EFTA00117173

1 2 APPEARANCES: OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL BY: BY: WITNESS: DIGITALLY RECORDED SWORN STATEMENT OF OTHER APPEARANCES: NONE OIG CASE #: 2019-010614 DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL MARCH 16, 2022 RESOLUTE DOCUMENTATION SERVICES 28632 Roadside Drive, Suite 285 Agoura Hills, CA 91301 Phone: (818) 431-5800 3 4 1 : This is Special Agent 1 2 . Today is March 16th, and the time is 2 Assistant Special Agent- 3 9:55 a.m. The recorder is now on. My name is 3 in-Charge with the DOJ/OIG 4 I am a Special Agent with the 4 and these are my credentials. 5 U.S. Department of Justice, Office of the 5 : Yes, sir. 6 Inspector General, New York Field Office, and 6 : Please identify ourself. 7 these are m credentials. 7 : Lieutenant 8 : Thank you, sir. 8 Last name 9 : This interview with the 9 With the Federal Bureau of Prisons. 10 Federal Bureau of Prisons employee, Lieutenant 10 : This is an official DOJ/OIG 11 , is being conducted as part of 11 investigation into events surrounding the death 12 an official U.S. Department of Justice, Office 12 of inmate Jeffrey Epstein, and you are being 13 of the Inspector General investigation. 13 asked to voluntarily provide answers to our 14 Today's date is March 16th, 2022. The 14 questions. Will you agree to a voluntary 15 time is 9:56 a.m. This interview is being 15 interview with the DOJ/OIG? 16 conducted at the Federal Bureau of Prisons 16 Yes. 17 Metropolitan Detention Center, Brooklyn, New 17 : Please review DOJ/OIG form 18 York, warden's conference room. 18 III-226/2. The form states, United States 19 Also present are DOJ OIG Assistant Special 19 Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector 20 A ent-in-Char e„ Lieutenant 20 General, Warnings and Assurances to Employee 21 . This interview will be 21 Requested to Provide Information on a Voluntary 22 recorded by me, Special Agent 22 Basis. 23 Could everyone please themselves for the 23 "You are being asked to provide 24 record, and spell your last name? To start, 24 information as part of an investigation being 25 again, I am DOJ/OIG Special Agent 25 conducted by the Office of the Inspector EFTA00117173 s 6 1 General. This investigation is being conducted 1 signature of the Office of Inspector General. 2 pursuant to the Inspector General Act of 1978, 2 : Okay. And this is 3 as amended. 3 , and I will sign as the witness and 4 This investigation pertains to job 4 fill out the rest of the form. What is the 5 performance failure and security failure. This 5 time, ? 6 is a voluntary interview. Accordingly, you do 6 : It is 9:59 a.m. 7 not have to answer questions. No disciplinary 7 • 9:59 a.m., and the place 8 action will be taken against you if you choose 8 is the MDC Brooklyn. 9 not to answer questions. 9 : Thank you. Before starting 10 Any statement you furnish may be used as 10 the interview, I would like to place you under 11 evidence in any future criminal proceedings, or 11 oath. Lieutenant , can you please raise 12 agency disciplinary proceeding, or both." The 12 your ri ht hand? 13 waiver states, "I understand the Warnings and 13 Sure. 14 Assurances stated above, and I am willing to 14 : Do you swear to the tell the 15 make a statement and answer questions. 15 truth and nothing but the truth during this 16 No promises or threats have been made to 16 interview? 17 me, and no pressure or coercion of any kind has 17 : Yes, sir. 18 been used against me." Please review the form 18 : Thank you. You can put your 19 and if you understand and agree, please sign 19 hand down. 20 where it says Employee Signature. 20 Okay. 21 : Okay. 21 Please let me know if you 22 Mill : And print your name right 22 don't understand any questions, and I will try 23 below that. 23 to re eat it or try to rephrase it for you. 24 : Below that. Okay. 24 Okay. 25 : I'm going to sign on the 25 Thank you for taking the time 7 8 1 to meet with us today. You previously told us 1 reviewing the camera, I was looking for an 2 - we'll jump right into it - you met with us in 2 inmate that may have possibly departed the 3 the past. 3 building. So, I was, I went to the camera to 4 : Yes. 4 review the, to see if I can backtrack exactly 5 : And you previously told us 5 when he left the building. 6 that you were off on August 9th, 2019. That 6 I was present at the SIS office, with the 7 was a Frida . Do you recall? 7 Associate Warden from MCC New York at the time, 8 : On August 9th, 2019? I think 8 which is AW IIII, we both were looking at the 9 I was off on the Friday. I think my last day 9 camera, and at that moment, I noticed I 10 of workin was August 8th, I think it was. 10 couldn't rewind on the cameras. 11 : August 8th. And do you 11 So, I couldn't get any playback. At that 12 recall mentioning to us about an issue with the 12 moment, we stopped, you know, like, searching 13 camera 13 for the inmate because we couldn't go back any 14 Yes. 14 further than the time we were at. And at that 15 -- system? 15 time, I notified communications tech 16 Yes. 16 I called him over the radio and let him 17 : And you had addressed that 17 know, hey, I'm trying to rewind back the 18 situation with the communications technician 18 cameras, and the cameras won't rewind. And he 19 Hughwon 19 said he will come and take a look at the system 20 : Yes. 20 and see what was going on. 21 : And you remember mentioned, I 21 And which he did. He did come down and he 22 think the conversation was between - you want 22 looked at the system, and he said he has to do 23 to tell us a little bit about it again? Your 23 overtime to fix the s stem. At that moment, I 24 recollection of it. 24 notified Captain . I apologized 25 : Sure. I was - after I was 25 that the cameras was down, and I also provided EFTA00117174 9 10 1 him with a memorandum, letting him know that 1 just one while she was there, so -- 2 the camera cameras stem was down. 2 IIIIIIIIIIiiiiight. 3 : Okay. And we were able to -- 3 : -- if it's -. 4 Before we get into that, 4 : I can't remember if she 5 though -- 5 stayed, but I did go back on several cameras on 6 Okay. I'm sorry. 6 the housing units and different areas, to see 7 -- as far as the - so, 7 can I -- 8 there was a discrepancy with what you said and 8 : Okay. 9 what AW . said. Did you just rewind one - 9 M- rewind. 10 and that's not a big discrepancy - just, did 10 : So, you did, but she 11 you rewind one video at that time, the one you 11 possibl didn't. 12 were trying to look at, or did you rewind 12 : Yes. Yes. 13 multiiiiiiiiiiitermine that the -? 13 Okay. Great. 14 : No. I went back on quite a 14 : So, we were able to identify, 15 few. 15 with your assistance, through this document was 16 And was that with AW 16 provided to AW IIII, and AW I. provided this 17 present? 17 to the MCC attorneys, who in turn provided it 18 : I can't remember if she 18 to the OIG. 19 stayed -- 19 : Okay. Okay. : And this is the memo that was 20 21 r 20 - while I was going back at 21 written by you. I'm going to read it out for 22 the cameras, to be honest with you. 22 the record. Up top it says, the United States 23 Because she was saying -- 23 Government Memorandum. Federal Bureau of 24 : But I -. 24 Prisons. MCC New York. 150 Park Road New 25 -- she thought it was 25 York. The date is August 10th, 2019, from T. 11 12 1 , SIS Lieutenant to , Captain. 1 memo? 2 : Mm-hmm. 2 : Yes. 3 : Subject is, "NiceVision 3 : Is this the memo? Okay. 4 (Phonetic Sp. *00:07:26) camera system." "On 4 Yes. 5 August 8th, 2019, at approximately 3:45 p.m., 5 : lust to clarify, the date 6 while reviewing the Nice camera system, I 6 that ou wrote the memo will be on August 10th? 7 attempted to recover video footage from the 8 unit 5-South housing unit." 9 10 : Yes. : "At this time, I was unable 10 7 8 S 9 folloiiiiiiiiii Yes. : This would be the Saturday : Yes, sir. It would be the 11 to recover any previous recordings from the 11 SaturiiiIIIIIII 12 camera. This prompting me to review all of the 12 And August 9th, you were off? 13 cameras. None of the cameras on the system 13 : Yes. I'm almost sure I 14 were able to record. 14 wasn't there the Friday. I'm almost sure that 15 Therefore, I called communication 15 I wasn't in the building. 16 technician H. , via radio. At 16 : That last sentence, that's 17 approximately 4:00 p.m., responding to 17 the 18 the third floor phone monitoring room to check 18 first, just to 19 the cameras, and notified me that the cameras 19 clarify, the August 10th. So, previously, and 20 were not recording, and there was no way to 20 I think again, you just, I think you assumed 21 retrieve any video. stated he fixed the 21 you wrote it on August 8th, but it looks like 22 camera system on Friday, August 9th, 2019, when 22 you actuall wrote it on the 10th. 23 he arrived to work." 23 : I did assume that I wrote it 24 : Mm-hmm. 24 on the 8th. 25 : Do you recall writing this 25 All right. EFTA00117175 13 14 1 M. did. 1 you think -? 2 : So, looking at that now, 2 : No. I'm definitely positive 3 do you know that it was now written on the 3 that I told him when the cameras was down 4 10th, on the Saturday, as opposed to on that 4 because we always do. 5 Thursda , when you first found out? 5 Okay. 6 : Yes. 6 : Because if something 7 : Okay. So, that's not, 7 happened, we need to get footage at that 8 like, a misunderstanding? That's, now looking 8 moment. 9 at it, you're, like, oh, that's correct, you 9 Uh-huh. 10 actually wrote it on -. So, does that mean 10 And I do recall him asking me 11 that you didn't tell Captain until the 11 did I notify that the cameras was down, 12 10th, as well? 12 and I told him I did -- : No. I definitely told him Okay. 13 14 15 13 when the cameras was found, because he wouldn't 14 have had an foots e, have anything occur. 15 r - because to sta to do overtime to fix them. was going 16 : Because when we spoke 16 : And you're positive that 17 with Captain , he didn't think he would - 17 that was on the 8th? 18 or he said he wasn't told until that Saturday. 18 : I'm positive -- 19 He says he was never informed on that Thursday 19 : Sorry, go ahead. 20 or Friday. 20 -- it was on the 8th. 21 So, we were just - now seeing that memo - 21 : Sorry. Go ahead. 22 we were trying to think, oh, maybe you were 22 : Okay. And the last thing 23 just mistaken because you were very confident, 23 says, "1 stated he fixed the camera system 24 no, I told the Captain, and I provided him the 24 on Friday, August 9th, when he arrived to 25 memo. So, seeing that, does that maybe make 25 work." Just to clarify, does that mean that he 15 16 1 - sorry, let me pause for a second. 1 well, what happened with the camera system? 2 UNKNOWN FEMALE: I'm sorry. Hi. Hi. How 2 Because we had this conversation that you will 3 are you? 3 fix it on the 8th. And he said I fixed it 4 We're on a recording, 4 yesterday. And then, I'm here today, which is 5 just so ou know. 5 the 10th to finish up. 6 : So -. 6 So, you mean, he started 7 UNKNOWN FEMALE: Oh, I'm sorry. 7 fixiniiiiiiiiiirday? 8 9 r 10 statement -- Okay. ust to clarify, the last 8 : So, I'm assuming that, I 9 don't know if he started, or if he fixed it, 10 but I could only go by what he told me. I 11 Yes. 11 fixed the camera system, and I'm here to finish 12 -- does that mean that he 12 it up. 13 fixed, stated, now, did tell you that he 13 : Because when you - when 14 fixed the camera on August 9th? Or does it 14 we spoke to you last, you had mentioned that 15 mean that he told you that he will come in on 15 you approached him and said, you told me you 16 August 9th and fix the camera? 16 were going to fix this, and you said, and then 17 : No. On the 8th, he told me 17 he told you at that time, yeah, I came in here 18 he was Staying that evening to fix the cameras. 18 today -- 19 When seen me on the 10th, when I entered 19 iiiight. 20 the Special Housing Unit, he was in there. I 20 : -- to do it. 21 don't know if he was working, if he was doing 21 : Right. So, I was under the 22 overtime. 22 assumption he started on the 9th, and he still 23 But as soon as I entered the Special 23 had - whatever he had left to do on the 10th, 24 Housing Unit, immediately approached 24 and I assume that that's what he was there to 25 me. Immediately approached me, and I said, 25 do. EFTA00117176 17 18 1 Okay. So, not that he 1 : When we arrived, and we 2 fixed it on the 9th, but he started to fix it 2 realized that there was no video over the 9th. 3 on the 9th? 3 That's when he stated, I did overtime, I fixed 4 : Right. I feel like he 4 it yesterday. And then, we would, me and him 5 started to fix it on the 9th, and he was there 5 were having a conversation that it's no video. 6 to finish up, because then he was actually on 6 You can't go back. And his thing was, I'm here 7 overtime in an attempt to, if I'm correct. 7 to finish u' what I started yesterday. 8 Okay. 8 Huh. 9 ro, I assumed that he started 9 : So, I don't -- 10 fixing it, and he was there to attempt to 10 : Was it -- 11 finish it u . 11 -- know what he fixed, 12 : So, should that last 12 because fixing to - I'm sorry - fixing can be 13 sentence then read, he began fixing it on the 13 he bought all of the cameras back up, so the 14 9th? Instead of he fixed it on the 9th? 14 cameras are online, but I don't know if they 15 : It should, but again, I can't 15 were online to record, if that makes any sense. 16 recall. I don't want to say, you know, because 16 : And so, it's hard for us 17 he told me he fixed the cameras. So, fixing to 17 to understand because if he's saying he fixed 18 me, I don't know the camera system. So -- 18 it yesterday, and he's here to finish it today, 19 : So, on the 9th, when they 19 that sounds like it means he started fixing it 20 knew that they couldn't actually get video, he 20 yesterda and he's -- 21 actuaiiiiiiiiiII did fix it yesterday? 21 : Right. 22 : No. On the 9th. I mean, 22 • -- but what his words 23 sorry on the 10th. 23 were, he fixed it yesterday? 24 That's what I mean, on 24 : His words was, I fixed it 25 the 10th. 25 yesterday, and I'm here to finish up today. 19 20 1 Now, I don't know what the finish up part for 1 All right. So, when you 2 today was, to be honest with you. I'm assuming 2 say fixed in that, you're talking about, he got 3 the finishing up part was the to get them to 3 the cameras back up and running, but the 4 record, because they were blacked out. 4 recording part was going to be fixed on the 5 6 r Okay. ost of the cameras were 5 10th? 6 That's my assumption. 7 8 9 10 blacked out. Oh, so, they were actuaiiiiiiiiiid out? So -- 7 8 Mi. : Okay. : It's just an assumption. 9 Because I really can't say what he did. I can : It was some cameras that were 10 only sa 11 blacked out where it was no screen at all. 11 Well, it -- 12 Okay. 12 -- what he said. 13 14 15 16 17 18 E : This was on August 8th? : On August 8th. : Okay. So, he actually 13 • -- if he said to you, on 14 the 10th, I fixed them yesterday, did you ask 15 him then, well, then, why can't we get the got the cameras to not be blacked out anymore, 16 recordin s? so meaning, he fixed the cameras that were 17 blacked out, and on the 10th, he was going to 18 I didn't. . No? 19 get them to start recording? 19 I didn't. 20 That's what I assume. 20 Okay. 21 22 23 24 EM : Okay. : It's just an assumption because when I got there the 10th, I didn't 21 22 Hmm-mm. But now, your assumption 23 is, he fixed the cameras to get them back up physically go to see if the black out cameras 24 and running, and on the 10th, he was going to 25 was back online. 25 fix the recording part. EFTA00117177 21 22 1 : He was there to finish 1 : But the center control would 2 whatever that fixing was, and I'm assuming that 2 be loiiiiiiiiiiight? 3 it was the recording part because they still 3 : The control center, they 4 weren't recordin on the 10th. 4 would - my keys would have been locked behind, 5 : Okay. But that was an 5 like, an emergency glass. But he's accessed my 6 assumiiiiiiiliour end? 6 keys in the ast to fix the cameras. 7 : That was just an assumption 7 : How would he access them? 8 on my end. 8 : He would get permission from 9 : And you didn't ask him 9 the captain to get my keys because that's who 10 anythiiiiiiiiiir on that? 10 has to authorize the keys. 11 : I didn't ask him anything 11 : And he would go to the 12 else. 12 captain, and the captain would authorize it, F 13 Okay. Sorry. 13 and he could 'list take the keys? 14 : No, I didn't. 14 : I would hope so -- 15 : Go ahead. 15 : Mm-hmm. 16 : Do you recall having a 16 -- that he would get 17 conversation with him on the 10th about him not 17 authorization, but he's been there late nights 18 havino access to the communication room? 18 when there has been nobody in SIS, fixing the 19 : No. 19 cameras. 20 : On the 9th. Him not being 20 : And you recall specific 21 able to access the room because there was no 21 situations where the captain has authorized him 22 one tiiiiiiiiiien the door for him? 22 to take 'our keys and go into the room? 23 : No. No. And he would be 23 : I can't say I was present 24 able to have access to the room because all of 24 when he authorized him to take the keys. I'm 25 the keys are located in the control center. 25 not going to say that I was present. But -- 23 24 1 : But you recall -- 1 were up, they just weren't recording, so there 2 : I recall times when I told 2 was no wa to tell that they were -- 3 the captain, hey, is going to stay late 3 : No. You -- 4 because the camera system is not working, and 4 . -- down. 5 the captain say, okay, I'll be here. And he 5 -- you had some cameras that 6 would be and have access to that room. 6 were offline completely, with an X, I don't 7 : Does that mean was 7 know if ou've ever seen a camera system. 8 given the keys, or the captain would go in and 8 : So, was it still review, 9 open the door for him? 9 videoing? Like, could you see it, but there 10 : That, I'm not sure. 10 was this X on it, or was it just all black? 11 : Okay. 11 : No. You couldn't see. 12 : That, I'm not sure. 12 : Okay. 13 : So, do you remember 13 : You couldn't see. 14 around, approximately, what time it was on 14 : And you're positive -- 15 August 8th that you learned that the cameras 15 : So, seeing -. 16 were down? 16 : -- about that? 17 : It was late in the afternoon. 17 : I'm positive. 18 : And you're positive it 18 : So -. 19 was late in the afternoon? 19 : Okay. And then, so, 20 : It was in the afternoon. 20 you're saying, and you're positive that it 21 : And when you were 21 happened late in the afternoon on August 8th? 22 determining that these cameras were down, you 22 : Yes. 23 actually saw that they were -- because this is 23 : Because Captain 24 the first we're hearing that there were blacked 24 left early that day for a doctor's appointment 25 out cameras, all along we've been told they 25 on the 8th. So, that goes back to, are you EFTA00117178 25 26 1 sure you told him on the 8th? Because he 1 Okay. So, you're 2 wasn't there. 2 positive they were blacked out, you're positive 3 : No. I spoke to Captain 3 you told Captain 4 about the cameras because he asked me, 4 : Yes. 5 was I going to fix the cameras? I know it 5 Sorry. Go ahead, 6 definitely was after the lunch, the lunch 6 : How many screens would you 7 break. So, between - it was afternoon time - 7 think were blacked out? 8 betwefL1L(22,_1222. 8 : I don't even want to guess 9 All right. So, when you 9 because it was a lot of cameras up there, but 10 say late afternoon, before, you're now thinking 10 it was a good many. I know the housing units 11 it yeas actuall early afternoon? 11 were recording. The blacked-out cameras, it 12 : Well, that's late afternoon 12 was a lot of the corridors where we buzzed the 13 for me when I et it -- 13 doors, and we opened, a lot of the corridors 14 All right. 14 were out. I do remember that. I do remember 15 -- because I get in 5:00 in 15 the units were up. The housing units were up. 16 the morn in So -- 16 : So, let's talk about that for 17 Okay. 17 a second. I know it's important for the, how 18 -- I'm sorry. But it 18 important is it for the cameras to be working? 19 definitely was somewhere after the inmates' 19 : Very. 20 lunch. Between 12:00, 12:00 noon, I want to 20 : Now, we have two situations. 21 say between 12:00 and 2:00. In that timeframe. 21 One is, the camera feed not working, which 22 : Okay. 22 would mean being able to view the cameras live. 23 r can't tell you exactly the 23 And second is the actual recordings not 24 time. But it definitely was before I went 24 workiiii 25 home. 25 : Okay. 27 28 1 : So, how important is it for 1 recorder is not, that the recording is not 2 the camera feed to be working at all times? 2 there. And we might have spoken about this in 3 : Very. 3 the past, but should have gone home for 4 : Compared - I know, let's 4 the day, or should the recordings, the feeds 5 talk, separate that out from the actual 5 been fixed immediately? 6 recordings working. How often do people go in 6 : I kind of don't know the 7 and view the live feeds? 7 process of fixing the feeds because I know it 8 : It's my - this is just, 8 was times he said he had to order new cameras. 9 again, I would say it should have been daily 9 So, I don't know if they were fixable where he 10 because since I've been at MCC New York, normal 10 had to order new cameras, and had to wait for 11 practice was that the communication shop came 11 cameras to come in. 12 up every morning, went into that area where, I 12 So, I don't even, I don't even know, 13 don't know, like, the motherboard was at. 13 honestly, if he would have been able to fix 14 And they checked it. So, that's what I've 14 those cameras that was out, or if he needed to 15 always was used to happening. And they will 15 order new cameras to fix those cameras that was 16 say, hey, you got some cameras down, or A, B, 16 out. 17 C, and D, because SIS uses the cameras a lot. 17 : You mentioned there were 18 You know? 18 quite a few feeds out, right? 19 We going back for video. We looking for 19 Yes. 20 fights. Like, you know, they're up on our 20 : Do you think it was possible 21 desks sometimes who we're just seeing who's 21 that he came in, he told you on the 10th that 22 doing what. So, I would say daily that they 22 he came in on the 9th and he fixed them. Is it 23 definiiiiiiiiiild be monitored. 23 possible that he replaced all those cameras by 24 : Okay. And if the camera 24 the 9th? 25 feeds were not working, I understand the 25 : Oh, I don't know. EFTA00117179 29 30 1 : Okay. Okay. 1 and two that they weren't recording. 2 : I don't know. 2 10Yes. 3 : Any other follow up on that? 3 : And the ones that weren't 4 : No. I mean, I don't 4 recording, were they the same ones that were 5 think he was replacing cameras. Are you 5 blacked out? 6 talking about, like, hard drives that go with 6 : Nothing was recording. At 7 the cameras? 7 all. 8 : I think when she said about 8 : Nothing. You couldn't 9 the live feed -- 9 find anything ecording? 10 : Yeah, yeah. 10 : No. I couldn't. 11 she meant in order to see 11 : Because our understanding 12 the live feed, he would have to replace some of 12 was half of the cameras were recording and half 13 the cameras. 13 of them weren't. Just the ones you checked 14 : So, you think he actually 14 weren't recording. 15 replaced the cameras -- 15 : lust the ones I checked. And 16 : I don't know -- 16 normally, that would be the housing areas will 17 : -- or something? 17 be where I'll target because that's where the 18 : -- if he would have to 18 inmates at and that's where -- 19 replace them, but I know it was instances that 19 Okay. 20 he would say, oh, I have to order new cameras. 20 Ei r -- unfortunately, the 21 So, I assume that those cameras are broke, and 21 incidents usuall are. 22 they need to be re laced. 22 : And what - you said prior 23 : Okay. Okay. So, on the 23 - I just want to make sure we're clear - with 24 8th, though, you knew that there was actually 24 the ones that were blacked out were not the 25 two problems. One, that they were blacked out; 25 housing units? 31 32 1 : No. I don't recall any 1 : I didn't say the whole 2 housin units bein blocked out. 2 institution is not recording because I didn't 3 : But the housing units 3 know. 4 5 6 were the ones that weren't recording? recordin . : Right. I know they weren't 4 5 6 r actuall checked. Okay. t's just the cameras that I 7 : So, there was just a 7 : Okay. And did you tell 8 problem with basically all of the cameras that 8 him if it was, like, more than one, though? Or 9 you knew of. 9 did you just sa , hey, I can't get anything 10 : It seemed that way to me now. 10 recordin is coming to fix it? 11 Yes. 11 : I can't recall saying more 12 And did you know did you 12 than one. 13 provide that information to either AW S or 13 Okay. 14 Captain 14 I can't recall using those 15 : No. Not about the whole 15 words. 16 system because I kind of don't know how it 16 All right. And what 17 works. So, I said to , hey, you got a 17 about Did you, then, fill her in 18 lot of areas that's blacked out. With a red X. 18 after ere reviewing the one camera? 19 : Okay. And then, so, 19 : No. No. She left. 20 knowing all that information, what is it that 20 She left -- 21 you told Ca tain ~? 21 Yeah. 22 : I just told him that I 22 • - so, and you never 23 couldn't get any - I couldn't go back. They 23 talked to her -- 24 weren't recordin . 24 No. 25 : Okay. 25 -- about it again. EFTA00117180 1 2 3 : Hmm-mm. : All right. And did she know the cameras were down, or did she just 33 1 2 3 these were my documents that were in her office. 34 So, she said, hey, I just want to let you 4 know that having a problem rewinding? 4 know that I gave them to the warden, whoever 5 : I think she - to be honest 5 the warden was at that time, that was acting. 6 with you - she only knew that I had a problem 6 And he stated he would give them to legal. 7 because I couldn't playback that one unit. 7 Okay. 8 9 10 11 recause : Okay. that's the unit that 9 8 we were looking at, which were the cadre units, 10 that they go home and go different places. 11 MA : nd that was it. : And that's regarding your memo that we have right here? : All of my documents. 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 Because after we couldn't find that inmate, she 12 kind of Oust left. spoken with AW : Okay. And have you since we last spoke? No. No. No? 13 14 15 16 17 18 II : Okay. Yeah. : All right. : This would have been included And what about -- in a pile of documents. 19 So, you didn't talk about 19 -- and what about Captain 20 this matter with her? 20 ? Have you spoken with him since we last 21 : No. I just received, I want 21 spoke? 22 to say an email, or it might have been - I 22 No. 23 24 25 1 2 3 35 can't even say it was after or before, but I 23 did receive notification from her that she CC'd 24 me on an email about my documentation because 25 : Do you recall the video that 1 you were trying to pull up on August 8th? When 2 you were trying to rewind. Were you trying to 3 : Not at all? : I haven't seen him. : Okay. : And what is 5-South? 36 : 5-South was the cadre unit. : The cadre unit. 4 rewind the video for just that day, or from a 4 : Yes. 5 previous 5 : All right. And can you 6 : I was trying to go back to 6 just explain, briefly, what does the cadre unit 7 that day, at that time -- 7 mean? 8 : So, for August 8th. 8 : The cadre units are inmates 9 : -- yes. 9 that was designated to MCC New York. So, they 10 : Not August 7th, 6th, or 10 was very in custody inmates, out custody 11 anything like that. 11 inmates, community custody inmates, but their 12 No. 12 designation was to MCC New York. 13 Okay. 13 : So, does that mean 14 No. 14 general population, or is it something 15 And you said it was 5- 15 different than general population? 16 South? 16 : No. They're general 17 : It was 5 -. It was, I think 17 population. 18 we were looking at 5-South and the S-South 18 : Okay. 19 sally port. That may be a little foreign. 19 res. They call them the work 20 It's like the hallway. 20 cadres. So, they work around the building, in 21 Yeah, sure. 21 diffeiriiiiiiiiitments. 22 23 24 25 r : In between the two doors. 22 : That's where the elevator is. 23 : And what -. : Right. 24 25 : So, I'm going to clarify that a little bit. A majority of MCC New York, are the inmates awaiting trial? : Yes. Pre-trial. EFTA00117181 37 38 1 : Pre-trial. Cadre unit, are 1 orderlies? 2 those inmates already sentenced? 2 : Well, any inmate that work, 3 Yes. 3 even pre-trial inmates who have a job is known 4 : So, these are post-sentence 4 as orderlies. 5 6 7 inmates. They are assigned to, already sentenced and they're -- : Okay. Assigned to MCC New 5 6 7 r Okay. 3ut cadres, do they get to leave the facility? 8 York. 8 Some do. 9 : -- yeah. And now, these 9 : Some. They get to leave MCC, 10 cadre inmates, do they have any special 10 some work as town drivers? 11 privile es? 11 Right. 12 : I wouldn't say special 12 : They go to the warehouse. 13 privileges, but some do. Meaning, they can 13 Come back. 14 work. 14 t es. 15 : Work. And what kind of work 15 : Okay. 16 do the do? 16 : Some do. Yes. 17 : You have some on the electric 17 : So, they are, like, low 18 detail. Some on the plumbing detail. You have 18 risk inmates? 19 the outside detail, which was the Dayton Manor 19 : They're supposed to be, yes. 20 detail. 20 : Okay. 21 : So, they get to move around a 21 Yes. 22 little bit? 22 111 : .1But these are sentenced 23 They move around. 23 inmates that have permanent - at that point, 24 25 1 IIM : Okay. : Are they known as Okay. 39 1 24 25 they iviiiiiiiined to MCC. : Yes. 40 the halfway house - we were going to go to the 2 : Okay. 2 halfway house and speak to him. 3 : Anything else on -? 3 Okay. 4 : I guess the last question 4 Okay. I'm going to move on. 5 I would say is, do you know what it was you 5 Co ahead. 6 were trying to watch? Like, what happened that 6 : I have a document here. 7 causeiliiiiiiiiry to watch the 5-South video? 7 : Yeah. 8 : I do. I can't recall the 8 : This states, for the record, 9 inmate's name. We were looking for him because 9 number 104, timestamp 9:00, August 2019. Can 10 we suspected that he was involved with an 10 you let us know what we're looking at? 11 incident that OIG Agent (Phonetic Sp. 11 : I don't know what this is. 12 *00:28:00) was looking into, and myself. 12 So, this was provided by , from the com 13 So, this inmate name kept coming up. I 13 shop. 14 can't remember if it was phones or, you know, 14 : Okay. So, provided 15 narcotics. I can't remember. But his name 15 this to who? 16 kept coming up. And me and IIII IIII stated, 16 To me. 17 okay, we're going to talk to this inmate 17 : To you? 18 together, to see if he had any role in what we 18 : And I turned this over to OIG 19 were looking at. 19 because they requested the call. The call 20 And me and I. talked, then I said, this, 20 logs. 21 IIII, this inmate got released. And that's 21 So, is that -- 22 what made me go and try to see exactly when he 22 So, this is the call log. 23 got released, you know, let me track what time 23 But this is foreign except for the date and the 24 he got released, because me and had even 24 end date. 25 spoke about going to - if he got released to 25 : So, you wouldn't understand, EFTA00117182 41 42 1 you wouldn't know what this is about? 1 9th, 2019. So, it's the same date, right? And 2 I just know it's a call log. 2 the start time is 18:58:03. So, that means 3 : Okay. 3 6:58 o.m. 4 : Because this is what he gave 4 : Okay. 5 me. So, I'm assuming this is the date somebody 5 : The answer time is 6:58:22. 6 made a call. Again, the end and time. What 6 So, that means 7 time the other person answered. Just from 7 Mm-hmm. 8 looking up here, at the top of it. Everything 8 6:58 p.m. And the end 9 down here, I don't know. 9 time is 19:19. That's 7:59 p.m. 10 : Now, did give that to 10 Okay. Yeah. 11 you based on a request that you asked him for? 11 : So, the call, it seems that 12 Did you ask him for a call, a specific call 12 it lasted about 21 minutes. 13 log? 13 : About 20 minutes. Yeah. 14 want to -. 14 Again, whatever call logs that I asked him for 15 16 . time, and then -- : Well, read the date and 15 was call logs that was asked from OIG of me, 16 hey, I need the call log. They asked for it. 17 So 17 I know they asked for the Special Housing 18 -- maybe that will help. 18 Units. How man hones were up there. And -- 19 -- the start date on this is 19 : And by looking at that, 20 August 9th. 20 are you able to tell if that was a Special 21 Mm-hmm. 21 Housin' Unit call? 22 : 2019. The answer date is 22 : I don't know. 23 August 9th, 2019. 23 : Does it show anything on 24 : Mm-hmm. 24 there, 25 : And the end date is August 25 : There is a caller station, 43 44 1 there is numbers and everything, but it doesn't 1 whatever hone numbers that OIG asked me for. 2 state s ecificall . 2 : Okay. Now, as far as the 3 : Okay. Do you know 3 information that you just said, which unit 4 anybody that made a call from the MCC on August 4 manager rovided who a call? 5 9th, 2019, at approximately 7:00 p.m. that 5 : It's my understanding that 6 would be of interest for people that were 6 Unit Mana er gave Mr. Epstein the call. 7 investi atin ? 7 Okay. Sometime on, in 8 : I don't know. 8 the niiiiiiiiiigust 9th, 2019? 9 : So, do you know anything 9 : Mm-hmm. That's my 10 about Epstein calling and placing a telephone 10 understanding. But that was just hearsay. 11 call from the SHU on August 9th, 2019? 11 People speaking. I didn't witness him give a 12 : Only word of mouth, that I 12 phone call. No. 13 heard when I got there on the 10th, that he - I 13 : But you don't know if 14 want to say the unit manager gave him a call - 14 that's the call log for him? 15 because that was the discussion - the unit 15 : I have no idea. 16 manager gave him a call to his mother. 16 : Okay. 17 And at that point, they were saying his 17 : And based on that, if this 18 mother was dead. And I don't know if this is 18 was the request for that, if this was the 19 the call, because I don't know how to read it, 19 request for that call log, and this was what 20 but I did hear that part of it. 20 the communications tech pulled up, the call log 21 : And do you remember if 21 that he pulled up, and this is for the SHU, 22 you asked for that specific information? 22 would this be the phone number listed on the 23 Did E stein lace a call? 23 call lo ? 24 : I wouldn't have asked him did 24 : Oh, I don't know. 25 he place a call? I would have asked him 25 : Okay. EFTA00117183 45 46 1 : Because I wouldn't have had 1 -- yeah. Give her some 2 the number. 2 context to that. 3 Okay. 3 I'm going to read. 4 : And we'll just have her 4 : So, when someone gets a 5 initial and date both of these. 5 pack and PIN, or they're able to use the inmate 6 : No problem. On both these 6 telephone system, would they have to sign 7 documents, lust initial and date -- 7 something called an Acknowledgement of Inmate 8 . So -- 8 form, BP-408? 9 : Okay. 9 : I'm not sure. Because I've 10 : -- not attesting to it, it's 10 never dealt with their pack and PIN numbers. 11 just that, these are the documents we showed 11 So, I'm going to read you 12 you. 12 this. I'm just going to read you this, so that 13 No problem. 13 you can kind of get a -- 14 : And one is the memo from 14 It's going to be separate. 15 August 10th, and the other is the call log from 15 -- full. Well, and you 16 August 9th. 16 go. Because ou -- 17 Okay. 17 Okay. 18 : And again, it's 3/16/22. 18 -- probably understand 19 : Yes, sir. 19 more. Go ahead. 20 : Do you know what 20 : So, do you know anything 21 of Inmate form BP-408 is? 21 about pack and PINs? When an inmate is 22 : BP-408? Oh, I've been out a 22 assigned PINs? 23 while. BP-408. I'm not sure what -. 23 : Vaguely. A little about the 24 Give her some -- 24 pack and PIN numbers. 25 UM,- could you -- 25 : Okay. So, do you know if 47 48 1 Epstein was assigned a pack and PIN? 1 give the phone call to the inmate, and log it 2 Oh, I don't know. 2 in the le al call back. 3 : Okay. Well, our 3 : But you're not aware of 4 understanding was Epstein needed to be assigned 4 any kind of form that they need to sign as 5 a pack and PIN, and because he was at attorney 5 opposed the logbook? 6 conference all the time, he was never available 6 : I'm not sure because that 7 for a pack and PIN to be set up for him. 7 would be unit team. 8 And what we're trying to find out is, if 8 Okay. But you're not - 9 Epstein was ever assigned a pack and PIN, and 9 you don't remember a BP-408, an Acknowledgement 10 if he was assigned a pack and PIN, did he ever 10 of Inmate form, or what it is? 11 sign a form called Acknowledgement of Inmate 11 : No. 12 form, BP-408? 12 • Okay. 13 Oh, I don't know. 13 : Where would we find that? If 14 : What about if an inmate 14 that's a form that we're looking for, inmate 15 is afforded a legal call? Do they have to sign 15 had signed something like that, where would 16 a form? 16 that .t.bel 17 : Normally, they request the 17 : I would think it would be in 18 legal call. This is my knowledge of being a 18 the inmate's central file. 19 lieutenant. They put a cop-out into their unit 19 : And that would be in the 20 team, requesting that a legal phone call, and 20 central office? 21 somebody from their unit team will come up with 21 : And I would think the unit 22 a logbook, I guess after they verify that that 22 team members would have the central file in 23 is their attorneys number, and they tell the 23 their area. 24 attorney, okay, we're going to set up this 24 : Okay. And if the inmate was 25 phone call for 10:00. Then they will go up and 25 in the SHU, it would be in the SHU? EFTA00117184 49 50 1 : It would still be with the 1 email, providing the inmates' name and register 2 unit team that the inmate was assigned to. 2 number, the date and time of the call, the 3 : Okay. And now, I'm going to 3 number and name of the individual called, and 4 read you a paragraph here. This is about 4 the reason for the call. SIS must enter this 5 federal re ulations. 5 information into the telephone recording system 6 : Okay. 6 within seven days." 7 : "Federal regulations require 7 : Okay. 8 that the warden of each BOP institution 8 : Do you recall if you ever got 9 establish procedures to monitor inmate 9 notified about a call like this for Mr. 10 telephone conversations, which is done to 10 Epstein? 11 preserve the security and orderly managing of 11 : No. 12 the institution, and to protect the public. 12 : Okay. Was it standard 13 For safety and security reasons, BOP 13 practice at MCC if an inmate was ever afforded 14 policy requires that all inmate telephone calls 14 a call like this, would you ever get an email? 15 be made through the inmate telephone system, 15 : No. I've never gotten an 16 ITS. BOP policy recognizes that on rare 16 email. 17 occasion, in times of crisis, inmates may be 17 : Were you ever been aware 18 permitted to make a telephone call outside of 18 of this re uirement? 19 the ITS. 19 : No. 20 In such circumstance, the telephone must 20 : Were you ever aware that 21 be placed in a secure area; example, in a 21 inmates were given calls like this where a unit 22 locked office, and must be set to record 22 team member, let's just say if an inmate wasn't 23 telephone calls. Additionally, the staff 23 given a pack and PIN, a unit team member would 24 member coordinating the call must notify the 24 sometimes plug a line in to the legal line, and 25 BOP Special Investigative Services (SIS) via 25 would let them make phone calls to personal -- 51 52 1 : No. 1 calls, and we can identify anything that was 2 : -- family members? 2 abnormal. 3 : I didn't know. 3 : And I know this is Monday 4 : Do you know if that was 4 morning quarterbacking the situation, but a 5 againiiiiiiiiilif they did something like that? 5 situation like this, with Mr. Epstein, the fact 6 : In my opinion, yes, it's 6 of the circumstances that surrounded what 7 against policy because the legal line is for a 7 happened between August 9th and 10th, looking 8 legal hone call. 8 back that he was allowed to make a phone call 9 : And what happens if they were 9 like that on August 9th, should that have been 10 to allowed to do something like that? 10 allowed? 11 : What happens to who? 11 No. In my opinion, no. 12 : No. What happens if an 12 : Why not? 13 inmate is allowed to -? What is a call like 13 : It goes back to what I 14 that, if they have to make a call to a 14 stated. We have no way of monitoring those 15 personal, a personal call, why does the call 15 phone calls. So, we don't know if - you know, 16 have to be made on a recorded line? 16 just an example - if I may, we don't know if it 17 : Because it can be a safety 17 was to intimidate a witness. 18 issue if they have an unmonitored call, because 18 We just don't know the context of the call 19 there's no way for us to go back and listen to 19 because we can't go back to listen. We don't 20 the call. It could have been a threat. You 20 even know in the call if he was saying, hey, 21 know, it could have been something that could 21 I'm feeling like this, because you have no way 22 have just been a catastrophe, and that you have 22 of goin back and listening to that call. 23 no way of knowing. 23 : And being that someone, that 24 That's why we have that ICS system in 24 he was allowed to make that phone call, should 25 place, so we can go back and listen to the 25 someone have been standing there with him, EFTA00117185 1 2 3 4 monitory' that phone call? : Yes. : Okay. And should that have 53 been logged up? Should that have been a log? 4 1 3 w _ : No. Disregard. okay. : You can move on. : No problem. Now, we're 54 5 That a call like that was made. 5 movin on to Au ust 10th. 6 Yes. 6 Okay. 7 : Okay. Anything else on that? 7 : Would there be a record of 8 : You just have a question 8 the exact time Correctional Officer Tova Noel 9 here. On that last note. 9 pushed the emergency button on her radio? Like 10 : The call log? 10 11 : This one. Sorry. 11 : I'm not too sure if -. I 12 : Oh. I think she answered 12 know when you key up the radios, they do 13 that. 13 register on the control panels. In the control 14 : Okay. 14 center. But I don't know if that's recorded, 15 rou mentioned before the call 15 where they can run, like, that's how they ran 16 log that we showed you, that's the call log -- 16 the telephone log. I'm not too sure. Only Mr. 17 : Oh, that's the log -- 17 will know that because he's a com shop. 18 M- that's the -- 18 : So, he would be able to pull 19 : I thought you were 19 it up? 20 talking about this other log that you just 20 : Maybe. He would be the 21 mentioned. 21 only one -- 22 : No, no, no. 22 : He would be the only one -- 23 : I'm sorry. 23 -- to answer. 24 : That call log that you said 24 -- that -- 25 that -- 25 E .: Could answer it. 55 56 1 : -- would know if you can go 1 2 back fi l.11those timeframes up. 2 : Is it separate from the 3 : So, just to run through the 3 radio? 4 day. Let's just say Michael Thomas, Tova Noel, 4 : -- no. 5 the situation, they're up there on the tier, 5 : Or no, no. It's a button on 6 and the discover Epstein. 6 the radio 7 Yes. 7 : It's just a button on the 8 in : And they wanted to hit the - 8 radio. 9 they wanted to notify control, hey, there is an 9 -- okay. 10 emergence. How would they notify control? 10 : And once you hit that body 11 : They should hit their body 11 alarm, it goes throughout the whole building, 12 alarms which -- 12 on eviiiiiiiiiradio. 13 Which is located where? 13 : And at least one officer in 14 -- on their radio. 14 the SHU is assigned that? 15 : So, they both have a radio, 15 : At least one officer should 16 or juiiiiiiiiiison? 16 have the bod alarm in the SHU. 17 : Up in the SHU, they both 17 : So, it's just a special 18 should have radios. But I don't know if they 18 radio that has an alarm? 19 both had radios. But I know a body alarm is 19 Yes. 20 assigned to the Special Housing. 20 : But it's called the body 21 : It's assigned. And the body 21 alarm? 22 alarm is where? 22 They're called body alarms. 23 : The body alarm, one of the 23 : Okay. 24 officers have to carry it. I'm not too sure if 24 In : . What does it look like on the 25 they all do. I really can't remember. But I - 25 radio? EFTA00117186 57 58 1 : It's an orange button. 1 they should be. 2 Orange or red button. 2 : What about if you are 3 : And when they hit it, 3 assigned the housing unit? Are you allowed to 4 everyiiiiiiiiliotified? 4 leave the housing unit? 5 : It goes across all the 5 No. 6 radios. 6 No. 7 : And what is normal practice? 7 : You're not supposed to, no. 8 Like, once it hits, what transpires? 8 : But if, let's say you're 9 : Whoever is in the building 9 internal and you're moving around, you're 10 responds to that area. When you hit that body 10 supposed to respond? 11 alarm, it pops on the control panel, and a big 11 Yes. 12 screen, and we can see exactly where it's 12 : So, as long as you're not 13 cominiiiiiiiiii 13 assigned to a housing unit, and you're just 14 : Okay. And is that the 14 there in the facility, you're supposed to 15 control officer? 15 respond? 16 : The control officer will call 16 Right. 17 it. You know, we have a body alarm in the 17 Is there certain officer 18 Special Unit. 18 " to respond for emergencies? 19 20 respond? : And who is supposed to 19 20 that,' assignment. : No. There is no specific 21 : Normally, everybody who has a 21 : Okay. What is the average 22 radio and who is not supervising inmates 22 time it takes for additional correctional 23 respond to that area. 23 officers to respond in a case of emergency? 24 : Every supervisor? 24 : Normally, within two to three 25 : If they're in the building, 25 minutes. 59 60 1 : But it's not, like, oh, yeah, 1 everything that transpires when an emergency 2 and you ring the, you put the - or you press 2 happens? 3 the body alarm, it's like a matter of seconds, 3 : What do you mean, a log of 4 oh, yeah, someone is there, it takes about two 4 everythin 5 to three minutes on average? 5 : Let's just say -- 6 : Yes. If somebody is there in 6 -- that transpires? 7 a matter of seconds, that mean they're right 7 -- like, the stuff that comes 8 outside the door when that alarm went out, but 8 over the radio. Like, the calls that come 9 most of the time, we have to get elevators, we 9 over, and when a body alarm is hit, do they 10 have to run up the stairs. So, we have to get 10 keep track of, hey, this call came over the 11 to the area. 11 call , or iis ierson responded. 12 : Okay. Is there one officer 12 : The practice should be, once 13 controllin the elevator? 13 the body alarm goes off, that control center 14 : The control center is 14 has a logbook, as well. So, the control center 15 controllin the elevator. 15 officer should have that in their logbook. 16 : So, that control officer 16 7:15, a body alarm went off in the Special 17 would have to know where the officers -- 17 Housin Unit, for example. 18 : To pick -- 18 Okay. 19 : -- are going? 19 : And if I was the responding 20 : -- everybody up. Because 20 lieutenant, and I cleared that body alarm, 21 everybody will come across the radio. Hey, 21 let's say at 7:20, that logbook should also 22 pick me up on two. Pick me up on three. Pick 22 sa 7:20, body alarm cleared by Lieutenant 23 me up on four. So, that officer has to start 23 24 pickiii.om every floor. 24 : Okay. And this logbook, it's 25 : Do they keep a log of 25 called the control officer logbook? EFTA00117187 61 62 1 Yes. 1 been relieved for their shift -- 2 : Okay. Okay. 2 Yes. 3 : How often do body alarms 3 : -- should -. 4 go off? Or would they, around that time? Is 4 : You still should respond 5 that, like, a daily occurrence, or is it 5 because you're physically still in the 6 weekl or -? 6 7 : I want to say almost daily, 7 : Okay. And would that 8 it's bod alarms. 8 operations lieutenant have given back their 9 : Okay. So, people are 9 radio, though, already if they were already 10 very familiar with what to do when a body alarm 10 relieved? Or would they still have a radio on 11 11 them? 12 Yes. 12 : If they're sitting in the 13 -- goes off. Now, just a 13 office, well, let me backtrack so I don't seem 14 quick question. If an operations lieutenant is 14 confusing. The operations lieutenant that was 15 relieved at, like, 6:00 a.m., let's say, or 15 relieved would turn the radio up to the 16 prior, the alarm goes off at 6:33, but that 16 relieving lieutenant. 17 operations lieutenant is still in the building, 17 So, we're not assigned individual radios. 18 working on documentation, would that operations 18 You have one assigned for operations 19 lieutenant, even though they've been relieved, 19 lieutenant, and one assigned for activities 20 would the be required to respond -- 20 lieutenant. So, if I relieve you, , I'm 21 They should. Yes. 21 going to give you - you're going to give me 22 NIM -- they should still 22 your radio and our keys. 23 respond? 23 : So, if that person was 24 Yes. 24 relieved, and then is working on documentation, 25 : So, even though they've 25 how would they know that a body alarm was 63 64 1 activated? 1 the restroom, is what you mean? 2 : Normally, you hear it. 2 : Yes. 3 : Oh, so, everyone could 3 Okay. 4 hear it? 4 : And then, the lieutenant's 5 : Yeah. You hear it. 5 office, the way it's set up in MCC New York, is 6 : Okay. So, like, because 6 we also have the Nice camera system set up with 7 it's a loud sound? 7 big screen TVs, as such. So, if you are there 8 : Yes. 8 and you see people running, your first instinct 9 : Does it go throughout the 9 going to be, what's going on? Everybody is 10 institution? Or just on the radios? 10 runnin. 11 : It just go on the radios, but 11 Okay. 12 it's really loud. So, even if somebody is 12 : So, if you're still in the 13 using the bathroom, if they have their radio, 13 office, and -- 14 you hear it. 14 If you're in the office. 15 : Okay. 15 -- office, and you're still 16 : You hear it. 16 doing work -- 17 : Like, as in, like, if a 17 Mm-hmm. 18 radio is going off outside of the bathroom, 18 -- you should be able to see. 19 even if they don't have their radio in the 19 Yes, because I think it's 20 bathroom is that what you mean? 20 about three or four big screen TVs in there. 21 : You'll hear it. 21 : Now, is it a requirement 22 Okay. So -- 22 that tl as esond, or just they should respond? 23 : You'll hear it. 23 : I don't, I can't recall a 24 • -- the person using the 24 policy on if you've been relieved, but you 25 restroom would hear a radio that was outside of 25 definitely should respond. EFTA00117188 65 66 1 Okay. Would that be a 1 here, on L-tier, 220-U, and 220-L. Who are the 2 sound correctional judgment? 2 inmatiiiiiiiiiid on there? 3 t es. 3 : Inmate and Inmate 4 : Okay. 4 Epstein. 5 : I'm going to move on. 5 : What is C/F? You see the 6 : Yup. 6 letters next to Epstein's name, it says C/F? 7 : I'm going to, this document 7 C/F. 8 that I'm showing you -- 8 Yes. 9 : Yes. 9 : What does that mean? 10 : -- is dated Friday, August 10 : Common fear. Common fear 11 9th, 2019. And then, the back is dated 11 meal. Meaning, he got some kind of, I don't 12 Saturday, August 10th, 2019. Can you let us 12 know what was his religion. 13 know what this document is? 13 : So, it's -- 14 : Yes. Well, this is called 14 But it's a religious -- 15 the SHU locator form. 15 -- yeah. 16 : What does that mean? 16 -- meal. 17 : It's basically all of the 17 Okay. 18 ranges in SHU, and the cell numbers, and the 18 : That's the common fear. 19 inmates that's assigned to the cells. 19 : I just wanted to get 20 : Okay. So, basically, a 20 clarification on that. 21 roster for the SHU. 21 Min-hmm. 22 : It's a roster for the SHU, 22 : Just have her initial and 23 cell assignments, who's the cell, assigned to 23 date it. 24 what cell. 24 Okay. 25 : Okay. And then, the bottom 25 : Next document, it states 67 68 1 "United States Department of Justice, Federal 1 : Hmm. I don't think so. 2 Bureau of Prisons, MCC New York. Transfer 2 Because I've never seen it. As a lieutenant, I 3 Receipt." This is dat2iLlijja, August 9th, 3 would have seen it, and if we had good officers 4 2019. Received from IIIIIIIIII. Warden MCC 4 in there, I would have received a copy, as 5 New York. "Following United States prisoners." 5 well. I've only seen the rosters. The 6 Sorry it's a little tough to read. 6 physical rosters. Never the transfer receipts 7 No. 7 go out to the unit. 8 IIIIIIIIII: "Prisoners together with 8 And when you say it's a 9 complete files for transfer as indicated WAB, 9 transfer receipt, does that mean that it's 10 USMS, SONY." What is this document? 10 created after the prisoner is transferred? 11 I have -. This is an R&O -. 11 : I don't know. 12 : So, you've never seen one of 12 13 these documents? 14 : Documents. I don't know what 14 15 that is. Well, it's a transfer receipt. But I 15 13 16 don't know when they do it, and for, obviously, 16 EM : Okay. : I don't know. : The signature on that bottom. Do you recognize that name by any chance? : No. 17 why the do it. I don't know. 17 : Okay. 18 : But you've never seen one of 18 : (Indiscernible *00:50:39). I 19 these before? 19 don't know who that is. 20 : No. I've never physically 20 Okay. No problem. 21 seen the transfer receipt. 21 : Two minutes. Two 22 : And this is not, you don't 22 minutes. 23 think this is one of those documents that goes 23 : And this is just the last 24 out to the units, saying these are the inmates 24 set. 25 that are getting transferred? 25 : Sure. EFTA00117189 69 70 1 : What I'm showing you are 1 2 pictures. It is in black and white. 2 : Mm-hmm. 3 Unfortunately, we were not able to print it in 3 : -- to us, in color, it looks 4 color. There's two pictures here. I need - 4 like a curtain. 5 you to initial these after. 5 : No. It looks -. How can I - 6 Sure. 6 ? It's like a divider. 7 : These are, these pictures 7 : Okay. 8 were taken by the coroner's office, just to 8 : On wheels. 9 clarify. 9 : That's what we need you to 10 : Okay. 10 clari . So where is this picture taken? 11 : And these were taken at the 11 : I'm not too sure where they 12 MCC, just to clarify. These look like AED 12 took this icture at. 13 machines? 13 : The divider on wheels. Was 14 Yes. 14 this something that was brought up to the SHU, 15 : And do you know what this is? 15 or was this somewhere else? 16 : It looks like a -- 16 : I don't know. I don't know. 17 : (Indiscernible *00:51:24). 17 : Do you recall something like 18 . -- a home-made noose. 18 that, like, that was brough up into the SHU to 19 : A home-made noose. 19 cover up Epstein's cell, or was this brought in 20 : Yes. 20 the health center to help? 21 : Have you seen this before? 21 : I don't know. 22 : Yes. 22 : Would the divider be - if 23 : Do you know what this is? 23 an inmate committed suicide - would a divider 24 And to us, in the - because it's in black and 24 be put up outside of his cell so that other 25 white, and I know in the picture it looks black 25 inmates can't see what's going on? 71 72 1 : I've never seen a divider put 1 : Nothing that I thought about. 2 up. 2 I felt like you guys touched on everything when 3 : Okay. 3 we spoke. 4 5 6 7 IM : Since I've been a lieutenant. 4 :M Okay. No problem. Can you initial and date? : Do you know if there was 7 : Well, thank you again for 5 taking the time -- 6 : No problem. -- to talk to us. 8 a divider put up after Epstein was removed, so 8 Any time. 9 that - because it was a crime scene? 9 All right. Thank you, 10 : I don't know. When I got 10 thank 11 there there was no divider up. 11 No problem. 12 • Okay. So, you don't 12 • Oh, and just, you still 13 recall -- 13 are a lieutenant, you said? Correct? 14 : Once I arrived. No. 14 Yes. 15 -- you don't recall -- 15 : And you're right now 16 : I didn't see -- 16 assigned to the MDC 17 -- a divider. 17 Yes. 18 -- a divider. 18 -- but on leave? 19 : Okay. 19 Yes. 20 No. 20 : Okay. But you're 21 : Since the last time we spoke, 21 expecting to return to the MDC? 22 was there anything else that came to mind you 22 : Yes. 23 think that you would want to share with us, 23 • Okay. Thank you. 24 anything else that you think would be pertinent 24 : You're welcome. 25 to our investigation? 25 : This is Special Agent EFTA00117190 73 74 1 The time is 10:48 a.m., and we are CERTIFICATE 2 stopping the recorder. I hereby certify that the foregoing pages 3 represent an accurate transcript of the 4 electronic sound recording of the proceedings 5 before the Department of Justice, Office of the 6 Inspector General in the matter of: 7 8 Interview of 9 10 11 12 , Transcriber 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 EFTA00117191