EFTA00723310

Page UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA CASE NO.: 08-CIV-80119-MARRA/JOHNSON JANE DOE NO. 2, Plaintiff, -vs- VOLUME I OF II JEFFREY EPSTEIN, Defendant. / Related cases: 08-80232, 08-08380, 08-80381, 08-80994, 08-80993, 08-80811, 08-80893, 09-80469, 09-80591, 09-80656, 09-80802, 09-81092 / VIDEO-CONFERENCED AND VIDEOTAPED COMPULSORY MEDICAL EVALUATION OF JANE DOE NO. 5 Friday, November 20, 2009 9:18 - 6:55 p.m. 250 Australian Avenue Suite 1500 West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Reported By: Cynthia Hopkins, RPR, FPR Notary Public, State of Florida Prose Court Reporting Services PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. EFTA00723310 Page 2 Page 4 1 APPEARANCES: 1 A. Okay. 2 On behalf of the Plaintiff 2 Q. This is probably going to be an all-day 3 JESSICA D. ARBOUR, ESQUIRE MERMELSTEIN &14OROWITZ, PA. 3 thing. This is not an endurance test. So, at any 4 18205 Biscayne Boulevard 4 time you need to take a break, want to get a Suite 2218 5 cigarette smoke, use the restroom, get some water? 6 A. Okay? Pha e: 7 Q. It's not a problem. Just let me know. 6 E-mail: 8 7 A. Okay. 8 9 Q. And we'll stop the tape. The tape 9 ALSO PRESENT: 10 switches over about every two hours, so we kind of 10 11 have little built-in breaks any way. 11 D. 12 A. Yeah, she told me that 12 Paralegal, 13 Burman, Crftton, Luther & Coleman Q. Pm a, fin a psychiatrist I have been 13 14 asked to do what they call an independent medical 14 Sextet Quimby, Videographer 15 examination. This is in the context of the lawsuit Visual Evidence, Incorporated 16 that's going on. I think you're aware of that. 15 17 A. Yes. 16 17 18 Q. Usually when you see a doctor, there is a 18 19 notion of confidentiality, that anything you say to 19 20 the doctor will stay in the room and not be reported 20 21 others. Since this is being done for the court, 21 22 anything you tell me may end up in my report. 22 23 23 A. Yes. 24 24 Q. A copy of my report will go to both 25 25 attorneys, and the judge may or may not see it. I, Page 3 Page 5 1 EXAMINATION 1 you know, some of the mechanics I don't fully 2 2 understand. 3 DR. HALL Thank you. 3 A. Okay. 4 JANE DOE NO. 5: I sign here? 4 Q. But it's not confidential. 5 DR HALL: Yes, please. 5 A. Yeah, I understand that. 6 JANE DOE NO. 5: Is that it for this one? 6 Q. Also usually when you see a doctor, there 7 DR. HALL: Yep. That one is a little 7 is the assumption that the doctor is going to treat 8 redundant, but the rest of them there is 8 you. I'm not going to be providing treatment 9 differences. 9 recommendations. 10 (Interruption at the door.) 10 A. Yeah. 11 DR. HALL: Yes. 11 Q. Or follow-up, whatever, yeah? 12 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Sorry to interrupt, 12 A. Yeah. 13 Doctor. Could you move the mic a little bit 13 Q. But I just want you to be aware of that 14 closer? 14 before we start. 15 DR HALL: You don't have to — the last 15 A. Okay. Understand. 16 one doesn't apply. 16 Q. Do you have any questions, concerns, 17 JANE DOE NO. 5: Yeah. 17 comments? 18 BY DR. HALL: 18 A. No. 19 Q. Now, live introduced myself a little bit 19 Q. No. Okay. How this works is we're going 20 before the depo got started and I overheard your 20 to kind of start, get some background information, 21 lawyer talking about speak slowly, clearly -- 21 kind of go through a lot of areas during the course 22 A. Yes. 22 of the day. And I will talk to you specifically 23 Q. — because it's being transcribed. So, 23 about the allegations of the episode of Mr. Epstein. 24 appreciate that. If you have any questions at any 24 And we'll have some testing at the end. 25 time, feel free to ask me. 25 A. Oka'. 2 (Pages 2 to 5) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. EFTA00723311 Page 6 Page 8 1 Q. All right. Usually around noon or I NW 1 A. No. 2 break for lunch and then come back 2 Q. Tell me about your family a little bit 3 A. Okay. . 3 A. Basically my mother and Mier got married, 4 Q. With all that said, could you tell me your 4 you know. I was born. And they got divorced. I was 5 name, please? 5 around the age of three. It's not accurate, but around 6 A. Jane Doe No. 5. 6 the age of three. 7 Q. Okay. When you were born? 7 Q. And it's okay to ballpark in general. A. October 27th, 1986. 8 A. Yeah,1 will be. You will notice I'm so 9 Q. Okay. Where were you born? 9 horrible with memory like time frames. 10 A. West Palm Beach. 10 Q. Okay. 11 Q. Okay. Any problems, complications, 11 A. I'm throwing them out. 12 problems with your birth that you're aware of? 12 Q. If I need something a little more 13 A. No. 13 specific - 14 Q. So, not born early, born late? 14 A. I will by to put, yeah — 15 A. I was bom late, actually, yes. 15 Q. Put it together. 16 Q. Do you know how late? 16 A. Okay. 17 A. I was supposed to be born October 15th on my 17 Q. And if you are kind of ballparkinp„ just 18 father's birthday. 18 let me know it's arotmd this or -- 19 Q. Okay. So it looks like roughly two weeks? 19 A. Twill. Trust me. I'm horrible. 20 A. Yes. 20 Q. Okay. So divorced around age duce? 21 Q. Okay. Did they have to induce your mom 21 A. Yes. She met my stepfather, which is 22 into labor or did it — 22 III They dated for a while. That's basically -- he's 23 A. No, she went into labor. 23 been with her fora long time. They are still together 24 Q. She went. Okay. Did you need to spend 24 today. I moved to Fort Lauderdale with them. You know, 25 any additional time in the hospital afterwards, 25 they got married at some point. I don't honestly Page 7 Page 9 1 PICU, NICU? 1 remember the age. I was probably around ten — 2 A. No. 2 Q. Okay. 3 Q. Or were you even boa in a hospital? 3 A. — whenSot married. They had, you know, 4 • A. I was bon in a hospital. 4 a daughter, We moved to South Carolina after 5 Q. Okay. 5 Fort Lauderdale. And I didn't really like it in South 6 A_ That I'm aware ofno, I didn't hear of any 6 Carolina. 7 complications after. 7 Q. Roughly how old were you when you were in 8 Q. Did you meet your normal developmental 8 South Carolina? 9 milestones such as walking and talking on time? 9 A. Twelve. 10 A. Yes. 10 Q. Okay. Middle school age? 11 Q. Any significant childhood illness? 11 A. Yes, it was middle school. It was around -- 12 A. As in medically? 12 think it was, actually it was eighth grade, I remember, 13 Q. Medically needed to be rehospitalized, 13 because I went to three different middle schools in 14 surgeries? 14 eighth grade. 15 A. The only thing I'm aware of is I had colic 15 Q. Okay. 16 when I was little. 16 A. 1went from Fort Lauderdale to South Carolina 17 Q. Okay. And everybody, or most everybody 17 and then back to Wellington -- 18 gets the chicken pox. Things like that. 18 Q. Okay. 19 A. Yes. 19 A. -- because I moved with my father because like 20 Q. That's not what I'm — 20 me and my stepfather were having problems and also at 21 A. Yeah. Pve had that. 21 school there was a lot of girls that wanted to, I guess 22 Q. Okay. Were you ever in foster care or 22 you put it, kill me. 23 taken way from you're biological parents? 23 Q. Okay. 24 A. No. 24 A. You know, harm me in some way. 25 q. Or Da ever involveST -29brinirif? 25 Q. Pm going to want to hear more about that 3 (Pages 6 to 9 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. EFTA00723312 Page 10 Page 12 1 later. 1 Q. Okay. Was this his first deployment or... 2 A. Yeah, rough draft. So I moved in with my 2 A. Yes. I mean, he's had little deployments like 3 father at the end ofmy eighth grade year. So this is 3 a month here, three weeks there, but this is his 4 my third middle school I'm attending now. And it was 4 first — 5 hard for me because I was close with my mother. And I 5 Q. Longterm. 6 moved with him, but he was gone a lot because he worked 6 A. — long deployment. 7 seven days a week. Now he's working six, but he was 7 Q. How long has he been in for? 8 working seven days a week and he wouldn't get home until 8 A. Four years this April, and he still has one 9 around, you know, 6 to 8:00 at night. 9 more year. 10 Q. Okay. 10 Q. Is he going to re-enlist or is he looking 11. A. So, and he was a single parent. And it was me 11 on — 12 and my brother with him. He has custody over my 12 A. He is - 13 brother. 13 Q. - various things? 14 Q. Okay. 14 A. - not sure because the economy is so 15 A. And basically I lived with him from there on 15 horrible. He would lace to become a 16 out. 16 firefighter-paramedic, but the economy is so bad at the 17 Q. Are you still with him now? 17 moment that everybody is waiting in line to do that, and 18 A. No, I'm mauled. So, actually right now I am 18 he is thinking about re-enlisting. 19 staying at his house because my husband is in the 19 Q. Okay. 20 military. So, he is going to be back in three weeks. 20 A. So, it's not for sure yet. 21 Q. Okay. What branch of the service? 21 Q. And how long have the two of you been 22 A. Navy. 22 married? 23 Q. Okay. And is he over in a combat zone or 23 A. Almost four years this December. No, three 24 is he just on -- 24 years. Pm sorry. Three years this December. 25 A. Yeah. 23 Q. Okay. So, is he — I guess you met him Page 11 Page 13 1 Q. -- regular ship deployment or... 1 before he went into the Navy? 2 A. Yeah. He is on a regular ship deployment. I 2 A. I've known him since — I met him actually the 3 mean, he's been to, you know, to Bahrain and Dubai, 3 first day I went to middle school when I went back to 4 things like that. But he is on his way back as of now. 4 Wellington. 5 He is not stopping at any more ports, but he has been in 5 Q. Okay. 6 the combat zone. Stufflike that. 6 A. I've known him since I was IZ 13, whenever I 7 Q. I'm trying to remember, that's considered 7 went back to middle school in West Palm, Wellington. 8 what, Zone 5 or Fleet 5 of the Navy, that area? 8 Q. All right. So, jumping back I think I got 9 A. 'have no idea. 9 more into the current family than kind of the — 10 Q. No idea? 10 A. Yeah. 11 A. I don't know. Pm not really sure about all 11 Q. — the original family there, but thank 12 that 12 13 Q. What type of ship is he on? 13 A. You're welcome. 14 A. He is on the USS Batten. 14 Q. Whatever the opportunity presents. How 15 Q. Okay. Is that a supply ship, frigate? 15 old is your mother? 16 A. Ifs a — 16 A. I think she's 45. Pm really terrible. 17 Q. Cruiser? 17 Q Approximately 45? 18 A. Ifs the — give me a second. For the 18 A. Forty-five, yeah. 19 helicopters the -- 19 Q. Has she had any health problems? 20 Q. Helicopter carrier? 20 A. She's had a couple lumps, but nothing 21 A. Ifs a carrier. 21 cancerous. 22 Q. Okay. How long was his deployment for? 22 Q. Okay. 23 A. It's been about, I'm guessing. I haven't even 23 A. But no. 24 averaged it out, but six to seven months. It's been a 24 Q. How did she deal with the lumps issues? 25 while. 25 A. My mom is the type of person, she would rather 4 (Pages 10 to 13) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. EFTA00723313 Page 14 adct 1G I not know. But I basically convinced her to go because 1 Q. I apologize. 2 cancer runs in my family. 2 A. That's okay. But she doesn't have her at the 3 Q. Okay. What do you think of the new 3 moment anymore. 4 guidelines on mammography and all that? 4 Q. Okay. So, how many is there biologic 5 A. As in - 5 kids, I mean you are related to by mother or father? 6 Q. Oh, they — 6 A. None. By both my mother and father, non:: / A. Sorry. 7 Q. No. ;3 Q. They just have the recommendations on A. They are all step. 9 breast cancer screening come out. 9 Q. All step. Any half? 10 A. Oh, did they? 10 A. Wait. 11 Q. (Inaudible.) 11 Q. Half is one parent. 12 A. I wasn't even aware of that. 12 A. Fin sony. Half, they are all half, not step. 13 Q. Yeah. Now they are debating on what the 13 Pm sorry. 14 proper op to do testing is — 14 Q. Not a problem. 15 A. Oh, really. 15 A. I'm a little tired today. 16 Q. — and therapies and all that, so. Okay. 16 Q. And again at any time if you misspeak and 17 So, you kind of encouraged mom to go get checked 17 you need to correct, that's — 18 out? 18 A. Yeah, which I will probably will be doing 19 A. Yes. 19 Q. Please do. So, what are the names of your 20 Q. Okay. And fortunately it's come back 20 siblings? 21 negative? 21 A. Okay. There is on my father side, that is 22 A. Yes. 22 M. He is 20 — I'm giving a guess because I have 23 Q. Is that something that was worrisome for 23 never met him. He is 27. I do speak to him on 24 you or... 24 Facebook. He's 27. And he is by my father. And I'm 25 A. Yeah. You know, my mom means a lot tome. 25 not sure who the woman is. My dad didn't know about him Page 15 Page 17 1 We've had our hard times but every mother and daughter 1 until he was like eight years old. 2 does. 2 Q. Okay. 3 Q. What's she do for a living? 3 A. Then there is me with my mother. And then 4 A. She actually used to work at a law firm for 4 there is my brother He is going to be 18. He 5 Searcy & Denney — 5 is 17 at the moment. 6 Q. Okay. 6 And then there is my sister,=. And 7 A. -- Scarola, Barnhart & Shipley. 7 she lives in Colorado. And she, I'm guessing. is 8 Q. I'm sorry. I missed that last part. 8 nine. She's around the age ofnine. I see her 9 A. Oh, it's Searcy, Denney, Scarola, Barnhart & 9 usually in the summers. 10 Shipley. That's the law firm. It's all the names. 10 Q. Okay. So, that's all on your father's 11 Q. Gotcha. I'm not familiar with that firm. 11 side? 12 Is that down here? 12 A. Yeah. 13 A. It's in West Palm Beach. I'm not sure. It 13 Q. Okay. And Mom's side? 14 was a while ago. I'm not sure exactly where it is. Pm 14 A. My mom's side is me and then there is is 15 horrible with directions. 15 which she's around the age of eight or nine 16 Q. That's — 16 also. Then there is which is adopted by the 17 A. Yeah, but it's around the West Palm Beach 11 same woman as her it's her half-sister. 18 area. 18 Q. °r n 19 Q. Okay. 19 A. 20 A. But now she is a stay-at-home mom because she 20 Q. 21 has, including me, four kids. But she has three young 21 A. Yes. 22 kids. 22 Q. Okay. 23 Q Okay. 23 A. And then there which is two. 24 A. She recently was fostering her step-sister's 24 Q. Okay. And is your mother's or 25 daughter. 25 adopted or... 5 (Pages 14 to 17) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. EFTA00723314 Page 18 Page 20 1 A. No, that's my mother's. And then there was 1 depression? 2 M, but she's not with her anymore because she was 2 A. It was when she was still in South Carolina. 3 fostering her. 3 Fm going to say late 30's maybe. 4 Q. Okay. was the foster? 4 Q. Okay. And I know you were relatively 5 A. Yes. 5 young, but do you remember kind of what symptoms you 6 Q. Okay. 6 noticed in her, or what others have told you was 7 A. She was about one and a half. 7 going on? 8 Q. Now, I have a large number here, so 191 8 A. She basically told me she was just, you know. 9 just kind of do a blanket statement. 9 stressed out to the max. And, you know, it was really 10 A. Yes. 10 hard for her at this age and stuff like that. 11 Q. How are they health wise, any major health 11 It wasn't — I wasn't with her at that 12 problems in any of them? 12 point. That was when I was living with my father 13 A. No. 13 and she was like calling me. 14 Q. Any major psychiatric problems or minor 14 Q. Okay. 15 psychiatric problems? 15 A. And letting me know things, and I think they 16 A. My brother, he had ADD. 16 prescribed her Xanax — 17 Q. Which brother? 17 Q. Okay. 18 A. s,Pri =, on my dad's side. 18 A. — which is to calm her down but she's not on 19 Q. Okay. How old was he when that 19 anything anymore. She's better. 20 was diagnosed? Again ballpark 20 Q. And how long of a period did that go on 21 A. I think when he started grade school. Maybe 21 for? 22 middle school. 22 A. I honestly have no idea. 23 Q. Okay. 23 Q. Okay. 24 A. I'm guessing. I really honestly am not sure. 24 A. I mean, it wasn't for a long, long time. It 25 Pm guessing middle school. 25 was — Page 19 Page 21 1 Q. Is he on any medicines that you're aware 1 Q. Are we talking a week, three weeks? 2 of or... 2 A. Oh, it was — 3 A. He was on Ritalin. That's all I know. I 3 Q. a month? 4 don't know what he is on now. I'm sure he is on 4 A. It was about a couple months to maybe a year. 5 something still. 5 I'm guessing. I mean, I wasn't there at that point. 6 Q. Okay. Did it help? 6 She didn't cligents it at all with me. She didn't want 7 A. Yes. He's very intelligent. It makes him 7 me to worry, but, you know, she did bring it up a couple 3 concentrate. I also have ADD. 8 times. 9 Q. Okay. 9 Q. Then it was more than just a bad week or 10 A. I'm on Addaall which is why I'm in school at 10 two? 11 the moment, because I usually don't take it when I'm not 11 A. Oh, yeah. 12 in school. 12 Q. Okay. Was she ever on any antidepressant 13 Q. We had to do this on a Friday. I assume 13 medications like Zolotl, Prone, Lexapro, Effexor, 14 that's because of the school schedule and childcare? 14 CymbaIta? 15 A. Yeah, I don't have school on Friday, so... 15 A. I think she was, but I have no idea which one. 16 Q. All right. And your mother, does she have 16 Q. Okay. Put down possible antidepressant 17 any mental health problems or... 17 A. Yeah. I'm not, yeah, rd have no idea if she 18 A. No. 1 mean, she has been through her -- she's 18 really was. I mean, I'm sure she took something because 19 been depressed, you know, at some point. 1 mean, 1 19 she mentioned something 1 don't remember. 20 don't know if you want to consider that mental health. 20 . Q. Tell me a little bit about your step-dad. 21 She just got depressed because she was overwhelmed with 21 M. you said? 22 all the kids at her age. 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Okay. 23 Q. Is it okay if I refer to him that way? 24 A. But that's basically it. 24 A. Yeah. That's what we call him, but is 25 Q. Roughly how old was she when she had the 25 his name. 6 (Pages 18 to 21) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. EFTA00723315 Page 22 Page 24 1 know, he's fractured my eardrum that he's hit me so hard 2 A. But we call him M. A little bit about him. 2 because I said I didn't like him. You know, here and 3 He is younger than my mom. 3 there. It wasn't like a constant thing but it was when 4 Q. Okay. 4 he lost his temper. There was a couple times. 5 A. And I don't — I think ifs by four or five 5 Q. Did you ever need to go to the hospital? 6 years. I'm not sure. Maybe two or three. I really 6 A. No. I went to the doctors for my ear though. 7 don't know. I'm guessing. 7 Q. And how is your hearing now? 8 In the beginning when my morn first got 8 A. It's fine. It was just a fractured eardrum 9 with him, I personally didn't like him because I was 9 they said. But it, I couldn't hear out of -- I think 10 very close to my mom. And I felt, you know, like, 10 it I'm not sure — I think it was my right ear for 11 jealous I guess you could say because it wasn't just 11 lilce a week, but it's fme now. 12 me and her anymore. It was him, you know, coming 12 Q. Any other, and you said it's doing fine 13 because she didn't bring him around that much in the 13 now. I sometimes talk a little lower. I can 14 beginning. Then we went — you know, when I was 14 occasionally mumble. So, if I say something you 15 three. 15 don't understand, let me know. 16 But, you know, she brought him more 16 A. Okay. 17 around, you blow, a little bit later in life. And I 17 Q. I'm happy to repeat it. 18 was jealous, and I really didn't like the fact that 18 A. Okay. 19 he was there. But, you 'mow, [guess they got 19 Q. You can raise the volume if need be. 20 serious at some point. And we just — he, he was 20 Okay. You said it wasn't like a daily thing, but 1 21 young at the time. He was in his 20's Pm guessing, 21 mean, can you give me a sense, I mean, was there 22 and I think he was — 22 l0ce major episodes or was there a lot of minor 23 Q. Not to sound funny but when you say 23 little episodes that — 24 guessing, that can mean a lot of different things to 24 A. Yeah, it was, it was mixed between both. It 25 a lot of different people. So, if it's kind of like 25 was, there was minor episodes. It's not where he hit me Page 23 Page 25 1 a good estimate -- 1 but he would, you know, scream and brake things and 2 A. Uh-huh. 2 throw my phone and stuff like that. And there was also 3 Q. — is that what you mean by guessing 3 times where he would, you know, hit me to where he got A. Yes. 4 my mom to the point of, you know, asking me, do you want 5 Q. — or do you mean I am totally just 5 me to leave him. 6 pulling a number out of the air? 6 Q. Okay. 7 A. He was in his 20's. 7 A. And I just basically told her, I don't, I 8 Q. Okay. 8 don't care anymore. I really don't. I mean, I didn't 9 A. So, Pm — 9 know what to do because I knew she wanted to be with 10 Q. So, I will assume when you say he is 10 him, and I didn't want to, like, break up them, but also 11 younger, I think, I'm guessing, that that's your 11 on the other hand I was absolutely miserable. 12 best estimate? 12 Q. Okay. 13 A. Yes. 13 A. And that's one of the reasons I moved out of 14 Q. Okay. I just -- 14 South Carolina also. It wasn't just the school. It was 15 A. He was in his 20's. And we didn't really get 15 a combination of, [just, both. So I just — because I 16 along because, I mean, he's told me that basically I was 16 was supposed to go back to South Carolina like for the 17 luggage to him. 17 following school year because they, you know, it was 18 Q. Okay. 18 more about my mom had it more about the school issue. 19 A. Baggage, luggage, because he was young and he 19 There was also to me about him and, you 20 just wanted my mother and I was just a tagalong. He has 20 know, she didn't say very much to him, so I just 21 told me that to this day. I mean, he has apologized for 21 never went back to South Carolina 22 it, but he was physically abusive. 22 Q. Okay. Again, yeah, I'm just — so it's 23 Q. Okay. 23 kind of like you went down to visit your father for 24 A. Not to the point where he like, you know, 24 the summer and -- 25 every day beat me. But when he lost his temper, you 25 A. Not to visit. I went to finish my eighth 7 (Pages 22 to 25) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. EFTA00723316 Page 26 Page 28 1 grade school year. 1 that's now they are all young. But he spanks them but 2 Q Okay. 2 he treats them completely different now that you 3 A. Okay. I was supposed to go back for my high 3 know, I mean he's, he's apologized to me and sat me down 4 school in South Carolina, but I didn't go back 4 and told me that he was wrong with the way he raised me. 5 Q. Okay. We're talking about the incidence 5 But I guess he was raised like that by his 6 of domestic violence with your stepfather. The 6 father. Actually, it was worse the way his father 7 serious episodes, are we talking like five, ten, 15, 7, raised him, so that's all he knew I'm guessing. And 8 20? 8 now that he has his owl kids, he sees now that's 9 A. It was probably, I mean, it wasn't — 9 horrible the way he raised me. 10 Q. Thirty, 100. 10 Q. Have you forgiven, or is it just you 11 A. No, it wasn't that many. It was like really 11 appreciate the apology but — 12 horrible, like — there is one in particular that I 12 A. I mean, ifs — I still feel like he keeps me 13 remember that when I said I didn't like him over the 13 111w this, you know, from the family. You know, he — I 14 phone, he was listening in on the conversation, he like 14 daft know. That's the way 1 feel. He says otherwise, 15 broke down the door and like ripped my TV out of the 15 but there is just little things that make me feel like 16 wall and threw it down the stairs and basically, beat 16 he would rather me not be at his house, in his home like 17 the crap out of me, and that's when he fractured my 17 living when I moved here for instance and I was staying 18 eardrum. 18 with them first when my husband first left on a 19 Q. Okay. How old were you when that 19 deployment. 20 happened? 20 Q. So, you actually went back up and stayed 21 A. I was in — it was my -- I think it was the 21 with them for a little while and -- 22 beginning— oh, ballparking it? 22 A. Well, they are here now. 23 Q. Ballparking it. 23 Q. Oh, they're back now? 24 A. Seventh or eighth grade year in middle school 24 A. So, they are in Boca. I'm sorry I should have 25 in Fort Lauderdale. 25 told you that. Page 27 Page 29 1 Q. Okay. And again, just so I got the 1 Q. No, that's fine. 2 timeline straight, you were in Fort Lauderdale since 2 A. They're back. They're in Boca. eighth grade. Moved up to South Carolina You were 3 Q. How often do you go over and see them? <l in South Carolina for less than a year — 4 A. I go, I go over there probably once every two 5 A. Oh, less — 5 weeks or something. You know, he is usually at work and 6 Q. And came back 6 I go to see my mom because she's a stay-at-home mother. A. It was a couple months. 7 She's actually watching my daughter today. 8 Q. Couple months. 8 Q. Okay. Now, what type of work does he do? 9 A. Because 1 did eighth grade in Fort Lauderdale. 9 A. He is a general manager at a golf course. 10 1 went to South Carolina, did eighth grade. And then 1 10 It's a — it's in, off of Commercial. 11 went to Wellington and did eighth grade. 11 Q. Okay. 12 Q. Okay. 12 A. Coral Ridge Country Cub. 13 A. So, yeah. 13 Q. And you said you get along well with your 14 Q. And this happened before you left, though? 14 mom now? 15 A. Yes. It was in Fort Lauderdale. 15 A. Yeah. We get along. I mean, don't get me 16 Q. Okay. Was there any abuse between your 16 wrong, we have our differences like every mother and 17 mother and, and =7 17 daughter does. You know, I have my opinion. She has 18 A. (Witness shakes head.) 18 hers. And you know, we get into it sometimes but it's 19 Q. Okay. So, he never hit her? 19 about stupid things. You know. 20 A. No. 20 Q. And can you give me an example? 21 Q. Did he ever hit your brother or any of the 21 A. Example. This is, you know, actually recent. 22 other children? 22 They are very and they don't believe in lying 23 A. Those were all his kids. 23 to their children and telling them there is a Santa 24 Q. Okay. And did he hit any of them? 24 Claus when it's about Jesus's birthday. 25 A. I mean, he spanks them now, you know, because 25 .Q. Okay. 8 (Pages 26 to 29) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. EFTA00723317 Page 3e Page 32 1 A. So, my uncle is coming down but he tells his 100 percent know. 2 son that he is -- you know, Santa Claus is real. 2 Q. Okay. 3 My mom feels the need if his son asks my 3 A. I'm very bad with those dates. 4 mother if Santa Claus is real, she's going to tell 4 Q. So, closer to II than 16? 5 him no. And I told her it's not her place to tell 5 A. Yes. 6 somebody else's son that Santa Claus isn't real. 6 Q. Okay. And again it's okay to ballpark. 7 That's the parents' place. And she's like, well, 7 If I need something more specific — 8 it's my home. So, that's a conflict. Something 8 A. Yeah. 9 like that. Very minor but I give my opinion. 9 Q. — we'll work through it. 10 Q. No, l appreciate the example? 10 A. Ifs so hard for me to do dates really. 11 A. Yeah. 11 Q. Do you know why they got separated the 12 Q. Was there ever any abuse from mom? 12 first time? 13 A. No. Mentally when I was younger, you know, 13 A. I have no idea. I don't know. 14 she — she lost it on me here and there a lot, you know, 14 Q. Do you know why your mother and your 15 for stupid things. I guess I should have said yes, but 15 biological father got separated? 16 I don't, you know. 16 A. Yes. Because he was doing drugs and cheated 17 Q. Well, let me — any physical abuse? 17 on my mother. 18 A. There was one time that she got upset with me 18 Q. What drugs was he doing? 19 because her and my stepfather split up. I didn't tell 19 A. Cocaine. 20 you this either, but her and my stepfather split up at 20 Q. Okay. Was he selling or just using or... 21 one point before they got married, and she dated this 21. A. Both. 22 guy. And I didn't like him at all, and he went to 22 Q. Did any of that come home with him or... 23 Chicago. This is just a scenario of what happened. 23 A. My mom said the time that she left him was 24 I was walking in the streets of Chicago 24 when I got a hold of a bag of coke, and that's when she 25 and she got pissed because I wasn't listening to 25 was fed up. Now, this is from what she told me. You Page 31 Page 33 1 her. So she took the in the bathroom and hit me a 1 know, there's her side, his side, and the truth, so... 2 couple of times to be like, you 'mow, wake the hell 2 They told me two different stories. 3 up, and what are you doing walking in the streets of 3 Q. And what's his version of events? 4 Chicago? 4 A. She was jealous and he couldn't deal with it, 5 Q. Okay. Was it like a spanking or slapping 5 so that's why they split up. So, I mean, I don't blow 6 in the face or - 6 if he wants me to know or — I mean, he is foe now, you 7 A. She hit me with her hands a couple of times 7 know, he's -- 8 and slammed my head against the wall. But it was just, 8 Q. How much clean time has he had? 9 she was really mad. 9 A. He's a while. I mean, this is when I was 10 Q. And you were roughly four, five — 10 younger. I don't,1 don't know honestly. lean% tell 11 A. No. 11 you. I have no idea, but I mean, I remember scenarios 12 Q. — ten, 20? 12 when I was in Jupiter visiting him, and I, I mean, not 13 A. No. I'm going to say between, like — I said 13 that I knew at that time, but I look back and I'm like, 14 they got married when I was around ten. So, maybe like, 14 he had to be on drugs the way he — it was just, he 15 you know what, they got married when 1 was around ten. 15 didn't give a crap about anything, you know. He would 16 They got married twice. I'm sorry. There's things that 16 throw my brother in a bed and my brother would cry to 17 pop back up to me. 17 sleep. And 1 would just — it was horrible. But that's 18 They got married when I was ten. They got 18 when I was -- I have no idea what age. I was yotmg. It 19 a divorce and they got re-married in a courthouse, 19 was when he lived in Jupiter, Jupiter Farms. 20 which I totally forgot about. 20 Q. Okay. 21 Q. Okay. 21 A. But fora while now he's — a great job, makes 22 A. You're going to see I do that. I forget and 22 good money. 23 then I start remembering. And I think it was when they 23 Q. I forgot to ask about him. So, what, what 24 25 got their divorce. So Pm guessing around the age of like 11 or so. Pin, I'm ballparlcing it. I really don't 24 25 is his job? A. He's the finance director of a, two 1 9 (Pages 30 to 33) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. EFTA00723318 Page 34 Page 36 1 dealerships, car dealerships. 1 still comes into his life, I'm going to pick you up next 2 Q. Okay. 2 week; never shows up. She's back in jail. Ifs I can't 3 A. He still works a lot. He works six days a 3 imagine what he goes through and he tries to act now 4 week. tie's a hard worker. He's dating somebody but he 4 like, oh, I don't give a, you know, whatever he uses 5 hasn't been married since my mother. 5 these words, and I know it hurts. 6 Q. Okay. 6 Q. Yeah. All right. So, and just an 7 A. I don't {mow if he has a commitment problem or 7 interesting history. And thank you. So, I'm just 8 what it is. But, you know, he's basically raised my 8 trying to make sure I've got it and haven't skipped 9 brother. My brother's mom turned into a druggie. And I 9 anything. 10 don't know if she got that, started from my father. But 10 A. Yeah. 11 she was a real nice woman when I knew her, but she's 11 Q. So, dad's working at a car dealership, 12 literally a druggie, disgustingly and -- 12 staying in his house right now? 13 Q. Do you have any dealings with her or... 13 A. Uh-huh. 14 A. I'm sorry? 14 Q. Good relationship with him now? 15 Q. Do you have any dealings with your 15 A. Yeah. Now, we have finally are having a good 16 brother's mother? 16 relationship. 17 A. As in like -- 17 Q. When do you think the relationship 18 Q. Was she like living in the house? 18 improved? 19 A. She was living there and she was — 19 A. Since I had my daughter. So, about, almost 20 Q. - for the first part? 20 two yews. 21 A. She was, she was a sweetheart when I was 21 Q. Okay. Something I just realized I forgot 22 living then. She was a sweetheart and I know she got 22 to ask: What's your husband's rank in the Navy? 23 attached to drugs. I don't know if it was my father 23 A. He is about to be an15. If he makes — he 24 that got her on them, because they started — they were 24 took a test but they randomly pick. He's, right now 25 in Jupiter when this whole thing, you know, when they 25 he's an I.4. Page 35 Page 37 got together. So, I don't know if she just started 1 Q. Good for him. 2 doing them with my dad because when I ;mew her she was a 2 A. Yeah, he's, he's an excellent worker. 3 sweetheart, amazing woman. 3 Q. So, is Is getting up to sergeant rank? I Q. Okay. 4 mean, I know in the military, Army I think 1-4 is A. And she just started going downhill and doing 5 corporal. May have forgotten. Don't know? crazy stuff when you do when ttre on drugs. And my 6 A. I just know he is an I-4, and I-5 is higher. 7 dad had to take custody of M, which is my brother. 7 I mean, it's getting up there. He is doing really well. a And be's raised my brother, and my brother is very 8 Q. Right. 9 intelligent and he's about to graduate. 9 A. He has a lot of awards, you know a best worker 10 Q. Good for bin 10 awards. He is actually elected to get to So, 11 A. So, l mean, back in the past, yeah, there was 11 basically if he passes the test, he is basically going 12 complications, but now there they are good. 12 to be hand picked. Because the way they do the testing 13 Q. What do you mean complications? 13 in the Navy is, this group of people test, you know, 14 A. As in drugs and, you know, his mom, you know, 14 this - you Icnow just say 50 percent pass the test. 15 doing the drugs and my dad was doing the drugs. My 15 They only take a !landfill of that 50 percent that pass. 16 brother, you know, was just in a bad environment. 16 Not all the people that pass get the next rank. 17 Q. Okay. 17 Q. Gotcha. 18 A. You 'mow. 18 A. So -- 19 Q. Your brother used than as well? 19 Q. He's got enough awards and stuff that it 20 A. My brother, he has. I mean, don't get me 20 looks like he — 21 wrong, you know, teenagers try drugs. But l feel bad 21 A. They basically awarded him to get I-5, if he 22 for him because he's never had a mother figure in his 22 makes it. 23 life. You know, he's had me, but I'm his sister. 23 Q. Okay. Good. So, relationship with father 24 Q. Right. 24 improved since your daughter's been born? 25 A. You know, I mean, his mother alssa)s -- she 25 A. Yes. 10 (Pages 34 to 37) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. EFTA00723319 Page 38 Page 40 1. Q. Okay. And he's been clean for a while? 1 Q. Okay. But he has been in an institution? 2 A. Yeah. 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Did he just use cocaine or were there 3 Q. ni just leave it at that, unknown. 4 other things there too? 4 Okay. Any history of suicides in the family, 5 A. I ]mow there was marijuana — 5 immediate, or extended? Q. Okay. 6 A Not that, I mean — not that I can think of. 7 A. when 1 was younger. But I just heard 7 I know my, my dad's cousin got really depressed at one 8 stories of the cocaine and things like that from, you 8 point and wanted to commit suicide from what I heard 9 know, my cousins. They know from their parents. It's 9 years ago. But I'm not really close with him either. 10 just, I've heard about it in the family. 10 Q. Okay. 11 Q. Was he using powder or crack or... 11. A I just heard about it. But that I know of, 12 A. I think cocaine powder. 12 no, nobody that has committed suicide. 13 Q. Okay. 13 Q All right Anything else about your 14 A. I hope he wasn't doing crack. 14 family you think would be helpful for me to know? 15 Q. Did he go to a treatment program or was he 15 Again that's not a one-time offer, so if something 16 just — 16 pops up later - 17 A. No. He just was able to stop. 17 A. Yeah, there might be things that pop up later 18 Q. Stop. Okay. 18 but from what I know, that's a lot of information. 19 A. Yeah 19 Q. Okay. I !mow we covered a little of this 20 Q. In the extended family any history of any 20 when we were talking about the family but I may 21 mental health problems, depression, anxiety, 21 repeat a little bit here. 22 schizophrenia? 22 A. Okay. 23 A. My grandmother's brother — 23 Q. How was your childhood in general or how 24 Q Okay.. 24 would you describe it? 25 A. I don't know what it's called. I 'mow he has 25 A. If I compare myself to somebody else, like, Page 39 Page 41 a mental disorder to where maybe if you named it, I 1 there's this girl, I'm not going to get into it, there's 2 can — 2 a girl in my school that she told me her life story, and 3 Q. Was he hospitalized? 3 1 was like, wow, and I thought mine was bad. 4 A. He's been in a mental institution. 4 But I mean, it's, it's not been horrible, 5 Q. Okay. I mean, they sometimes talk about 5 but there has been some, you know, mental and 6 manic depressive disease, bipolar, schizophrenia, 6 physical abuse, but it hasn't been, oh, I was 7 schizo-effective? 7 traumatized and, you know, things like that. 8 A. Schizophrenia, what is that, when you're just 8 But I mean, some things did affect me, you 9 like - I nlean — 9 know, and still to this day I'm hurt from certain 10 Q. There's several different forms of it, but 10 things that have happened in my life, you know. 11 people can become paranoid. They can become what 11 Q. What would you say are the things that 12 they call catatonic where they don't move and — 12 still affect you? 13 A. No, I mean, he's — I've met him and he's 13 A. Just the way my stepfather mistreated me and 14 just — he talks just like you and I, but I know he is 14 some of the mental abuse my father, you know, said to 15 diagnosed with something, but I don't know — 15 me. It's, basically it's just that part, and just that 16 Q. Okay. 16 I never felt wanted by either side of the family. 17 A. what it is. 17 Q. Okay. What were some of the things your 18 Q. Does he have periods where he's different 18 father said to you? 19 from us and periods where he looks like us? 19 A. Just things Ince you're a fat pig, slob, and 20 A. You mean acts, like his actions? 20 you're not going to graduate or amount to anything in 21 Q. Uh-huh. 21 life. And your brother is going to be a, you know, 22 A. Yeah. My grandmother says like, he will be 22 architect or a doctor and you're going to be nothing, 23 fine and he could just lose it and just be like crazy 23 and just things like that. 24 sometimes. So, I don't know if it's bipolar or I'm not 24 Q. How old were you when that was happening? 25 sure. I'm not really close with him. 25 A. I was in high school. 11 (Pages 38 to 41) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. EFTA00723320 Page 42 Page 44 1 Q Okay. 1 of my friends in school. 2 A. That was probably like my junior — I'm, I'm 2 Q. And she hasn't gone there? 3 ballparking it 3 A. Oh, no. 4 Q. That's fine. 4 Q. No. 5 A. Junior, senior year. He got fed up with me. 5 A. !just met her in school just recently, the 6 Q. Okay. All right Did you have a lot of 6 school I'm in now. friends when you were growing up or... 7 Q. Which school are you in now? 8 A. Yeah. I clung to my friends because that's 8 A. I'm in cosmetology school. 9 all I felt I had at that point. 9 Q. Okay. 10 Q. How many friends do you have now? 10 A. 'mean, we just were talking one day and she 11 A. Friends and acquaintances or close 11 just — you know, she's an awesome, amazing person for 12 girlfriends? 12 what she's been through. You know, it's just, I was 13 Q. Friend-friends, and then we can talk about 13 amazed. And I was hie, wow, and I, I thought that, you 14 friendly acquaintances. 14 blow, my life wasn't that great but to hear your story I 15 A. I have a lot of close friends that I have had 15 feel bad. 16 since high school and even when I went to daycare. Do 16 Q. I know we talked about this a little bit, 17 you want a number? 17 but when you were growing up, how were you 18 Q. Sure. 18 disciplined? 19 A. Okay. Well, let me think. Probably six to 19 A. As in technique wise, as in timeout, hitting, 20 eight really dose girlfriends — 20 stuff like that? 21 Q. Okay. 21 Q. Yeah. 22 A. — that I've known for years. 22 A. Hitting, hit, I was hit with a spatula. 23 Q. Did any of them go see Mr. Epstein? 23 Q. Asa child growing up, did you act out or 24 A. Yes. 24 get along or what was 25 Q. And do you know which ones those were? 25 A. Socially? Page 43 Page 45 1 A. Give the names? 1 Q. Uh-huh. 2 Q. Yeah. 2 A. When I was in middle school, I actually — I 3 A. Am I allowed to do that? 3 kept to myself a lot. Q. I think so. Again, my understanding is is 4 Q. Okay. 5 there's orders on name confidentiality, that they 5 A. I actually was very shy. Even my freshman 6 are being put as in codes in the transcripts, but I 6 year in high school, I was shy. I was inward. I was 7 don't know that as. 7 quiet, you know, people would say things to me. I A. I don't — I prefer not to give the names 8 wouldn't speak out or lash out. I would just let them 9 because I really don't know if their attorneys would 9 talk back to me. 10 like me to do that, but I do have friends that have went 10 Q. Okay. 11 there also. I have two or three of them. I don't want 11 A. And probably around my sophomore and junior 12 to, I don't 'mow if I'm allowed to. That's not, I don't 12 year is when I started, you know, not letting people 13 know if that's my place to put out their names. 13 =SS me anymore. 14 Q. Okay. It would be helpful for me but, you 14 Q. Okay. What led to the change? 15 know, you have to do what you thinks right. 15 A. It could have been a combination of things. 16 A. Yeah, maybe I will talk to my attorney. 16 It could have been, you know, I've been hurt by so many 17 Q. Okay. 17 people and walked all over by so many people, you know, 18 A. I will talk to my attorney first and I will 18 including the Epstein scenario. The whole thing that 19 ask her about it and — 19 happened with that, you know, it just, basically I 20 Q. Okay. When we take a beats 20 just — I was sick of, you know, being taken advantage 21 A. Yeah. 21 of. 22 Q. Sounds good. The friend you were talking 22 Q. Okay. What were some your interests when 23 about who had a worse life than you had — 23 you were younger? What did you like to do? 24 A. That's just a friend at my school as of right 24 A. I like to draw. Pm artistic. I like to go 25 now. I mean, I'm not close-close to her, but she's one 25 to movies. What do you mean by younger, as in what age 12 (Pages 42 to 45) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. EFTA00723321 Page 46 Page 48 1 frame, like -- 1 throat and things like that. 2 Q. What would you consider childhood to be? 2 Q. So, the people who were -- 3 A. Childhood, probably under the age of like 12, 3 A. I was friends with. I was mostly friends with 4 11, I would say. So, you know, l like to draw and do — 4 the guys which seems awkward, but none of the girls 5 1 wasn't, !was, like I told you, I was like more, I 5 lilted me. 6 didn't really have a whole bunch of friends when I was 6 Q. And the girls were in a gang? 7 younger, you know, childhood. 7 A. That's what they told me. The guys told me 8 Q• Okay. 8 that they were in a gang, 9 A. So, I was more to myself and went on the 9 Q. Do you know which gang? 10 computer and drew and stuff like that, riding bikes, 10 A. I have no idea. I didn't even — I just 11 playing with my pets, stuff Lice that. 11. wanted to get the hell out of there. 12 Q. Okay. And as an adolescent then? 12 Q. I would understand that. Okay. Besides 13 A. 'liked to hang out with my friends a lot. 13 the abuse that happened to you, did you witness any 14 Q. Okay. And the movies, does that fall 14 other abuse or -- 15 under childhood or adolescence? 15 A. As in with my mother and father a stepfather? 16 A. Both. I like to go to the movies. i still 16 Q. Mother, father, stepfather? 17 do. 17 A. Mental or physical you're saying? 18 Q. What is your favorite genre? 18 Q. Let's start physical? 19 A. As in movie? 19 A. No. 20 Q. Uh-huh, or what style or type or... 20 Q. Mental? 21 A. I like romantic, comedy. 21 A. Mental, I, you know, i mean, l don't know ifl 22 Q. What happened when you were in school in 22 would consider it mental abuse, but my mother and 23 South Carolina? You said that there were threats 23 stepfather would get into arguments. I don't remember 24 against you and — 24 what it was about. I mean, I know she was 25 A. Basically 1 went to this new school in South 25 self-conscious and he couldn't stand that, and — but I Page 47 Page 49 Carolina. And i mean, just the girls hated me. 1 mean, !just, not that I remember. It wasn't something 2 Q. Okay. 2 I would pay attention to. I would just walk away. 3 A. They wanted to cut my hair off, slice my 3 Q. Did you see any abuse in friends or people 4 throat. They would just talk bad to me, and I would 4 outside the family? 5 just sit there and let them talk bad tome. It was 5 A. Physical? 6 just, I don't know if it was a jealousy thing or they 6 Q. Physical. 7 just didn't like who I was, but I didn't say anything so 7 A. No. 8 i don't know how they wouldn't like my personality 8 Q. Mental? 9 because I really was just quiet. 9 A. I mean, mental abuse is everywhere though. 10 Q. Okay. Did anything happen that started 10 Q. How do you define mental abuse? You 11 this? i mean, that's not usual -- 11. actually bring up a good point. 12 A. I did, I mean, I became friends with, you 12 A. Just putting somebody down I consider mental 13 know, basically I became friends with the guys because 13 abuse. 14 none of the girls liked me. And Ilumg out with them 14 Q. Okay. So, if a married couple had a 15 and i mean, they just did not like me. Like even my 15 general fight, you would consider that mental abuse 16 first day, these girls were giving me the nastiest 16 or does it have to go — 17 looks. I mean, the classroom was sort of, they had 17 A. It's a choice of words. As if you don't know 18 windows like this, and the girls were just staring at 18 what you are doing, you know, you don't know how to 19 me. 19 clean the house, this, that, and the other, I consider 20 Q. Okay. You said there were threats. Were 20 that mental abuse because you're putting somebody down. 21 there actual physical, physical altercations? 21 Q. Okay. I don't think i have directly asked 22 A. No, because I left and you know, I left. They 22 at this point, and again we'll talk about Epstein 23 would -- there was, you know, guys would be like you 23 later, so taking that part right now out of the 24 need to be careful because they're all in a gang and, 24 equation, have you ever been sexually abused? 25 you know, they said that they wanted to slice your 25 A. No. 4 13 (Pages 46 to 49) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. EFTA00723322 Page 50 Pact'• 52 Q. All right. Okay. Were you raised in a A. !have a dog. 2 church, mosque, synagogue, house of worship? 2 Q. Okay. What type of dog? 3 A. No. It wasn't — they, they didn't become 3 A. Puggle, it's a pug and a beagle mixed. 4 Christian until later on when they were in South 4 Q. Thank you. Fm trying to imagine what 5 Carolina is when they became really religious. 5 that would look like. 6 Q. And I assuming that is yota mother and 6 A. He's, he's pretty ugly. But I love ugly dogs. 7 stepfather? 7 Q. And growing up, I don't need to know 8 A. Yes. 8 everything but — 9 Q. Would they consider themselves born again 9 A. Everything. 10 10 Q. Just kind of in — 11 A. Yes. 11 A. I've had — 12 Q. Okay. Do you attend church now or mosque, 12 Q. — genera/ what have you had? 13 synagogue, house of worship? 13 A. I've had dogs. I've had cats. I've had 14 A. Yeah, my husband and I, actually wo were 14 birds. I've had chinchillas. I've had iguanas. I've 15 attending church before he left on deployment And we 15 had gerbils. I've had fish, turtles. I think that's 16 got really close to this couple that brought us into 16 it, I think 17 this church. And it was a Christian church. And we 17 Q. Do you get along better with animals than 18 were doing really good. And then he left, and I 18 you do people or... 19 started, you know, I went to Christ Fellowship a couple 19 A. Yeah. I love animals. 'just feel like they 20 of times, but it's sort of hard bra-Anse I don't, I don't 20 are so innocent. I just feel like they don't, you know, 21 like to leave my daughter at daycares or random places. 21 they don't judge you. They don't disrespect you. They 22 Q. Why is that? 22 just love you. It's unconditional love with an animal. 23 A. !don't trust people. 23 Q. That's true. 24 Q. Okay. Any particular reason why? 24 A. Yeah. 25 A. It could be, you 'mow, there is, I mean, 25 Q. I have run into a few cats that I Page 51 Page 53 little things led up to that. The Epstein scenario 1 thought -- 2 could be one of them. I don't trust men at all around 2 A. Yeah. 3 my daughter at all. 3 Q. -- had issues but — and I !mow we talked 4 Q. Okay. 4 a little bit about school, but kind of educational 5 A. It's, it's more I lean towards men. 5 history, start with middle school since that sounds 6 don't trust any man around my daughter besides, of 6 like there was a lot going on there. How were your 7 course, my husband and, you know, my family. But I hut 7 grades? 8 don't trust people. 8 A. I was average. I was never, you know, A's. 9 Q. When you say could have been many little 9 Well, actually, no. I was in high school when I — I 10 things, what else was -- 10 mean, you said start at middle school, but Fm jumping. 11 A. Little things as in I just, you ;mow, !just 11 Q. If you prefer to start in high school, we 12 think people, you know, some people have bad intentions 12 can start there, wherever. 13 and you don't know why, you don't how, you don't they 13 A. It's not that I prefer. It's just, middle 14 could be normal to you and all of a sudden they do sick 14 school I had average grades. I was Cs, B's, some A's. 15 things. I just, you know, the Epstein thing could have 15 Fm not 100 percent sure, you know. If you look at my 16 led up to that, you know, because that just made me not 16 records, Fin not being 100 percent, you know, sure about 17 trust guys. And my daughter, God forbid somebody 17 what it is but I know it was average. 18 touched her, it would drive me insane. 18 High school, I, I took Adderall or, no, I 19 Q. All right. You mentioned pets, what type 19 took Ritalin. And I got like almost straight A's 20 of pets did you have? 20 when I was taking Ritalin, but I didn't consistently 21 A. Throughout my entire life? 21 take it So I, I suffered a lot my sailor year. I 22 Q. Sure. 22 basically had to go to an alternative school. 23 A. Or just now? I have one pet now that I have 23 Q. Okay. 24 is mine. 24 A. Because I was skipping a lot my senior year 25 Q. What do you got now? 25 and it started in my junior year and then it led to my 14 (Pages 50 to 53) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. EFTA00723323 Page 54 Page 56 1 senior year and then I had to — I mean, I did get my 1 It was either my junior or senior year, ballpaticing it. 2 high school diploma, but it took me a little bit longer 2 And I — it was weird. I didn't want to hang out with 3 than — 3 my friends. I didn't want to go anywhere and that was 4 Q. Was this a GED or — 4 awkward for me because I was always with my friends. 5 A. No, it was a high school diploma. 5 And I was like doing horrible in school. 6 Q. — high school diploma. 6 I didn't know what was wrong with me. And you know, 7 A. It just basically went ova my graduation 7 I just, my dad was like, you know, why don't you 8 year. 8 just try Ritalin. Maybe you have some ADD because I 9 Q. Did you ever repeat a grade? 9 know I have it. Your brother has it. 10 A. No. 10 And I tried Ritalin, and I mean I started 11 Q. Were you ever in special education? 11 getting awesome grades in school. 12 A. No. 12 Q. Okay. 13 Q. Were you ever in any honors programs? 13 A. But 1 jug didn't continue it because it 14 A. No. !wish. 14 wasn't mine. And !just, I was already almost done with 15 Q. And how did, you said you went to an 15 high school, you know. It was whatever. But I went 16 alternative school? 16 through a really depressed stage. 17 A. Yeah. It's ERC 17 Q. Okay. And you think that was junior, 18 Q. Okay. 18 senior year? 19 A. I think it's called the Educational Resource 19 A. I'm guessing. It was — I know it was junior. 20 Center. . 20 senior year. I'm not sure which one. 21 Q. Okay. 21 Q. Okay. That's one I would like to try and 22 A. It's basically for people in high school that 22 tie in. Do you use other time stamps or kind of 23 are able to graduate but they need more time because 23 markers l0ce when you got your first car or started 24 they messed up a little bit. And I graduated and I got 24 driving or — 25 my high school diploma. But it wasn't from a specific 25 A. Let me think. Page 55 Page 57 1 high school. It was basically just Palm Beach County's 1 Q. Who you may have dating at the time and 2 high school diploma. 2 . , does that — I know I may be jumping the gun there, 3 Q. Okay. 3 but we haven't gotten to the relationship issues, so 4 A. You know, so I wanted my diploma 4 I don't know. 5 Q. Good for you for getting it 5 A. I'm going to say my senior year. A. Yeah, I was not getting a GED. I wanted my 6 Q. Okay. 7 diploma. 7 A. Once again I'm still — Q. You said it was for students who had 8 Q. You know what, think about it. Have it 9 messed up a little bit. 9 kind of in the background. When we talk about kind ti 10 A. —as in -- 10 of your past psychiatric history — 11 Q. How did you mess up? 11 A. Okay. 12 A. I messed up as in skipping. When you have, 12 Q. — we'll kind of nail it down there. 13 let me try to remember, I think it is ten unexcused 13 A. !Dicey. 14 absences and your grades are, you know, not as good as 14 Q. Because I don't want you to — 15 they are supposed to be. And you need to pass the 15 A. Yeah. 16. exams, and I'm horrible with testing. 16 Q. Okay. Were there any fights in school 17 Q. Okay. 17 while you were going? 18 A. So, if I didn't pass those tests and I didn't 18 A. As in me fighting somebody? 19 great straight A's for the rest of the year, I wouldn't 19 Q. Yeah. 20 be graduating like I was supposed to. So, I said, you 20 A. No. 21 know what, I'm just going to go to this school. 21 Q. Did you ever get suspended or expelled? 22 Q. You said you were on and off Adderall. 22 A. No. 23 What, why was that? 23 Q. Ever get into trouble for having 24 A. I was actually taking my brother, my brother's 24 difficulty with authority figures, teachers, 25 Ritalin because I went through a really depressed stage. 25 coaches, li e officers? 2° c.,...---.....„—m—,1 15 (Pages 54 to 57 (5 61) 832-7500 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. EFTA00723324 Page 58 Page 60 1 A. No. 1 when it's damaged like mine, because I do it so much, it 2 Q. Ever bring a weapon to school? 2 basically seals the bonds of your hair cuticle and makes 3 A. No. 3 it healthy. 4 Q. Have you done any college? 4 Q. Okay. 5 A. No. I want to. I want to take business 5 A. That's at the Q-wave class, which is people 6 classes. 6 have really curly hair and they want it to be straight, Q. And you said you were in cosmetology 7 so when they have spiral curls, they get out of the 7 school? 8 shower and they are not looking like, you know, they got 9 A. Yes. I mean, sane people consider it college. 9 electrocuted. They get the Q-wave and basically it's a 10 Some people just consider it, you know, beauty school. 10 permanent straightener until their hair actually grows 11 Q. Ora trade school or — 11 back out. So, it's easier for them to do their hair if 12 A. Yeah. I mean, I enjoy it, so I would rather 12 they wear it straight all the time. 13 do something I enjoy than something I'm miserable ever) 13 Q. Okay. 14 day. 14 A. So, it's two classes that I took. 15 Q. Okay. How long have you been doing it? 15 Q. You just mentioned Japanese and I was 16 A. Almost a year now. Fm almost done. 16 like — 17 Q. What is the name of the school? 17 A. Yeah, it comes from Japan. It's the Q-wave. 18 A. It's the Academy ofPalm Beach. 18 Q. °ceche. Okay. So middle school, you said 19 Q. Are you specializing in any one area of 19 you were average. 20 cosmetology or... 20 A. Yeah, I was average and then high school, 1 21 A. I prefer to do hair and makeup. That's, you 21. mean, I don't, just bad memory-wise. I mean, there is 22 know, they offer facials. I have done facial classes 22 some things I remember and certain things I don't. 1 23 and nails. I was actually going to take permanent 23 mean,1 started skipping my junior and my senior year, 24 makeup also, but I'm going to wait on that because it's 24 which was the worst thing I could have done. 25 really expensive. 25 Q. Okay. And any suspensions, expulsions in Page 59 P.1,,,- - 1 Q. Okay. 1 middle school? 2 A. But hair and makeup is my favorite thing to 2 A. No. 3 do. 3 Q. No. Did you ever see a counselor while 4 Q. And that's a one-year program or -- 4 you were in school, either middle or high school? 5 A. Uh-huh. 5 A. A counselor forjust because, I mean, I went 6 Q. You can do initial ones if you deem — 6 to my guidance counselor my senior year when I went to 7 A. Like, they, you know, cosmetology is basically 7 the alternative school to speak to her about that, if 8 a year depending on, you know, how much you go. Like if B that's what you mean. 9 you're going MI time, it's basically a year. Some 9 Q. Well, there's counselors who do kind of 10 people do day-and-night class, which I can't do that. I 10 career planning or Arturo planning, like, you know, 11 have my daughter. But you can finish in half the time. 11 community college, cosmetology. 12 And they also offer programs where they 12 A. No, I didn't 13 have, you know, people come in specially for certain 13 Q. And then there's counselors who talk 14 programs as in permanent makeup, body wrapping, you 14 about, you know, it looks like you're having 15 know, advanced hair cutting. And you pay extra 15 trouble, you're missing, trouble in home life. So 16 money for those classes. I've taken two other 16 did you do more of the — 17 classes. 17 A. Basically, I basically did the guidance 18 Q. Okay. 18 counselor that covered, you know, this is going on with 19 A. So, I've taken keratin hair straightening and 19 your school, what are we going to do about it because, 20 the Japanese Q-wave (phonetic) class which is -- 20 you know, you want to graduate. These are your options. 21 Q. You've got to help me on that one. 21 Q. Okay. 22 A. Keratin is basically, what's in your hair. 22 A. That's what I went — I mean, I had a teacher 23 That's what your hair is consisted of. 23 that wanted to send me to an art college for — because 24 Q. Right, hair and nails and everything, 24 I was in an class, and he wanted to send me to, I don't 25 A. Yes. You add Keratin back into your hair, 25 know which school it was. He wanted to send my work 16 (Pages 58 to 61) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. EFTA00723325 ?age 62 Page 64 1 into this school, but I didn't do it. lice I listen, and I will be sitting there, and I'm 2 Q. Why not? 2 lila, what did they just tell me? But I've noticed, you 3 A. I don't know. I don't know why I didn't. I 3 know, Adderall helps that tremendously. When I'm on 4 just it was a piece — it was my senior year, I know 4 Adderall, I'm very, like, you know, a sponge and I'm 5 that, because it was my art class my senior year, sucking everything in, and i want to just work and do 6 because i felt that shouldn't have been in the class my 6 somethingg. 7 senior year. But he saw my artwork and he thought it 7 But if I'm, you know, other than that, was amazing, and he wanted to send it into a college. 8 it's just I, I, I go to a job and they explain 9 And I just wasn't interested at that lime. 9 something and it's like I'm listening, but then I'm 10 Q. Okay. What types of jobs have you had? 10 like, what did they just say to me? 11 A. I've had lots of receptionist jobs. I've 11 Q. Did you take Adderall today? 12 worked at restaurants. i did sales for hair products. 12 A. Yeah. 13 I might be missing a couple of things, but it will cane 13 Q. Okay. I just -- any other medicines you 14 back to me. 1 mean, those are my main things that I can 14 took today? 15 remember as of right now. if things come back to me 15 A. No. 16 throughout - 16 Q. So, from the sounds of it, ifs more just, 17 Q. You've mentioned several times you've got 17 you know, the concentration, the ADD part that you 18 memory problems. Has that ever been diagnosed, 18 miss things, not that you have memory problems in 19 evaluated? 19 the sense of traumatic brain injury? 20 A. No, I've never had it diagnosed. I've never, 20 A. Traumatic brain injury as in a concussion or 21 I've never really looked into it myself. I've never 21 something like that, I've never had anything like that. 22 mentioned it. i just usually talk about my problems to 22 Q. Okay. 23 my therapist. 23 I'm not sure if it's just, I've never — like 24 Q. I mean, a lot of things can affect memory 24 I said, I've never had it diagnosed, so I don't know. 25 such as head trauma, substance use, vitamin 25 But i have memory, I have a memory problem, like, I Page 63 Page 65 1 deficiency. Some people just don't concentrate and 1 mean, I've noticed that, I'm like, people say, oh, you 2 area little spacey to begin with. If you had to 2 don't remember when we went to Disney World? No, you 3 guess, what 3 know, l don't remember that. And I don't know if it's A. I mean, I don't 'mow if it can run in a 4 the ADD or it could be something else. I don't know 5 family. I don't know how that works because my 5 100 percent But when I'm on Adderall i can focus. 6 grandmother and mother both have — they forget 6 Q. Do you remember general facts? / horribly. 7 A. As in — 8 Q. Okay. Mother and grandmother, you said? 8 Q. As in who's the first president of the 9 A. Yes. 9 United States? 10 Q. And grandmother's forgetting is not like 10 A. Yeah. I'm just not that intelligent to 11 dementia? it's -- 11 remember every president there is, but, you know -- 12 A. No, no, no. Ifs like, oh, I forget the last 12 Q. Well, there's very few people out there 13 time you called me, things like that. I mean, it's not 13 who remember every, you know -- 14 like I'm like, oh, you know — i just, time frames and 14 A. Well, d mean, I would — yeah. 15 things like that, I can, you know, ballpark it, like, 15 Q. But what I'm, what I'm, what I'm asking 16 you know, you and I have both said. But for me to put, 16 is, is like general things — 17 you know, my finger on the exact date, it's hard. I 17 A. Oh, yeah, i mean, yes, it's not like -- 18 have to sit there and like, like you said, figure out my. 18 It's not you go off -- 19 car situation, when I got my car, or this, that, and the 19 A. It's kind of - 20 other. You know. Do you want me to explain this, that, 20 Q. -- kind of sophisticated autobiographical, 21 and the other? 21 22 Q. No. Is it something that's impaired your 22 A. Yeah, it's not, it's not like, well, I don't 23 ability to work? 23 know who that is or 1 don't know that, you know, it's 24 A. There is times when I have had jobs where 24 not like that. Ifsjust, there are certain time frames 25 people will tell me what to do. And I'm just, I act 25 in my life that 1 remember. It's not the exact -- I 17 (Pages 62 to 65) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. EFTA00723326 Page 66 Page 68 1 guess I should say it different. It's not the time 1 Country Club, as a receptionist/hostess/you know, 2 frame. Ifs, it's basically what happened. I can 2 seating them. 3 remember in around the area, but to put my finger on a 3 Q. Have you ever been fired from a job? 4 date, or exactly when is what I have problems with. 4 A. Fired? No, not that I can think of. 5 Q. Okay. 5 Q. Why do you usually change work -- and I'm 6 A. I guess you could say. 6 sorry. You were about to say something. 7 Q. AM again, you've not forgotten tasks that 7 A. I'm just — there was another job that I was 8 you've learned like how to drive a car or -- 8 thinking of. I also worked at a mortgage company as a 9 A. No, no, not at all, no. 9 receptionist, but I don't know the name of it. It was 10 Q. And you do okay with speaking or 10 off of Commercial. 11 word-finding difficulties or... 11 Q. Okay. 12 A. Sometimes, I mean, but I have seen other 12 A. And you said why did I move jobs so much? 13 people do this, so, I mean, but rd be like, oh, my 13 Q. Uh-huh. 14 gosh, it's on the tip of my tongue, I can't remember the 14 A. Part of it was moving. Most of it was moving. 15 wont things Ince that I do. 15 Q. And you were moving so much because -- 16 Q. Do you think you do that more than the 16 A. It was just, I didn't have transportation. 17 people around you? 17 Like I didn't have my car, when it like, for instance, 18 A. No, it's just — if I, probably when I think 18 Steamer's, I worked at Steamer's. And basically my dad 19 about it more, Tm like, oh, I hope I can remember this. 19 dropped me off at work and stuff. I was a freshman. 20 And then I go and say it and I'm like, it's really bad, 20 rm guessing a freshman, sophomore, ballparking it. And 21 but I can't think of it. But I have had that happen. 21 basically we moved, and then he didn't want to take me 22 I've seen other people do it too. I mean, I've never 22 all the way over to there. So I didn't have a job for a 23 really looked into that, so Pm not really - 23 while, and then I started working at Trade Secret -- 24 Q. And again, I think everybody's had that 24 Q. Okay. 25 experience -- 25 A. — which was at the Wellington mall which is Page 67 Page 69 1 A. Yeah. 1 next to where I live. 2 Q. — once or twice. The question is: h it 2 Q. Okay. So it was mostly transportation, 3 something that's more 3 moving — 4 A. No, it's not -- 4 A. Basically. 5 Q. — irritating than creating a problem for 5 Q. — is why you would change work? 6 you? 6 A. Yeah. 7 A. No, not that I'm aware of, not that I can 7 Q. What's the longest you worked at any one 8 think of. 8 place? 9 Q. Okay. So you said — can you give me the 9 A. My longest was, ! think, Trade Secret. 10 names of some of the places you've worked? 10 Q. Okay. How long were you there? 11 A. I've worked at Steamer's which was a 11 A. A year to two years. I'm not sure. A year, a 12 restaurant and I was a hostess. 12 year-and-a-halt, two years. 13 Q. Okay. 13 Q. Olcay. Let me think where I want to go 14 A. I've worked, I've worked at Trade Secret. I'm 14 with it here. ever receive any awards or 15 not doing these in order. I'm just randomly thinking. 15 recommendations or certificates of accomplishment at 16 Q. That's fine. 16 work, or school, or the community, or... 17 A. Trade Secret which was the sales hair. I sold 17 A. From what I can remember right now, no. 18 shampoos, conditioners, flat irons. I've worked at 18 Q. Okay. Ever receive any disciplinary 19 Mazda as a receptionist, sales — I don't know. They 19 actions at work or reprimands, or... 20 tried to get me to do something else there, but I don't 20 A. I wore jeans to work one time and they got mad 21 remember the name of what it was. Basically just sell 21 at me. 22 the cars on the phones to get them interested to come 22 Q. Okay. 23 and look at a car. 23 A. That was at Trade Secret, buL.. 24 Q. Okay. 24 Q. And I'm assuming it was not casual Friday? A. I worked Mn'stepfather's job, Coral Ridge 25 A. No. c..25 alb 18 (Pages 66 to 69) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. EFTA00723327 Page 70 Page 72 1 Q. Okay. Have you ever been on disability, 1. Q. As in important to you? 2 welfare, unemployment, SSI? 2 A. Important? five. I'm ballparking it 3 A. I have been on WK. 3 to be honest because this is going to be hard. 4 Q. Okay. 4 Q. Okay. So, the first one was your husband. 5 A. When I had my daughter. 5 A. Was my husband. It know, it sounds weird, but 6 Q. Anything else about employment that you 6 my husband. 7 think would be helpful for me to know or I should 7 Q. What's your husband's name? 8 know or... 8 A. A.O. 9 A. rm trying to think. There might have been, 9 Q. Okay. And you dated fora while and... 10 mean, some things that I'm missing. 10 A. 'mean, we dated fora little bit, and — 11 Q. Okay- 11 Q. A month, two months? 12 A. For right now, I caret — :2 A. Like a month, and it was in middle school. 13 Q. If anything else comes to mind, just I ct 13 Q. Okay. But you have known him since eighth 14 me know. 14 grade? 15 A. Yeah. A. Yes. 16 Q. Wittily history, have you ever been in :6 Q. When did you get reacquainted as 17 the military? 17 girlfriend, boyfriend/girlfriend? 18 A. No, my husband. That's it. My grandfather 18 A. It was not boyfriend/girlfriend. We became 19 was a colonel in the Army. 19 really close friends. 20 Q. Okay. And how are you doing being a Naval 20 Q. Okay. 21 wife? 21 A. Probably my junior year in high school because 22 A. It's, ifs difficult, you know. les really 22 we went to schools together but we didn't talk anymore. 23 been hard to do something like that because it's not 23 Like, it was weird. We just stopped. 24 lute yottre together all the time, you know. It's just, 24 Q. Okay. 25 it's hard to do it. You have to have a lot of strength 25 A. And then my junior year he approached me and Page 71 Page 1 in order to do that. 1 said, let's drop everything, and let's be friends again. 2 Q. All right. Well, let's get into the 2 And that's what happened so... 3 dating relationship side of things. What age did 3 Q. Was it a bad break-up in the eighth grade? 4 you start dating? 4 A. Basically - S A. Dating? 5 Q. You said drop everything. So it sounds 6 Q. Uh-huh. 6 like there was history or... 7 A. Probably when I was — dating as in 7 A. We took each others virginity. 8 boyfriend/girlfriend type of thing? 8 Q. Okay. 9 Q. Yeah 9 A. That's a lot of information, but I'm sure 10 A. My first boyfriend was actually my husband. 10 you're going to ask at some point. We took each other's 11 Q. Okay. 11 virginity. And it was just like that. It was like, you 12 A. But, I mean, we broke up and didn't talk for a 12 know, it hurt me, and ifs just like, he like went out 13 while too, so that's -- 13 of my life and I was like, wow, what just happened. 14 Q. Okay. 14 Q. Again, I need a little clarification 15 A. -- where the other people come in between. 15 there. I'm going to try and — 16 Q. How old were you when you first started 16 A. Basically, he took my virginity and acted like 17 dating? 17 a guy and just left. 18 A. !guess 13. 18 Q. Okay. When you said "hurt me," did you 19 Q. Okay. So that would still be middle 19 mean physically — 20 school time or ... 20 A. No, just hurt me -- 21 A. Yes, that was like eighth grade I dated. It 21 Q. he actually hurt -- 22 sounds weird, but I dated my husband in eighth grade. 22 A. — emotionally like I was like okay, great. 23 Q. Okay. How many significant relationships 23 That's, you know, great 24 have you had? 24 Q. How long did that bother you for? 25 yam;A. What do you mean by satificant, as in 25 A. Bothered me for a little while, you know, 19 (Pages 70 to 73) (561) 832-7500 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. EFTA00723328 Page 74 Page 76 I mean, when a girl does something like that for the first 1 Q. Okay. I assume he was stationed up there? 2 time and they just leave, it's like, okay. You know, it 2 A. Yes, and that's why it sort of had to be 3 affects you a little bit. I mean,1— it affected me 3 pushed because of the military. Because the military 4 for like a good year or two. 4 basically you get BAH, and it helps you out if you have 5 Q. Okay. And help me out here. When you say 5 a family, because if I moved there. 6 just leave 6 Q. On base? 7 A. I mean — 7 A. Yes. Q. you mean that exact night, he said 8 Q. Okay. 9 thanks, and walked out, and you didn't see him for 9 A. He would have to be living, in, you know, the 10 two or three years or the next couple of meetings 10 barracks which is like the ones that the guys that are 11 were a little awkward and then he just kind of 11 not married live in on base. And I, what would I do 12 disappeared or... 12 living there. You know. So, basically the military 13 A. Basically, like, I mean, he was there after, 13 pushed us to get married faster than we really were 14 but I mean, we still saw each other a couple times 14 planning to. Like I mean, I planned my wedding in a 15 afterward but it was awkward and when we just started 15 ample of weeks. It was a small wedding. 16 like not liking each other. 16 Q. So, how long did you date before he 17 Q. Okay. And did this experience take place 17 proposed? 18 in a house or car or — 18 A. let me think. I'm going to say a good, I'm 19 A. Yeah, in a house. 19 going to ballpark it, between five to six months. We 20 Q. — in an rush situation or was it -- 20 were actually dating because when he was in, you know, 21 A. It was house. It was my dad's house. 21 basic training in Pensacola and Jacksonville, I would 22 Q. So junior year you said you got back 22 drive and see him every weekend. 23 together? 23 Q. How is the relationship now? 24 A. Not that we got back together. We just became 24 A. Excuse mo. As of — 25 friends again. 25 Q. We can get a little water if you like. Page 75 Page 77 1 Q. Okay. I A. Oh, no, fm okay. It's just — I'm fine. As 2 A. And my feelings did come back to where I, I 2 of now, we are really trying to work on it. You know, 3 was interested again. He was a good looking guy, so 3 marriage is a very hard thing to do. You know, I have 4 Q. Well, you got married so — 4 trust issues, like I said, with men. Ws hard for me 5 A. And had a kid, so yeah, I mean- 5 to trust my husband. And if there is no trust, ifs 6 Q. Did you get married first or have the 6 hard to have a relationship. So, I'm trying to get to 7 child first? 7 the point to trust him and become closer with him. You 8 A. No, we got married first. 8 know, we, we got on bad terms, you know, since he's been ` 9 Q. Married first. 9 gone. 10 A. Yes. 10 And you know, we've had our previous 11 Q. Okay. I thought you had said you had been 11 fights before because ifs also, we're so used to 12 married for about four years so I assumed — 12 each other and familiar with each other. And, you 13 A. No, it's three. Remember I said four, and 13 know, once you're with somebody for so long, you 14 then I was like, no, three. 14 sort of lose respect. Not that you're supposed to, 15 Q. Right. 15 but we're young and we have known each other since 16 A. This December my daughter is going to be two 16 we were 13 years old. You know, it's too 17 in four days, so I mean, it was quick. Everything was 17 comfortable. And we're young. And we had a kid 18 quick. He proposed to me in October. Got married in 18 really fast, you know, that we weren't ready for. 19 December and moved to Virginia, January. Got pregnant 19 It just happened. 20 in February. 20 And it was a lot of stress on us because 21 Q. Okay. So, October to December, married? 21 when we were in Virginia, there was nobody. It's 22 A. October he proposed. 22 just me, him, and our daughter. And you know, I was 23 Q. Okay. 23 a stay-at-home mom, so I didn't have any friends, 24 A. December we got married. January I moved to 24 and it was really hard on us, and we basically got 25 Virginia with him. 25 into it a lot. And I had a lot of trust issues and 20 (Pages 74 to 77) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. EFTA00723329 Page 78 Page 80 1 I was thinking he was doing things behind my back. 1 A. No, no, no. 2 And, but now we're really trying to work it out. I 2 Q. Okay. 3 ratan, we are doing pretty good the past couple of 3 A. This was after my daughter. 4 months. 4 Q. That's what I thought I just wanted to 5 Q. Okay. Is he on a co-ed ship or -- 5 make sure I got -- 6 A. I'm sorry? 6 A. Yeah, no, no, no. He was actually pretty good 7 Q. Is he on a co-ed ship or - 7 when1 was pregnant. 8 A. Women? 8 Q. O1*. 9 Q. Uh-huh. 9 A. Sometimes. He liked to go out a lot and that 10 A. Yes, yes. 10 1had a problem with when I was pregnant. 11 Q. Do you regret getting married? 11 Q. Out meaning with the guys or... 12 A. No. I don't regret it. I mean, l feel like 12 A. Out with the guys. 13 everything went really fast Like I would have liked to 13 Q. To bars or softball... 14 have been engaged for a while and had a huge wedding and 14 A. No, to bars, which l didn't approve of but 15 planned it out fora while, and you know, maybe waited 15 that's what he felt that he had to do. 16 to have babies, but I mean, Time my daughter and I 16 Q. Are you concerned he has a problem with 17 would never take her back. She's my world. 17 alcohol? 18 But I think you should enjoy, you know, 18 A. I did. I think that be had a problem with 19 your life with your spouse for at least five years 19 alcohol because he likes to drink. He hasn't, from what 20 before you have kids. But some people, you know, 20 be's told me, which I sort of believe because when 21 things happen and you just deal with than the best 21 you're on a ship, you don't really have access to 22 way you can. 22 alcohol, that he hasn't really had that many drinks 23 Q. Has there ever been any issues of domestic 23 since he's been deployed. 24 violence between you and him either while you were 24 Q. Okay. 25 dating or since you got married? 25 A. And plus he is going up in rank, and he can Page 79 Page 81 1 A. Yeah. 1 get in trouble because people that he is, you know, he 2 Q. Did you hit him, befit you? 2 goes to a port and if he goes off with people under his 3 A. There was one encounter where we hit each 3 grade, you know as in like an13 and he get drunks with 4 other. 4 them, he can get in big trouble for that, if he, you 5 Q. What happened there? 5 know, because the drinking age is 18 in these other 6 A. He I don't remember what the fight was 6 places, but you have to be 21 because it's the ship 7 about. But he lost his temper and I threw the phone at 7 rules not -- you see what I'm saying? 8 hint And he came ova, and, because it hit him in his 8 So he can get in big trouble if he's out 9 forehead, and then he cane over and hit me with the 9 there getting wasted with these other people that 10 phone. 10 he's hanging out with and lose his rank. And he is 11 Q. Okay. So, you threw the phone at him and 11 really good at what he does. With work-wise he is 12 then he hit you with the phone? 12 very dedicated to his job. 13 A. Yeah. 13 Q. What's his MO or... 14 Q. Okay. How long ago was that? 14 A. Like what does he do? He is in AO, Aviation 15 A. That was probably — I'm going to say almost, 15 Ordinance. He works on the weapons, on the helicopters. 16 almost, almost a year and a half ago. I'm guessing a 16 Q. Okay. So class he repair it or just load 17 year. I mean, but we discussed it and never again was 17 them or both? 18 that going to happen. 18 A. He does both. He is repairing them and 19 Q. Were the police called? 19 working on than, putting than in, stuff like that. 20 A. No. 20 Q. Are you worried about him doing that type 21 Q. Okay. 21 of work? 22 A. It was sort of we just were like, what are we 22 A. Yes. It worries me because he is working with 23 doing? Late this is ridiculous so 23 explosives and, you know, all that kind of stuff. I 24 Q. I want to make sure I've got my time frame 24 mean, anything can happen. You know, they don't even 25 right. You weren't pregnant at the time? 25 let him wear his wedding ring because -- 21 (Pages 78 to 81) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. EFTA00723330 Page 82 Page 84 I 1 Q. It can cause a spark and -- 1 three months, six months? 2 A. I didn't believe him at first. He took me to 2 A. Probably around six months to a year. 3 his job and they actually have a poster of a guy missing 3 Q. Okay. Now old were you when that 4 his wedding ring finger, and this is, it says this is 4 happened? 5 what happens when you wear your wedding ring at work. 5 A. I was 14, 15. Ballparking it again, but I 6 So, I was like, okay. Yeah. So, now I believe what he 6 know it was, you know, around 14 or 15. But he was 7 is telling me. 7 older. He was like 17. 8 Q. I had a grandfather who was an electrician 8 Q. Okay. 9 and didn't wear one for the same reason. 9 A. And I -- 10 A. Oh, yeah. 10 Q. Do you remember what grade you were in? 11 Q. (Inaudible.) 11 Would that be eighth or ninth? 12 A. I understand now. But before I was like, oh, 12 A. No, it wasn't my middle school. it was like 13 sure, Fm sure that's what it is until he showed me a 13 freshman or sophomore. 14 poster and I was, like, oh, all right. I don't want you 14 Q. Okay. 15 coming out like that. 15 A. Thinking more along sophomore. I'm thinking 16 Q. Yeah. Okay. So we talked about him a 16 freshman or sophomore. I don't know, one or the two. I 17 bit. And we have got roughly four others to 17 dated him. But he treated like crap. He cheated on me 18 discuss. So who was the other significant 18 and he got into drugs. And I Imew he was cheating on me 19 relationships? 19 but i still stayed with him. And finally 1just 20 A. There was 23 couldn't take it anymore and I left him. 21 se low do you spell his last name? Q. Olc 21 Q. Okay. What type of drugs did he do? 22 A. 22 A. He just, from what I know all he did was smoke 23 Q. Okay. 23 pot, but I wasn't really — 'didn't like that. 24 A. I mean, it wasn't anything big. It was for 24 Q. How many times did he cheat on you? 25 like a, you know it was Sun — I think it was, it was 25 A. I have no idea. I really -- ifs not that I Page 83 Page 85 1 after Andy. And I dated him -- it was, I mean -- 1 caught him. I just heard about it all the time. i had 2 Q. A month, six months? 2 random girls call me and I did this with him and — 3 at It was only like a month or two also. It 3 Q. So more than once with one person? 4 wasn't anything — I was young. It was — you know, a 4 A. Him cheating? S month to me at that age was a long time. 5 Q. Yeah. 6 Q. Roughly how old or what grade? 6 A. Oh, yeah, I meant with more than one person. 7 A. It was roughly 14-ish. 7 Q. Right. 8 Q. Okay. 8 A. Yes. 9 A. We just dated and that was basically it 9 Q. Were there any issues of domestic violence 10 There was nothing really major with him. It was just 10 in that relationship, dating violence? 11 one ofmy relationships. 31 A. I mean, it was like mental abuse, just you 12 Q. Was he roughly the same age? 12 know, things, putting me down and me putting him down. 13 A. Oh, yeah. He was the same age. 13 Nothing physical. 14 Q. Why did you break up? 14 Q. I notice you're coughing a little bit. Is 15 A. Because I got annoyed with him. He just was 15 that, are you coming down with a cold, getting over 16 too clingy. 16 a cold? 17 Q. Oka right. next one? 17 A. No, my daughter had a cough and now 1 have it, 18 A. Do you want his last name? 18 but it's like I've had it fora little bit. It will 19 Q. Yes, ase. 19 go -- I smoke cigarettes, so it really doesn't help 20 A. 20 basically. 21 Q. Okay. 21 Q. Understand that. Okay. Did be have any 22 A. He was like my first like big, you know, like, 22 affiliation with any gangs or any legal problems 23 it was almost like, l don't !mow how longit was, but it 23 or... 24 was a while and I got really attached to him. 24 A. I heard that he went to jail. 25 Q. If we can ballpark that one a little bit 25 Q. Okay. =an 22 (Pages 82 to 85) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. EFTA00723331 Page 86 Page 88 A. Like, but l wasn't talking to him at this 1 respected that. 2 point It was like a couple years ago or something. I 2 So, I mean I still talked to Andy here and 3 just heard about it through people. 3 there, but wasn't like anything we used to be, 4 Q. And your, your husband Andy, does he have 4 really close friends. And then when I started like, 5 any run-in's with the law or any problems? 5 you know, feeling like was cheating on me, I 6 A. No. 6 would call Andy to talk to him about it. He was Q. SO tL So after 7 like don't worry about it, don't shees it. You A. =I there was (Spelled last 8 know. It will come out into dnen. 9 name.) 9 And basically the day broke up with 10 Q. (Misspelled last name.) 10 me, and I went to Andys house, and, you know, I was 11 A. No, (Spelled last name.) 11 crying and he was just talking to me and we became 12 Q. Okay- 12 close friends again. And that's basically, you 13 A. !dated him, 'think, I'm pretty sure it was 13 know — 14 my junior year, my junior year. And 1dated him for a 14 the circle. Is there any concerns with 15 little bit. But it was probably three to four, five 15 David cheating on you? 16 months maybe. 16 A. David cheating on me? I don't think so. 17 Q. Okay. 17 Q. Okay. And then there was -- 18 A. AM we just broke up because, I don't know. I 18 A. Oh, yeah, yeah. 19 just —I don't lcnow, I just didn't really want to be 19 Q. And then 20 with him anymore. 20 A. No, not that 1know of. No, I don't think so. 21. Q. Okay. 21 Q. Okay. 1 want to ask a little bit about 22 A. And then there was Ma 22 sexual history. And again try and be respectful and 23 23 use medical terms. 24 Q. Okay. 24 A. Yeah. 25 A. And I dated him when I was out ofhigh school. 25 Q. Do you prefer men, women, or both. Page 87 Page 89 1 We probably dated for three or four months, and then he 1 A. Men. 2 left me. 2 Q. Have you ever been with a woman? 3 Q. Okay. Maybe hard to know, but do you know 3 A. Yes. 4 why he left or... 4 Q. Okay. How many times? 5 A. He left because he wanted to party and wanted 5 A. Just one time. 6 to get into drugs and I was against, drugs or me, you 6 Q. Okay. And I know we said we would talk 7 know, I did not -- it's, ifs not me. I have tried 7 about Epstein separately, but was that one time 8 drugs, don't get me wrong, but I'm not going to be with 8 while you were at Mr. Epstein's or was that one 9 someone that's constantly doing drugs. So, I noticed he 9 time — 10 started getting into drugs, and I was just like, no, I'm 10 A. No, me, me and my friend that went, Cm sorry, 11. not. I can't deal with this. And I notice he started 11 me and my friend that went, we didn't do anything with 12 like side, you know, going offand texting people. And 12 each other. Thank goodness. 13 he was older though. He was 26 and I was 18. 13 Q. Okay. Have you done group sex? 14 Q. Were you worried he was cheating on you? 14 A. No. 15 A. Oh, yeah. But he left me and I guess he 15 Q. Now, I thought I was meant to ask this 16 wanted a girl to go party with him and stuff like that, 16 under employment history: Have you ever worked as 17 17 an adult entertainer? 18 Q. Okay. 18 A. No. 19 A. And then basically me and broke up. It 19 Q. Again Epstein issues aside, have you ever 20 was hard for me because I really did like a lot. 20 worked as a prostitute? 21 And Andy, my husband, was basically there for me for the 21 A. No. 22 break-up. And that's how we started becoming, you 22 Q. Have you ever engaged in sexual activity 23 know — because when 1 was dating Ism of 23 or favors for food, shelter, or drugs? 24 stopped talking to Andy because didn't like how 24 A. No. 25 close we were. You know. And I understood and 25 Q. Have you ever been photographed or videoed 23 (Pages 86 to 89) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. EFTA00723332 Page Page 92 1 while engaging in sexual activities? 1 A. Yea. 2 A. You mean, like me and my husband did stuff 2 Q. Okay. have you had issues or experienced 3 like that, but it was, like, between us. It wasn't like 3 men putting fingers in your anus, rectum? 4 you know — it was like stupid little things. It wasn't 4 A. No. 5 anything like being produced or anything, you know. 5 Q. Okay. Have you tried anal sex? o Q. Okay. So, you haven't worked 6 A. No. professionally in the porn industry? 7 Q. Have you used marital aides or toys with A. No, it was just like, you know, couples 8 any ofyour partners? 9 together, me and him. 9 A. Yeah. 10 Q. Were you married at that time? 10 Q. Which toys? 11 A. Yeah, l was, yeah. 11 A. Toys as in like vibrators? 12 Q. And it hasn't been posted on UTube? 12 Q. Vibrators. 13 A. No. 13 A. Yeah, just like — 14 Q. Gone viral, or clip of the week somewhere? 14 Q. Penis rings? 15 A. No, it was just me and my husband. 15 A. leez. 16 Q. Okay. 16 Q. Lotions, jells? 17 A. It was just for us. 17 A. Yes, I've used lubricant, motion lotion. 1 18 Q. If you need clarification on this 18 mean, just like not — like clit stimulators, you know. 19 question, feel free. Are you into any unusual 19 Q. Uh-huh. 20 sexual practices or practices that others may 20 A. Things like that 21 consider unusual such as fetish activities, animals, 21 Q. Okay. What age did you first use 22 bondage, S&M, infantilism, defication, urination, 22 something like that and do you still use it 23 cutting, vampires? 23 currently when you're intimate with your husband? 24 A. Oh, my gosh, no, no. Just no, no. 24 A. Oh, man. Basically, I mean, you know, I did 25 Q. Okay. And again there's a lot of fetishes 25 things alone with vibrators, you know, when I wasn't Page 91 Page 93 1 out there. I Gantt name all of them. 1 with anybody. And with my husband is like, I mean, 2 A. I mean, like — 2 besides Epstein, because Epstein did try to use a 3 Q. Special clothing? 3 vibrator on me. But Epstein aside, the only person that A. No. Just regular, I don't Imow if you want to 4 I really used, you know, toy, the toy vibrator with is 5 get into it, but just, you know- 5 my husband. s Q. Okay. Have you given oral sex? 6 Q. Okay. 7 A. To my husband, yeah. 7 A. But I have used like the lubricant with, 8 Q. Have you received oral sex? 8. probably my boyfriends, yeah, them. 9 A. From my husband, yes. 9 Q. Okay. Roughly what age do you think you 10 Q. Okay. Just with your husband? 10 first used lubricants? 11 A. Yeah, that's something, that's something, that 11. A. Probably 15, 16. 12 you know, I feel is — 12 Q. Put an approximate sign there. 13 Q. An intimate, personal — 13 A. Okay. Yeah. That's fine. I mean, that's 14 A. Yeah. 14 something that I can't put my finger on. 15 Q. Have you had anybody insert fingers into 15 Q. I understand there's been periods of 16 your vagina? 16 separation with you and your husband, him being in 17 A. Into my jeez, these are some questions. 17 the Navy. 18 Yeah. 18 A. Uh-huh. 19 Q. Roughly bow old? 19 Q. When you were together in the same 20 A. It was, j.. .trobabliso f m,. from my boyfriend 20 location, how is your personal life or your physical 21 I mean and I mean, wow, these 21 intimacy? 22 are some personal questions. 22 A. As in when my husband and I come back 23 Q. I blow. I'm not trying to be graphic. 23 together or -- 24 A. No, I know. 24 Q. Uh-huh, like the last time he was 25 Q. I'm trying to be very matter of fact. 25 stationed in town or both of you when he came back. 24 (Pages 90 to 93) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. EFTA00723333 Page 94 Page 96 A. Oh, when he — because he came here and 1 A. No. 2 visited, because I actually came here before he went on 2 Q. No. Okay. But when you were 3 his main deployment. 3 hypothetically 16, you had seen a 16-year-old? 4 Q. Okay. 4 A. Yes. 5 A. So, when he came here you are saying how was 5 Q. Okay. 15, a 15-year-old? 6 our sex life? 6 A. Huh, uh-huh. 7 Q. Yeah. 7 Q. Somebody within about three or four years? 8 A. Well, I was, after 1had my daughter, I'm not 8 A. Yeah. 9 going to lie to you, it, I wasn't interested anymore. I 9 Q. Okay. I'm trying to think if there is 10 honestly felt be was a chore. 10 anythingI've forgotten. 11 Q. Okay. 11 A. No, we have got pretty much everything 12 A. And then when he came back to see me, it was, 12 covered. Ma 13 you know, I basically got my sex drive back I guess you 13 Q. I'm sorry. One other question, how often 14 could say. 14 a month do you self-stimulate now? 15 Q. Okay. Before your daughter, ballpark, how 15 A. Oh, my goodness. Probably every other day. 16 many times a week or a month would you and your 16 Oh, my gosh. This is embarrassing 17 husband be intimate, or a day? 17 Q. Okay. Would now be a good time to talk 18 A Oh, man. Once or twice a day. 18 about Epstein, or would you prefer to talk about 19 Q. And again trying to be matter of fact -- 19 something else fora while? 20 A I understand, yeah. 20 A. It's, ifs whatever you need me to do, 21 Q. Self-stimulation, what age did you first 21 whatever you prefer me to do. 22 masturbate? 22 Q. Well, you just said this was kind ofan 23 A I didn't even -- I wasn't masturbating. Like 23 embarrassing conversation. So I don't know if you 24 I had sex before I even masturbated. Probably when I 24 wanted to -- 25 was 14. Like self-masturbation is what you're talking 25 A. He's — Page 95 Page 97 1 about, like me doing it to me? 1 Q. — do that now and get it kind of over 2 Q. Yes. 2 with — 3 A. 14,1guess. Yeah, 14, 15-ish. 3 A. Maybe I should -- Q. And there is petting or foreplay with 4 Q. (Inaudible.) 5 dating. So, I don't know if that's what you were 5 A. Yeah, probably just the — 6 wondering about? 6 Q. Or would you like to take a break, because 7 A. Yeah, that's what, but, uh-huh. 7 it's probably getting close to tape time anyway. Q. When did that start? 8 A. So, you just want to take a break? I mean, I 9 A. As in touching each other? 9 could smoke a cigarette if you want to take a break, f 10 Q. Uh.huh. 10 you say — 11 A. I told you, probably like I told you is 11 Q. Why don't we go ahead and take a break? 12 when I started it. So, what was he — did I tell you my 12 A. Okay. 13 freshman year, I think said. My freshman. I forget, 13 Q. Because I think, you know, they need to 14 freshman, sophomore year is when I dated him. 14 change out the tape in a few minutes. 15 Q. Okay. Prior to Mr. Epstein, had you seen 15 A. Yeah. Okay. 16 an adult roan naked? 16 Q. So, well just stop here. And feel free 17 A. No. 17 to grab a cigarette. 18 Q. Had you seen somebody your own age naked? 18 A. Okay. 19 A. Yeah. 19 Q. And if you would like a bottle of water or 20 Q. Your own age male would you say? 20 anything, we can get one for you. 21 A. Yeah, I mean, I mean, when you said older 21 A Thank you. 22 man — 22 Q. Another question I have for you before we 23 Q. Adult man, yeah. 23 turn off the tape is we're going to want to do some 24 A. Adult, like so, I mean -- 24 kind of fill-in-the-bubble, multiple choice tests. 25 Q. Twenty and older. 25 A. Okay. 25 (Pages 94 to 97) (561) 832-7500 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. EFTA00723334 Page 98 Page 100 Q. And I know you said you took some Adderall 1 Q. Use a soft black leaded pencil make a 2 this morning. 2 heavy dark mark in filling in the circles. If you 3 A. Yes. 3 make a mistake or change your mind, please erase the 4 Q. Would you like to do one of those when we 4 mark fully and then fill in the correct circle. Do 5 came back from the break so we don't have issues of 5 not make any marks in this booklet. There is no 6 it being later in the day and concentration being 6 time limit for completing the inventory, but it is 7 problematic? 7 best to work as rapidly as is comfortable for you. A. We can. It's yeah, whatever. 8 And this is a test that they use in 9 Q. Why don't we plan to do that when we come 9 multiple situations, circumstances. This is not 10 back. I've got two of them. We'll do one which is 10 something specifically for just this case. So, keep 11 a little shorter and then we'll talk some more. And 11 that mind when you're answering it. Answer it best 12 then probably have lunch, and then after lunch we 12 you can. 13 may do the second one. 13 A. Okay. 14 A. Second. Okay. 14 Q. If you wouldn't mind filling in those 15 Q. And then finish up? 15 questions there, and then well start on the other 16 A. Okay. Sounds fine. 16 side. 17 (A brief recess was held from 11:06 a.m. 17 A. First, second? 18 until 11:30 p.m.) 18 Q. Two major problems troubling you the most 19 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Checking audio for Tape 19 so, what is your first major, second major. 20 2 in the IME oflane Doe No. 5. This is a 20 A. I see, so, it just goes one through II: Which 21 remote monitoring. Today's date is the 20th 21 troubles ma the most - 22 day ofNovember, 2009. 22 Q. Right. They ask to pick two that troubles 23 I'm your videographer, Sasha Quimby. 23 you. 24 You're on, Doctor. 24 A. Oh, that's it? 25 25 Q. Yeah. Fill in the circles that apply in Page 99 Page 101 1 BY DR. HALL: 1 each section. Do not repeat the information page 2 Q. Okay. we're going to take this time to do 2 miles you're asked to. We'll fill that in. Use a 3 a test This is called the MCMI-3, also known as 3 number two pencil and fill the circle with heavy 4 the Milan. 4 dark marks. If you want to change an answer, erase 5 The test directions are the following 5 it carefully. Do not fill it in. Do not mark 6 pages contain a list of statements that people use 6 outside the circles. Pick the two most troubling 7 to describe themselves. They are printed here to 7 concerns for you. 8 help you in describing your feelings and attitudes. 8 A. Okay. 9 Try to be honest and as serious as you can in 9 Q. Your marital status, Ms. Jane Doe No. 5, 10 making, in marking the statements. Do not be 10 what do you consider your race ethnicity, 11 concerned if a few statements seem unusual. They 11 background? 12 are included to describe people with many types of 12 A. Me? 13 problems. 13 Q. Right. 14 If you agree with the statement or the 14 A. I'm white. 15 decide that it describes you, fill in the T on the 15 Q. Okay. 16 separate answer sheet to mark it true. 16 A. limitation. 17 If you disagree with a statement or decide 17 Q. Italian. Okay. 18 that it does not describe you, fill in the F to mark 18 (The test was begun at 11:41.) 19 it false. Again, T circle is true, F circle is 19 BY DR. HALL: 20 false. 20 Q. Did you want to take a break or get back 21 A. Understand. 21 into it? 22 Q. Try to mark every statement even if you 22 A. We can get back into. 23 are not sure of your choice. If you have tried your 23 Q. All right. 24 best and still cannot decide, mark the For false. 24 A. I broke the pencil. 25 A. Oka'. 25 O. If that's the worst thin¢ that haooetts 6-5=com 26 (Pages 98 to 101) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. EFTA00723335 Page 102 Page 104 1 today, it will be a good day. 1 A. And he was in like sweats, I guess, you know, 2 A. Yeah. 2 a sweat outfit. 3 Q. So why don't we talk about the, the 3 Q Okay. 4 Jeffrey Epstein experience. What, what happened? 4 A. And he literally took off his clothes, like, 5 A. Fran the beginning? 5 got naked, completely right there in front of my friend 6 Q. Yes, please. 6 and I and jumped in the shower. 7 A. Okay. Basically I heard from it in high 7 And while he was in the shower he told us 8 school. I don't know who. I can't put a face to the 8 to remove our clothes down to our underwear and our 9 name. I don't, I just don't remember who said 9 bra. I don't recall if we took off our bra or not 10 something. Somebody basically told me if you go to this 10 because I know he told us to take off our bra, but I 11 guy's house and give him a massage, you will receive 11 didn't feel comfortable doing that. 12 $200. I was like, okay. You know. I was like all 12 Q. If I can just stop you fora second here 13 right, you know, it doesn't sound bad. 13 A. Uh-huh. 14 You know, at that age you just don't 14 Q Did you know you were going to go over at 15 understand, you know, the consequences of what can 15 that time? 16 happen I guess. So, basically, I went with one of 16 A. I'm sorry, did I know I was going to go over 17 my friends. I took a taxi there. And Jeffrey 17 there? 18 Epstein came to the door and paid for the taxi. 18 Q. Right. 19 Q. Who did you go with? 19 A. Yeah, I knew I was going to over there. 20 A. ■ 20 Q. Where did you leave from, like your house 21 Q. Last name? 21 or Dom -- 22 A. M. 22 A. I left from my, my house. 23. Q. Okay. 23 Q. What time of the day was it, morning, 24 A. And Jeffrey Epstein came to the door and gave 24 afternoon? 25 us the money to give to the taxi. So, we paid the taxi 25 A. It was probably afternoon time. I'm guessing. Page 103 Page 105 s 1 and we came back. And IM was at the door. 1 It wasn't night. 2 Q. Sorry to interrupt. Mound what time of 2 Q. Was it during the school year or was it in 3 year was this? How old were you? 3 between or — A. Between 15 and 16, my freshman or my sophomore 4 A. I think it was during. year. It would be either my later freshman year or 5 Q. Okay. Did you wear any special clothes 6 sophomore year for sure because 1 was in Wellington High 6 when you went? 7 School, which those are the years that I wont there. 7 A. No, I thought I was giving a massage. a Q. Okay. 8 Q. Okay. So no one told you ahead of time to 9 A. And -- 9 wear a certain style or — 10 Q. Now, you took a cab. Were you old enough 10 A. No, I just thought I was going to give a 11 to drive at that period of time and just didn't have 11 massage. 12 access to a car, or was this before you got your 12 Q. Okay. 13 driver's license? 13 A. So, basically he was in die shower. He told 14 A. No, this is before I got my license. 1 got my 14 us to remove our clothes down to our underwear and take 15 license when I.was 18. 15 off our bra also but I didn't feel comfortable. So I 16 Q. Okay. 16 looked at my friend ■. -- 17 A. So, we basically paid for the taxi and we went 17 Q. Had she been there before or was that her 18 back to the door. And it wasM, his assistant 18 first time? 19 Q. Oka L_ 19 A. No, that was both of our first times. And we 20 A. So, walked us, walked as up to a 20 don't — 21 stairs through his bedroom, into this bathrvan-massage 21 Q. I'm sorry. I don't mean to interrupt but 22 area. And she told us to wait there, that he would be 22 it just — 23 right there. So, we sat on the couch just waiting and 23 A. No. 24 Jeffrey Epstein walks in. 24 Q. Was it your idea to go or her idea to go? 25 Q. Okay. 25 A. Somebody told us about this guy that you give tyy 27 (Pages 102 to 105) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. EFTA00723336 Page 106 Page 108 1 him a massage for $200 and we go. And to us at that, 1 massaging his back. You know, he talked to us. He 2 you know, we don't have that mentality to, you know, 2 asked us some questions. He asked how old we were. 3 think that something like this was going to happen. We 3 Q. Okay. 4 just thought $200 is a lot ofmoney at that age. We're 4 A. He asked, you know, how — 5 going to go. 5 Q. What did you tell him? 6 Q. Okay. 6 A. I told him our age. 7 A. And so he told us to remove our clothes. And 7 Q. Okay. So, told him you're 16? 8 at that point we looked at each other like, this is a 8 A. Fifteen or 16. 1don't remember exactly what little bit awkward. I mean, from when he got naked, we 9 age, but it was 15 or 16. And then he asked about ow 10 look at each other like, you know, wow, you know, that's 10 school, high school, how we're doing in school and stuff 11 really weird, you know. I don't know exactly what she 11 like that. 12 was feeling but I'm sure she went through the same thing 12 Q. Okay. 13 I did. I don't want to speak for her but I got really 13 A. And then I think we asked him what he did. I 14 nervous and tense, like I don't understand why this man 14 don't really remember at this point what he said. 15 is telling in to get naked and why he is getting naked 15 Q. Okay. 16 as if, you know, this is a massage, you know. 16 A. I'm trying to think what he said. 1 don't 17 So basically, he got out of the shower in 17 remember. Maybe it will come back to me. But so we did a towel and laid down on his massage bed. He laid 18 that, Fin guessing, for a half an how to an hour. And 19 face down on his massage bed, and then he, !mean he 19 while he was laying down towards, like, the end of the 20 literally removed the towel, layed down and put the 20 massage, he started feeling on my friend's leg. 2/ towel back over his butt. 21 Q. Okay. 22 22 A. And 1looked at her as in, that's a little bit 23 Q. Okay. 23 weird, you know, for him to be doing that, like what's 24 A. And you know, he gave us massage lotion and my 24 going on. 25 friend massaged his back while T massaged like his legs 25 So, she looked at me like I want to get Page 107 Page 109 1 and his feet. 1 the hell out ofhere and I looked at her, yeah, you 2 Q. How are you feeling at that point? 2 know, we need to get out ofhere. I don't know how 3 A. I was very uncomfortable but I was like, okay, 3 to do this became if the man is capable to get 4 maybe it is just a massage. But on another hand I was 4 young girls in his house, get them naked, and you 5 like why are we down to our, you know, underwear, like, 5 }mow, start doing this, I don't know else he is 6 why is it that we're doing this. 6 capable of doing. 7 Q. Did you ever think this isn't a good idea 7 And when you're that young, you know, you 8 and I should leave? 8 don't know what to do. You're in that situation. 9 A. Yeah, that went through my mind the entire 9 You know, when you put yourself — like now I can 10 time. But I was also 15 or 16 years of age and I'm not 10 sit here and be like, yeah, I should have done this 11 going to call my parents and say, you know, hey, I'm at 11 or maybe I should have done that. But when you're 12 my this guys house, come pick me up. I was cared. I 12 in that particular situation, you really can't 13 didn't know what they would think. 13 figure out what to do because you feel stuck. 1 14 Q. Scared of what? 14 mean, he was an olderman. 15 A. I was scared of getting in trouble. You know. 15 Q. Not to sound fimnry but 16 Q. Okay. 16 A. NO, go ahead. 17 A. You know, in a way at that time period, at 17 Q. He's capable of getting a young girl and 18 that age I felt like I was putting myself into that 18 getting them naked, I mean, he didn't ask you to 19 situation. But over the years I've learned that that's 19 come, did be? 20 basically what he wanted us to feel. That's why he 20 A. No, he didn't ask me to come, but he was 21 targeted young girls, because they were timid to call 21 soliciting in a high school and saying it's a $200 22 their parents and tell them they are at some guys house 22 massage. 23 and he's telling us to get naked. You know. 23 Q. Okay. How do you know he was soliciting 24 Q. All right. 24 in the school? .25 A. And basically I'm massaging his legs and she's 25 A. Because I've heard of many girls that went and 28 (Pages 106 to 109) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. EFTA00723337 Page 110 Page 112 1 did it. And he says — at the end of the story, I'm 1 somebody asked you for something and you said no and 2 going to tell you, he said if you bring somebody back 2 they got violent? 3 and tell them its a $200 massage, l will give you $400. 3 A. I'm not — I mean, not like that situation. 4 Q. Okay. Did he specifically tell you the 4 But I mean, I've had, like, you know, 1 told you about 5 person you bring back should be somebody from high 5 my stepfather and stuff like that that he would get 6 school? 6 upset with me. 'don't know if that is why I sort of 7 A. He just said any, you know, anybody that you 7 gave in because of my past experiences of getting in 8 know, any of your friends. 8 trouble so much with, you know, my father and my 9 Q. Okay. 9 stepfather and all that. It was sort ofintimidating 10 A. So — basically. 10 for me. Maybe that was why. 11 Q. And when he asked you to take off your 11 But from me, I'm speaking for myself, 12 clothes, he asked. Did he threaten? 12 nobody else, that's maybe why I sort of went through 13 A. He didn't threaten but when you're that 13 with it that I was scared that something was going 14 young — 14 to happen that was worse than what was going to 15 Q. Did he raise his voice? :5 happen. I mean, I had no idea what to think. 16 A. No, he didn't raise his voice, but it's 16 Q. And you said that you had heard about this 17 intimidating when you're that young and he is that old. 17 at school and that other girls had done this? 18 It's intimidating. 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Again, not to sound funny, but if any old 19 Q. Had you heard ofany of them having any 20 man carne up to you and asked you to take off your 20 violence, any problems? 21 clothes, would you do it? 21 A. Well, I heard of, this was after the fact that 22 A. Not on the street or anything like that. But 22 I did when I heard about like people doing this. Before 23 when you're actually in that situation at his house, and 23 some girl mentioned to me about — the fast time I 24 you're scared of what could happen if you possibly 24 heard about it was the rust time I ever even heard of 25 declined what he was saying, yeah. You know, you have 25 his name or anything. Page 111 Page 113 1 to be in that situation. You know, I mean, any random 1 Q. And you don't remember which girls it was? 2 old man that came up to me and said, hey, take offyour 2 A. I have no idea. 3 clothes, no, I wouldn't do that. 3 Q. What she looked like? 4 But I was in that situation to where I was 4 A. I really have no idea. Like, I don't 5 at his house with no money, took a taxi there. I 5 remember. 6 had a phone but I'm scared to call my parents. Now, 6 Q. Same class, same age, did you know her, 7 what am I supposed to do? I mean, what if I walk 7 not know her? 8 out and he starts getting violent with us. You 8 A. I think I was acquaintances, but I don't if' 9 know. We're young. Our mentality isn't that it is 9 I was close to her, I would have remembered her. I 10 today. You know. Today maybe it would have been 10 really don't know. Like I have been asked this before, 11 different. When you're that young — 11 I really could not remember. 12 Q. Okay. Tell me, why were you worried he 12 Q. Okay. 13 could get violent? 13 A. I really don't. 14 A. Why because he is capable ofhaving young 14 Q. Do you think ■. would remember? 15 girls at his house. Its sick, its — if — 15 A. I've asked her, but she doesn't remember 16 Q. I'm not sure how one necessarily directly 16 either. I mean, I've asked her if she has, and she 17 correlates to violence. 17 said — I've asked her to give the answer, but I don't 18 A. I'm sorry. That what? 18 rent 19 Q. Just because he had young girls at his 19 Q. Okay. So, he's grabbing her. 20 house, how does that make him prone to violence? 20 A. Yes. He starts grabbing her on her leg, on 21 A. Because if you decline somebody, they could 21 her butt. 22 get violent as in if you said no, there is a possibility 22 Q. Okay. 23 that they can get mad or upset. They want what they 23 A. And at this point, at this point we're very 24 want. 24 uncomfortable, you know, from us taking our clothes off, 25 Q. Okay. Did that happen to you before where 25 from him taking his clothes off, to now he's touching 29 (Pages 110 to 113) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. EFTA00723338 Page 114 Page 116 1 her. It scans like it's escalating, you know, and we 1 A. Yeah. 2 were scared. We didn't know what to do. So then, you 2 Q. Okay. So, touching your friend's leg, I 3 know, he was touching her for a while and fondling her 3 think you said he turned over? 4 and you could see it in her face that she was very 4 A. Ub-hub. 5 uncomfortable. So then he flips over. 5 Q. Okay. What -- 6 Q. Did either of you ask him to stop? 6 A. Started turning over and then he started 7 A. There was a point what I go through the 7 masturbating. 8 story, there's points where I told him to stop, yes. 8 Q. Okay. 9 Q. Okay. But just at this point — 9 A. So at this point I just, !wanted to get out 10 A. At this point we didn't -- 10 of there. I really did. I stood behind my friend 11 Q. He said take off your clothes, you didn't 11 Q. Okay. 12 say stop? 12 A. And he basically liked his nipples to be 13 A. When you're in the moment of what's going on, 13 played with. So, he basically took my friend's hands 14 it's not like you're siding there and like, okay, you 14 and put them on his nipples. And I was behind her and I 15 know, what should I do right now, what's the good thing 15 was litre whispering to her like, we need to get out of 16 to do. You're that young. You're not thinking at that 16 here. This is crazy. Like I don't !mow what to do. 17 level. You know, it's not like you could just — 17 So, you know, he is masturbating and she's 18 Q. You're, you're 15, 16, so Pm mean - 18 touching his nipples. And you know, he's, doing his 19 A. Yeah, but you're not — 19 thing with breathing all heavy. And I basically 20 Q. — Ws not like you're eight? 20 just wanted to get out of there. And we didn't know 21 A. No, it's not like you're eight. 21 what to do. And then he starts, you know, fondling 22 Q. You know, l mean — 22 her with his hand while he's masturbating, and he's 23 A. It's also like you don't have the mentality 23 trying to go in her panties and — 24 that I would now. 24 Q. Okay. Sony. I don't mean to get 25 Q. Fair enough. But at the same time, did 25 graphic, fondling her, touching her chest? Page 115 Page 41 1 you ask him to say, no, I don't feel comfortable 1 A. Everything, touching her breasts. He was 2 taking my clothes off? 2 touching her vagina. 3 A. Yeah, I did tell him at one point 3 Q. Did she still have her bra on at this 4 Q. Was that the first time you went and he 4 time? 5 first asked -- 5 A. I don't think she had her bra on at this time. 6 A. When he went to touch me, I told him I didn't 6 Q. Okay. 7 feel comfortable. 7 A. I don't — everything went so fast during 8 Q. Okay. And again, when you, when he asked 8 this. 9 to take off your clothes, did you say I'm not 9 Q. Did she take it off or did he take it off? 10 comfortable being down to my underwear? 10 A. I think she took it off. 1 don't, honestly I 11 A. No. 11 don't1010w. I'm not going to say specifics. I don't 12 Q. No. When he first started touching your 12 remember that. 13 friend's leg, did either you or your friend say, 13 Q. Well, specifics are helpful here so -- 14 please, don't touch me there? 14 A. I understand specifics are helpful. I just 15 A. No, but we did start getting uncomfortable. I 15 don't really t wieldier that Like, I will tell you as 16 mean, we're in that situation. We have to figure out 16 much as I remember. I just don't remember that exact 17 what to do. When you're in that exact situation, as 1 17 thing. 18 said - 18 Q. Your best recollection, though, is she had 19 Q. Okay. 19 her bra off at this time? 20 A. — it's hard to sit there and 20 A. Yes, fm pretty sure. 21 Q. No, I'm just trying to figure out what you 21 Q. Do you think she took it off herself? 22 actually did at each point. 22 A. I, I, think so. 23 A. Yeah. 23 Q. Okay. 24 Q. Pm not trying to pass judgment. Pm just 24 A. I mean — 25 tying to understand. 25 Q. Did you still have your bra on? J 30 (Pages 114 to 117) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. EFTA00723339 Page 119 Page 120 A. Yes. 1 out a vibrator. 2 Q. Okay. You're standing behind her? 2 Q. Okay. So, the first time you went, it was 3 A. Pm standing behind her and that's when 3 two of you. He touched you on the outside of your whispered, I said we've got to get out of here. 4 underwear? 5 Q. Okay. 5 A. He tried to go in my underwear also. 6 A. And she's just, like, I know. 6 Q. Okay. Q. And he was touching her down below as 7 A. But I told him, like, no, like I don't feel B well? 8 comfortable. 9 A. Yes. 9 Q. Okay. 10 Q. Did she have her underwear on? 10 A. So then he pulled out a vibrator. 11 A. Yes. 11. Q. So when you told him don't go inside, he 12 Q. Okay. Could you see him touching her? 12 stopped doing that? 13 A. Not that I saw him exactly. I mean, I knew he 13 A. He didn't completely stop. He kept 14 was touching her because I could see his hand down in 14 persisting. I kept saying, no, I don't feel 15 that area. But it was like I saw from the front. 15 comfortable. No, I don't feel comfortable. And he 16. Q. But you couldn't see his fingers, exactly 16 just, just let it go, just let it happen. Just let it 17 where they were? 17 go. That's what he kept saying to me. 18 A. No. 18 Q. Okay. 19 Q. Or if they were on the outside of the 19 A. And I was like, I don't feel comfortable, 20 tmdensear? 20 stop, please. And he would, kept persisting and then he 21 A. Yeah, I couldn't really tell. 21 reached over and got a vibrator. 22 Q. Okay. 22 Q. Okay. 23 A. And basically, you know, she was saying she 23 A. So basically he tried to use the vibrator on 24 felt uncomfortable. And that's when we started to say 24 me and her. At one point I was just like, okay, maybe 25 this is not right; Pm uncomfortable. 25 if I just like, let it happen it could just be over Page 119 Page 121 1 Q. She said that to him? 1 with. I want to get out of here. So I stopped talking 2 A. Yes. 2 fora second, and I let him put it there. And then I 3 Q. Do you remember what she said? 3 decided, I couldn't do it. I was like, I don't feel 4 A. Well, when I — basically he started doing it 4 comfortable doing this. I really don't. And he kept 5 tome. 5 persisting again. He just kept saying the same thing to 6 Q. Okay. Now, are you still standing behind 6 me which is the one that replays through my mind all the 7 her? 7 time, just let it go, just let it happen. 8 A. Yeah, basically but he was reaching over and 8 Q. Okay. 9 pulling me to the side of her. 9 A. And the same situation happened with He 10 Q. Okay. 10 tried it with her. He kept persisting and persisting. 11 A. So, I was uncomfortable. And he basically was 11 Q. Okay. Now, were you still standing right 12 touching me in, you know in my private area, vagina. 12 next to the table? 13 And — 13 A. It was like before in the beginning it was me 14 Q. On the outside of the underwear? 14 and her. I was behind her like this. And then he son 15 A. The outside. 15 of pulled me like, sort of like this with her. 16 Q. Okay. 16 Q. Okay. How forcefully did he pull you? 17 A. And I told him to stop numerous times. I 17 A. He like grabbed me and pulled me to the side. 18 said, stop, I feel uncomfortable. 18 It wasn't like he was jerking me over to the side, but 19 Q. Okay. 19 he pulled me over to the side. 20 A. The thing he kept repeating to me is just let 20 Q. But I'm just trying to get an image of 21 it go, just let it happen, just let it go. 21 this in my head. So, he's laying face up on the 22 Q. Okay. 22 table? 23 A. And I just kept saying, you know, I don't, I 23 A. Well, he's on the table like this, but he is 24 don't really feel comfortable. This is not comfortable 24 like this. 25 for me. The same scenario happened. And then he pulled 25 Q. Okay. So he reached over — 31 (Pages 118 to 121) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. EFTA00723340 Page 122 Page 124 A. He reached over. 1 A. No, I told — you know, !told him like i 2 Q. One handed? 2 don't feel comfortable. i don't want to do this but I 3 A. Yes. 3 didn't, you know, physically say, hey, I want to leave. 4 Q. And moved you over? 4 Lace I just said, I don't want to do this; i don't feel 5 A. Yes. 5 comfortable. 6 Q. Okay. Did you resist? 6 Q. Okay. Was this — what happened after he 7 A. I was pulling, l %V8S nervous and I was pulling 7 ejaculated? 3 away but he just kept, come over here, da, da, da. So, 8 A. Basically he ejaculated. He cleaned himself 9 I did. 9 up and then, you know, he spoke to us and said, you 10 Q. Okay. So, and again, and I'm not trying 10 know, you bring a girl back that you know that's one of 11 to blame or I'm just trying to get a sense of, he 11 your friends, and I will give you 400 and you tell her 12 had his hand on, applied force to move you? 12 ifs a massage and, you know, I will give her 200. 13 A. He did apply force because I sort of resisted 13 Q. And that would mean he would give you 400 14 like, uh-huh, I don't want to do this. And he, come on, 14 meaning whoever — 15 pulled me over. 15 A. If I brought — 16 Q. But you did step, walls, it wasn't just his 16 Q. You bring her — 17 force alone that moved you? 17 A. — a friend, l get 400. 18 A. Yeah. 18 Q. You get 400. 19 Q. Okay. Did you have any bruising? 19 A. And the friend I bought would get 200 and he 20 A. No. 20 would do the same thing with her. 21 Q. Okay. And when he was touching you with 21 Q. Okay. Did you bring anyone? 22 the vibrator at any time did you step back? 22 A. No. 23 A. Yeah. 23 Q. Okay. What happened after you left or how 24 Q. Okay. 24 did you leave actually since you said you aunt — 25 A. And he pulled me back forward. 25 A. By the taxi. The taxi gave me his card. So, Page 123 Page 125 1 Q. He would grab you with the same level of 1 we got the taxi and he gave us the money and we left. I 2 force? 2 paid the taxi with my money. 3 A. He was just like come here, and he pulled me 3 Q. Did you have any money on you when you 4 forward. 4 first left or first went to the house? 5 Q. Okay. One handed while he's still on his 5 A. No. 6 back? 6 Q. What did you do in the taxi? A. Yes, yes. 7 A. I just talked about how disgusting i felt. a Q. And he didn't use force to the point of 8 Q. Okay. And what did say? 9 causing bruising? 9 A. She said the sant thing, that she couldn't, 10 A. No. 10 she didn't understand why that happened, and why they 11 Q. All right. 1 didn't tell us that it was that, and that it wasn't just 12 A. And basically he, same repeated thing of what 2 a massage. 13 I've been telling you, the touching, the vibrating. And 13 Q. Okay. You said that they didn't tell us. 14 then he ejaculated. And me and my friend felt disgusted 14 Was it one girl that approached you or 15 and just wanted to leave. 15 A. Well, I'm guessing it was one person. It was 16 Q. At any time did you feel that your life 16 one person but I don't — 17 was threatened? 17 Q. Okay. Did you go back? 18 A. i felt my life was threatened when I wanted to 18 A. 'went back, but I didn't go upstairs. I 19 leave and he kept, you know, pulling me closer and 19 didn't go — it wasn't like I wanted hi go. I was in a 20 pulling me. Like I wanted to leave. I wanted to go and 20 car and these girls wanted to go and i didn't want to go 21 leave. And I thought my life would probably be in 21 with them, so I sat in the kitchen. 22 danger if I said I wanted to go and I didn't want to do 22 Q. Okay. And who were the girls that went 23 this, yes. 23 that time? 24 Q. Okay. So you wanted to leave but you 24 A. and (phonetic). .25 didn't tell him you wanted to leave? 25 Q. Okay. And the same? ‘nusama---. 32 (Pages 122 to 125) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. EFTA00723341 Page 126 Page 128 A. Yes. 1 Q. Okay. And why didn't you take them up on 7 Q. And what is her last name again? 2 the offer of dropping you off? A. M. 3 A. They, they were driving. I wasn't. They 4 Q. And which is M? 4 wouldn't drop me off because they were already headed 5 A. 5 that way, because they wouldn't tell me where we were 6 Q. All right. around your age, 6 going to go. 1 younger or older? 7 Q. All right. So, they wouldn't like, stop A. She was, yeah, she was in our grade. I don't 8 at the gas station, let you get out and come back 9 talk to her anymore. 9 and get you in an hour or 10 Q. Was that first time? 10 A. They just — we didn't even think of that. I 11 A. Yes. 11 just didn't want to go. I told them to take me home. 12 Q. How did she know about it? 12 Q. Okay. So, when you said, you know, drop 13 A. I don't know. I didn't even talk about it. I 13 me off, you meant drop me off at home? 14 just went them and I sat in the kitchen. I really 14 A. Yeah, take me home. 15 didn't even want to go. 15 Q. Okay. Were you angry at them? 16 Q. Did bring her or — 16 A. I was upset, yeah. 17 A. Yeah, . brought her but I didn't go up. I 17 Q. Okay. 18 didn't— 18 A. And I was really disgusted at for 19 Q. So M. got 400 for bringing her? 19 going through with what she was doing because I just 20 A. I guess. I didn't I have no idea. I 20 told her exactly what happened, because I wish I would 21 didn't even want to be there, but I was with them. 21 have known that because I would have never did that. 22 Q. Did M. tell her what to expect? 22 Q. So, you did tell exactly what 23 A. I have no — honestly, I don't even know. I 23 happened? 24 just was with them. I don't know if she talked to her 24 A. Yeah, I said it's not just a massage, 25 previously. I didn't even know we were going there. 25 It's worse than a massage. He is going to Page 127 Page 129 1 Q. Okay. And did you tell what to 1 try to do thing; to you. 2 expect once you found out you were going there? 2 Q. Okay. 3 A. I told her not to go. I said you don't want 3 A. So I, I tried to tell her but whatever. 4 to do this. I'm tolling you right now. 4 Q. And again I want to make sure I'm clear. 5 Q. What did she say? 5 You didn't get any money when came? 6 A. Oh, she's, she's out there. But she didn't 6 A. No. I wasn't, I didn't want to be involved. 7 care. So, I wish somebody would have told me Mine I 7 Q. Did you go back any more times? 8 did that. 8 A. No. 9 Q. So, ! mean you had a frank conversation 9 Q. No. 10 With her, don't go — 10 A. No. 11 A. Well, because when they told me where we're 11 Q. So, you only went twice — 12 going, I was like 12 A. I went the one time and did that for the first 13 Q. This man is going to masturbate - 13 time that I had no idea what was going on. And the 14 A. -- I don't want to go there. And is, 14 second time it wasn't like I went there on, you know, 15 lIke, oh, whatever, dude. That's how she talks. Oh, 15 myself intentionally. It was like I sod of just was 16 whatever, dude, I don't care. I want the money. I'm 16 there. 17 like, I'm telling you, it's traumatizing. You don't 17 Q. Okay. 18 want to go there. I don't want to go there. Drop me 18 A. And I didn't want anything to do with it and I 19 off. 19 sat in the kitchen. 20 Oh, no, we're going to go there 20 Q. What happened while you were in the 21 regardless, da, da, da. I was like I don't want to 21 kitchen? 22 go. I don't want to go. And then I sat in the 22 A. Nothing. I seriously just sat there and 23 kitchen. And I, that was all. I was like you do 23 talked to the chef, which I found out the chef was an 24 what you want. I'm telling you right now it is not 24 undercover agent or undercover FBI or whatever they 25 good. 25 were. 33 (Pages 126 to 129) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. EFTA00723342 Page 130 Page 112 1 Q. So - 1 Q. Okay. 2 A. That's from what I heard. 2 A. But I, I was scared. I didn't want people to 3 Q. And help me there with "what I heard," 3 find out. 4 meaning from other people in the school or — 4 Q. Okay. What do you mean by scared? 5 A. That's what I've heard -- 5 A. I'm sorry? 6 Q. — basically the news -- 6 Q. What do you mean by scared? Scared 7 A. That's basically — they had some somebody 7 like — 8 investigating him and it was a chef that was undercover Es A. !just didn't WWII people to find out. I 9 and stuff Ile that. So, I don't — it's not like for a 9 just — it was — I didn't like — I felt like it was a 10 fact. I don't know. 10 traumatic experience for me. I felt disgusting. I 11 Q. Do you remember what you talked to the 11 felt, you know, taken advantage of. I felt like, I 12 chef about? 12 don't like to third( about it, and I didn't want to 13 A. 'think, I believe his cooking to be honest 13 re-live it I didn't want my family to find out. I 14 with you. It wasn't like I was, like, having a huge 14 didn't want anybody to know. 15 conversation. I just was sitting there and I talked to 15 Q. Okay. So, you didn't talk to your mom 16 him about other, food. 16 about it or... 17 Q. And, yeah, I was just curious, I mean, was 17 A. I mean I did after years passed when I became 18 it food or this is an odd situation, or I'm 18 more, like, you know, an adult. But in the beginning, 19 surprised I'm back here or just — 19 no, I didn't tell anyone. 20 A. I was — it was just everything. I didn't 20 Q. Was this before the police started 23. want to be there. 21 investigating or after the police were investigating 22 Q. Okay. Did you use any drugs or substances 22 that you talked with them about it? 23 when you went the first time? 23 A. I think it was a little bit like, probably 24 A. No. 24 like a year before I spoke to her about, until the 25 Q. When you went the second time did you use 25 police, FBI contacted me. Page 131 Page 1 -' 1 1 any drugs or substances? 1 Q. I'm — I just want to make sure I got that 2 A. Unh-unh. 2 straight. You spoke with her a year before the FBI 3 Q. Did you use any, excuse me, after the 3 contacted you? 4 first time or the second time? 4 A. Ufthuh, about, I'm just saying, like, Pm 5 A. Maybe right after you're talking about? 5 approximating like - 6 Q. Yes. 6 Q. Yeah. 7 A. No. 7 A. -- spoke to her about it and talked to her 8 Q. What was the worst thing that happened 8 about what happened. 9 while you were there in your mind? I mean, I heard 9 Q. But definitely before they contacted you? 10 the story, and as you said I can only say what — 10 A. Yes. 11 A. What as the worst thing, experience? 11 Q. Okay. What was her reaction? 12 Q. What was the most distressing, worst — 12 A. She asked, she asked me what happened. Sat me 13 A. The worst feeling? I felt stuck, that I 13 down, and, you know, how did you get there, same thing. 14 couldn't get out of the situation. 14 How did you get there. Why did you feel like you 15 Q. And in terms of physically what happened, 15 couldn't leave? Why wouldn't you call me? I just told 16 what was most distressful for you? 16 her, !said, you know, I was scared. I was scared you 17 A. Being taken advantage of. 17 guys wore going to be mad at me for even going there. I 18 Q. Okay. Were you dating anyone at this 18 mean, you're at an old man's house and you — I just 19 time? 19 thought it was a massage, but it was, it was scaly. I 20 A. I don't Mink I was. 20 mean, yeah, you say like, yeah, I was 15 or 16, it 21 Q. Did you tell anyone about this? 21 wasn't like I was eight. But still at that age, you 22 A. No. I felt, I felt ashamed. 22 didn't have the mentality that you do today. 23 Q. Okay. Did you consider going to the 23 Q. What was the different mentality? 24 police? 24 A. I probably would have just tried to get up and 25 A. I thought about it. 25 leave or got in my car and left because I, you know, now 34 (Pages 130 to 133) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. EFTA00723343 Page 134 Page 136 1 I'm aware of, okay, ifs wrong. Okay. Pm not going to 1 imagine. 2 get into trouble because I didn't know that it consisted 2 Q. And how is that past trauma carrying over 3 of this. 3 to you today? 4 But at this point I was like, wow, Pm 4 A. Like I told you, my daughter, I don't trust here. !thought it was a massage but it's more. My 5 men around her whatsoever. i don't trust men. You 6 parents are going to think that I knew it was more. 6 know, I have flashback& You know, sometimes during my 7 It's, it's, you're scared. You're frightened. 7 husband and I have sex, there is like, since I have been 3 You're young. 8 re-living this image of him doing his, you know, thing, 9 Q. Just so, scared of parents finding out and 9 comes into my mind. it's disgusting. 10 what your parents would think? 10 Q. Okay. So, when you say flashbacks, you 11 A. Exactly. I mean, l felt disgusting 11 mean you have a mental image? 12 Q. How long did you still feel disgusting 12 A. I mean I have a mental image of what he did as 13 for? 13 when he was masturbating and stuff like that. 14 A. I still feel taken advantage of to this day on 14 Q. Okay. Do you ever physically feel as if 15 that whole situation. Like i don't like this whole 15 it's reaming, that you're beck in that time? 16 situation because I have to re-live it. i try to block 16 A. I don't physically feel like that, but 17 it out. 17 mentally it goes through my mind and it disgusts me. 18 Q. Oby. Did you consider not filing a 18 And I just, it grosses me. it disgusts me. I don't 19 lawsuit or not joining the lawsuit? 19 like tore-live that. 20 A. Did I consider it as in I didn't want to do 20 Q. The issue with men, can it be related to 21 it? 21 anything else? 22 Q. Yeah. 22 A. Could it be related to anything else? I mean, 23 A. I think in the beginning, yes, I didn't know 23 you know, my stepfather did what he did, but it's not 24 what I wanted to do because I knew if I went through 24 like I didn't, not Dust him. When I stopped trusting 25 with this, that I would have to re-live everything 25 men was, like, you know, my sophomore-junior year is Page 135 Page 137 1 went through. 1 when I just was like all men are disgusting. They all 2 Q. Okay. 2 just want sex. They'll lure any woman in or girl in to 3 A. Like these, I don't enjoy. I don't enjoy it 3 get it any way they can. 4 in any way. 4 Q. I think i forgot to ask this specifically. 5 Q. I don't think anybody does. 5 You said you had five significant relationships. 6 A. No. I don't think anybody does either. I 6 How many sexual partners have you had? 7 just didn't know if I wanted to put myself through all 7 A. All the relationships that I have told you is 8 this again. 8 my sexual partners. 9 Q. What made you change your mind or decide 9 Q. Okay. So there is no other additional 10 to go one way or the other? 10 sexual partners out there? It's just those? 11 A. I just feel like in the beginning I wasn't 11 A. Those, yes. 12 going to do it I was like I don't know if I want to 12 Q. Okay. 13 deal with all this, you know, because I know it's a lot 13 A. Uh-huh. If I think of anyone else, I will let 14 of, you know, stress going back into the details, and 14 you bow, but I'm pretty sure that's it. 15 re-living the entire thing, and, you know, bringing it 15 Q. Okay. No one-night stands and casual sex, 16 back out, which I didn't want to do. 16 no key parties and things like that? 17 But I was, like, you know what, what he 17 A. No. 18 did was wrong. And he needs to be punished for it. 18 Q. !think they were a lot bigger in the 19 !don't think what he did was right Like I was 19 '60s. 20 traumatized from this experience in my life and he 20 A. Yeah, that's — I was, I was after that time. 21 just got nothing. He just did this to all these 21 Q. Okay. All right. What else? 22 girls and he's fine. It's not right And Tm sure 22 A. I mean, just basically I mean, it affected me 23 I'm not — I'm only one of the many girls that he's 23 and I just, I get upset with the fact — this is what 24 probably traumatized. And Pm sure there's, you 24 upsets the most is that, you know, he got away with 25 know, so many girls that are just -- I can't even 25 doing this. You know, everybody has their own opinion 1........40,646.4.1......}•••••••pe , EIF 35 (Pages 134 to 137) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC.. EFTA00723344 Page 138 Page 140 1 of what they think, but you have to actually re — you 1 A. It was M. 2 know, live that and go through that to judge how we 2 Q. And when you mean "her," you mean your 3 actually felt and mentally went through our mind. 3 Isnot 4 You know, you say we could have just got 4 A. Yes, my attorney. up and left. But it wasn't that easy when you're in 5 Q. I don't want to know anything you — 6 that situation. It's harder. You know, there's a 6 A. Yeah. 7 ton of things running through your mind, and you 7 Q. said in between but just — a don't know what to do. You're scared. You don't 8 A. No, yeah, my, my attorney. She said I could 9 want to call your parents. You're scared they are 9 tell you. 10 going to get mad at you for being there. 10 Q. Only if you're comfortable. I don't want 11 It's — you Just feel disgusting. You 11 to know attorney-client information. 12 know, it's not like I intentionally put myself in 12 A. Oh, yeah, that's fine. 13 that situation. Like I know I was going to his 13 Q. Okay. 14 house to do what I did. I did not know anything 14 A. M. 15 about that. And if I did, I would have not have 15 Q. How do you spell the last name or best 16 gone and thats that. 16 guess? 17 18 19 Q. Did you think it was odd that somebody was willing to pay $200 for a high school student who wasn't certified, trained, taught on how to do a 17 18 19 Okay. A. I think it's Il.(Last name spelled.), I think. Q. A. , which you have her name. • which you 20 massage? 20 have her name. And then 23. A. Did I think it was odd? I mean, it crossed my 21 Q. I'm sorry, B or 22 mind like, hum, this is weird. But from what this 22 A. M• (First name spelled.) 23 person told me, I thought I could trust what she said, 23 Q. Okay. 24 so — 24 A. M. (Last name spelled.) 25 Q. Okay. And I know you said you have no 25 Q. Thank you? Page 139 Page 143. 1 memory — it's just hard for me to believe that you 1 A. (Completion of spelling.) I think. 2 wouldn't remember who told you that even after the 2 Q. Close enough. All right. Did you find 3 fact because it was such a bad experience for you — 3 out about this after the fact? Or, I mean I know 4 A. Yeah, Fin not -- I really don't. 4 said she kind of -- 5 Q. -- that you would have been lice, wow, I 5 A. Yeah, I knew about because I brought M. 6 can't believe that person did this to me. 6 with me, and I knew about because she did, but 7 A. I am. 7 then after the fact, yes, I found out later that 8 Q. I'm angry at them. I want to kick their 8 everybody, you know, they did it. 9 butt. 9 Q. Okay. We're still going to be talking for 10 A. I know what you're saying. 10 a while, but is there anything else about this 11 Q. Dm not sure — 11 incident, episode with Mr. Epstein that you think I 12 A. But I, honestly! have been trying to figure 12 should know or I haven't asked or... 13 it out because everybody has been asking me and I really 13 A. I mean, I pretty much covered what happened, 14 don't -- I cannot (inaudible) about it. 14 the experience. Told you it was traumatic. It makes me 15 Q. I mean, this person could have been 15 feel disgustingg. To this day I don't like to think 16 sitting next to you in school the next week, and -- 16 about it. I don't like to do this. 17 A. I, (don't -- 17 Q. Okay. Have you had any other traumatic 18 Q. — you wouldn't have — 18 experiences? 19 A. I mean, it would have but I just, today I 19 A. What do you mean by traumatic experiences? 20 cannot picture. I don't know who it was. 20 Q. Well, it's your words. But what do you 21 Q. Okay. Earlier I asked you if any of your 21 mean by traumatic? 22 friends had gone. And you said there were a few but 22 A. I could, okay, like I would say that's 23 you — 23 traumatic, but there's different, you know — 24 A. Yeah, I, I spoke to her. She said yeah. 24 Q. Theories? .25 Q. Okay. 25 A. Exactly. Like, you know, when my grandmother 36 (Pages 138 to 1 4 1) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. EFTA00723345 Page 142 Page 144 1 got her leg amputated, I consider that a traumatic 1 Q. Okay. I, I appreciate that response. I 2 experience. 2 understand that, you know, people say, you know, my 3 Q. Okay. So, this is traumatic. Where would 3 mother died and 20 years later I still think of her 4 you put it on the traumatic scale? 4 and, you know. 5 A. What's the scale, as in — 5 A. Yeah. 6 Q. As you said some are more than others. 6 Q. When I ask how long did that affect you, I 7 A. I mean that was — I mean, traumatic to me 7 mean in terms of emotional upset before you felt 8 this is my definition -- 8 like, yeah, lost something but life is back to 9 Q. Yeah, and I'm not trying to be coy or... 9 normal, if that makes sense? 10 A. Yeah. Pm saying traumatic to me is something 10 A. Probably like, you know, a month or so. I 11 that happened to me major in life so -- 11 mean, I -- it wasn't like I was sitting there crying 12 Q. Okay. 12 every day which might sound bad, but, I mean, I would 13 A. In that, my grandmother getting her leg 13 sit there and just think about him, like, wow, I can't 14 amputated that affected me emotionally because I was sad 14 believe he's gone. Like it didn't feel real. 15 for her and I didn't want to her to go through that. 15 Q. Okay. 16 That's a traumatic experience to me as of that. 16 A. You know? 17 Now, the Jeffrey Epstein thing is a 17 Q. So, for about a month, and I'm not trying 18 completely different traumatic experience than, you 18 to put words in your mouth — 19 know, family wise and you're caring about her and 19 A. Yeah, fin just — yeah, I will approximate it. 20 her going into surgery and losing her leg. 20 Q. And again tsarina, as you said, is a 21 Q. Okay. 21 major usually people say it's a negative event in 22 A. Maybe I sound like a retard talking like this, 22 someone's life. 23 but that's just how I'm explaining it. 23 A. Yeah. 24 Q. No, and I'm asking for your experience - 24 Q. Because weddings and things can be a 25 A. Yeah. 25 traumatic event. Page 143 Page 145 Q. — perspective, so I — anything else that 1 A. Yeah. 2 happened in your life that you found to be 2 Q. Most people don't consider those 3 traumatic? 3 traumatic. 4 A. The Jeffrey Epstein which I already told you. 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Uh-huh. 5 Q. Is storms, I mean, we're in Florida, ever 6 A. The one time my step-father fractured my 6 have problems with any the hurricanes? 7 eardrum. 7 A. Yeah, hurricanes, I went through that, would 8 Q. Yeah. 8 consider it a traumatic experience. 9 A. And that's basically it. 9 Q. Any car accidents? 10 Q. Anybody you know passed away? 10 A. No. 11 A. Close to me, not really. 11. Q. Okay. 12 Q. Okay. 12 A. I mean, I have had a car accident but it 13 A. I mean, my Pap-pap (phonetic), my dad's dad 13 wasn't — 14 died. !mean, that was hard for me, but I was never 14 Q. Right, and I'm asking if it was — 15 really close, close to him. It hurt but it wasn't - 15 A. Traumatic, no. 16 that sounds bad but honestly, I wasn't that close to 16 Q. — what you would consider a traumatic 17 him. I didn't know him that well. 17 experience? 18 Q. How long did that bother you or affect 18 A. No. 19 you? 19 Q. Okay. Were you hospitalized? 20 A. MY PaP-Pap? 20 A. No. 21 Q Yeah. 21 Q. Did you have serious injury? 22 A. I mean, it still affects me. I think about 22 A. No. 23 him. It's like, wow, he's gone. It's not like 23 Q. Did you have whiplash, back pain? 24 realistic, because I never — he didn't live in the same 24 A. No, nothing. 25 state. 25 Q Was anybody hurt on the other side? 37 (Pages 142 to 145) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. EFTA00723346 Page la 6 Page 148 1 A. No. 1 mother-in-law, my mother-in-law and I did not get along 2 Q. Okay. Fender-bender type thing? 2 at all. 3 A. The side of her car. 3 Q. Is that where you were living before? 4 Q. Okay. How fast was she going? How fast 4 A. Yeah. 5 was the car — 5 Q. What was the problem with the 6 A. I mean, she was going maybe 20, 30 miles 6 mother-in-law? 7 pulling into somewhere. And I tried to brake, and I was 7 A. She's crazy. No. She, she just thinks she's 8 on a dirt road and I skidded into her. 8 never wrong and would lie to my husband about me. And I 9 Q. Okay. And how fast were you going? 9 have her recorded telling me one story. And then I had 10 A. Probably like 40, 50. 10 an e-mail telling him a whole other story. This is how 11 Q. Okay. How old were you? 11 crazy this woman is. 12 A. I'm going to say around 18. 12 Q. Okay. Just to make sure Pm clear when 13 Q. I remember you said you got your license 13 you say crazy, we're not talking about 14 at around that time. 14 hallucinating -- 15 A. Yeah, so, like, 18, 19. Pm guessing. 15 A. Well, not like that — 16 Q. Within a year of two of getting your 16 Q. -- or just after her -- 17 license? 17 A. but I'm saying just like her son is a God 18 A- Yes. 18 and nobody is going to be good enough for him. 19 Q. Fair enough. Okay. Was the car damaged? 19 Q. Okay. 20 A. My car wasn't that bad, but her car was pretty 20 A. So, she's going to find any way to show him 21 damaged. It had to get her parts, her door. 21 that I'm not good enough. 22 Q. So she needed a new door? 22 Q. How long did you live with her? 23 A. Yeah. 23 A. A good four, five months. Not — well, maybe 24 Q. Do you remember what you were driving at 24 a little bit longer than that because I cane — 25 the time? 25 been here since February. Page 147 Page 149 A. No. I've had a lot of cars. 1 Q. So, February to -- 2 Q. Okay. Is that became they broke down 2 A. No, I'm sorry. I've been here since January. 3 or — 3 I started school in February. A. Well, my first car. 4 Q. Okay. January to about Octoberish? 5 Q. — or because your dad worked at a A. Well, first I lived with my mom for about a 6 dealership and had — 6 month or two. And then I moved out of her house because 7 A. It's also that, and it's also because my first 7 of my dog. And I went to my mother-in-law's house. And R car that I got broke down and had so many miles on it. 8 my mother-in-law sort of wanted me to stay there but, 9 I don't know if it was aNissan. I don't know. I'm not 9 you lalow, just to have her grand-daughter there with 10 sure. 10 her. 11 Q. Not a lot of cars because you're 11 Q. Okay. 12 particularly rough on them or had (inaudible) 12 A. And, 'mean, don't get me wrong, she helped 13 accidents - 13 out with my daughter a lot. You know. She watched her 14 A. No, actually I've never even had that many 14 all the time I was school, Monday through Thursday and 15 accidents. That was my only accident that I've ever 15 Saturday. But we got a long really well. And then I 16 had. 16 started seeing how she would make up lies about me. And 17 Q. Where are you currently living? 17 one minute she would be so nice to me and the next 18 A. I'm living with my dad. 18 minute she would just be vicious. 19 Q. Okay. How long have you been there? 19 Q. Okay. 20 A. I actually just moved in there probably about, 20 A. And one day I just couldn't take it any more, 21 maybe a little over a month ago. 21 and I was like, I've got to move out of here and my dad 22 Q. Okay. Is that working okay or is there 22 was like, move in. 23 tension or... 23 Q. And for the month you've spent with dad, 24 it's about a month? 24 25 rja A. No. We're getting along fine. My mother, I'll) sorry, my mother and Itdot My 25 A. Yeah. I mean, I, I'm looking -- you know, a 38 (Pages 146 to 149) MED PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY INC. ' EFTA00723347 Page 150 Page 152 1 babysitter, it's hard because I had her steady watching 1 that I wanted. And I wasn't — I actually never stolen 2 my daughter with no problem. You know, even for like, 2 before or did anything against the law. But l was in 3 you }mow, I had to do things like this, she would watch 3 the dressing room. I saw these jeans. They were $100 4 my daughter for me with no problem. That's the only 4 and they didn't have a sensor. And I was like, why not. 5 thing that I loved about her. But other than that, just 5 I put them in my purse and I got caught. 6 I can't deal with it. 6 Q. And the court date is pending? I 7 Q. Okay. My issues have homelessness? Have 7 A. No. I did my court date and the charges were 8 you ever been homeless or... 8 dropped, and I have to do a theft class. 9 A. Like I wasn't living on the streets, but I was 9 Q okay. 10 living with a friend of a friend when I was, when I got o A. But I've never had anything else except 11 kicked out when I was 18. 11 tickets for speeding. 12 Q. Got kicked out from where? 12 Q. Okay. How many tickets have you gotten? 13 A. My dad's. 13 A. Probably like three, four. 14 Q. Okay. Why did he kick you out? 14 Q. How fast were you going? 15 A. Because I was skipping school, and I didn't 15 A. Probably like ten to 15 miles over the speed 16 really go and listen to what he said. 16 limit 17 Q. Now, earlier we were talking about issues 17 Q. Did you ever get a reckless driving or 1.8 of mental abuse. And you said it would be hard 18 careless driving charge? 19 saying things. What would usually cause that? Was 19 A. No. 20 that kind of a litre a two-way street, or was that 20 Q. And how many tickets did you get? You 21 just him being erratic or — 21 said three to four? 22 A. No, it was because he was upset because I 22 A. Yeah. 23 wasn't doing what I should be doing as in going to 23 Q. Okay. Ever any trouble as a juvenile? 24 school every day. I was more with my friends. You 24 A. No. Well, what do you mean "in trouble," as 25 know, I wasn't doing what I was supposed to be doing at 25 in law? Page 151 Page 153 1 that point in my life. And he would just get frustrated 1 Q. Yes. 2 and, you know, sometimes people say things they don't 2 A. No. 3 mean when they're mad. 3 Q. AndvillatomWdbetheothertypeof 4 Q. And why were you doing those things? 4 trouble? 5 A. I just felt Lice I needed my friends. I felt 5 A. Bymyparimts. 6 }Bre I had nobody else. 6 Q. Okay. And trouble with your parents was 7 Q. Okay. When you do those things with your 7 dueto- 8 friends, would it be fun? 8 A. Going out and not listening. I would get 9 A. I mean, it wouldn't even be anything horrible. 9 grounded when I was older. 10 I would just be hanging out with them at their house, or 10 Q. Where would you go? 11 don't get me wrong, I did drink and I did do drugs here 11 A. Out with my friends, wherever, to the party 12 and there. But I never got litre, any drugs, I need to 12 or -- 13 drink that much. But I would occasionally do them at -- 13 Q. Okay. 14 it was mainly that I was skipping school, and I wasn't 14 A. Hang out. 15 focusing on what my goals should have been. 15 Q. And what type of parties were you at? 16 Q. But skipping school was more recreational. 16 A. Maybe at a friend's house, and we would just 17 It wasn't like skipping school like in eighth grade 17 have a group of friends over and we would be hanging 18 where people were threatening to kill you? 18 out. 19 A. No. It was more like I just wanted to do it. 19 Q. And again I just want to make sure my 20 Q. Okay. Ever have any trouble with the law? 20 definition and your definition is matching. Would 21 A. Actually, recently. 21 it be lace a, quote, unquote, house party where 22 Q. Okay. What happened? 22 people would bring in kegs and somebody's parents 23 A. I got In trouble for petty theft. 23 were out of town? 24 Q. Okay. What happened? 24 A. Yeah, yeah. 25 A. I went to Macy's and I saw a pair of jeans 25 Q. There would be about 50 people or so? 39 (Pages 150 to 153) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. EFTA00723348 Page 154 Page 156 1 A. Some of them, yeah. 1 Q. No. It's not a trick question. 2 Q. Okay. Not that this was an arrest, I saw 2 A. No, I really — 3 something about when you were, I think, younger 3 Q. Did you ever get into a fistfight with 4 being at a gas station and not being served or 4 anyone? 5 something. And the police were called, and I don't 5 A. Fight, I've been into a fight, yeah. 6 even know if you remember it at all. 6 Q. Okay. Have you ever used a weapon against A. I was at a gas station and the police were 7 anyone? 3 called? A. Not that I can remember. 9 Q. Yeah, like the person at the gas station 9 Q. Okay. You haven't shot, knifed, tried to 10 wouldn't sell you gas and you got annoyed with her. 10 run anybody over with a car? 11 And the police came and they said, well, she's got 11 A. No. 12 the right not to sell you gas, and you left. I 12 Q. Okay. So what — tell me about the fight. 13 mean, it didn't lead to an arrest or anything. I'm 13 A. It was actually with E. and actually my 14 just — it was kind of an odd thing. I was 14 husband now. But it was back in junior year and she 15 wondering if you could tell me — 15 slept with him. 16 A. This — 16 Q. Okay. 17 Q. — what happened there. 17 A. And I got pissed off and l fought her. 18 A. I totally forgot about that. Okay. This is 18 Q. Were the two of you dating at that 19 so stupid. But ray friend IM (phonetic) was dating 19 time or... 20 Okay? 20 A. We were like — it wasn't officially dating 21 21 but we were together and she knew that I, you know, 22 23 Q. at i A. station. baby's mom was the one working at a gas 22 23 started to like him again. So, I thought it was wrong fora best friend — 24 Q. Okay. 24 Q. Okay. 25 A. She didn't Ile me because I was friends with 25 A. -- when I asked her numerous times, do you Page 155 Page 157 1 2 I went to the gas station to get gas and she wouldn't serve me gas. So, I got upset and I was like, 1 2 s, like him, no. All right. Tell me the truth because I really do care for him. No, Jane Doe No. 5, I 3 are you kidding me. I have done nothing to you. And 3 would tell you. All right. 4 she said I was making threats to her, and all this 4 Q. Did either of you need medical attention 5 stuff. Called the cops. And I went back to the cops 5 afterwards? 6 and I wrote a police report about her also, because she. 6 A. No. I mean it was a couple of hits and that 7 I mean this was a — wow. 7 was it. 3 Q. Yeah, like I said, there was no criminal 8 Q. Did the friendship survive or... 9 action that came out of it. I was just wondering 9 A. We're still friends. 10 what the story was to that. 10 Q. Okay. 11 A. Yeah, that was, wow. That's weird. Oh, I 11. A. I mean, we were in high school, so... 12 can't even believe that. I totally forgot. But I mean, 12 Q. Okay. Any issues with cruelty to animals? 13 yeah, there was — she was the crazy one. I went to go 13 A. No, never. 14 get gas, and she called the cops on me because she 14 Q. Bed wetting? 15 wouldn't sell me gas because I was friends with her 15 A. I'm sorry? 16 baby's dad's new girlfriend. And the police even told 16 Q. Bed wetting? 17 me she was fricking crazy. That's hilarious. 17 A. No. 18 Q. When you were a kid growing up, what's the 18 Q. Fire setting? 19 most violent thing you've ever done? 19 A. What is it? 20 A. Violent thing I've ever done? 20 Q. Fire setting. 21 Q. Uh-huh. 21 A. No. 22 A. As in anything? 22 Q. No. 23 Q. Yeah, a kid, adult, violent. 23 A. Not that — I mean, putting things on lire -- 24 A. I don't know. Do you know something I don't 24 Q. Yeah. 25 know? 25 A. No. 40 (Pages 154 to 157) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. EFTA00723349 Page 158 Page 160 1 Q. Okay. Do you own any weapons? 1 A. No, no, no. !just wanted to get out of 2 A. No. 2 there. 3 Q. Are you member of any gangs? 3 Q. Well, it's about 1:00. So we could take a 4 A. No. 4 break now, go get lunch, come back, do the second 5 Q. Current, past. Okay. Have you been the 5 test and then kind of finish up, or I can keep going 6 victim of violent crime outside of, you know, 6 until the tape stops? 7 domestic relationship, I mean, any just random — 7 A. It's whatever you want to do. I mean, I 8 A. Like' omebody fought me or something? 8 don't -- I smoke, so I don't mind taking a cigarette 9 Q. Yeah, somebody robbed you, somebody hit 9 break. 10 you with a pipe and stole your purse? 10 Q. Why don't we go ahead and stop now then. 11 A. Somebody stole my car in Virginia. My car was 11 It's a good time to get lunch, and we can do the 12 stolen for a couple of months. 12 test and finish up. 13 Q. Okay. Was this like a catjac,king where 13 A. Okay. 14 you were in the car or were you parked and came 14 Q. Usually we've been doing 45-minute lunch 15 back? 15 breaks, but we'll check with the attorneys. 16 A. My husband actually took the car to the gas 16 A. Okay. I'm not going to go anywhere. I will 17 station. Went inside and came back out and the car was 17 just be outside. 18 gone. And they had it and the car seat, they threw that 18 Q. There is deli downstairs. They actually 19 away. They threw my stroller away. The car was, had to 19 have pretty good soups. 20 get fixed. It was crashed and we didn't have it for 20 A. Oh, is there. 21 like, I'm guessing, a month, two months, three months. 21 (Luncheon recess from 1:08 p.m. until 1:57 22 1don't remember but it was a long time. 22 p.m.) • * • • • 23 Q. Okay. And you've never been in jail or 23 24 prison or — 24 25 A. !went to jail for the theft. 25 Page 159 1 Q. How long were you in for? 2 A. I was booked at 9 as night, and I got out at 3 like 3:30 in the morning. 4 Q. Okay. 5 A. But it was a misdemeanor. 6 Q. Anything bad happen while you were in? 7 A. I wanted to get out. It was, the whole 8 experience was horrible. 9 Q. Okay. But while you were in holding or in 10 general population or whatever - 1]. A. I was in a holding cell. 12 Q. Nobody attacked you, was inappropriate 13 with you? 14 A. I mean, there was a whole bunch of crack heads 15 in there and I just wanted to get out of there, but 16 nobody did anything to true. 17 Q. Okay. Weren't maced, didn't need 18 restraints? 19 A. No. 20 Q. Weren't put in a calm-down chair or 21 whatever they call it? 22 A. No. No, that was an experience that I never 23 want to re-live again. 24 Q. You didn't attack any of the guards, 25 anything 41 (Pages 158 to 160 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. EFTA00723350