EFTA00064519

1 2 APPEARANCES: OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL BY: BY: WITNESS: DIGITALLY RECORDED SWORN STATEMENT OF OTHER APPEARANCES: OIG CASE #: 2019-010614 DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL AUGUST 12, 2019 FENTON TRANSCRIPTION 28720 Roadside Drive, Suite 250 Agoura Hills, CA 91301 Phone: (818) 991-8002 3 4 1 : Today is Monday, August 1 Basis. Do you have any questions about this 2 12. The following will be a voiiiiiii 2 form? 3 interview of BOP Warden in 3 : No. 4 furtherance of OIG investigation to be 4 : Would you like time to 5 determined, for the purpose of transcription, 5 review it with an attorney, or would you like 6 will now identify all present in the interview. 6 an attorne here? 7 I'll ask everyone to say and spell their last 7 : For now, I don't need an 8 name, as well as identify their working title 8 attorne . 9 and employer. 9 : Okay. Are you currently 10 I am S ecial Agent , 10 under the influence of any substances, or is 11 Office of the Insiector General. 11 there any reason to prevent you from fully 12 : Special Agent , 12 understanding my questions and answering 13 I, with the FBI. 13 truthfull toda ? 14 . , Warden, 14 : No. 15 Federal Bureau of Prisons. Selling of the 15 : I'll now swear you to the 16 name is first name is , last name is 16 statements you're about to make. Please raise 17 Ilis in apostrophe as in , 17 your hand and re.eat after me. 18 . 18 I 19 : Thank you. Warden 19 . I, . 20 -- 20 : Hereby solemnly swear or 21 : Um-hum. 21 affirm. 22 : -- you have reviewed and 22 : Hereby solemnly swear or 23 signed Department of Justice OIG Form 226-2 23 affirm. 24 which is Warnings and Assurances of Employees 24 : That the statements that 25 Request to Provide Information on a Voluntary 25 I'm about to make. EFTA00064519 S 6 1 : That the statements I'm 1 been the Warden? 2 about to make. 2 : I've been here since May of 3 : Shall be the truth and the 3 2018. 4 whole truth. 4 : Okay, great. Just, your S : Shall be the truth and the S role, you've done a lot of internal 6 whole truth. investigations with the prison and you've Thank you, sir. 7 worked with the Department of Justice for -- 8 NE Um-hum. 8 Um-hum. 9 : Warden would you mind 9 -- moving forward, just as 10 telling us a little bit about your career with 10 a note for the record, you're aware that 11 BOP? When you started, how you became a 11 failure to be honest with us today would be 12 Warden? 12 considered a criminal offense; correct? 13 Uh 13 Yes. 14 : How you moved up the 14 : Okay, great. Let's talk a 15 ranks. 15 little bit about some overall policies at the 16 : I started out as a 16 prison to start with. 17 Correctional Officer, and I was promoted to a 17 Okay. 18 Lieutenant. From there, I went to Special 18 : So, actually let me back 19 Investigative Agent at our regional office, and 19 up. We're here today to talk about, 20 then I went from there, I was promoted to 20 specifically Jeffrey Epstein. 21 Captain, and then I was Associate Warden, and 21 : Um-hum. 22 then from there I went to DC as a Chief 22 : The inmate. 23 Internal Affairs, and now in my present 23 : Um-hum. 24 position. 24 : Would you mind just 25 : Great. How long have you 25 telling us a little bit about when, your 7 8 1 understanding of when he arrived and that type 1 weren't. 2 of, when he arrived, how he was placed, where 2 : Okay. 3 he was laced and the reasons behind that? 3 MEI You know, I mean, we saw it 4 : I don't remember the 4 on the news, but it didn't say. They just said S specific date he arrived, but we didn't, what S they had him in custody, but we didn't get any 6 happened was, we weren't told that he was going 6 formal, I didn't get any formal notice that he 7 to be comin to the institution. 7 had been brought into the institution. 8 : Okay. 8 So, he was dropped off, and you know, the 9 : When he initially came, he 9 Lieutenant on shift processed him in and 10 was dropped off on the weekend, and we didn't 10 brought him into the institution. We didn't 11 find out until Monday, myself, that he had been 11 find out or realize it until Monday. 12 placed at the institution. And from then on, 12 : So, it was Monday that you 13 we, you know, went through the whole process of 13 first were officially made aware of it? 14 the screening, his medical stuff. Just normal 14 : That I was made aware. You 15 procedures that we follow and (Indiscernible 15 know, we found out, and I don't remember if it 16 *00:04:04 . 16 was from looking at the news reports, we put it 17 : Okay. Now when you say 17 together that he had been brought into the 18 "he was dropped off over the weekend", when 18 institution. We went through our Monday 19 somebody arrives at the facility, what's the 19 morning meeting that we went through. So, 20 normal -- 20 that's when -- 21 : I mean typically if 21 : When he first arrived, was 22 somebod 's that high profile -- 22 he placed in general population? Do you know 23 : Um-hum. 23 where he was laced? 24 : -- we should've been 24 : I don't recall where he was 25 notified and said hey, he's coming in. We 25 placed when he came in. EFTA00064520 9 10 1 : At some point, he was 1 : But as far as you know, 2 placed in Special Housing Unit? 2 that Monday, the first business day after the 3 Yes. 3 weekend he was initially dropped off. 4 Known as the SHU. 4 Right. S Right. S : From that point forward, : how did he end up there? was he ever in eneral population? 7 : Well, he was a new 7 No. 8 commitment. He was high profile. So, we 8 : Okay. What are the 9 placed him in the Special Housing Unit so we 9 policies in terms of, or is there policy that 10 can further evaluate, you know, his status. Is 10 dictates when somebody goes into general 11 he ready for general population? And we do 11 population from the SHU after the first 12 that with all inmates, but -- 12 arrival? 13 14 EMI Okay. -- and then to see, okay, 15 any separation issues. Any threats to him, 13 : Well, what we do is we 14 evaluate the individual to see if they're ready 15 for general population, if they can hang, you 16 before we put him out there in general 16 know -- 17 population. 17 Um-hum. 18 19 population? 20 : Was he ever in general : I don't recall. I don't, 18 19 20 . -- if they can populate. : Okay. And it's a number of 21 I'm not sure if it might've been the first day 21 factors. It depends. I mean, if I have a gang 22 when he came in. 23 Okay. 22 member coming in, I'm taking into consideration 23 separation issues on it. If it's, you know, 24 Er But I'm not sure, so I mean, 24 somebody that might've been fraud or bank 25 I would have to look at the 37 to confirm. 25 fraud, then we determine if it's any issues of 11 12 1 them going into the general population. So, 1 : Okay. 2 it's a case-by-case basis on how we determine 2 So, between evaluating him, 3 it. 3 at the same time, we're looking at saying, 4 : Okay. What are the 4 okay, can he o to general population. policies in terms of when you're notified if S : Um-hum. 6 someone enters Special Housing Unit or is 6 : So, it's a dual role that 7 dischar ed from Special Housing Unit? 7 we're oin to -- 8 : Well what it is is, it's 8 : Sure. 9 routed the individual, it's called a Release 9 : But I had gotten word, and I 10 Form. So, several people sign it. They review 10 don't recall the date, where from my Regional 11 it. I believe psychology, CMC, the Captain, 11 Director which stated he's not to go to general 12 and it goes to the Associate Warden and then 12 population until further notice. 13 they sign what we call is a Kick-Out. Meaning 13 : The Regional Director, 14 everybody's reviewed it and said, okay, this 14 where is that in the chain of command for BOP? 15 person is a ro riate for general population. 15 : We have five regional 16 : Okay. For Mr. Epstein, 16 offices. 17 after that, he was never put in general 17 : Okay. 18 population• correct? 18 =, Each region has a Regional 19 a No. 19 Director. 20 : Was the determination to 20 : Okay. 21 keep him in Special Housing? What was the 21 11.1 This is the Northeast 22 communication that goes on there? 22 Region. 23 : Well we, now initially when 23 : Okay. 24 he came in, it's the goal to determine, okay, 24 IN Where we have 21 25 can they go to general population. 2S institutions. So, he supervises and is in EFTA00064521 13 14 1 charge of the 21 institutions. 2 Okay. So, is he -- 1 2 a Right. : Okay. After Mr. I 3 : (Indiscernible *00:08:37). 3 told you to keep him, or it was agreed upon -- 4 -- your direct supervisor? 4 : Um-hum. S : He's my director supervisor. S • -- to keep him in Special : Oka . 'Who is that? 6 Housi . . phonetic sp.). Right. 8 . ? 8 : Who did you notify that he 9 : Yeah. 9 was to stay in the Special Housing Unit? How 10 : And Mr. told you, 10 does that communication -- 11 do you recall if it was verbally or an email? 11 : So, what it does is I get my 12 Phone call? 12 exec staff together -- 13 : We had talked about it, too, 13 : Um-hum. 14 but I would have to check if there was an email 14 : -- which is my Associate 15 to go with it. But we did talk and said, hey, 15 Wardens, the Captain, my exec, and we have our 16 we're going to hold off on putting him out in 16 meetings, and I tell them he's not, you know, I 17 general o ulation. 17 lay out the specific instructions. He's not to 18 : Okay. Do you recall when 18 go out to general population. And -- 19 you officially were, you and Mr. , spoke 19 : Were there, sorry. 20 about this? 20 Co ahead. 21 : I don't want to give you the 21 No. 22 wrong date. But it was within that, you know, 22 : And that's basically how we 23 maybe a cou le weeks after he arrived. 23 start. 24 : Okay. So, it was a few 24 IlWOkay. 25 weeks after he arrived -- 25 Yeah. 15 16 1 : Were there any other 1 they would be housed by themselves. They could 2 specific directions or instructions given to 2 have an incident in the institution, you know, 3 the staff re arding him? 3 for example our gang members, somebody has an 4 : Well, so at the time of him 4 issue, and for example, the Bloods, then we 5 staying in there, we had to find him initially S have to say hey, let's separate him from there. 6 a roommate. 6 You know? 7 : Okay. 7 : Was there any directions 8 IM! So, and it's hard especially 8 specifically that Mr. Epstein was to have a 9 in Special Housing Unit when you've got gang 9 cellmate at all times? 10 members in there that are not appropriate to be 10 : From psychology when -- 11 housed with. So, we came up with, I came up 11 : Okay. 12 with , who was in there. White 12 : -- said hey, that he's 13 male, probably be able to cope with him. And 13 required, he needs to have a cellmate at all 14 that's typically how we, you know, that's part 14 times. 15 of the evaluation process. 15 : Okay. And that occurred 16 : Is it standard for inmates 16 later on? When he first arrived, there was no 17 in Special Housing Unit to have cellmates? 17 specific directions regarding that; correct? 18 : We typically would like for 18 : No, it wasn't. 19 them to have it. 19 : Okay. 20 : Sure. 20 : Wait, let me. 21 W I But certain situations 21 : Sure. 22 dictate that they can. If an inmate's a total 22 : You mean when he first came 23 separation from a group, and we get word from 23 in were we talkin about him having a cellmate? 24 US Attorney's office or the arresting agents 24 : Initially. 25 that, hey, he's to be totally separated, then 25 : I don't recall any talks EFTA00064522 17 18 1 about him. 1 in, you know, he was high profile. So, we 2 : Okay. 2 brought him in to determine -- 3 MIW Initially, and trying to 3 FEMALE VOICE: Excuse me. 4 figure out when he first came in, how he was 4 : Yeah. S housed. I don't recall how he was housed when S FEMALE VOICE: Can you guys step out here he first came in. but -- for just a moment? 7 : Okay. The MCC is no 7 We, pausing the interview 8 stranger profile -- 8 at 10:55 a.m. (tape paused). 9 • Right. 9 We're resuming the interview with Warden 10 • -- inmates. Generally 10 11 speaking, how do you normally, or generally 11 12 handle these type of high profile inmates? Any 12 13 other special considerations or concerns. How 13 Yeah. 14 does this work? 14 : (Indiscernible *00:00:14). 15 : Again, you come in. We 15 The time is now 10:56. Joining the interview 16 evaluate him to determine, okay, if they can go 16 room is Assisting United States Attiiiiiiirom 17 out to general population or not. We've had, 17 the Southern District of New York, 18 you know, we've had a bunch that come in that 18 19 were able to go out. We hadIIIIIII(phonetic 19 MS. 20 sp.), you know, the phone that, I don't know if 20 , I apologize. 21 ou recall, 21 Can you spell your name for transcription 22 22 purposes? 23 Indiscernible *00:12:41). 23 MS. : Sure. 24 : Okay. 24 . Thanks. 25 • Him. So, when he first came 25 : Thank you. Before we were 19 20 1 just going over some of the overall high- 1 : Okay. 2 profile inmates and the general -- 2 =I So, it wasn't like I had to 3 : Um-hum. 3 be updated as to where he was. I knew where he 4 : -- evaluation of them. 4 was. 5 Going back to, you said earlier that a few 6 weeks had occurred. You and the Regional 7 Director discussed keeping Epstein in the 6 =I : Okay. I mean, I knew that he went 7 on his attorney visits, spent the whole day 8 Special Housin Unit. 8 there. Would be the first one in, last one 9 : Um-hum. 9 out. So, I mean, that's what I knew. And then 10 : How often was the Regional 10 I kind of (Indiscernible *00:02:06) with the 11 Director bein briefed on Epstein? 11 attorneys. I had some outside attorneys 12 : I guess the situation 12 complain about, you know, they were taking up 13 dictated it. If something happened, then we'd 13 the attorney room. So, I knew that was, you 14 notify him, or he needed some questions for 14 know, those issues were coming up with the 15 him, he would call me. But I don't want to, I 15 attorne room. 16 don't recall the specific amount of times. But 16 : Okay. Going back to 17 we were in contact. 17 general olicies at the -- 18 MS. : Um-hum. 18 • Um-hum. 19 Frequent contact. 19 : -- within the BOP, 20 : Okay. How often were you, 20 actuall when E stein arrive -- 21 are you notified differently of high-profile 21 • Um-hum. 22 inmates or how often were you being aware or 22 • -- I think we already 23 notified of E stein's housing situation? 23 covered this, but just to, were any special 24 : Well, I mean, he was in the 24 arran ements or considerations given to him? 25 Special Housing Unit. So, I knew where he was. 25 : As far as -- EFTA00064523 21 22 1 : Obviously you said earlier 1 Okay. When -- 2 he was ut in the SHU on Monday. 2 -- that he was taking. 3 : Right. 3 : When inmates come into the 4 : After, was it, at that 4 MCC, are they all screened for mental health S point, was there any issues that you're aware S issues or medical issues? 6 of regarding him? Anything that you needed to : Well, yes. They come in, 7 be aware of other than just who he was? you're screened for your medical. The unit 8 : No. lust who he was and the 8 team screens you and psychology screens you. 9 basic screenin . The intake screening. 9 But -- 10 : Okay. At the time he 10 : What timeframe does that 11 first arrived, did you have any, was there any 11 occur? 12 notification of any mental health concerns? 12 • Typically like with him, he 13 : No, not that I know of. 13 came in on the weekend. So, it depends if 14 : Okay. How -- 14 there was a psychologist. Maybe the next day 15 : Are you talking about the 15 someone would go screen him, the on-call 16 weekend he came in, or -- 16 psychologist. But, you know, or Monday if 17 : Yeah. 17 someone came in. But typically the on-call 18 : (Indiscernible *00:03:19). 18 psychologist is there through the weekend and 19 : First arrival. 19 will screen them. 20 : That weekend, I don't know. 20 : Who is notified of the 21 But I know afterwards, he was medically 21 results of those screenings? 22 assessed and they were, you know, our health 22 in of? 23 service department assessed him and he, I think 23 : Of the medical screen and 24 he might have told him that he had certain 24 psychological screenings, who gets notified of 25 medications. 25 that? 23 24 1 : As far as what? If they 1 : Okay. And when he first 2 find something in there? 2 arrived, were you made aware of any medical or 3 : Yes. 3 mental issues regarding him? 4 : Like what would be an 4 : Mental health, I don't 5 example? I mean -- 5 recall any mental health. But I was told that 6 : Any medical concerns that 6 he was on certain medications or whatever. But 7 people need to be aware of. Any psychological 7 it was eneral. It wasn't -- 8 issues. How does that information get 8 : Okay. 9 disseminated? 9 • -- anything major. 10 : Because when we talk about 10 : Okay. And just, and 11 medical issues, some of that falls under 11 that's a general policy for all inmates that 12 privacy issues. 12 arrive? 13 : Um-hum. 13 : The screening, yeah. 14 So, you know, it's not going 14 : lust the medical 15 to -- 15 screenin . The all get that? 16 : Okay. 16 : Right. 17 -- just like that. 17 : Is there any, as a result 18 : Sure. 18 of those screenings, is there any, does it have 19 But as far as psychological, 19 any bearing on where they're placed, whether 20 if it was something that psychologists did an 20 it's special housing or general population? 21 interview and said, hey, there's a mental 21 : I mean typically if you do, 22 health issue or something, then she would, you 22 like I said, if you do an intake screening and 23 know, she would let her Associate Warden know. 23 the individual comes in and they have no 24 She would let me know that, hey, there's some 24 issues, no separation issues, and, you know, 25 issues. 25 then they can populate like anyone else. But EFTA00064524 25 26 1 if there are issues with them going out in 1 : Okay. 2 general population; i.e., safety issues, then 2 111, And it's a cell, and if you 3 you would be laced in the Special Housing. 3 go on suicide watch, you're placed in a smock. 4 : Okay. 4 : Okay. : Until we could further 5 =I That covers you and then 6 evaluate if ou could go to general population. 6 you're watched for 24 hours. 7 : If someone during the 7 : Now the smock, is that 8 mental health screening, the mental health, the 8 made of a er or -- 9 psycholo ist deemed them to be suicidal -- 9 It's cloth. 10 : Okay. 10 : Cloth? 11 : -- what are the suicidal 11 It's like, you ever see 12 watch olicies as it relates to that? 12 those movies where they have those heavy bomb 13 : So, if the psychologist was 13 vests? 14 to say, hey, they're suicidal, then they would 14 : Uh -- 15 be placed on suicide watch. 15 1.1 It's something, I mean, I 16 Okay. 16 don't want to you know, say, but it's something 17 11.1 1 Now if the psychologist is 17 like that. 18 not there and someone exhibits suicidal 18 : Okay. 19 ideations or statements or thoughts, then 19 : And it just hangs. 20 they're laced on suicide watch. 20 : Sure. 21 : Can you explain to me what 21 : Hangs on them just like 22 suicide watch is, where it is in the MCC -- 22 that. So -- 23 : It's on the second floor of 23 : And you said they're 24 the institution, on the same floor of the 24 monitored for 24 hours. How are they, is it -- 25 hospital. 25 There's a companion sitting 27 28 1 there. An inmate. 1 to suicide. So, they'd say, okay you know 2 In the cell? 2 what, the 're ready to go back up. 3 : No. Outside the cell. 3 : Okay. What role, how does 4 : Okay. 4 the program, is the psychologist the program S 11 : It's a cell where you sit S coordinator? and observe. : The chief psychologist runs 7 : Okay. Is the companion 7 the department. 8 another inmate or a staff? 8 : Okay. 9 : No, it's a trained inmate 9 And then she has various 10 companion. Now, we have four cells. If those 10 psychologists that work under her. 11 cells get full, then we have to move them up to 11 : Okay. 12 the Special Housing Unit and then put a staff 12 And then evaluate because we 13 watch on them. 13 have a different mission as far as we have a 14 : Okay. What policies are 14 forensic mission. So, we get a lot of forensic 15 in place for suicide watch as it relates to 15 studies in the institution. 16 staff response, notification, how people get 16 Okay. 17 notified, if they're moving from suicide watch 17 11.1 And then we have a regular 18 to off suicide watch. How does that work? 18 psychologist also that handles the inmate 19 : That works through 19 population but they work together and they 20 psycholo 20 handle ever thin . 21 : Okay. 21 : Okay. Who's ultimately 22 : Psychology evaluates and 22 responsible for placing somebody on suicide 23 they'll say, okay, we've evaluated him and, you 23 watch or off suicide watch? 24 know, wherever we're going, typically you 24 : Well placing it, a staff 25 always usually go from the Special Housing Unit 25 member comes and says hey, this guy is EFTA00064525 29 30 1 suicidal. You can place him on suicide watch. 1 : Yeah. They send out a form 2 : Okay. Anybody in the 2 every day stating like who's on suicide watch, 3 institution can do that? 3 who's onpsyche observation. So -- 4 : Yeah. If I come upon an 4 : Okay. inmate that's saying, "Hey, I'm going to kill S : -- we're aware of who it is 6 myself." Okay, we get him on suicide watch. 6 and then they'll send out a form if there's no 7 Psychology comes and, you know, evaluates them 7 one on there. 8 and then comes u with a plan. 8 : You said earlier that 9 : Within the psychology 9 while on suicide watch, there was an observer. 10 department -- 10 Right. 11 Um-hum. 11 : How does an inmate become 12 -- or the medical 12 an observer? 13 department there in mental health, who there 13 : It's an inmate companion. 14 ultimatel makes that decision? 14 : A companion, I'm sorry. 15 : I believe, and don't quote 15 : So, it's a trained program. 16 me on this. I believe the psychologists. 16 So, they have to go through training. They 17 Okay. 17 have to take courses, and then they become 18 You know, they're trained 18 eligible to become a companion. 19 professionals. So, they can make a decision 19 : Who authorizes the use of 20 and they consult with the Chief in, you know, 20 an inmate com anion? 21 determining okay what's the plan of action to 21 : The psychology department 22 move forward. 22 runs that. So -- 23 : And are you, when 23 : Do you have any input as 24 someone's placed in suicide watch, are you 24 the Warden in selecting or training or 25 notified of that? 25 implementing the inmate companion program? 31 32 In 1 2 No. : Does every institution 3 have an inmate companion program? 1 2 1.1 3 separate sition. : Okay. Clinical Director is a 4 Yes. 4 : Okay. I apologize for a S VS. : Who's the Chief S that. 6 : That's fine. 7 Psychiiiiiiiiiill: (phonetic 7 : Thank you for clarifying. 8 sp.). 8 : Okay. 9 : And Ms. is the one 9 : Who in the medical staff, 10 who is ultimately responsible for determining 10 just for my clarification, who in the medical 11 if someone is on suicide watch and removing 11 staff is ultimately responsible for removing 12 them; correct? 12 somebod from suicide watch? 13 : Well in conjunction with our 13 : The psychology department 14 staff. 14 determines to remove somebody from -- 15 16 1.1 Okay. Because you could be, a 17 psychologist is assigned to the individual when 15 16 department? 17 : So, who in the psychology : Again, it depends on who's 18 they're working a plan with them. And if they 18 evaluating the inmate. 19 come to the determination that hey, you know 19 : Okay. So -- 20 what, they no longer need to be on suicide 20 : And so we have one, two, 21 watch. 21 three, really_we have, (Indiscernible 22 : Okay. But as the clinical 22 *00:12:26) IIIII, uh, four. We have four 23 director she's ultimately responsible. 23 psycholo ists on staff. 24 : She's not the clinical. 24 : You have four 25 She's the Chief Psychologist. 25 psychologists on staff. And any one of those EFTA00064526 33 34 1 four can remove somebody? 1 with your decision, then we debate it and then 2 : Can remove somebody. 2 we ultimately come to a decision. 3 : Do those four have, who's 3 : Okay. 4 those four supervisors? 4 As to yay or nay. 5 Dr. IIIIIIii 5 : Okay. 6 : Dr. 6 : So, it's kind of the same 7 Yeah. 7 thing. : What authority does she 8 : While on suicide watch, 9 have to overrule them? 9 you said there's a 24-hour companion. What 10 : And I'm not a psychologist - 10 does staff do for the inmates while they're on 11 11 suicide watch? 12 13 WI 14 they use -- : Sure. -- to know what procedures 12 : Well we have a camera, well 13 they're trained to, there's a phone there. So, 14 let's say something happened where an inmate's 15 Um-hum. 15 trying to do harm to himself. They pick up the 16 Mr -- or what conversation they 16 phone and they call for assistance, because it 17 have to determine if she's going to overrule 17 goes directly to control center, and we respond 18 them. I mean, she's the supervisor, and it's 18 accordingly to it. 19 just like with any, you know, profession you 19 But we also in our control center, while 20 have. 20 the individual is on suicide watch, there's a 21 Right. 21 camera there. 22 Mr If I come up with some 22 Okay. 23 reasonin -- 23 To view -- 24 25 I S Um-hum. In saying hey, I don't agree 35 24 . : What specific training 25 does staff get as it relates to the suicide 36 1 watch? 1 : That's our policy dictates 2 : Once a year during our 2 that the et training. 3 annual training, we have suicide prevention 3 : Okay. That's BOP policy; 4 trainin . 4 correct? : Okay. IM Yes. 6 During our annual training. 6 : Okay. When someone, you 7 : And that's required for 7 said that any staff member at the BOP can place 8 all -- somebody on suicide watch? 9 10 a 11 cover? All employees. : What does that training 9 10 : Yes. : Is there any paperwork or 11 documentation for that that they have to fill 12 : Suicide signs, prevention, 12 out? 13 coping, just anything pertaining to suicide, 13 : No. Basically they'll tell 14 sir. Signs to look for. 14 that, you know, that hey we need to place him 15 : Um-hum. 15 on watch, and we'll place him on watch, and 16 Um -- 16 then we'll contact psychology. 17 : Is there any specific 17 Okay. 18 staff that are more trained, or specifically 18 To come in and talk to them. 19 trained for this area of the prison? 19 . : Okay. There's no referral 20 : Our Special Housing Unit 20 that sa s "I laced inmate" -- 21 staff get quarterly suicide prevention 21 : No. Psychology will handle 22 trainin . 22 it -- 23 24 something the MCC : Okay. Is that part of does independent, or is that 25 policy dictated? How does that -- 23 24 IN -- Okay. here and there, in their 25 notes and their documentation that they were EFTA00064527 37 38 1 placed on it when they were placed on it. 1 : Do you get notified, you 2 So, the psychology 2 just said you get notified in the email that 3 department is responsible for documenting when 3 somebod 's removed or -- 4 people come in in treatment. 4 : It's an email that the S : We, you know, we have what S psychology department puts out stating who's on we call a daily log in the -- suicii2I22 11 tls been removed. 7 : Um-hum. 7 M : Is that a daily list? 8 : -- institution. So, the log 8 Like they send it once a day, or when someone 9 would annotate somebody was placed on suicide 9 new comes on and off? How does that -- 10 watch also. 10 It's a daily one. And -- 11 12 specific forms or : Okay. Is there any reports that get filled out 13 when somebod is removed from suicide watch? 14 : I believe psychology would 11 12 . : Okay. And it states who's on 13 watch, who's, you know, who's got released, and 14 15 do those forms and saying in their reports why 15 : Who does that get 16 they were removed and if they're ready to be 16 disseminated to? 17 released. 17 It's a group. It's a group 18 19 =I Do you get those forms? I don't get the special 20 medical ones. I just, with the notification 18 email that gets sent to all department heads, 19 Captain, Lieutenants, everybody in the need to 20 know. 21 that, you know, with the one that email that 21 : This is the supervisors 22 goes out -- 22 within the institution? The Lieutenants, the 23 Um-hum. 23 Captain. 24 -- that the individual was 24 (Indiscernible *00:17:07). 25 released from suicide watch. 25 : Okay. 39 40 1 : And, don't quote me on that, 1 removed from suicide watch. So, it depends on 2 but I need to look at the chain -- 2 where they're going. So, if they're going back 3 Okay. 3 to Special Housing Unit, so it's notification 4 -- to see who's actually on 4 that hey, this person's been taken off. We 5 it. But -- have nobod on watch right now. 6 : But it's not an 6 : Okay. Are they supposed institution-wide email? 7 to disseminate that? What are they supposed to 8 : It is kind of sent out 8 do with that information? Are they supposed to 9 institution wide because you have the different 9 tell an bod where they -- 10 departments on it. So, you can say it's 10 : Well, I mean when that 11 institution wide. 11 individual is released -- 12 : Not every person in the 13 institution ets that email, though? 14 No. I don't -- 12 13 =I Um-hum. Wherever they're going for, 14 they're going to be notified by psychology that 15 : Okay. Just not an MCC all 15 they're coming directly -- 16 type of -- 16 : Okay. 17 : No, it's not an all staff. 17 -- to you. 18 : Okay. 18 : Okay. 19 a: Yeah. 19 So, it was just an 20 : What is the expectation of 20 accountabilit 21 the department heads and the supervisors and 21 : Okay. 22 the Lieutenants and Captains once they get this 22 -- thing just to know that 23 email? What are they supposed to do with that? 23 hey, this erson is getting off of watch. 24 : I mean, it's just a 24 : So, psychology will notify 25 notification that the individual's being 25 whatever unit they're going back to? EFTA00064528 41 42 1 : Well, it depends where 1 morning, they could say, you know, this is 2 you're going back to. Typically I always go to 2 who's on watch, and then you get another one 3 Special Housin Unit down. 3 statin who's been released off of watch. 4 : Okay. 4 : Okay. Is there any policy : And typically when you do, 5 or standard operation procedure on how 6 let's say an individual has tried to commit 6 (Indiscernible *00:19:21) that email gets sent 7 suicide. It's an infraction. So, they usually 7 out? 8 have an incident report that goes beyond that. 8 : How what? 9 So, you have to come up to the Special Housing 9 : How frequent that email -- 10 Unit anyway before so that that infraction can 10 : No. 11 be resolved. 11 : Okay. But it should be at 12 : Okay. 12 least once a da ? 13 =I So, there are a number of 13 : That's when they send it 14 aspects of, you know, how. Did you go straight 14 out. I don't -- 15 back or if you don't go back there. 15 : Okay. When somebody is 16 : And this email that 16 removed from S ecial Housing -- 17 psychology sends out with the list of who's in 17 Um-hum. 18 and who's out of suicide watch -- 18 : -- and placed in suicide 19 : Who's on watch, yeah? 19 watch on the second floor -- 20 : -- is that once a day or 20 : Um-hum. 21 twice a day? Is that morning and evening 21 : -- is anything done to 22 thing? 22 their cell in Special Housing? Is there any 23 : It depends. 23 precautions or anything that go into that? 24 : Okay. 24 : So, typically let's say you 25 : When you come in in the 25 do leave, and it depends on how much space we 43 44 1 have. We reall don't have that much space. 1 perform -- 2 Okay. 2 Okay. 3 : So, usually that cell, 3 -- an initial intake 4 depending on if when they were removed from the 4 screenin . 5 cell, if they had a cellmate. So, what happens S : Is there a level below 6 is that individual's property is removed, and suicide watch? 7 we could possibly put somebody else in that Well we also have what we 8 cell. 8 call a osvche observation. 9 : Okay. 9 : Okay. 10 . Um -- 10 And I think the best way to 11 : And again, the suicide 11 describe that would be it's a step-down from 12 watch versus psychological, the psyche eval 12 suicide watch. For example, we might have a 13 that, you said that happened right away when 13 mental health inmate that is just mentally, you 14 someone first comes in the prison; correct? 14 know, out there. So, we'll put them on psyche 15 . Well I 15 observation. They haven't said they're going 16 : A psyche eval? 16 to hurt themselves, but they have the potential 17 I didn't say what you 17 to do it. 18 said before that. You said -- 18 Somebody might be on narcotics and acting 19 : A psychological eval. 19 erratic and you don't know what they're on. 20 Okay. 20 So, they might end up doing it. But it's a 21 : I want to clarify, earlier 21 different type of observation because it's not 22 you said that people, inmates get that when 22 as strip ent as suicide watch. 23 they first come into the prison; correct? 23 Okay. 24 : Yeah. Psychologically when 24 MS. : Can you explain what that 25 they initially have to come and actually 25 means? What are the requirements when an EFTA00064529 45 46 1 inmate is on psyche eval, or psyche 1 that? 2 observation? 2 : I don't overrule medical 3 : If they're on psyche 3 decisions. I'm not a doctor. 4 observation, we are not necessarily putting 4 : Um-hum. S them in a smock. You know? You can still have S 1.1 1 If they come to me and say 6 your regular clothing. We're just observing 6 this is warranted whether it's medical care or 7 your behavior and that. So, that's the 7 not, I don't -- 8 difference. 8 : Okay. 9 MS. : And does the psychologist 9 MS. : But you're briefed on it? 10 stop b ever day? 10 I'm briefed on it. Yes. 11 : They're treated the same way 11 MS. : Is that orally? 12 as somebody that's on suicide watch. They're 12 : Orally they'll come and say, 13 evaluated, come up with a plan. They're ready 13 well we'll discuss an inmate saying, hey, he 14 to be released. Keep them on, more along those 14 has mental issues. I feel that they need to be 15 lines. 15 placed here or there. And I'm going with your 16 MS. : Well is someone on psyche 16 evaluation. I'm not going to, and I have good 17 evaluation, do they have an inmate companion 17 psychologists. So, I trust their judgment. 18 watchin them? 18 MS. : Can an inmate be taken off 19 : Psyche obs also has an 19 of suicide watch by Dr. or her staff 20 inmate companion. So, anybody in that area has 20 without consulting you? 21 an inmate watchin them. 21 : They can. The doctor 22 : As the Warden, do you have 22 decides who's coming off of watch. So, they 23 any input on the determinate if someone's in 23 can make the determination and, you know, they 24 psychological observation, in suicide watch or 24 send up to the Associate Warden, the Captain, 25 observation status? Do you have any input on 25 and it will come to release and if they're 47 48 1 going off it. So, it doesn't -- 1 Sorry. 2 MS. But do they -- 2 111! Being, I guess, reviewed by 3 -- have to necessarily, it's 3 psycholo 4 not my ap,iir 4 : Sure. MS. : Do they typically consult -- they're following him. 6 you when that happens? 6 He was on their case. : Depending on, you know, if 8 it's the case, you know? Who it is, you might 9 be, like I said, a high profile individual they 7 8 1111: 9 knew about it? Okay. 1 And you want to know what I 10 would say, "Hey, we're taking him off of watch. 10 Yes. 11 We're doing this." So, we'll be following the 11 Ml! Again, he was under their 12 plan S.-- 12 care. They were evaluating him, and, you know, 13 -- 14 leffre E stein : When it comes to Epstein, 13 going through their protocol to determine why 14 he was on watch. If he was on suicide watch, 15 16 17 SII health program. Um-hum. Can -- he was in the mental you just tell us your 18 understanding of his involvement with the 15 can he come off of suicide watch? Was he 16 suicidal? Thins like that. 17 : At any time, were you 18 aware or notified of him being suicidal or 19 psychologist at MCC? 19 havin an suicidal ideations or attempts? 20 : Um, let me back-track. 20 : Well we had an incident 21 : Sure. 21 where he was in the cell with 22 : It's not a mental health 22 Okay. 23 program. 23 -- that it might've been a 24 Okay. 24 suicide attempt and it might not have been a 25 Um -- 25 suicide attempt. So, we followed the protocols EFTA00064530 49 50 1 and put him on watch. There was also an 1 MS. : Did you speak with Dr. 2 internal investigation where he was interviewed 2 after she had consulted with Mr. Epstein 3 and his cellmate was interviewed, and he 3 when he was laced on suicide watch? 4 basically denied Indiscernible *00:25:35). 4 : Um, yes. We have SHU S : When you say "he denied", 5 meetings, and we have it once a week, and 6 Epstein was brought up, and she talked about 7 : He said -- 7 Mr. Epstein. -- or Epstein? 8 MS. ' After the suicide attempt? 9 : No, Epstein stated that, 9 Yes. 10 "He I didn't try to kill myself." And then 10 MS. : What day of the week is 11 said that he was sitting in the 11 the SHU thin t pically? 12 cell. He thought he was having a heart attack. 12 : It's Thursdays. 13 So, I forget the words psychology used to 13 NS. : All right and -- 14 determine what their conclusion was as far as 14 Right. 15 the actual act. 15 MS. -- what happens at the SHU 16 17 •M : Okay. Did you review the 18 incident re ort for the suicide attempt? 16 meetin s? 17 : It's a list where we go 18 around and we talk about every inmate. We have 19 : I reviewed the investigative 19 inmates that are in there for infractions, 20 report that the Lieutenant interviewed both of 20 criminal issues, from your office, a high- 21 them, took their statements, and all that 21 profile guy might come in. So, we just talk 22 because the review process goes from, the 22 about, okay, what's the status. If we call in 23 Lieutenant initiates it. It goes to the 23 a disciplinary citation, that means they've 24 Captain, Associate Warden, and myself. And 24 been sanctioned and they're doing time, and 25 then I, uh, sign off on it. 25 then we look at the release date. We have some 51 52 1 in there pending investigations. Cellphone 1 correct? 2 introduction. Drug introduction. So, that 2 No. 3 goes through the investigative process, and 3 MS. : Do you have an 4 then we have, you know, we also have our SAMs 4 understanding of how, for instance, if you tell S (phonetic sp.) inmates that are housed in 5 the Lieutenant, I want this done in the SHU, there. 6 will the Lieutenant then tell his duty Officers 7 So, we basically discuss and talk about 7 after the meeting? 8 every inmate. 8 : Well, the duty officer is 9 MS. : And who attends these 9 supposed to make rounds throughout the 10 meetin s? 10 institution when they're on duty to observe and 11 : Myself, all the Associate 11 report if anything is not right. And then if 12 Wardens, the Unit Managers, psychology, the 12 we have incidents, they make notifications, you 13 Captain, the SHU Lieutenant, the Investigative 13 know, to the re ion. 14 Lieutenant. So, we just have everyone there 14 MS. : To the region? 15 that's involved in the -- 15 : To, like let's say we have a 16 MS. : And what's your 16 fight. 17 understanding of whether the SHU Lieutenant or 17 MS. : Um-hum. 18 the Captain brief out the duty Officers in the 18 : Or maybe like you said, a 19 SHU about the outcome of that SHU meeting every 19 suicide attempt. So, they have to contact the 20 week. 20 Regional Duty Officer. That's their 21 : I don't understand what you 21 notification. They make the Regional Duty 22 mean. 22 Officer, and then it moves up the chain that 23 MS. : So, do you have an 23 way, and then I have to make my notifications, 24 understanding of whether, because the duty 24 which I make my notifications to the Regional 25 Officers are not present in the SHU meeting; 2S Director. EFTA00064531 53 54 1 MS. : Okay. And my question is, 1 whoever, you know, if the Warden is there, 2 does any information, do you have an 2 initiate it to the AW. So, that would be 3 understanding of whether any information that's 3 something immediate that she would say, hey, 4 conveyed in these SHU meetings gets briefed 4 he's on watch and this happened. S down to the line Officers who are responsible S MS. : And what happened at that 6 for patrollin the SHU? first SHU meeting after the suicide attempt? 7 : Right. 7 : The week of July 22nd to the 8 VS. : It does? 8 26th, I was on leave. 9 : Yeah. The SHU Lieutenant is 9 MS. 10 there, and he's in the meeting, he or she is in 10 : So, I Okay.was, you know, I was 11 the meeting, and they're talking to their staff 11 getting called. So, I don't know the 12 on what needs to be done or the status, you 12 specifics, but I was aware of, you know, I got 13 know. We're going in and we determine if 13 called that hey, there was an attempt and the 14 somebody can be released, then that will be 14 protocols were followed. 15 conveyed back that hey, an individual can be 15 MS. : Okay. 16 released. 16 : Notifications were made. 17 MS. : So, you were saying that 17 MS. : Okay. So, the following 18 after the July 23rd suicide attempt, there was a 18 week which I think is the week of the 29th. 19 Thursda SHU meeting? 19 The 29th or the 30th, yeah. 20 : Right. 20 MS. : You were back in the 21 MS. : In which Dr. 21 office? 22 discussed at least her initial observations of 22 : That Monday. So, if you 23 Mr. E stein? 23 have a calendar I can look at it. 24 : Well, she would initially 24 MS. _: I think it's the 29th -- 25 discuss it there, but she would also initially, 25 : So, yeah. So, the 29th is a 55 56 1 Monday. I have to check, did I take a extra 1 And then there were certain exams that we 2 day or not? I'm not sure, but the 29th, I 2 had to do that we wanted to get done on him. 3 should've. I would've been back. 3 And then we discussed that. 4 MS. : So, that Thursday meeting 4 MS. : Uh, what kind of exams? 5 which looks like would've been August 1st, you S : Physicals and then, you 6 were resent at? know, and I don't know if that was before or 7 : Yes. 7 after his sleep apnea machine that he was, you 8 MS. : And what was discussed 8 know, re uestin 9 durin the SHU meeting? 9 MS. : Um-hum. 10 : The SHU meeting, we'll 10 Because typically, you know, 11 discuss every inmate. Every inmate on the 11 you have to go through the fitting and the 12 list, what's their status? Updates and all 12 process, but, you know, we allowed that one to 13 that stuff. 13 come in. We checked it, security wise, and 14 MS. : Okay. And specifically 14 said it was fine to come in, and we got it. 15 with res ect to Epstein, what was discussed? 15 So, I think we might have been discussing that, 16 : I don't recall specifically. 16 more along those lines. 17 I know we would've talked about him. We 17 But we discuss every inmate in there. I 18 would've probably talked about, you know, his 18 don't specifically remember it. I know we 19 psychological status and I got to remember on 19 would've talked about what the issues were 20 the first, he was probably back in the Special 20 pertainin to him. 21 Housing Unit. So, we were probably, you know, 21 MS. : Um, let's go back to -- 22 talking about his housing conditions, what's he 22 : Um-hum. 23 doing, and usually the conversation was during 23 -- the suicide attempt. 24 the day he was down at the attorney visits, you 24 Okay. 25 know? 25 : You said that you were on EFTA00064532 57 58 1 leave that week, but you were notified by your 1 : I believe just the basics, 2 Associate Warden? 2 you know. Keep him updated what's going on 3 Associate Warden, yes. 3 because at the time he was under psychology's 4 MS. : Okay. Were you receiving 4 care. daily u dates? 5 MS. . Um-hum. 6 : Not, I mean, they called me 6 : So, once they're in that, 7 during the day the first time that it happened. 7 there's really not that much input to go on 8 Hey, this is what happened. He's on watch. 8 because they're on watch. 9 And then the next day, you know, he was still 9 MS. : And then Epstein was 10 on watch. So, there was really no, I didn't 10 downgraded from suicide watch to psyche 11 need that much updates because we knew he was 11 observation. 12 on watch. 12 : Psyche observation. 13 MS. : Okay. 13 MS. : While he was still on the 14 Um -- 14 second floor? 15 MS. : And you notified your 15 Yes. 16 Regional Director? 16 MS. : Were you notified of that 17 : I notified my Regional 17 change? 18 Director. And then while I was on leave, my 18 : Yes, that he was on psyche 19 Regional Director was also in contact with my 19 obs. 20 acting AW. 20 MS. : Okay. And did you discuss 21 MS. : Did the -- 21 that with Dr. at all? 22 Acting Warden, I'm sorry. 22 : Yeah. We talked about it. 23 MS. : Did the Regional Director 23 Again, it was, you know, him going back up to 24 convey any directions to your AW during that 24 the Special Housing Unit. Although he wasn't 25 time? 25 suicidal, it was just a matter of, okay, who 59 60 1 are we goin to house him with? 1 : No. I don't review any 2 MS. Um-hum. 2 medical files. 3 : You know, coming to that 3 MS. : And he came back to the 4 decision and then that would give her more time 4 SHU on the 30th, is that right? 5 to work with him if she needed. S Uh, yes. 6 MS. : 212L Did you have a : Okay. 7 discussion with Dr. 'I'll' about whether she 7 Um-hum. 8 felt he was still suicidal? 8 MS. : And what discussions did 9 : Again, if the psychologist 9 you have, let's start with Dr. , about 10 tells me that he's ready and he goes, I don't 10 the conditions of his confinement in the SHU? 11 question medical judgment. I trust her 11 : She just said to get him in, 12 judgement. If she says he's not suicidal and 12 you know, we're going to put him, get him a 13 he's ready to go back, then we trust her 13 cellmate because typically every inmate that, 14 judgment. 14 you know, is on suicide or whatever, we say, 15 YS. : And she did -- 15 okay, we're going to give him a cellmate. So, 16 : Because she -- 16 that was when we went through the process of 17 MS. -- tell you that? 17 figuring out, okay, who could we possibly put 18 : She said he was ready to go 18 him in with? Um, the pickin s were slim. 19 back. He wasn't suicidal and that he was ready 19 So, I came u with , and no 20 to go back. 20 wait, no. , he had been ut down 21 MS. : Did you review any of her 21 there ori ecause of 22 reports or the sychologist's reports -- 22 VS. _: Um-hum. 23 I don't -- 23 : So, what happened was, we 24 VS. -- during the time he was 24 had to come up with some more inmates. So, I 25 on the second floor? 25 came up with three. It was, I believe, EFTA00064533 61 62 1 and who was the other one? We had 1 MS. : Did you tell Mr. 2 another sex offender in there that we were 2 that he needed to have a cellmate? 3 going to put him in there, and he said, "If he 3 : Yes. That's what the 4 comes in here, it's going to be a problem." 4 discussion was, for a cellmate. So, I sent 5 So, we didn't put him in there. that up, spoke with my Regional Director. I 6 So, we ended up putting in there. 6 believe he received it too, and came to the 7 MS. : Um-hum. conclusion would probably be the best fit 8 , an older gentleman. 8 for him. So, we put him in the cell with 9 He couldn't be in the institution because it 9 10 was cooperating, so we figured that was a good 10 MS. : Is there a policy about 11 fit, and then I sent an email of the three to 11 whether an inmate needs to have a cellmate 12 the Director's Chief of Staff I sent an email 12 after the 've been taken off of suicide watch? 13 to. 13 : There's no policy, but it's 14 MS. And what is his name? 14 sound correctional judgment. I mean even if an 15 (phonetic 15 individual is not on suicide watch, and you're 16 sp.). 16 in the Special Housing Unit, you typically want 17 MS. : Okay. And so you emailed 17 somebody in there with them. 18 him, here are the three -- 18 MS. Um-hum. 19 : Here are the three -- 19 : Because, I mean, you never 20 -- possible -- 20 know what could happen. So, just for somebody 21 -- possible ones. 21 to talk to, you know, pass the time. So, you 22 : Okay. 22 typically put somebody in there unless again 23 Right. 23 we're in a situation where they're just totally 24 Did ou tell 24 separated from somebody -- 25 25 MS. : Um-hum. 63 64 1 : -- and we can't put them in 1 call him to tell him. 2 there because it becomes a life safety issue. 2 : You called the Regional 3 MS. : How long after someone is 3 Director? 4 taken off suicide watch would you typically 4 Yes. 5 direct that the have a cellmate? 5 -- while on leave to 6 : It would depend on the 6 notify him? Did you notify anybody else of the 7 situation, because you could be getting 23rd incident? 8 released to a unit where you would 8 • : No, I called my boss, and -- 9 automatically have a cellmate going through, or 9 : Okay. 10 you know, direction could put out that, hey, 10 : Yeah. 11 make sure the individual has a cellmate. 11 : And that is, via the 12 So, there's no really timeframe on when 12 policy and your responsibilities, as a BOP 13 you would decide that. 13 policy and your responsibility as a Warden, is 14 : lust to clarify, as it 14 there anybody else that you were supposed to 15 relates to, I know you guys just discussed 15 notif ? 16 this, but just making sure I'm following you 16 No. 17 guys correctly. As it relates to the first 17 : Okay. 18 suicide attem t back on July 23rd, Mr. Epstein. 18 No. 19 : Right. 19 : And your staff was 20 : You were on leave. 20 notified because they were working in the 21 : Yeah, the 22nd. 21 institution; correct? 22 : You were notified via 22 lin Which staff? 23 telephone of this, and you notified the 23 : Your Assistant Warden, who 24 Regional Director. Is that correct? 24 25 : Yeah, of the, yeah, I did 25 : Yeah. She was the Acting EFTA00064534 65 66 1 Warden, so she -- 1 suicide watch to psychological observation. 2 : Acting Warden. 2 Yes. 3 : Yeah. 3 : Did you notify anybody of 4 : Who was that? 4 that? 5 : At the time, I believe it S : Um, I might've called my 6 was (phonetic sp.). boss to let him know that, hey, he's been 7 Yeah, she was Active Warden. 7 downgraded off of suicide watch. 8 : Okay. Do you happen to 8 Okay. 9 know if she notified anybody? 9 In Yeah. 10 : She would've notified the 10 : You don't recall 11 Region also. 11 specifically calling? 12 : Okay. 12 No, I don't. 13 NW And she would've notified 13 : Okay. 14 the re ion but she was just calling me -- 14 But I probably would've 15 : Okay. 15 notified him. 16 : -- just to let me know like, 16 : Okay. Did you recall 17 hey, this is what's going on. 17 notifying anybody specifically about that 18 : Okay. And back when, a 18 downgrade? 19 few days later when Epstein was removed from 19 li What, as far as him? 20 suicide watch to psyche observation -- 20 : Yep. 21 : Um-hum. 21 p No, I don't recall, but it 22 : -- were you notified of 22 would've been my boss telling me -- 23 that chap e? 23 Okay. 24 : That he was being moved? 24 Srobablill hey, we moved him from -- 25 : lust downgraded from 25 suicide watch down to -- 67 68 1 MS. : And that's the Regional 1 process, notifying, hey, he's coming off watch. 2 Director? 2 He's oin to the Special Housing Unit. 3 : That's the Regional 3 : Um-hum. 4 Director. 4 : And he's going to get a S MS. : And what's his name? 5 roommate. 6 6 : Other than your Regional 7 : And then a few days later 7 Director did ou notify anybody else? when he was removed from observation and placed 8 That he was coming off -- 9 back in Special Housing Unit, you were notified 9 : Yes. 10 of that? Were ou notified of that? 10 -- or talk about it? 11 Oh, yes. 11 : Yep. 12 : Did you notify anybody of 12 Yeah. My exec staff. 13 that? 13 : Okay. 14 : When he was removed and 14 • And said that, you know, 15 placed back in the -- 15 what the expectation was that, you know, he's 16 Yes. 16 going to have a cellmate. 17 EMI -- Special Housing? Yeah, I 17 : So, you told, during that 18 let my supervisor know that that was the plan. 18 meetin do ou recall when that meeting was? 19 : Okay. 19 : I don't recall when the 20 : He was moving him, because 20 meeting was, but I just told them, hey, he 21 remember we had to get him -- 21 needs to have a cellmate. This is his 22 Um-hum. 22 cellmate. Cellmate at all times. And, you 23 24 25 . -- a roommate. : Right. So, that was the whole 23 know, ut it out to your -- 24 25 MS. : Okay. Um -- : Put it out to your people? EFTA00064535 69 70 1 : To the departments and your 1 to be the plan that was going to be moved 2 areas of responsibility on that's how he was 2 in with him. He was going to have a cellmate, 3 going to be housed. 3 and that was the protocol we were going to 4 MS. : And who did you 4 follow. specificall tell that to? 5 MS. : Did confirm that he 6 : My Associate Wardens were in 6 would tell his Lieutenants, or his -- 7 there, whoever was acting, the Captain because 7 : He confirmed. I followed up 8 that specificall falls under his area. 8 and asked him, did you put it out to the 9 MS. : Um-hum. 9 Lieutenants and staff working, and he told me 10 a : The Special Housing Unit. I 10 yes. 11 told him specifically he needs to be housed 11 MS. : And was that before 12 alone. I informed his Lieutenant, you know, 12 Epstein, his confirmation, did that come before 13 and his offices and basically on each shift, 13 Epstein was moved back to the SHU, or around 14 just be mindful, you know, of making rounds and 14 the first da he was in the SHU? 15 just not for him just for everybody. 15 : No before. I had the 16 MS. • And what's the Captain's 16 conversation with him, and then I followed up 17 name? 17 afterwards and said, "Hey, did you disseminate 18 18 the information?" And he said, "Everything was 19 . Okay. 19 disseminated." 20 : Um-hum. 20 But it wasn't just a one-day thing. It 21 MS. : Did you tell Captain 21 was a constant, I told him, a constant follow 22 this before Epstein was moved back to 22 up, you know? Make sure that, you know, these 23 the SHU? 23 protocols are being followed. 24 : Yeah. We had a meeting, and 24 MS. : How man times do you 25 I got together and I said, hey, this was going 25 recall telling Captain that, between 71 72 1 when Epstein went back to the SHU -- 1 : You came up with three 2 : Um-hum. 2 possible -- 3 -- and then his suicide? 3 IMi Right. 4 : I don't recall the number of 4 -- roommates for him, and S times, but it was just a conversation S with that list, did you brief that up the chain constantly reminding that let's be vigilant on 6 for a royal or where did that go that list? 7 just not him, but everybody in the Special 7 : I sent it to, I made my boss 8 Housing Unit. 8 aware of it. 9 MS. 10 Once? Twice? 11 : Could you estimate daily? : I wouldn't say daily. I 9 10 =I Okay. And then I sent it to the 11 Chief of Staff in the Director's office. So, I 12 would say, I don't have an actual number. I 12 don't know what conversations -- 13 don't want to say an actual number, but you 14 know, if I did encounter, or I made rounds in 15 the unit, I would, you know, tell staff up 13 14 15 Um -- 1.1 Sure. -- took place above that. 16 there, you know, be vigilant with your 16 Okay. 17 protocol. 18 So, I don't know the specific amount of 19 time. I make my rounds once a week at a 20 minimum, but, you know, sometimes it's more. 17 18 M: I just know about -- : You briefed it up the 19 chain. You briefed your suggestions up the 20 chain. 21 Sometimes it's less. 21 I went up the chain. 22 : When it comes to the 22 : And there was, were there 23 ability, so you specifigjly go back to, what 23 any ob'ections to that list? 24 you said earlier about IIIII. 24 : I gave the three possibles - 25 : Right. 25 EFTA00064536 73 74 1 : Um-hum. 1 Yep. 2 NM -- but you know, one I had 2 -- which wasn't too many. I 3 was a 26-year-old drug dealer I know he, and he 3 mean, he had to have a cellmate, and the 4 was still in there, and I was like although he 4 options weren't ood. was se arated, I list didn't -- : Are staff in the Special 6 7 IS : Um-hum. -- feel that he could, you 8 know, he might, somebody could convince him to 9 do something. So, he didn't, I didn't feel 6 Housing Unit allowed to assign cellmates 7 arbitrarily or on their own without consulting 8 a Captain, Lieutenant, or yourself 9 (Indiscernible *00:46:26). 10 comfortable with him, and I forget the other 10 : Yeah, the offices on their 11 one. And I think the other one might've been 11 own can, you know, if they have to move 12 somebody that was going to be releasing soon. 12 somebody around can move somebody around based 13 : Okay. 13 on they know who can be housed with who. If 14 So, I took in the factors 14 somebody's separation, they know who's 15 15 separated from an individual. So, they can do 16 : Um-hum. 16 that. -- and second when he 17 18 checked himself in and feeling that he was 19 going to be lon -term. 17 18 =, 19 doing that. Okay. I mean, they're capable of 20 : Okay. That, so you made 20 Okay. As it relates, talk 21 special care and consideration in picking 21 about a little bit. 22 Epstein's roormate, cellmate? 22 Right. 23 Based on the -- 23 He's no longer in MCC; 24 25 al : Yep. -- options I had -- : When was he released from 75 24 25 correct? Right. Uh -- 76 1 1 2 the facilit ? 2 : Prior to, you had, you 3 : He was released, I believe, 3 were very active in making sure that Epstein 4 on Frida . 4 had an a ro riate cellmate? S : Okay. Was he transferred S : Right. 6 out? Was he released from custody? Under what 6 : What were you, leading up 7 conditions do ou know? 7 to the last week Friday, what were you aware of 8 : From what I understand, it 8 , any court proceedings or any issues or 9 was with all belongings. So, I don't -- 9 concerns about him leaving the MCC? 10 : Okay. 10 : I was off on Friday. 11 -- who took him. You can't, 11 : Okay. 12 I mean, even if you look on Sentry, you don't 12 : So, I didn't know anything 13 know where he was -- 13 about his courtproceedings -- 14 : Um-hum. 14 : Okay. 15 -- but when we looked at him 15 -- or whatever. I just know 16 originally, it still showed that he was going 16 this from after the fact. 17 to court. 17 : Okay. When it comes to 18 : Okay. 18 , the staff in the Special Housing Unit, 19 MIW So, that he was going to be 19 how do they get notified of court dates, of the 20 long-term. Now it's just shoiiiiithere's no 20 probability of someone being released from the 21 DST. So, I don't know where is. 21 facilit ? How does that process work? 22 : Okay. But he's not in 22 : They get a call from 23 MCC? 23 receivin it's called receiving and discharge. 24 : No, he's not in MCC. 24 : Okay. 25 : Okay. 25 : Where the inmates are EFTA00064537 77 78 1 processed in and processed out. So, they get 1 been alone. 2 notification that hey, such and such is 2 : Was there anybody in the 3 leavin and send him down. 3 Special Housing Unit that was already vetted to 4 : Okay. Does the MCC 4 room with, or cell with Epstein? S usually, or sometimes, what's the, how often or S : No. Because again, didn't 6 frequently does the MCC get advanced notice of anticipate leaving -- 7 an inmate leavin ? 7 : Okay. 8 : It depends. If the 8 • -- like that. But we 9 inmate's desi nated -- 9 would've gotten somebody in there temporarily. 10 : Um-hum. 10 : When did you first become 11 . -- then we know in advance 11 aware of leaving the MCC? 12 he's designated. But usually the Marshalls 12 : After the death of Mr. 13 will come and say, whoever is picking him up, 13 Epstein. 14 "Hey, we're taking such and such." We might 15 get a list ahead of time if somebody's going to 16 maybe one of the county facilities or some they 14 15 NW Okay. Um, when I came, you know, 16 that was like my first question was like, where 17 just come and sa , "Hey, we need this guy." 17 is his cellmate? 18 : Okay. Ultimately Friday, 18 Okay. 19 the 9th is discharged. 19 I was told he was gone. 20 : Um-hum. 20 IZ : When were you first 21 : Leaving Epstein, actually 21 notified of the death of Epstein? 22 let's talk about without a cellmate. Was there 22 : I got a call about 6:50 and 23 a plan in lace if that were to happen? 23 told me that r he -- 24 : We'd review it and say, 24 Okay. 25 okay, who can he be with? But he wouldn't have 25 M -- that he attempted suicide 79 80 1 and they were going through life-saving 1 was like, okay. Where are they at? Is EMS 2 measures. 2 coming in? She said she didn't have that much 3 : And who contacted you? 3 information because the Lieutenant was down 4 : My Associate Warden, 4 with Epstein performing life-saving measures. S 5 So, that's when I came in. 6 : When did you start asking 7 : Yes. 7 questions about . On the phone or when 8 Uh -- 8 you arrived at the facility? 9 : Was she at the scene? 9 : So, when I got there, I was 10 : No, she wasn't. The 10 like, where is the cellmate. 11 Lieutenant had called the Captain. The Captain 11 : Um-hum. 12 called her, and then she called me. 12 =, I asked the Lieutenant, like 13 MS. : And is it Lieutenant IIII, 13 where is his cellmate, and Lieutenant said, "I 14 is that it? 14 asked the same question when I went down and, 15 : Lieutenant IIII was the 15 you know, started." He asked the officer, 16 Operations Lieutenant. 16 "Where's his cellmate?" 17 : Would you mind, in that 17 And, you know, just couldn't, you know, he 18 conversation, would you mind just telling us 18 was disoriented and told me he had said that. 19 about that conversation? 19 So, that's when we started you know, started 20 : She told me Epstein, they 20 the process of where's IIIII? 21 found him in his cell. They had a 21 : Just for timeline 22 defibrillator on him and that they were working 22 purposes about what time did you arrive? 23 on him. 23 IS I got there about 7:30. 24 25 NW Okay. And when she told me that, I 24 : Okay. Who within the 25 Special Housing Unit would've had the ability EFTA00064538 81 82 1 or who within the Special Housing Unit would've 1 Um-hum. 2 had the ability or the authority to back-fill 2 -- when I told them about 3 ' spot as Epstein's cellmate? 3 the ex ectations. 4 : Well what would've happened, 4 Yep. which was instructed to them, was -- : All that was Epstein needs a 7 1.1 Okay. -- they would've told the 8 Lieutenant or Captain, hey, , I mean 6 cellmate. 7 8 Mr Yep. And he's to be having a 9 Epstein needs a cellmate. And then we would've 9 cellmate at all times. If he doesn't, then 10 started the process of getting him a cellmate. 10 they need to notify you and then you can push 11 Because when, and this was Epstein's routine. 11 it up. 12 He got up early in the morning at 8, and he 12 : So, you told the Captain - 13 didn't come back to his cell until about 7:30 13 14 at niiiiiirom his attorney visits. 14 : I told the Captain 15 left in the morning. So, he doesn't 15 specificall that. 16 come back to his cell until in the evening, 16 : Okay. And the Captain was 17 which on that particular day, he got back 17 to tell his, helm him. 18 about, from what I understand, around 6:45. 18 : He conveyed it to the 19 : Okay. 19 Lieutenant, to the Officers, and disseminated 20 : Yeah. 20 it out. 21 : You said that they were 21 : Okay. So, he should've 22 instructed to notify that Epstein needed a 22 been notified. How should the notification 23 cellmate? 23 have worked? 24 : So, the Captain, as I told 24 When he -- 25 you before -- 25 -- when , realized 83 84 1 that was dismissed? 1 : Um-hum. 2 : The Officers should've 2 -- and if they say WAB, it's 3 called the Lieutenant -- 3 with all below in s. 4 : Which Officers? 4 : Okay. S 6 7 • 8 Officers. : The ones working the unit? : The Special Housing Unit? : The Special Housing Unit S : So, they more than likely 6 just took his stuff -- 7 8 : Um-hum. -- and then whatever he had 9 10 =I 11 packed u . The -- Okay. Because they know that he 9 in his cell, and if he had something in the 10 property room, they might've gone to get it. 11 Or if they didn't, then we would somewhere down 12 13 IS 14 they is Okay. : So, once he gets packed up, 12 the line ship it to wherever his destination 13 is. 14 : Is the staff that's 15 Okay. 15 packing up ' belongings different than the 16 : They should've known, hey, 16 Correctional Officers? 17 let me notify and move it up the chain, Epstein 17 ' property would've 18 doesn't have a cellmate. 18 been stored u in our Special Housing Unit. 19 : How does ' belongings 19 : Right. 20 get packed u ? Who does that? 20 : And then it would've been 21 : When the staff in SHU pack 21 taken by our Special Housing Unit staff to our 22 up his stuff. 22 receivin and discharge center. 23 : Okay. So, the staff in 23 : Is that staff, when you 24 SHU would -- 24 say "staff", is that a different responsibility 25 : They'll come to the door -- 25 than being a Correctional Officer? EFTA00064539 85 86 1 : Well we're all, we're all 1 all of his belongings. Now I don't know if he 2 correctional workers 2 has some property still in the property room. 3 Okay. 3 But whatever was in his cell, they would've 4 -- but their department is, 4 gathered and taken down. S you know, the receiving and discharge -- S : So, the Officers that are : Um-hum. 6 in the Special Housing Unit either would have 7 -- of inmates. 7 actively participated or observed 8 : Okay. 8 belongings bein packed up and leaving? 9 So, that's where you process 9 : Right, and taken. And 10 in -- 10 again I don't know where went. 11 12 lir -- Got you. or process out. So, they 13 would take the stuff down to them. They'd 11 12 a: 13 court. Sure. I don't know if he went to 14 process in and rocess out. 14 Um-hum. 15 : Okay. So, these are 16 people that are different, have different 17 responsibilities than, okay. 18 19 Right. : I got it. The Special House -- 15 16 17 . 18 all belon in s. 19 I don't know -- : Right. -- but the terminology with : Sure. So, he was being -- 20 20 21 : Thank you for -- 21 : Is there any documentation 22 MS. : But the Officers in the 22 or reports about when ' belongings would 23 SHU would have been responsible for packing up 23 have been collected from Special Housing Unit? 24 ' belon i s? 24 : I wouldn't say belongings, 25 : Right. They would've taken 25 but there would be something showing that he 87 88 1 was de arted the institution. 1 Lieutenant happened to be off that day. 2 : Okay. And that would be 2 : Um-hum. 3 in the s stem somewhere? 3 • And then it goes up the 4 : Uh, yeah. They would be 4 chain to notify somebody that he doesn't have a S receipts, but our receiving and discharge would S cellmate. have that. : Okay. 7 Okay. 7 MS. : So, the SHU Lieutenant was 8 And it will also show in 8 off that day, ou said? 9 Sentry, which we use to track on when he was 9 • He was off that day of -- 10 keyed out. 10 : And which SHU was that? 11 Okay. So, just to recap. 11 Huh? It was the Lieutenant 12 Um-hum. 12 at the time was 13 The Officers that were 13 MS. ' . 14 working in the Special Housing Unit would've 14 UhI'll , Lieutenant IIII. 15 observed ' belongings leaving. They were 15 MS. : So, who was the Acting 16 instructed via the Captain through your orders 16 Supervisor? 17 that if Epstein was to have a cellmate at all 17 • We didn't, well the 18 times. 18 Operations, if we don't have a SHU Lieutenant 19 At all times. 19 on duty, the Operations Lieutenant is the 20 : And that if that wasn't, 20 Lieutenant that would come up, make rounds, and 21 you know, supposed to be briefed up to the 21 (Indiscernible *00:57:40). 22 Captain and then ultimately to you. Is that 22 MS. : Okay. And who was that on 23 correct? 23 Frida ? 24 : Right. The Lieutenant, if 24 : I don't recall. I have to 25 the SHU Lieutenant was working, the SHU 25 look at the roster. EFTA00064540 89 90 1 : Okay. Let's talk a little 1 Officer, and the Officer told him he had 2 bit about staffing that day. 2 notified them as to that, you know, Epstein 3 :Okg.__ 3 needed a Bunkie. II 4 4 MS. : Okay. And who -- 5 : Well, can I -- MI E Um -- 6 Yes. 6 MS. : -- asked the Officer to -- say one thing? 7 put that in writing? 8 : Of course. 8 : Uh, Lieutenant He 9 : I sent a memorandum to, did 9 had told him to ut it in writing. 10 he give it to ou? ? 10 : Just for, uh, 11 : On? 11 (Indiscernible *00:58:59) if I may just -- 12 Well, I got a memorandum 12 MS. : Yeah. 13 this mornin 13 -- read it so we're on the 14 MS. : This morning, yes. 14 same 15 : About the offices saying 15 Um-hum. 16 that they knew that he left and when he left he 16 So, we have a memo dated 17 told the evening watch guy that Epstein needed 17 August 12, 2019 to the Warden from -- 18 a cellmate. 18 phonetic sp.) I -- 19 MS. : Do you know why that's 19 7 20 dated toda ? 20 : Yeah. 21 : Because when I came in this 21 22 morning, one of my Lieutenants came in and I 22 Um-hum. 23 asked him, I said, "Hey, have you heard 23 : And the subject is, Past 24 anything about what went on on Friday?" And 24 Information from Special Housing Units. 25 that's when he told me he had talked to the 25 : Um-hum. 91 92 1 1 staffing? Like what percentage are you, would 2 2 you sa ? 3 : Was suggested, was told by 3 : I believe we're in our low 4 to write this memo? 4 80s, high 70s. I'd have to look at the : Yes. staffin or whatever. 6 : Okay. And the memo, just 6 But somewhere around 80%. 7 7 : Right, but it doesn't only, 8 MS. : I don't think you need to 8 that's not the only issue. The only issue -- 9 (Indiscernible *00:59:26). 9 Sure. 10 : Okay, yep. Just -- 10 -- is like we, let's say 11 Yeah. 11 we're staffed to 80%, we've got about 30 people 12 -- thanks. Just making 12 that we can't use. Either they're on Workman's 13 sure we're on -- 13 Comp. They're on AWOL status. You name it, we 14 MS. : I appreciate that, yeah. 14 have it. But the problem is, it takes a while 15 : Overall staffing at MCC, 15 to go through that process to remove an 16 if we can just go down that road for right now. 16 employee. 17 Where, are you guys at full staff? Where are 17 So, we can't just hire when you have a 18 you in terms of staffing levels? 18 bunch of people like that on you. So, that's 19 We're understaffed. 19 where we're at. 20 21 . : Okay. So, we're starting the 22 hiring process right now, but we do have to, 23 you know, there's some posts that we can't 20 : Okay. So, how do you as a 21 Warden and as an institution compensate for 22 being 20% understaffed? 23 : Well, I mean everyone has to 24 fill. But -- 24 chip in. I mean, we're not like the state 25 : Where are you in terms of 25 where you have your Correctional workers and EFTA00064541 93 94 1 you have the contractor workers. Everyone, 1 escorted trips. You could work the housing 2 despite the fact that you might have a 2 unit. The only ones who probably are exempt 3 different job title, you know how to perform 3 from that are doctors and attorneys and 4 the functions of a Correctional Officer. You 4 psychologists, the professionals. But everyone S have to qualify with weapons every year. You else, 6 take training on working the housing units, and 6 : And where do the 7 the majority of them weren't hired off the 7 Correctional workers receive this training? 8 street as into their positions. There might be 8 : Well initially you go to 9 a few. But the majority were Correctional 9 Glencoe. 10 Officers and then promoted into the different 11 positions. 12 So, we have annual refresher training 10 11 =I 12 trainin Okay. Everyone goes to Glencoe for 13 every year where we train and move on like 13 : Um-hum. 14 that. But that's just not, it's not their 14 : And then specialized 15 primary discipline, being a Correctional 15 training, we have annual refresher training 16 Officer. 16 every year where we re-qualify and go over 17 : You said all staff are 17 certain correctional topics. 18 trained as Corrections Officers? 18 : Okay. Let me ask you 19 : The terminology is you're 19 about some specific people. 20 Correctional workers. 20 Okay. 21 : Okay. 21 : If you happen to know if 22 Eir So, you know haw to perform 22 they, what their primary duties are. Mi 23 the functions of a Correctional Officer. 23 Okay. 24 : Okay. 24 : Michael Thomas? 25 MIN Carry firearms. You can do 25 : He's a material handler 95 96 1 foreman. 1 • What they do is since he 2 • : What is a material 2 works in that department, we might, if we need 3 handler? 3 him during the daytime, assign him over to the 4 : They work in the warehouse. 4 department. But he does overtime. He was S So, in the warehouse, it has several functions. 5 working overtime then. So, we have a lot of You either work in the commissary which the 6 overtime. So, individuals in other departments 7 inmates shop for food. He can work in the 7 work the overtime. 8 laundry where you do that, or you work in the 8 : Is that something they can 9 warehouse where ou're processing -- 9 do voluntarily, or are they told to do that? 10 Um-hum. 10 How does that work? 11 -- in stuff. What's the 11 : We have a volunteer list for 12 other one? We also have an outside warehouse 12 the individuals that don't work in the 13 where we take deliveries. So, that's our, and 13 department. 14 it's under our trust fund department. 14 : Okay. 15 : Okay. And the night of 15 If you're a Correctional 16 ust 10th -- 16 Officer, we have what's called a mandation 17 Right. 17 list. So, if we call around and I say, "Hey, 18 -- do you happen to know 18 we need somebody to work this", and everyone 19 if Mr. Thompson was working as a Correctional 19 turns it down and says, "No, I don't want to 20 Officer in that primary responsibility? 20 work it" then we go to the mandation list. 21 : He was one of the Officers 21 : Okay. 22 in the S ecial Housing Unit. 22 : Which is you're next up to 23 : Okay. Do you know how 23 be mandated to work a post. 24 often he works as a Correction, his 24 : Okay. Um -- 25 responsibility as an Officer? 25 MS. : Was he mandated that EFTA00064542 97 98 1 night? 1 Officer. 2 : I believe he wasn't. He 2 : She's a Corrections 3 wouldn't be mandated because he works as a 3 Officer? 4 material handler foreman. 4 Corrections Officer. S MS. : Got it. S : Okay. Do you happen to So, he signed up for it. know if she was working overtime or her regular 7 : Okay. 7 shift that da ? 8 Yeah. 8 : I'm not sure. I think it 9 So, just to clarify, the 9 might've been (Indiscernible *01:04:52). I'm 10 Correctional Officers or only the Officers are 10 not sure. I think her regular, I'm not sure. 11 on the mandated list? 12 13 Right. : The rest of Correctional 11 12 11.1 Okay. Her regular shift was 13 evenin watch, and then she did it. So -- 14 workers have the opportunity to volunteer for 14 Okay. 15 overtime? 15 MS. : Does she typically work in 16 : Right. You volunteer for 16 the SHU? 17 overtime. 17 : Uh, yes. She's been 18 Okay. 18 (Indiscernible *01:05:01). 19 1.1 Or during the daytime, I can 19 MS. 20 say, "Look I need to fill these posts. I need 20 : AndOkay. I don't know if that was 21 you to come from your department to work over 21 her assigned quarterly post, but I do believe 22 in Correctional services." 22 it is. 23 : Okay. Toba Noel (phonetic 23 : Captain 2 24 25 sp.). : Uh, is a Correctional 99 24 25 ME He's the Ca tain. ? 100 . 1 He's an 1 It's voluntary. 2 Officer. 2 : Okay. 3 an Officer? 3 And then it's, like you 4 : 4 said, the rison business is 24 hours. 5 5 Um-hum. 6 : He's an Officer. 6 : We don't have the luxury to 7 7 turn around and say we can't fill a post. Now 8 : He's an Officer. 8 I might have a post that might require, you 9 (phonetic 9 know, X amount of people, but I have to staff 10 sp.)? 10 it at a minimum where we're safe coming and 11 : She is the psychologist. 11 going. : Okay. So, the only one, Um-hum. 12 13 the only one, Michael Thomas, is the only one 14 who's rimar responsibilit is not an Officer? 12 13 WI So, there's really no set 14 amount. I mean, depending, you know, I've been 15 : And Dr. 15 here, when I first got here where our staffing 16 : Doctor, yep. Okay, great. 16 was really bad where people were doing four a 17 MS. : Are you notified when a 17 week. 18 Corrections Officer is mandated to work 18 When you say -- 19 overtime? Who makes that decision? 19 You know? 20 : The Lieutenant on shift 20 Iff -- "four a week", what is 21 handles that. 21 22 : What are the rules, or any 23 policies in terms of overtime? Is there a 24 limit? Is there, how does the overtime work? 22 23 In Four overtimes a week. : Now is, when you say, what 24 is an overtime? Is that like another 8-hour 25 Is there a cap in terms of hours a week? 25 shift? EFTA00064543 101 102 1 II Another 8-hour shift. 1 You can't, you're not like a fireman where, you 2 : Okay. So, you -- 2 know, ou're on duty 24 hours in. 3 I So, it depends on, you know, 3 Okay. 4 the number of people we have, those 4 : SO, there's a limit on the S volunteering. So, right now we're in the S daily. hiring process where we are getting, you know, 6 Okay. 7 bodies to fill in these positions. 7 That you can do. 8 : So, an overtime shift is 8 . : But there's no limit on 9 eight additional hours? 9 how many days in a row you can work those 16 10 : Eight additional hours. 10 hours? 11 : Okay. Is there any -- 11 No. If somebody wants to, 12 : Go ahead. 12 they could. 13 -- is there any limit on 13 : Do you have any unofficial 14 how many 16-hour days a week an employee can 14 or an guidance on that front? 15 work? 15 : No, not really, because I 16 : You just can't exceed the 16 mean you have some people that sign up for 17 amount of 16 hours in a day. 17 overtime. 18 : Could you explain that for 18 : Got you. 19 me? 20 21 22 23 that is 24 a : Okay. You work eight hours. : Right. : You can only work 16 hours Okay. 19 20 21 22 know eo le's financial situations. 23 24 1111 : You know? They say -- : Um-hum. -- hey, they might, I don't Right. But they might say, hey, you 25 : You can't work 24 hours. 25 know, I need to get some extra money -- 103 104 1 Yeah. 1 it's your Friday. You won't get mandated on a 2 1.1 -- for X, Y and Z. So, I 2 Friday because Federal Law states you have to 3 don't know the specifics -- 3 have X amount of hours off during the week. 4 : Okay. 4 : Okay. S - on why somebody would. S =I In conjunction to days off. : You know I had a previous 6 So, Indiscernible *01:08:57). 7 job where my supervisor wouldn't let us work 21 7 : So, the most 16-hour days 8 days in a row. We had to take that 22nd day 8 an employee can work is five, so they have two 9 off. 9 days off? 10 In Right. 10 : Well not necessarily, 11 : Do you guys have anything 11 because you could say hey I want to work on my 12 unofficial like that that -- 12 days off. 13 : Well they have their two 13 : Okay. So, you can come in 14 days off. 14 on your da s off then? 15 16 1.1 17 So -- Okay. So, you get two days off. 15 16 voluntar 17 : On your days off. That's Okay. 18 Is that -- 18 I can't just turn around -- 19 20 I. --and that -- : Is it required that they 21 take those two days? 22 : Yeah. You take your two 19 20 21 but if 22 : Sure. -- and say you have to stay Okay. 23 days. What you choose to do with those two 23 Um -- 24 days is your business. But we don't, like if 24 Okay. Anything on the 25 someone, it has to be an emergency. Let's say 25 overtime? EFTA00064544 105 106 1 MS. No. 1 those lines. 2 : Okay. Talk a little bit 2 : How were you aware, how 3 about the cameras in the facility. 3 are you as the Warden made aware of cameras not 4 In Okay. 4 working appropriately or any issues with the : What is your understanding recordin devices? 6 on the eneral reliability of them? 6 : The department head would 7 : They're not good. We were 7 bring it up to me, or the Associate Warden 8 just funded to get new cameras installed but, 8 would tell me, you know, we were informed that 9 you know, when you're installing the cameras, 9 the cameras aren't working. 10 there's a lot you have to do. The building is 10 : What is the normal 11 built in 1975. It's not like a new building, 11 procedure when the cameras go down? 12 and we've got to go through cinderblock. 12 : So, if the cameras go down, 13 There's a lot of things that, you know, are in 13 then the contact has to look and determine 14 that block. Asbestos. So, we have to do the 14 what's the roblem with the cameras. 15 wirin . SO the system is outdated. Um -- 15 : Okay. How long would you 16 : When you say they're not, 16 say that the cameras have been unreliable? 17 are they not reliable? Is it poor quality in 17 : What do you mean by 18 recordin ? What's the -- 18 "unreliable?" 19 : It's the recording, but what 19 : I'm sorry, how long would 20 do the call that, the DVRs? 20 you sa the cameras have been not working? 21 : Okay. 21 : They work, but periodically 22 : The ones that hold the 22 they o down. 23 recordings, they're breaking down. So, 23 Okay. 24 sometimes we have where they're not recording. 24 : That's what I meant by it, 25 We have to get it fixed, you know, more along 25 but they do record. You can, you know, it's 107 108 1 the quality. Like you go to some places and 1 problem. The cameras are not recording. 2 some agencies where you have that bird vision 2 MS. : So, does SIS have a room 3 type camera. That's not what we have. 3 where the can see the cameras in the facility? 4 4 1.11 Okay. I mean, it's, you can see 6 things, we can do some identifying, but they're : We have a, the camera room 5 is in our communications room behind that area. 6 MS. : Okay. So, if a camera, if 7 not, you know, and they're only in certain 7 the camera in the SHU was not working -- 8 locations. 8 : Um-hum. 9 MS. : And again, the chain of 9 MS. : -- someone in that camera 10 notification is the staff, the Corrections 10 room would be able to see that there's no feed 11 Officers or Corrections worker notifies the 11 from that articular camera? 12 Shift Lieutenant? 12 : It's not the feed, it's the 13 As far as with the cameras? 13 recording. You can have, you always have the 14 : Yes. If they're -- 14 life feed that you can see what's going on. 15 It depends on -- 15 it's the recordin of it. 16 -- not operating. 16 MS. : Um-hum. 17 -- who's using the cameras 17 : And the recordings 18 and reviewin the cameras. 18 typically, and don't quote me on it, are on a 19 MS. : Okay. 19 two-week or less timeline. So, what it is is, 20 : You know, usually our 20 if it gets to that two-week period, the memory 21 investigative department's doing it, and they 21 gets full, then it starts re-recording over 22 do the check, and if they come in and check and 22 again. So, that's how most camera systems 23 check the cameras and say, stuff's not 23 work. 24 recording, then they notify the Comp Shop or 24 MS. : But if for instance a 25 the facilities manager and say, hey, we have a 25 camera in the SHU was down -- EFTA00064545 1 2 Ma MS. Right. 109 : -- someone in that camera 3 room would see that the camera was down. 1 • I believe she told me she 2 told him on Thursday that she made a 3 notification for it. 110 4 : Or the SIS would check and 4 MS. : Okay. S say, determine hey the recordings are not down S Um -- or yeah, ou're right, or even the screen. MS. : And that would be an oral 7 MS. : Um-hum. 7 notification? 8 MS : If we didn't have a visual 8 I'm not sure. 9 screen to say, hey, there's problems with the 9 MS. : Okay. 10 camera. 10 But she did say she notified 11 MS. : And did that happen with 11 him. So -- 12 the SHU camera? Was anyone notified that it 12 MS. : Okay. 13 wasn't workin ? 13 : Are you made aware of 14 : Well, and this is what I was 14 those notifications as well that the cameras 15 told after the fact, the SIS Lieutenant I 15 are down and not working? 16 believe conveyed that to the Communication . 16 It would depend. 17 Officer that there was a problem with the 17 : Okay. 18 cameras. 18 You know, on how bad it was. 19 MS. _: Is that 19 If it was something that you can run out and 20 (phonetic s 20 fix immediately, you know, it would say, hey, 21 21 you know, we can fix it. But if it was 111 22 : And it's a she? 22 something that was going to be for a while, I 23 24 25 it? 1 2 yeah. 3 : Yes, she. : When did she know about : I was told on Saturday. : Okay. You were told after 23 would have to be notified. 24 25 this? 1 opportunit . 2 112 : And were you notified of : How does the inmate get a 3 telephone account set up? 4 4 : Typically he has to go out II S : After -- S of SHU into a housing unit and go through the 6 -- the fact. 6 voice recognition process in order to get set 7 -- the fact I was told. 7 up for it. You can't do it in the Special : Okay. 8 Housin Unit. 9 : That the cameras weren't 9 : And we said earlier that 10 workin . 10 Mr. Epstein was never left, was always in 11 : I'm sorry, just who 11 Special Housin Unit. 12 notified you of this? 12 : Was always in the Special 13 told me. 13 Housin Unit. 14 : Lieutenant, okay. Talking 14 : Did he have an opportunity 15 about let's talk about phone calls in the SHU. 15 to get a tele hone account set up? 16 17 Mi : Um-hum. What are the regulations 18 or policies about giving inmates unreported 16 : The problem with Mr. Epstein 17 was he was in the attorney room all day. 18 : Okay. 19 phone calls? 19 =I From beginning to end, and 20 : During the intake screening, 20 that's something that you do during the daytime 21 you can come in and in certain SHU situations, 21 because our communications people are there. 22 an inmate will get an unmonitored call if they 22 So, we did, and then again, he had to be in an 23 don't have their telephone account set up. 23 assigned unit to get that. It's just to have 24 it set u . 24 25 =I okay. So, they're afforded that 25 : Okay. Was Mr. Epstein EFTA00064546 113 114 1 allowed hone calls? 1 : That was Yr. 2 : Was he what? 2 (phonetic 3 : Was Mr. Epstein allowed 3 MS. : Okay. 4 phone calls? 4 So -- S : Yeah. His initial one, he S : So, Mr. should didn't get his initial one, so we had to give have been listening to that phone call? 7 him amiglgligitial call when he came in. 7 : Right, and from what I 8 Okay. 8 understand he listening. 9 Then while you're in the 9 Okay. Are those phone 10 Special Housing Unit, you're entitled to one 10 calls recorded anywhere to ensure just to -- 11 call every 30 days. 11 : No, they're not recorded, 12 : Okay. 12 but we can trace the phone line to get the 13 : So, he was entitled to a 30- 13 phone number. 14 day phone call. 15 : And are those normally 16 monitqr2gillgrded? How do those? 14 15 = 16 was made. Okay. I To determine where the call 17 IIIIIIIIIII: Typically in his case, that 17 : Okay. And in tracing of 18 he didn't have his monitor set up, the unit 18 that to get the phone number, is the length of 19 manager stood there and listened to the call. 19 the call -- 20 : Okay. Um -- 20 • Yes. 21 MS. : And would that be the 21 -- noted as well? 22 Lieutenant? 22 Yes. 23 : No. It was the Unit 23 : Okay. But in terms of 24 Manager. 24 putting that into a system or a monitoring, 25 MS. : And who would that be? 25 there's not a database for that? 115 116 1 : We didn't, because again, he 1 earlier. I just wanted to go over it again. 2 wasn't set u . 2 When were you first notified of Mr. Epstein's 3 : Okay. Are you aware of 3 suicide, or medical, or situation? 4 how many phone calls Mr. Epstein's made while 4 : About 6:45 -- in the S ecial Housing Unit? : Okay. 6 : I'm not sure. I'm not aware 6 -- 6:50. 7 how many made. But I don't, I know he made 7 : Who did you notify? that one -- 8 I immediately called my boss 9 10 EMI Um-hum. -- that day and I'm aware of 10 11 the initial one, but I don't believe he made 9 11 MEI : Okay. -- to let him know and then 12 that many, because I do believe I saw a 12 tell him that I was on my way to the 13 correspondence that his attorney made to our 13 institution. 14 attorney about him getting a phone call. 14 : Did you notify anybody 15 : Okay. 15 else? MI 16 : That he hadn't gotten a 16 Who, me? 17 phone call. So, there's some correspondence on 17 : Yes. 18 that. 18 No. I just, I let him know, 19 : Okay. You got any else on 19 get dressed et to the institution. 20 the -- 20 : Okay. When you arrived at 21 MS. : No. 21 the institution, did you speak to any staff 22 : Okay. 22 there? 23 : Let's go over real quick 23 : When I got there, I saw 24 (Indiscernible *01:18:13). 24 obviousl the Lieutenant. Um -- 25 : We covered this a little 25 : Which -- EFTA00064547 117 118 1 MS. : Lieutenant 1 : Okay. 2 : Uh, Lieutenant when he 2 NW And I believe Ms. Noel 3 came in and my first, you know, any time you 3 picked up the phone, and I asked her, you know, 4 have a suicide attempt, you want to make sure 4 what was going. And she told me what was going S your staff are all right and how they're doing. S on. But she really couldn't talk. So, then I 6 So, I went to, you know, to check on him to 6 came, when I got to the institution, I saw her 7 kind of get a debrief on what was going on. He 7 and I said, "Hey, are you all right? Is 8 kind of debriefed me on the situation. Um -- 8 everything fine." And she was like okay. 9 : What did Lieutenant IIII 9 So, I had somebody from our crisis support 10 tell ou? 10 team that was there talk to her to make sure 11 : So, I asked him, so I 11 that she was all right, and then I went to try 12 basically told him what happened, and he said, 12 to find Thomas. She said Thomas had left. 13 he talked to Officer Noel and she said we 13 So, I said, okay, "Left where? Where did 14 didn't do the 3 o'clock count or the 5 o'clock 14 he go?" 15 count. 15 They said, you know, "He went home. He 16 And then he said he talked to Noel, 16 was distraught." 17 Officer Noel, and she said, no he talked to 17 So, then I get another call saying Thomas 18 Officer Thomas and that Officer Thomas said, "I 18 was outside, and that he told me, "I'm not 19 messed up. We messed up." Something about it's 19 answering any questions from you. I want my 20 not her fault. But he said he was just talking 20 union", I said Thomas, "I'm not concerned about 21 way off the line. 21 what happened. I'm concerned about your well- 22 Let me back-track a little. I did make 22 being. Make sure you're all right. You've 23 one more call, because I couldn't get in 23 been through a traumatic experience", and he 24 contact with Lieutenant IIII. I called up to 24 just kept talking. 25 the Special Housing Unit. 25 So, there was a staff member out there. I 119 120 1 said, try to find him if he's outside. So, 1 you know. And then I didn't know, and I asked 2 they went outside and they said, you know, he 2 him, I said, "Did you call in for work today?" 3 was gone. 3 And he said, "Yes, I did." And he said, 4 I didn't see Ms. Noel, but I told them to 4 "He was sleeping and he was tired." S get a memorandum from her on what happened. S And I said, "Well I'm just checking on 6 They told me said she wasn't feeling well and your well-being and just seeing how you are", 7 she had to talk to her Union rep. 7 and I left it at that. 8 So, and I said, "You know what, let them 8 : That was this morning? 9 go. We'll get back with them or somebody will 9 That was this morning. 10 get back with them." And they left. And we 10 MS. : So, he basically called in 11 just started the process of collecting and 11 sick toda ? 12 preserviniiIIIIIII 12 : He called in sick today. 13 MS. : Have Noel or Thomas been 13 She's on da s off Monday and Tuesday. 14 in to work since then? 14 MS. : Okay. 15 : No. Noel, I sent some 15 a : I'm going to assign both of 16 support staff on Sunday to go talk to them. 16 them with no inmate contact, so they're going 17 Today, the mother of Thomas' child, she works 17 to be away from inmates and assigned on the 18 at the institution but they're not together, 18 outside Indiscernible *01:23:09). 19 said, "Hey, he was with her all weekend but she 19 : And then Lieutenant IIII. 20 can't get in contact with him." I sent her and 20 And then that's basically 21 a Lieutenant to go over to his house to find 21 told me, and I told him, 22 out if he's okay. He called me a little irate 22 "Write a memorandum on what was said", and he 23 saying, "You know, you're sending people to my 23 wrote the memorandum and he submitted it. 24 house. You know, I was sleeping." 24 MS. : Has he been in to work 25 I said, "I'm checking on your well-being", 25 since Saturday? EFTA00064548 121 122 1 : Yes, he did. Actually he 1 : What is the policy 2 stayed there late on Saturday. He basically 2 regarding if an Officer or staff member sees an 3 worked a double, and then he came back and 3 inmate in that situation? 4 worked during the day on it. So, he hasn't 4 : Okay. And I won't want to taken any time off. S quote this is a policy thing, but you call for 6 MS. : Is he there now? 6 assistance and you wait for assistance to come 7 : He's there. He's there 7 because you don't know if that's a ploy. So, 8 today, so he's working here. 8 if you go in there as one person, and you know, 9 MS. 9 when somebody's hanging, that's dead. That is 10 : Oh,Andand--I do have an 10 dead weight. 11 addition. And I did ask him, you know, when he 11 So, you go in there, you don't know if 12 got there what happened, and he says, he 12 it's a ploy. So, you go in there and get 13 doesn't know what the condition was because 13 overpowered, guess what? Now that individual 14 when Thomas called for the emergency medical, 14 has the cell door keys for every key on that 15 he opened the door and took him down himself 15 range, and that could be a recipe for disaster. 16 and started life-saving measures. 16 So, it might sound inhumane that, you 17 MS. : So, Epstein was hanging 17 know, we have to wait because the individual on 18 from the door? 18 the grill can't come down range either because 19 : We don't know what he was 19 if they get overpowered, guess what, we've lost 20 doing because Thomas was the first one there, 20 a whole unit. And that's the most secure unit 21 and when responding staff came, he was already 21 in the institution. 22 there doing compressions and life-saving 22 So, she has to stay outside with the keys 23 measures. So, I definitively can't say where, 23 on the grill because there are two different 24 was he hanging? What position he was or not 24 keys. They don't mix. And we wait for 25 because nobody knows when they responded, so. 25 responding staff to come in and perform, you 123 124 1 know, the life-saving measures without 1 midnight Lieutenant. 2 endangering your safety. 2 MS. : Okay. And he, she? 3 So, he went in and, you know, so again, 3 She worked, apparently she 4 there's no idea of what the cell looked like, 4 worked at night and IIII relieved her early. what his osition was, or anyiiiiii MS. : Okay. 6 YS. : Captain and Captain 6 : At 5:33, but then I heard 7 are they at work now? 7 she came back and then left again. So, I don't 8 Captain =? know, I believe she went up to the unit. 9 : I think. 9 MS. : Has she been at work since 10 His secretary is 10 then? 11 : Okay. 11 I believe she's on days off. 12 Yeah. 12 : Okay. 13 : That may be a mistake. 13 So, she'll be back tonight. 14 Yeah. 14 MS. : Okay. Do you want to step 15 MS. : So, Captain was the 15 out for a minute? 16 Captain on Friday; right? 16 : Actually before -- 17 : Yes. 17 MS. : Unless you have anything 18 : Okay. 18 (Indiscernible 11:27:13). 19 : And I need to, and I'm not 19 lust a few -- 20 sure if he was at work either. I think he 20 IM Okay. 21 might've been off. But is his 21 -- if I can jump back a 22 secretary. 22 little bit. 23 MS. okay. And 23 In Okay. 24 Lieutenant is it 2 24 : Specifically go back to, 25 was the 25 did you have any one-on-one interactions with EFTA00064549 125 126 1 Epstein? 1 question is, I just want to make sure we have 2 : Let's see, I had one, I saw 2 the name ri ht. 3 him by the attorney visit, small conversation. 3 Okay. 4 Another one I saw him when I was making rounds 4 MS. : The Lieutenant or the 5 on the unit when he had first gotten into the S Captain that you told that Epstein should have 6 cell with . He was going into the shower. a cellmate? 7 I asked him, "How was everything going." He 7 : Well, it was Captain 8 said, "I'm good. I'm fine." 8 9 And then , I said, "How's he doing?" 9 , okay. 10 was like, "I want to go back to a unit." 10 Yeah. 11 So, you know, was just that type of 11 MS. : Okay. And I know you're 12 conversation while making rounds. 12 probably already doing this, but we just wanted 13 : Okay. Thank you. 13 to make sure you're preserving all of the 14 111 Okay. 14 emails that you referenced, any text messages 15 : And did you want just step 15 that you've sent about this, any communications 16 outside? 16 that ou've had at all. 17 : Huh? 17 : Well when I had gave the 18 ro you mind if we just take a 18 direction it was given verbally in a meeting. 19 step out? 19 MS. Um-hum. 20 : No, I have no problem. 20 : I didn't send emails out. I 21 : It is 12:23. We're 21 had a direct conversation. 22 pausing the interview. 22 MS. : Okay. 23 We're resuming the interview at this time. 23 : So, it was everyone in the 24 It is 12:29 in the afternoon. 24 room. So -- 25 MS. : Okay. So, the first 25 MS. : Okay. But for instance, 127 128 1 the email that you sent listing here are the 1 what ha ened, the times -- 2 three possibilities for -- 2 : Okay. 3 : Oh, yes. 3 : -- and moving forward with 4 -- who's -- 4 that. S All of that -- S : Do you know who drafted -- the best. All of that. 6 that? Yeah. If you want that -- 7 : The SIS Lieutenant does it. 8 -- you're preserving. 8 : Okay. 9 -- that's there. It's 9 : And then I review it because 10 preserved. 10 it's ultimately sent from me. It's a report of 11 MS. : Okay. 11 incident -- 12 : I'm sure this will 12 : Um-hum. 13 inevitably happen, and it's a report for this. 13 1.1 1 -- to our central office. 14 Has that already been drafted? Is that a 14 So, I look at it the synopsis. 15 process? 15 : Okay. 16 For? 16 : Just for terminology to make 17 : Will there be an incident 17 sure it's accurate. And it's just a brief 18 report regarding the discovery of Jeffrey 18 statement saying that, you know, he made 19 Epstein's bod ? 19 rounds. 20 : It's called a report of 20 : Um-hum. 21 incident, a S83. So, we did that today. 21 =I He was unresponsive. Life- 22 Okay. 22 saving measures were initiated. Taken to the 23 You know -- 23 outside hospital and then he was pronounced 24 : Um-hum. 24 deceased at that time. And then we just move 2S . -- just a brief statement on 25 on from there. EFTA00064550 129 130 1 lust a couple of more -- 1 preserved. And then if any requests come, you 2 Um-hum. 2 o and get it and preserve it. 3 -- housekeeping stuff just 3 : Are you -- 4 to say, have you had any contact with the press 4 MS. : Can I just ask one quick regarding this? S question about the log books? 6 : No, I have not. 6 Yeah. 7 : Has any press contacted 7 : Actually while she's 8 you directl 8 looking at it -- 9 No, they have not. 9 MS. Yeah. 10 : Have you directed any 10 -- do you mind? 11 staff to destroy anything? 11 MS. : This is -- 12 : No, I have not. 12 . Are you aware of any 13 : What directions have you 13 objects missing from his cell? Are you aware 14 given the staff in terms of preserving things? 14 of anything peculiar occurring since his 15 : So, initially when we came, 15 suicide? Since his body was discovered? 16 when I got in, I told the Captain, get all the 16 • You mean missing from his 17 log books up there, the rounds, anything 17 cell? 18 pertaining to get it and anything we can think 18 : Yes. 19 of that might be needed. And it's given to the 19 =I I didn't observe the cell, 20 SIS. It's in the SIS office with the SIS 20 so I don't know what's in -- 21 Lieutenant. 21 : Were you ever notified of 22 So, told them to preserve it, and whoever 22 any, after his body was discovered, have you 23 needed it, I know the IG has come by. They've 23 been notified of any peculiarities or anything 24 taken some stuff. But basically preserve 24 that stuck out in your mind as odd? 25 everything that might be needed to be 25 : As far as what would've been 131 132 1 in his cell, or? 1 an incident re ort. 2 : Anything in general as it 2 : Okay. 3 relates to him? 3 . And the only incident report 4 : Not that I can think of. I 4 he had was, I guess it was the cloth that was S mean, it's just documents that we're still 5 found on the initial one, but then our trying to gather -- 6 Disciplinary Hearing Officer concluded that we 7 : Sure. 7 couldn't' sustain any charges on him because it -- and locate, but -- 8 was inconclusive -- 9 : It's nothing odd because I 9 : Okay. 10 don't know what happened in that cell. 10 : -- with it, but that's -- 11 Um-hum. 11 : Okay. And were you aware 12 : So, I don't know what 12 of him having any enemies or anything, or being 13 would be -- 13 a specific tar et by anybody? 14 Okay. 14 : Where? 15 : -- considered odd. Were 15 : In the institution? 16 you aware of him having any contraband in his 16 • No. I mean no one's came to a 17 cell? 17 me specifically saying, you know, "He's my 18 : Contraband? 18 enemy" or all that, so I don't, you know. 19 : Anything -- 19 Was he not to be, not to 20 : Well -- 20 be celled with anybody because of any problems 21 -- he wasn't supposed to 21 that he would have, or -- 22 have? Any unapproved things in his cell? 22 : I mean. 23 : No. 23 : Let me rephrase that a 24 : Okay. 24 little. Were you aware of any other inmates 25 : I mean, he would've received 25 who had targeted him specifically? EFTA00064551 133 134 1 No. 1 it. 2 : Okay. 2 MS. : Okay. Okay. 3 Um-hum. 3 • This is not complete for the 4 : The log books -- 4 simple fact that, you know, with the emergency S Um-hum. S coming, I had them take it and preserve it. MS. : -- just for the record, 6 So, it was part of the preservation. So, 7 I'm showing log book Tier G dated 08/10/2019. 7 that's probably why it doesn't go all the way 8 : Right. up to 8 o'clock. 9 MS. : So, this is filled out by 9 MS. Got it. 10 a Corrections Officer -- 10 : Because as soon as I came 11 Right. 11 in, I told the Lieutenant grab the 30-minute 12 -- who's doing the checks 12 checks. 13 13 MS. : And is this a signature or 14 Right. 14 a circle for a signature? 15 -- every 30 minutes. 15 That's a signature. 16 : Um-hum. 16 : Okay. 17 : Correct? 17 • Whoever was in, and I 18 Yes. 18 believe, and I'm not sure, but if it was the 19 MS. : And they're supposed to 19 morning watch Lieutenant, it would be 20 write the time they start and end and then 20 Lieutenant 21 initial it? 21 MS. 22 : Who did it. 22 Yeah. 23 MS. : And then the Operations 23 MS. : I think that's all the 24 Lieutiiiiiiiiiii ns it at the end of the shift. 24 questions that we have. 25 : The shift that they reviewed 25 : Great. That's it. The 135 136 1 time is now 12:35. Warden, we really CERTIFICATE 2 appreciate your time. I hereby certify that the foregoing pages 3 Okay. represent an accurate transcript of the 4 : And the interview is electronic sound recording of the proceedings S completed, oh actually before we do that. Is before the Department of Justice, Office of the there anything that you would like to tell us? Inspector General in the matter of: 7 Any statements that you would like to make? 8 Anything you think we should know about the Interview of 9 incident in general? Just wanted to give you 10 an opportunity if there's anything that you 11 think we should know that we haven't discussed. 12 : I can't think of anything 13 else. But I mean, as it comes along, I'll pass , Transcriber 14 it on to the IG. Anything I get or any 15 information. 16 you. 17 =I:0kTayha.nk 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 EFTA00064552