From: Joscha Bach
To: Jeffrey Epstein <jeevacation@gmail.com>
Subject: Re:
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2017 19:44:08 +0000
Attachments: Minimal_goal_directed_systems.pdf
So you don't think that practical intelligence is the ability to build arbitrary prosthetics?
I agree that humans share an important similarity with cells, i.e. they have mechanisms that suppress individual
competition when it conflicts too much with group selection. Without such mechanisms, group selection fails,
because within each group, defectors have a local advantage.
The simplest mechanism to enforce cooperation is reputation, but it works only when others are looking, and
manage to keep tallies. To do better than that, evolution has to breed a virtual next level regulator into the
individual, which may be your missing "top down for humans". A system of norms and taboos, for instance a
religion or ideology that people pick up from their environment.
Individuals can decide, but in social contexts, the utility of decisions is given by how well we understand the
constraints under which we operate.
Am Mar 6, 2017 um 10:50 AM schrieb jeffrey E. <jeevacation@gmail.com>:
no, i disagree , the spaceship is only an advanced prostthetic. . . not interesting at all. . interesting is we
have no idea what the top down for humans is. . collective . group behavior, I dont see any diffemce
between humans and cells , just a different layer of the same. . regulatory systems. actions feedbacks and
" learning " ,. all with no goal . the goals are illusions.. that the indiv thinks they decide. like the soldier ant
that is recapitualted to a garbage ant if the garbage ants are wiped out. the soldier ant thinks it made the
decsion. .
On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 11:25 AM, Joscha Bach wrote:
Exactly! Sensors like that are often one of these solution that get you 80% of the way with 20% of the effort.
Except that minds that take 15 years to train are o dramatically more expensive that almost no species can
afford them (but they end up getting you to the moon, which no prosthesis can).
Am Mar 6, 2017 urn 7:08 AM schrieb Jeffrey E. <jeevacation@gmail.com>:
they may have physical prothesitcs like cat whiskers. to enable it to guage widith of hole.
On Sun, Mar 5, 2017 at 8:03 PM, Joscha Bach < > wrote:
Most animals don't have a self model, probably because they don't have complex enough brains or long
enough training phases (childhoods) to do meta-regulation.
> On Mar 5, 2017, at 16:48, jeffrey E. <jeevacation@gmail.com> wrote:
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> Law of large numbers is all that is needed
> On Sun, Mar 5, 2017 at 5:46 PM Joscha Bach < > wrote:
> From a cybernetics perspective, there is Ashby's "Good Regulator" theorem, which states that every
regulator with enough degrees of freedom will form a model of what it regulates. The Self is perhaps at
its core a model of our own internal attention regulation, which leads to a protocol of what we attended
to, including acts of accessing that protocol itself.
> I am not sure how to relate that to game theory; you may be able to get that without evolutionary
competition. However, game theory is probably the way to explain how we evolve submission to norms
beyond indirect reciprocity.
> > On Mar 5, 2017, at 12:12, jeffrey E. <jeevacation@gmail.com> wrote:
> > i wonder in game theory what advantage it gives. .
> > On Sun, Mar 5, 2017 at 12:11 PM, Joscha Bach <a. wrote:
> > absolutely. so are truth and meaning
> > Am 05.03.2017 um 11:52 schrieb Jeffrey E. <jeevacation@gmail.com>:
>>> i is a mental construct that gives an evolutionary advantage , .
>»
>>> On Sun, Mar 5, 2017 at 11:29 AM, Joscha Bach < > wrote:
>>> I believe that I think, but am "I" the agent of thinking?
>»
»>
>»
>»
>»
>>> > On Mar 5, 2017, at 08:34, jeffrey E. <jeevacation@gmail.com> wrote:
>>»
»> > I sugggest the expression really should be "I think, therefore I believe I am "
>>»
>>»
>>»
>>»--
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>»
> » --
>» please note
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>» the use of the addressee. It is the property of
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> please note
> > The information contained in this communication is
> > confidential, may be attorney-client privileged, may
> > constitute inside information, and is intended only for
» the use of the addressee. It is the property of
> > JEE
> > Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this
> > communication or any part thereof is strictly prohibited
> > and may be unlawful. If you have received this
> > communication in error, please notify us immediately by
> > return e-mail or by e-mail to jeevacation@gmail.com, and
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please note
> The information contained in this communication is
> confidential, may be attorney-client privileged, may
> constitute inside information, and is intended only for
> the use of the addressee. It is the property of
> JEE
> Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this
> communication or any part thereof is strictly prohibited
> and may be unlawful. If you have received this
> communication in error, please notify us immediately by
> return e-mail or by e-mail to jeevacation@gmail.com, and
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please note
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The information contained in this communication is
confidential, may be attorney-client privileged, may
constitute inside information, and is intended only for
the use of the addressee. It is the property of
JEE
Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this
communication or any part thereof is strictly prohibited
and may be unlawful. If you have received this
communication in error, please notify us immediately by
return e-mail or by e-mail to jeevacation@gmail.com, and
destroy this communication and all copies thereof,
including all attachments. copyright -all rights reserved
please note
The information contained in this communication is
confidential, may be attorney-client privileged, may
constitute inside information, and is intended only for
the use of the addressee. It is the property of
JEE
Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this
communication or any part thereof is strictly prohibited
and may be unlawful. If you have received this
communication in error, please notify us immediately by
return e-mail or by e-mail to jeevacation@gmail.com, and
destroy this communication and all copies thereof,
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