : And thank God we were able 10 to clarify that. 11 MR. I. : Okay. 12 MR. I. : Same thing as before. All 13 the documents we showed you, we just need you 14 to initial -- 15 MR. I. : Oh, okay. 16 MR. I. : -- and date it. 17 MR. I. : Okay. 18 MR. I. : Yeah, let me put this it 19 front of you. 20 MR. I. : Okay. 21 MR. I. : Just initial and date 22 anywhere on the document. 23 MR. I. : Today is the -? 24 MR. I. : 4/7. 25 MR. I. : I'm bad with dates. EFTA00142349 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 100 1 should be better. (Indiscernible 2 *00:01:06:08). 3 MR. I. : Same thing. No, you're 4 fine. 5 MR. I. : Okay. 6 MR. I. : That's part of the same 7 document. Mr. , thank you for taking the 8 time to talk with us today. 9 MR. I. : Yes. 10 MR. I. : And we can't say we're not 11 going to come back here with more questions. 12 MR. I. : Uh-oh. 13 MR. I. : We might have more 14 questions. 15 MR. I. : You might have more 16 questions. 17 MR. I. : We'll reach out to you if 18 we do. 19 MR. I. : Okay. 20 MR. I. : And we'll set up another 21 interview. And thank you again. 22 MR. I. : Uh-huh. 23 MR. I. : This is Special Agent 24 The time is 11:28 a.m., I'm 25 concluding this interview. I'm stopping the EFTA00142350 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 101 1 recorder. 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 EFTA00142351 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 102 1 CERTIFICATE 2 I hereby certify that the foregoing pages 3 represent an accurate transcript of the 4 electronic sound recording of the proceedings 5 before the Department of Justice, Office of the 6 Inspector General in the matter of: 7 8 Interview of 9 10 11 12 , Transcriber 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 1 23 24 25 EFTA00142352