EFTA00723681

Page 1 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA CASE NO.: 08-CIV-80119-MARRA/JOHNSON JANE DOE NO. 2, Plaintiff, -vs- JEFFREY EPSTEIN, Defendant. Related cases: 08-80232, 08-08380, 08-80381, 08-80994, 08-80993, 08-80811, 08-80893, 09-80469, 09-80591, 09-80656, 09-80802, 09-81092 VIDEOTAPED COMPULSORY MEDICAL EVALUATION OF JANE DOE NO. 6 Monday, November 23,,2009 9:18 - 5:29 p.m. 250 Australian Avenue Suite 1500 West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Reported By: Cynthia Hopkins, RPR, FPR Notary Public, State of Florida Prose Court Reporting Services PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Becton ns (601461-976-2534) b5cb7 EFTA00723681 EFTA00723682 Pace .- 1 APPEARANCES: 1 right? 2 On behalf of the Plaintiff: 2 A. Uh-huh. , 3 JESSICA D. ARBOLR, ESQUIRE 3 Q. Okay. This is not an endurance MERMELSTEIN & HOROWITZ, P.A. 4 competition. And I know your lawyer has mentioned 4 18205 Biscayne Boulevard Suite 2218 5 this to you too, ifs going to be a long day, but at 5 Miami, Florida 33160 6 any tine if you need to take a break, smoke a Phone: 305.931.2200 7 cigarette, get some water, use the restroom, not a 6 E mail: Ahorowitz@sexabuseattomey.com 8 problem. 7 9 We usually break at around noon-ish, 10 one-ish to get some lunch and then well come back. 9 ALSO PRESENT: 10 11 We'll be doing some testing throughout the day too. 11 Dr. Ryan Hall, M.D. 12 We may break that up in between kind of the talking. 12 Sascha Quimby, Videographer 13 All right. Any questions, comments, concerns before Visual Evidence, Incorporated 14 we start? 13 15 A. (Witness shakes head.) 14 16 Q. No. Okay. In general, I will kind of 15 16 17 start with your background and go forward. 17 18 Sometimes I will ask for dates that may be hard to 18 19 remember the exact date. 19 20 A. Yeah. 20 21 Q. Feel free to ballpark. Just kind of let 21 22 me know, around, I think, roughly. If I need 22 23 23 anything more specific, we'll try and narrow it 24 24 down. 25 25 A. Okay. Page 3 Page 5 1 EXAMINATION 1 Q. So, for example I ask about how old your 2 2 parents are, I have been getting a lot of, well, I 3 THE VIDEOORAPHER: You're all set, Doctor. 3 think they're in their early 50s. That's good 4 DR. HALL: All right. Thank you. 4 enough. 5 BY DR. HALL: 5 A. Parents do not talk about their age very much 6 Q. Okay. And you're going to be filling this 6 and you forget after a while. • 7 stuff out yourself, so — 7 Q. After a while, yeah. This is being 8 I think they just started the camera, so 8 recorded as you know so I would ask that you speak 9 again I will introduce myself. My name is Dr. Hall. 9 10 I have been asked to see you in regards to a 10 A. Okay. 11 lawsuit. So this is what we call a forensic 11 Q. So the transcriptionist can hear you. 12 independent medical evaluation. 12 A. I am a little nervous so. 13 Anything you tell me may end up in my 13 Q. I tatderstand, and we'll just kind of take 14 report. And I think a copy goes to your lawyer, the 14 our time and go slow and see how things go. 15 lawyers who retained me which are representing 15 A. All right. 16 Mr. Epstein, the judge may or may not read it, I 16 Q. Before I start, your name again is? 17 don't know exactly how all that works But just so 17 A. Jane Doe No. 6. 18 you're aware whatever you tell me could end up in 18 Q. Doe. Okay, just making sure I am seeing 19 the report Usually when we see a doctor, there is 19 who I thought I was. When were you born? 20 the expectation of confidentiality. It doesn't 20 A. Vineland, New Jersey. 21 apply to this situation. 21 Q. Violent, New Jersey? 22 All right. Also, 1 am not going to be 22 A. V-i-n-el-a-n-d. 23 taking on treatment responsibilities for you. So, I 23 Q. Vineland, New Jersey. Okay. What is your 24 am not going to be treating you, making 24 date of birth? '25 recommendations, seeing you in the future. All 25 A. 9/3/90. I 2 (Pages 2 to 5) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC.. . Electronically signed by cynthls hopkIns (601.0614764934) blkb74313-claea-4bc1-a5eb46350b265754 EFTA00723683 Page 6 1 Q. Okay. All right. Were there any problems 1 that and we don't ask. 2 with your birth? Were you born early, born late, 2 Q. Was there ever any instances of domes!is 3 premature, did you need to stay in the hospital 3 violence between your mother and your father? 4 after you were born? 4 A. (Witness shakes head.) 5 A. I don't think so. I think I was jaundiced, 5 Q. And again to the best of your knowledge 6 but that's it. 6 was there ever any concern that one of them may have 7 Q. No time in the what we would call the 7 been having an affair or being inappropriate? 8 pediatric intensive care unit — 8 A. No. When they split up, they, you know, I 9 A. No. 9 guess, curiosity, they went their separate ways and you 10 Q. — or neonatal? Born in a hospital? 10 'mow but — 11 A. Yes. 11 Q. But while they were living together — 12 Q. Okay. Did you meet your normal kind of 12 A. Yes. 13 developmental milestones such as like walking and 13 Q. — and once they've been back together, 14 talking and — 14 there's been no issues of that? 15 A. (Witness nods head.) 15 A. No. 16 Q. Any significant childhood illnesses? 16 Q. Okay. 17 A. No. 17 A. During their separation is when they -- 18 Q. Can you tell me about your parents? 18 Q. May have dated others? 19 A. My dad is from Cuba. My mom was born here, 19 A. Yes. 20 but was raised in Puerto Rico. 20 Q. Okay. And you think the separation was. 21 Q. Okay. 21 has only been for two or three months? 22 A. She moved to New Jersey when she was an early 22 A. I'm not sure — 23 teen. My dad moved — came when he was like ten, came 23 Q. That's the ballpark area. 24 to New Jersey, and my parents met when they were like 24 A. I'm not really sure because their divorce 25 20. 25 like, you know, strung out for a long time. Page 7 Page 1 Q. Okay. 1 Q. Okay. 2 A. I want to say around there. 2 A. Like a year or something but — 3 Q. What ethnic background do you consider 3 Q. Okay. 4 yourself? 4 A. They were in and out of each other's lives I 5 A. Pm Puerto Rican and Cuban. 5 guess. 6 Q. Okay. 6 Q. Okay. Were you living with therm at the 7 A So Spanish, Hispanic 1 guess. 7 time? . 8 Q. Okay. Did your parents marry? 8 A. Yeah. I was living with my mom and I would go 9 A. Yeah. 9 see my dad on weekends. 10 Q. Okay. How long have they been married, or 10 Q. Okay. How old were you when this 11 any divorces or it's hard to tell nowadays. 11 happened? 12 A. Well, they got divorced in '96 or in '97 12 A. Like six, seven, around that area. 13 something. But they are still together. They are going 13 Q. Was this hard on you or... 14 on 25 years I think. 14 A. I still sec both my parents. It was hard on 15 Q. Okay. 15 my dad, but that's why they got back together. He 16 A. Because my brother is 23, and they waited a 16 wanted to see us more. 17 couple of years to have a child so — 17 Q. How old is mom? 18 Q. Okay. And how old are you? 18 A. My mom is 45. 19 A. I'm 19. 19 Q. Okay. And how old is dad? 20 Q. Nineteen. Okay. So, they are divorced 20 A. My dad's 45 and he will be 46 in January. 21 but still living in the same house? 21 Q. Mom in good physical health? 22 A. Yes. They, they only separated for a couple 22 A. (Witness nods head.) 23 of months but moved back in together after the divorce. 23 Q. Any history or any problems of psychiatric 24 Q. Do you know why they separated? 24 issues or see a therapist, counselor? 05======ik ti ey don't usuallyvara tell kids stuff Mee 25 A. No, I don't think so. 3 (Pages 6 to 9) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Ebotronically signed by cynthis bobbins (6014614764934) b5cb743b-doe6.4bc1-a5eb-16350b255754 EFTA00723684 Page 10 Page 12 1 Q. What's mom do for a living? 1 Q. You mentioned a brother, how many siblings 2 A. My mom was an insurance agent, but since 2 do you have? 3 everything, you know, slowed down, she lost her job. 3 A. I have one brother. He's 23. 4 Q. Sorry to hear that. 4 Q. Okay. All right. And what's he up to? 5 A. Since the economy has slowed down and stuff, 5 A. Lost I guess you could say. He is still 6 she lost her job, you know. 6 living at my mom's house so"— 7 Q. Right Sony. No. I said I am sorry to 7 Q. Okay. hear she lost her job. 8 A. You know, brothers and sisters don't really 9 A. Oh, I thought you couldn't hear me, sorry. 9 get along so we don't really talk. He does his own 10 Q. That's all right. 10 thing and — 11 A. Yeah. 11 Q. How is his physical health right now? 12 Q. Okay. How is she doing with being 12 A. He's fine. Just doesn't want to go to school 13 unemployed? 13 or is finding himself. 14 A. She's started filling out job applications and 14 Q. And any psychiatric problems? 15 stuff, but unemployment gave her an extension so she's 15 A. No. 16 trying. 16 Q. The extended family aunts, uncles. 17 Q. Okay. So, she's looking for work? 17 cousins, things like that, grandparents, any with 18 A. Yeah. 18 any significant medical history? 19 Q. What's dad do? 19 A. What do you mean as medical history as in like 20 A. My dad is a construction worker. He works a 20 mental history — 21 loader. 21 Q. Usually I ask the mental separate but 22 Q. Okay. Is that stable employment or has he 22 cancers? 23 also been affected by the downturn? 23 A. Okay. 24 A. Yeah. He's on and off. They, the most recent 24 Q. Heart failure? 25 work he had to leave to North Carolina. 25 A. Yeah. My, my grandma, my dad's mom she died Page 11 Page 13 Q. Okay. 1 of breast cancer. So the girls in my family have on my A. And there is no work down here but since he 2 dad's side a risk of getting breast cancer. My came back, he's been back for like two weeks now and he 3 grandfather or my, my mom's dad, he had diabetes and hasn't had no work. 4 yeah, he died last year. No, actually this might have 5 Q. Okay. Is he in good health? 5 been early this year. But he was in a nursing home for A. I don't know. My dad is like, the last time 6 a while. They knew, you know that, you know, he had a 7 he's been to the doctor was like the 80's. You know, he 7 problem, that it wasn't, it was getting to be his end. 8 doesn't believe in somebody sicking him with a needle or 8 But my grandma had high blood pressure and she died from 9 something, so he doesn't go to doctors. 9 a heart attack. 10 Q. Okay. 10 Q. Is that morn's dad with the breast cancer? 11 A. But he won't get sick a lot or, youlasow, I 11 A. My mom's -- 12 have -- so I would say looking at him, you know. 12 Q. Mom's mother? 13 Q. So, you're not aware of any health 13 A. No. My, my dad's mom has had breast cancer. 14 problems - 14 Q. Okay. 15 A. Yeah, no. 15 A. And then my mom's parents are deceased. 16 Q. -- like high blood pressure — 16 Q. Okay. 17 A. No, no? 17 A. And that's her dad had diabetes and my, her 18 Q. or diabetes or cancer — 18 room had high blood pressure. 19 A. Yeah, no. 19 Q. Okay. And passed away from a heart 20 Q. or anything like that? Has he had any 20 attack? 21 history of any psychiatric problems? 21 A. Yes. 22 A. No. 22 Q. Okay. 23 Q. And never saw a therapist, counselor, or 23 A. And my uncle has now - he is still living. 24 been on medicines? 24 He has sorosis of the liver, but it's from a bad blood 25 A. (Witness shakes head.) 25 transfusion in the early Ws or something. -.- 4 (Pages 10 to 13) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by cynthia hopkIns (601-0514064934) bleb74 ae6-4bc t-a5ob 16350b255Y54 EFTA00723685 Page 14 Page 16 3. Q. Okay. And again, if you know, that's 1 you know. I know that because my dad comes over a lot. 2 tune, if you don't know that's okay too. I am 2 But I mean, he has, he does drink every other day, that 3 guessing Hepatitis C though? 3 you know, not every day but, you blow, more than usual. 4 A. Yeah. 4 Q. Okay. And how much would he drink at a 5 Q. Okay. And then the next question, anybody 5 time? 6 in the family have any history of any mental health 6 A. Maybe like a six pack. 7 problems? 7 Q. And what does the six pack do to him? 8 A. I don't think so. My cousin tried to, I 8 A. He's a happy drunk. He don't even, you 9 guess, eat a bottle of aspirin or something one time 9 know -- he might fall asleep on my couch or something, 10 but — 10 but other than that he don't argue. He don't fight. He 11 Q. Okay. 11 usually keeps to himself outside. You /mow, he likes to 12 A. — you know, she's just a distant cousin 12 play with my dog and be outside by the fire and stuff 13 but — 13 so, he -- 14 Q. And just to make sure I understand this, 14 Q. What type of dog do you have? 15 she wasn't like three at the time and just got into 15 A. I have a blue-nose pit. 16 it? 16 Q. I am not familiar with that one, a 17 A. No. 17 blue-nose what? 18 Q. This was — 18 A. A blue-nose pit-bull. 19 A. She was 19, I think. 19 Q. Okay. 20 Q. Okay. 20 A. She's a, her coat is -- well, her mother's 21 A. About, that's all because my aunt and uncles 21 coat is gray with kind of like, you could say a blue 22 are very Christian and, you know, so... 22 tint to it. So, she's black with a blue tint to her. 23 Q. Okay. 23 Q. How are pit-bulls as a pet? I mean you 24 A. I don't think so. My mom gets headaches but 24 hear about them in the news and stuff. 25 she's get a prescription from that. She works at a 25 A. They are good dogs, if you train them -- I Page 15 Page 17 1 doctor's office, but I don't really ask questions like 1 mean, they arc protective, they — you know, to bark and 2 that, so I don't know what that is from. 2 she's never bitten anyone, you know. I've had — she's 3 Q. Fair enough. Okay. So, there was one 3 seven months old now. I've had her since she was 1 distant cousin who may have tried suicide? 4 almost, you know, two months old or whatever and she's A. Yeah. 5 never bit nobody. 6 Q. Any history of substance use or alcohol 6 I have a bad cat problem. This cat keeps 7 problems in the family? 7 coming in my garden and stuff. And my cat, or my 8 A. My dad drinks. 8 dog doesn't chase her or nothing. She just looks at 9 Q. Okay. 9 her and tries to smell her, but she's a good dog. 10 A. My mom not too much, like you know, occasional 10 My son doesn't like animals whatsoever. 11 beer on the weekend or something, you know. 11 Q. Okay. 12 Q. Okay. 12 A. So, you know, so -- but she's been around 13 A. When my parents were younger, they 13 other kids, you know, but my son, he won't go near no 14 experimented, you would say. 14 kinds of animals. I don't know why, but he's scared of 15 Q. Okay. 15 them. 16 A. When my mom got pregnant with my brother she 16 Q. And how old is your son? 17 stopped completely experimenting or anything. My dad, a 17 A. He's two. Well, he will be two in March so 18 couple years back might have smoked some weed. 18 Re 20 months. 19 Q. Okay. 19 Q. Twenty months. And how's he doing? 20 A. But he recently had been to get, you know, a 20 A. He's good. 21 job since it's so hard, they were Eking people. They 21 Q. And any significant health problems with 22 have been really keeping up on the drug testing stuff. 22 him or complications or... 23 So as far as I know he's not doing nothing. But I mean, 23 A. No. 24 you know, a little, you know, he's not like hard core 24 Q. And he is walking and talking and doing 25 like going to get cocaine off the street or something, 25 all the things -- iNtean.124.4Astatiantfi-Sear.4.4.41..t, 1 5 (Pages 14 to 17) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Ebtatronleally signed by eyr4his hopkins (8014514764034) blkb743b. 1 al36-41 1-a5e1PIA.157 EFTA00723686 Page 1 Page 20 1 A. Yeah. 1 are religious, were you raised going to church? 2 Q. that a two year old should be doing? 2 A. No. They tried. My, my dad is a Jehovah 3 A. Yeah. 3 .Witness. 4 Q. I think you kind of already answered this 4 Q. okay. 5 but I will just ask it again to make sure it's S A. And my mom's side was Christian or Catholic. 6 clear. AS far as you know, no exposure to anything 6 So, yeah, they clash with how they were going to raise 7 while you're MOM was pregnant with you? 7 is I guess, so we didn't go to church. 8 A. No. 8 Q. Okay. 9 Q. Okay. And dad's never struck you — 9 A. My dad doesn't — before he was drinking, he, 10 A. No. 10 you know, was going to church a little bit but it faded. 11 Q. Mom had problems when he was drinking 11 Q. Do you go to church now or... 12 where he lost his job? 12 A. No. 13 A. No, no. 13 Q. Okay. How were you disciplined as a child 14 Q. DU1's, anything like that? 14 growing up? 15 A. No. 15 A. I was grounded. 16 Q. How long has he been doing about a six 16 Q. Okay. 17 pack every other day? 17 A. TV privileges taken, in my room with nothing. 18 A. Man, ifs been a while. Maybe since I was 18 Q. And what would you get grounded for? What 19 like 16. 19 type of things? 20 Q. Sixteen? 20 A. Out past my curfew. They said be in before 21 A. Fifteen. You know, my mom and my parents 21 the streetlights came on. My mom would tell me not to 22 don't even sleep in the same bed together no more. i 22 use my bike or something, and I would take it. Tell her 23 guess they just — they still talk. They don't, you 23 I wanted to go somewhere when she told me no, and I 24 know, fight, but I guess they don't want to be next — 24 would tell her yes, and you know kids stuff. 25 he passes out and he sweats beer and, you know, she just 25 Q. How was your family dynamic growing up? I Page 19 Page 21 1 doesn't want him in her bed I guess. So, they dealt 1 mean good family, bad family, did you get along with 2 sleep in the same bed. But i guess he drinks, so he 2 your parents? 3 don't have to be around her. I mean 25 years of 3 A. Yeah, I guess. My, me and my mom got along. 4 marriage how, you know. They're not even married but -- 4 When I was a little, little kid, I was attached to my 5 25 years together, I guess get sick of a person after a 5 dad. i was more It a tomboy. But as i started 6 while. 6 becoming a teenager, I was more, you know, my mom, 7 Q. It's -- they're doing better than the 7 shopping and cooking and stuff. I 8 national average. Q. And i was just noticing your jacket. Do 9 A. They're trying. 9 you like hunting and things like that or... 10 Q. How was your childhood growing up? 10 A. Ifs my dad's. 11 A. It was all right. 11 Q. Okay. I apologize. I am a little bit of 12 Q. What did you lilce to do as a child? 12 a slow writer, so I sometimes stop. 13 A. I used to ride my bike a lot. I don't know, 13 A. It's all right. 14 play games with kids. I lived in this neighborhood. 14. Q. Okay. And I know we're here due to 15 There is a park in the neighborhood. And next door I 15 Epstein, so I am aware °tannic bit of what 16 used to go there a lot and ride my bike and skate and 16 happened there. But outside of that incident, have 17 stuff. I used to do a lot of outdoor stuff. 17 you ever been physically, sexually, or emotionally 18 Q. Skate as in roller skates or skateboard? 18 abused? 19 A. No. I used to have the four wheel skates, the 19 A. No. 20 old ones. 20 Q. Okay. How was school for you? 21 Q. Not the inline? 21 A. All right. When I got In middle school I 22 A. No, no. 22 started to get in fights and back talking teachers and, 23 Q. Did you have a lot of friends growing up? 23 yeah, dress node, and I guess you know teenage stuff, 24 A. Yeah. 24 rebelling. 25 Q. I know you mentioned your aunts and uncles 25 Q. How old were you when you started middle 6 (Pages 18 to 21) PROSE COURT REPORTING. AGENCY, INC. c ron ca y worm y cyn ta °plans (601-051.976.2934) bSeb743b-dao6-4bc1-aSeb-16350b255764 EFTA00723687 Page Gr Page 24 1 school? 1 little kid stuff. 2 A. Twelve or 13, around there, because I didn't 2 Q. I mean, what were they saying? 3 start school until I was Lice six. 3 A. I don't really remember. I mean, lace, oh, 4 Q. Okay. 4 she liked her boyfriend or you like him or I like him, 5 A. Something like that. I was a late. 5 or. 6 Q. Okay. So, were, you were kind ofone of 6 Q. Okay. 7 the oldest kids in the class usually? 7 A. I mean like. 8 A. Yeah. 8 Q. So, it would be over guys usually? 9 Q. Were you in any special education classes? 9 A. Yeah. Lilco, you know, girl stuff. 10 A. My fourth and fifth grade year, speech. I 10 Q. Yeah. I may not be aware of what girl 11 have a bad problem with my S's. 11 stuffis, so I am not trying to be funny here. So 12 Q. Okay. 12 again, if -- and again different people have 13 A. I still do. 13 different things they argue with and stuff, so but 14 Q. Was this a speech therapy type thing? 14 what your experience is is what I am interested in. 15 A. Yeah. And I did it in sixth grade but... 15 Did you ever need to go to a hospital due 16 Q. Were you ever diagnosed with, I hate the 16 to a fight you were in? 17 word disorder, but a learning disorder? 17 A. No. 18 A. No. 18 Q. Did anybody you fought with ever need to 19 Q. A like dyslexia or 19 go to a hospital or got medical attention? 20 A. No. 20 A. I don't know. They might have been bleeding. 21 Q. — not being able to add or anything like 21 I don't know if they - 22 that? 22 Q. Okay. 23 A. No, no. 23 A. -- got medical attention, because once I was 24 Q. And you could learn to read okay? 24 pulled off of them or we broke each other up, I went one 25 A. Yeah. I mean, I would forget about, you know, 25 way and the other person went to another office, you Page 23 Page 25 1 like I could read a page and like not remember, you 1 know. 2 know, what I just read sometimes and have to go back and 2 Q. Okay. 3 reread it, so... 3 A. So — 4 Q. Okay. 4 Q. And do you remember how old you were when 5 A. Maybe I might have, but I, you know, I never 5 that fight occurred? 6 found it -- 6 A. I had a lot of fights. My first year in sixth 7 Q. Okay. 7 grade, more fights then because I was in sixth grade a A. It was a problem. 8 twice so — 9 Q. And when you would write, you'd never 9 Q. Okay. Why did you repeat sixth grade? 10 reversed letters or -- 10 A. The fighting. And I was always in the — they 11 A. No, definitely not. 11 had a, it was a grade office, so 1 was in the sixth 12 Q. Were you ever suspend or expelled from 12 grade office and not in class where I was supposed to 13 school? 13 be. So, I would get zero's or, you know, stuff like 14 A. Yeah, I was suspended -- 14 that so I failed. 15 Q. What for? 15 Q. And the time you had to be pulled off 16 A. a lot. Fighting. 16 someone, was that your first time in sixth grade or 17 Q. Okay. 17 your second time in sixth grade? 18 A. I wouldn't go to detention and detention leads 18 A. It was my first time. 19 to Saturday, Saturday school. Saturday school, if you 19 Q. Did you ever use a weapon or take a weapon 20 don't go, it's three days in-school suspension. If you 20 to school? 21 get thrown out of there, there is suspension. So, yeah, 21 A. Unit-tmh. 22 I had a lot of those. 22 Q. Did you ever get knocked out in any of 23 Q. Okay. Who would you fight? 23 these fights? 24 A. Random, like, girls that I had problems with. 24 A. Yeah. I have gotten, my, I got my own couple 25 I don't know. I mean, he said, she said, you know, 25 of times, you know. A handful of times. I could say , CIFW1•1•1“.6 , ...Vidi}e40.4.0•••2 7 (Pages 22 to 25) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by cynthle hopkIns (801481478.2934) bee0743trdae6-4bel-a5ob46350b 6575 EFTA00723688 Page 26 Page 1 the same amount that, you know, half of than fights I 1 2 didn't win, you know. 2 A. There was, a lot of kids would go to either 3. Q. Okay. So, I mean these sound like serious 3 Wendy's because it's right down the block or between 4 fights. This wasn't just — 4 pavilions. They are never inside the school, you know, 5 A. I mean — 5 like, by lockers or where teachers could get, you 6 Q. slapping a little bit and pushing into 6 know — 7 a locker? Q. Involved? 8 A. I mean, no. I mean, like I might have been in 8 A. Yeah. like three, throe fights that there was actually like 9 Q. Okay. I mean, was this like how they 10 bleeding. 10 showed in the movies where somebody would pass you a 11 Q. Okay. 11 note and say be at Wendy's at 3:30 or else or... 12 A. But I mean like, one of them the girl came up 12 A. No. They would tell somebody else and 13 to me and like was in my face and pushed me. And I was 13 somebody else would, you know — 14 lice, you know. For some reason a lot of girls, like 14 Q. Set up the time? 15 when I was going to school, like to wear rings and 15 A. Yeah. 16 jewelry and like really, you know, now that I think 16 Q. So, you would go knowing that a fight was 17 about it, you know, kids are really brutal but, you 17 going to happen? 18 know. I was one of those, you know, kids that — I 18 A. Yeah. 19 would have -- I mean, it's only a couple of times but... 19 Q. Okay. And did you ever initiate one of 20 Q. Okay. 20 these like meetings or — 21 A. I guess I didn't want to be the one that 21 A. I don't really think so. I don't know. I 22 didn't, you know, have rings on her fingers that, you 22 mean, most of the fights that I started wore outside the 23 know, had my face, you know, all messed up because I 23 school because my mom would always pick me up at Wendy's 24 have had those times that, you know — 24 25 Q. Where people would hit you and they 25 Q. Yeah. Did you ever tell any teachers Page 27 Page 29 1 would -- 1 about this? 2 A. Yeah. 2 A. Teachers started getting smart to it because 3 Q. — have ring and you would get cut? 3 they got their own little golf cart and started riding 4 A. Yeah. I have a couple knots or scars on my 4 the sidewalk, or there was some, some woods with the 5 forehead from them. 5 trail next to the school and they used to go in there 6 Q. Okay. 6 and by to beat the kids to Wendy's before, you know, 7 A. And then like down here and stuff, you know. 7 the rest of, before the whole group got there and, you 8 I have my own scars from, you know, and I guess you 8 know, a fight broke out. 9 could say I learned from whatever fight that I had 9 Q. Okay. But you never, like, told the 10 previous to that and... 10 teacher or security officer anything that was going 11 Q. Okay. And you -- when I say ;mocked out, 11 on or that you were worried there was going to be a 12 I moan like down on the ground cold, not moving. 12 fight or anything like that? 13 don't remember what happened, unconscious. 13 A. I wasn't the only person that, you know, was 14 A. No, l mean — 14 starting these fights, these fights that were in the 15 Q. Is that what you mean by knocked out or 15 woods. 16 what, what's your? 16 Q. Okay. Sounds Ince it was a rough middle 17 A. — like I was, there is times that I was on. 17 school? 18 the floor and somebody was on top of me just punching me 18 A. Yeah. I mean it's not as bad as it is now. 19 in my face, or you know, it was the other way around or 19 There's kids that bring guns to school and stuff but -- 20 you know. I mean, I have never passed out during a 20 Q. Okay. Were you ever fearful for your life 21 fight or had somebody else passed out during a fight. I 21 while you lived there? 22 got knocked down and was like get in my face almost into 22 A. No. 23 the concrete, you know, kind of... 23 Q. No one ever made like death threats 24 Q. Okay. Would these fights occur like in 24 against you or anything like that? 25 the hallways or would this be after-school stuff 25 A. No. We would fight but not like kids now like 8 Pa es 26 to 29 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by cynthla hopkIns (601461.976.2934) b5tb743b-dac6-4bc1-a5o 6350b25 7 EFTA00723689 Page 30 Page 32 1 when they shoot-up the cam or somebody's house, because 1 skipping and not going to school and stuff. So, 2 like a girl that they like, little kid stuff. It's not, 2 they had me go to this, it's Excel or something. 3 it wasn't like that growing up. 3 It's an alternative school on South Shore. I don't 4 Q. Did you have any problems with truancy or 4 remember what it was called, but ifs like a 5 just not going to school? 5 Roosevelt Full Service that they have down here. 6 A. I had, one time they picked me up, but it was 6 Q. I'm not familiar with Roosevelt Full 7 bogus. It wasn't even like the real truancy because 7 Service. .8 they kicked me out of school. They told me to leave, 8 A. They, they take dropouts and like, you know, '9 that I was disruptive. 9 disruptive kids that are on Tamarind and I think like 10 Q. Okay. 10 6th or 2nd or something. 11 A. Yeah. 11 Q. And what was the name of that school 12 Q. How were you disruptive? 12 again? 13 A. Talking, you know, passing notes. I mean, 13 A. Roosevelt Full Service. 14 girl stuff. 14 Q. Okay. 15 Q. Okay. !mean — 15 A. And I don't, I don't even think 1 went one 16 A. That couldn't waft. 16 day. The school was in a bad, bad neighborhood. They 17 Q. Okay. If it was getting to the point 17 were hike, like I was going through the airport, you 18 where you were getting kicked out, that may go 18 know, metal detector my legs, make me take off my shoes. 19 beyond normal kind of girl stuff. So that's why Pm 19 I could, I could only bring a folder. And I can't,I 20 asking. 20 have to bring a certain kind of pencil, you know, 21 A. You know, I didn't stop and say, you know, 21 because they thought people were going to stab each 22 they take the note away, obviously, I wanted to say what 22 other with them. So, yeah, definitely did not go to 23 I just said, so I would write it back and do it again or 23 that school, no. So, I was around 16 or 15 around 24 just keep talking while they are trying to teach and -- 24 there, and I just stopped going to school. 25 Q. Okay. 25 Q. So, just to make sure I got this straight Page 31 Paae 33 1 A. Just not -- 1 you went to, was it Oakville? 2 Q. And I apologize, I may have asked this 2 A. No. I went to three different schools, 3 already, but did you ever get into a fight with a 3 Okeeheelee. teacher or authority figure? 4 Q. How do you spell that? A. No. I mean, they, they snatched my, like, my 5 A. O-k-e-e-h-e-e-1-e-e. a pictures or my books or like have notebooks or stuff, 6 g Okeeheelee. Okay. And you did that for 7 they would take it from my desk. But I have never 7 your sixth grade year? a physically touched them to get it back or like I tell 8 A. Yeah. My first sixth grade year. 9 them to give it back to me, but never works that way. 9 Q. And that was a rough school where you got 10 Q. Okay. So, you may gotten into verbal 10 into a lot of fights? 11 arguments with the teachers •- 11 A. Uh-huh, yes. 12 A. Yeah. 12 Q. And then your parents kind of changed 13 Q. -- but never struck them? 13 their address and moved a bit and then you went to 14 A. No, no. 14 Jefferson Davis? 15 Q. Okay. How far did you go in school? 15 A. Yeah. 16 A- Eighth grade. I did a year in Okeeheelee 16 Q. And you did sixth and seventh there? 17 Middle. That's a school on Pinehurst and Forest Hill. 17 A. Yeah, and I — 18 It's by my house. And that's the, when I got into all 18 Q. And you had problems going to school? 19 the fights at, so my parents switched me to Jefferson 19 A. Yeah. L 20 Davis which is on Forest Hill and Kirk which is farther 20 Q. Attending classes. 21 from my house. They had to change addresses to, for me 21 A. In the first nine weeks I was, you know, goi 22 to go to that school and stuff. So, I went there for my 22 to school, or I was doing good. I was getting A's, 23 second year of sixth grade and seventh grade. 23 and es, whatever. But I started meeting people becaus 24 And then in the middle of seventh grade 24 this school, when 1switched to that school, 1 didn' 25 they sent me to an alternative school because I was 25 know nobody because that wasn't my neighborhoo 9 (Pages 30 to 33) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by cynthia hopkIna (101-061471,2934) becb74315-clae6-4bc1-55.5b 6 5 b 5 5 EFTA00723690 Page 34 Page 36 1 wasn't, you know, where I lived. !just, you know, and 1 Q. Didn't do eighth grade there? 2 I started meeting new people and then that's where I 2 A. No. I was, I started eighth, I was supposed 3 learned how to skip school. 3 to start eighth grade in Roosevelt but... 4 Q. Okay. 4 Q. Okay. But you never went to Roosevelt? 5 A. And once I started skipping school, it was 5 A. No. I never -- I might have, like, signed in 6 like, why go if I can leave, you know. 6 fora day maybe but that's it. 7 Q. And were you getting into any fights at 7 Q. Okay. So, the last grade you completed 8 Jefferson Davis? 8 was — 9 A. No. I don't think so. I don't, I might have 9 A. Seventh. 10 got like, you know, like three or four referrals there. 10 Q. the seventh grade. Okay. All right. 11 But I mean like compared to where I ns before, I would 11 Have you tried to go back and get a G.E.D. or 12 have got like that in like a week, you know, like a 12 anything like that? 13 couple times, I didn't, you know. 13 A. Yeah. I went and took the equivalency test 14 Q. Okay. 14 My reading and math are at a ninth grade level, but my 15 A. But I was never there. That's the point. You 15 language is at a third grade level like my grarrunar 16 know, like they would see me in the morning but not see 16 and — 17 me in class. 17 Q Okay. Just to make sure I understand, so 18 Q. Gotcha. And who were you hanging out with 18 you didn't pass the equivalency test when you took 19 at Jefferson Davis? 19 it? 20 A. A lot of people. A girl Nicole. 20 A. No. I wasn't at the grade level that - 21 Q. Did you know Nicole's last name? 21 Q. At the grade level that you needed to be? 22 A. Danielle. No. I don't. I was in sixth, 22 A. Yeah, I was supposed to be in. I needed to 23 seventh grade. 23 take, do a lot of extra work in the grammar part, like 24 Q. Okay. Do you know Danielle's last name? 24 punctuation and stuff, and I've never really finished. 25 A. No. 25 Q. Okay. Have you tried to go to any, like, Page 35 Page 37 1 Q. Okay. So, Nicole, Danielle 1 trade schools or anything like that, like 2 A. That wasn't even, like they weren't even in my 2 cosmetology or -- 3 grade because like I said, I failed and then I was older 3 A. I was looking at culinary school, but I need 4 than I was supposed to. So all the kids that I was 4 a, they want a GED or a high school diploma. And the 5 friends with, weren't in my class. 5 grants are kind of it's — you know. They're kind of 6 Q. So, by this time you were about two years 6 expensive. 7 older — 7 Q. Yeah. Okay. What type of jobs have you 8 A. Yeah. 8 had? 9 Q. -- than you were supposed to be. 9 A. I worked with my mom when I was pregnant with 10 A. So, I wasn't, you know, in the -- I wasn't 10 my son. 11 hanging out with those kind, those kids in my class. 11 A. Okay. Where was that at? 12 Q. Okay. So, Nicole, Danielle, anyone else 12 A. She works at -- she used to work at an 13 you hung out with? 13 insurance agency. 14 A. Jilissa. 14 Q. Okay. Which one? 15 Q. How do you spell that one? 15 A. It's called A-Affonlable Auto Insurance. 16 A. J-i-l-s-s-a. There might be an I after the L. 16 Q. Okay. 17 Q. J-i-l-i-s-s-a? 17 A. They're an agency. They are not a — they 18 A. Yeah. 18 sell policies, you know, they are not like Progressive 19 Q. Okay. 19 20 A. I think that's how — she had a brother named 20 Q. So, they are not GEICO but they would sell 21 Walter. Those were, you know, like -- those were like 21 a GEICO policy? 22 the main girls you could say but... 22 A. Yeah. 23 Q. So, were you at Jefferson Davis for sixth 23 Q. Okay. How long did you work there for? 24 and seventh grade? 24 A. Well, my pregnancy until so, so I left 25 A. Yeah. 25 February for — so February of '08 is when I left. And .10 10 (Pages 34 to 37) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by ey opkIns (801.051-978.2934) bscbusts-dase-4bct Asseb-teasotessis4 EFTA00723691 Page 38 Page 40 1 I got pregnant, but I was in jail September, October, 1 things to different people. So somebody might 2 October to February. 2 say — 3 Q. Did you like working there? 3 A. That's why — 4 A. Yeah. 4 Q. - well the first guy I kissed I was with 5 Q. Okay. And anywhere else you worked? 5 for only like three weeks, but it was the first time 6 A. I trained for a week at Little Caesar's Pizza 6 and so it was significant to me. Other people would 7 but they didn't, I guess didntt have a job forme. They 7 say, no, ifs gotta he six months or longer. 8 hired somebody else. I was too short to work the 8 A. That's why I asked. 9 register is what they told me. I had to wait for an 9 Q. Yeah. So, whatever you feel is 10 opening on the line to make pizza. So, they told me to 10 significant or was an important part for you. 11 keep calling. 11 A. No, the first time was not. It was awkward 12 Q. Okay. 12 and weird and — 13 A. And I stopped calling. 13 Q. Okay. So, who were your significant 14 Q. All right. are you on disability or 14 relationships? 15 welfare or anything like that? 15 A. My husband, my boyfriend now or fiancee, 16 A. Unh-tath. 16 Aaron. 17 Q. With your son were you a part of a WIC 17 Q. So, what's Aaron's last name? 18 program or... 18 A. K-e-t-e-1-a-a-r. 19 A. When he was first born but not anymore. 19 Q. Okay. What age did you meet Aaron at? 20 Q. Okay. And what were you doing when you 20 A. I was 16 going on l7. 21 were working at the insurance agency? 21 Q. Okay. Were you still in school at this 22 A. Filing and copying and sending out checks or 22 time or had you — 23 whatever. I didn't answer the phone or write any 23 A. No. 24 policies or nothing. I was on house arrest so they were 24 Q. Okay. Where did the two of you meet? 25 just giving me, you know, apiece out, and let me make 25 A. Whore my work, my morn works, there's a Page 3 Page 41 1 some money so I can help take care of my son. 1 neighborhood next door. And since I went to Jefferson 2 Q. Okay. How did you get along with the 2 Davis it was close to that. And a lot of the kids in 3 other people at the office? 3 those, in that neighborhood were kids that I went to 4 A. Ifs only my mom and her boss, the guy that 4 school with. So, I've seen, I'd seen him one time, you 5 owns the place, so I have known him since I was like six 5 know, Ithe, his name is Macho, I don't even know, lace, 6 or seven. So, he is great. He is, he is very well — 6 his redraw, I don't even know why they call him that. 7 be loves my son very much. He's great. 7 But I seen him one time and Ike we were talking and 8 Q. Okay. 8 whatever, and he was with Aaron. And me and Aaron 9 A. He is really good. 9 started talking and, you know, that's how I started. 10 Q. That's good to hear. Have you ever been 10 Q. Okay. How old was Aaron when you first 11 in the military? 11 started dating him? 12 A. (Witness shakes head.) 12 A. Aaron was 18, 19. I think he was 19. 13 Q. Fs going to take some time and talk to 13 Q. So, he was two to three years older? 14 you about dating and things like that. When did you 14 A. Huh? Yeah. 15 start dating? 15 Q. Was he in school at the time? 16 A. Like 13. 16 A. No. 17 Q. Okay. How many significant relationships 17 Q. Was he working at the time? 18 have you had? 18 A. Yeah. 19 A. Two. 19 Q. What does he do for a living? 20 Q. Okay. 20 A. He works construction. He's, works on a grade 21 22 A. Like you mean relationships that actually like were something? 21. 22 crew. Q. Okay. For like roads? I 23 Q. Yeah. 23 A. Yeah. 24 A. Okay. Yeah. 'Iwo. 24 Q. Okay. 25 Q. And again significant means different 25 A He just started that grade crew job though, 11 (Pages 38 to 41) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Beetrenleally signed by eynthla honking; (301-051476-2934) b5cti743bilae6-48c1 aSeb-16350b255754 EFTA00723692 Page 42 Page 44 1 because before he was a — he hung drywall. 1 going to get married or just kind of a perpetual 2 Q. Okay. 2 engagement? ' 3 A. That's how, when I met him he was hanging 3 A. No. We don't have a date planned. I am still 4 drywall but now he's on a grade crew. 4 trying to work on getting a stable, you know, car, and 5 Q. Okay. Again with the downturn in the 5 place to live and you know, because we just barely moved 6 economy, working on roads is probably a little more 6 in like a couple ofmonths ago. So, I am still waiting 7 stable. 7 on the ring. 8 A. Yeah. That Chinese drywall didn't go too 8 Q. Understand. Has Aaron ever had any 9 well. 9 nm-in's with the law or any problems? 10 Q. Was he putting up the Chinese stuff or was 10 A. Yeah. He got arrested in 2006 or 2005 or 11 he? 11 something. He was, spent a year Injail for burglary 12 A. Huh? Yeah. He was in Palm Beach working on 12 and he was put on probation after that, violated his 13 the island, and you know, Boca and stuff. So he —1 13 probation and in March of 2007 and got out of jail June 14 don't think he got any infection or anything from it 14 of 2007 and has not been back since or has any tickets 15 but, you know, I think it was only a couple ofhouses 15 or nothing. I was kinds surprised he got his license 16 they did, not too many. 16 last year, no tickets or nothing so... 17 Q. All right. And I think you said he was 17 Q. What do you mean tickets like — 18 your fiancee or something. So are you still seeing 18 A. 'affle violations. 19 Aaron? 19 Q. Spading, seat belt? 20 A. Yeah. He is the father ofmy son. 20 A. Yeah, anything. Not, haven't had no problems. 21 Q. Okay. So, how long have the two of you 21 Q. Does he have any tattoos? 22 been going out? 22 A. Yeah. 23 A. Since January of2007. So, it will be three 23 Q. What's he got? 24 years that I've been with him 24 A. He has Palm Beach on his back. 25 Q. January 2007? 25 Q. Okay. Page 43 Page 45 1. A. Yes. 1 A. With the area code. Oh, my God. That's so 2 Q. Okay. And is it a good relationship? 2 finny. I don't know why he did that. I mean, to brand 3 A. Yeah. 3 yourself, I guess. I don't have no tattoos. 4 Q. Any issues with domestic violence or 4 Q. Okay. He's got the area code? 5 dating violence? 5 A. Yeah. It says Palm Beach and then 561. 6 A. No. 6 Q. Okay. And as far as you know that tattoo 7 Q. He's never hit you; you've never hit him? 7 has no significance or no meaning? 8 A. No. 8 A. Oh, well, he was born in Palm Beach and he was 9 Q. All right. How does he get along with 9 born in Lake Worth. And i guess that's what it means to 10 your family? 10 him. 11 A. Good. My mom's kind of a — she buys stuff 11 Q. Okay. 12 that's unnecessary. So like, she buys extra stuff, 12 A. I think it's ninny. 13 like, you know, women do, if it's on sale they buy it 13 Q. Because a lot of times gangs will? 14 buy two or three or six of them. And Aaron is more like 14 A. No. 15 a clean and neat person. So, you know, when we go over 15 Q. Tattoos, area codes, and things like 16 there, because she lives right next to door to me. 16 that — 17 So — 17 A. No. He is not — 18 Q. Okay. 18 Q. He is not part of a gang? 19 A. When we go over there, bring the baby over, 19 A. No, no. 20 whatever, he complains about the clutter, about you 20 Q. Because that's like an identification 21 know, the mess. She's like leave my stuff alone. You 21 thing? 22 don't live hem. You know, I mean, they butt heads like 22 A. No. 23 any in-laws do I guess with their daughter's boyfriend, 23 Q. So if you're in the same gang, you know 24 but they have learned to, I guess, love him. 24 what area you're from or if you're in a different 25 Q. Do you guys have a date on when you're 25 gang, you know which turf. 12 (Pages 42 to 45) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by cyrithis bodkins (601-0514714934) bkb743b-dae6-41x1-a5ob f6350b255764 EFTA00723693 Page 46 Page 48 1 A. No. 1 Q. Does Aaron use any drugs or -- 2 Q. No. 2 A. No. 3 A. The only other tattoos are like his mother's 3 Q. Okay: Has he in the past? 4 name and his dad's name and his, his brother died when 4 A. Yeah. When he was doing that whole burglary 5 he was six months old. So that's the only other 5 thing, I guess that's what, why he was burglarizing 6 tattoos. The only tattoo that is other than, you know, 6 people was — he had a problem. 7 family, is that one on his back. So, you could say that 7 Q. Do you know what he was using? 8 was the one, he — oh, and he has a spider web right 8 A. Cocaine. 9 here. But, so, you know, a spider web. He got those 9 Q. Did he go to a treatment caner or -- 10 tattoos before we met so... 10 A. Yeah. He went to the Drug Farm in, at the 11 Q. Okay. Did he get any while he was in jail 11 stockade. 12 for the year? 12 Q. Okay. And you said you had two 13 A. Huh? 13 significant relationships. Who was the other one 14 Q. Did he get any tattoos while he was in 14 since Aaron? 15 jail? 15 A. His name was James. lie passed away December 16 A. Those were the tattoos. But we didn't meet 16 of 2006. 17 when his first when he did that year in jail. 17 Q. What happened? 18 Q So — 18 A. He shot himself. 19 A. We met after wards. 19 Q. Pm sorry to hear that. 20 Q. — the spider web he got in jail? 20 A. Yeah. 21 A. Yeah. All those tattoos. 21 Q. What was James last name? 22 Q. And palm Beach? 22 A. Sullivan. 23 A. All those tattoos. I think that's one of the 23 Q. So, you met Aaron after lames? 24 reasons why he got them. 24 A. Huh? 25 Q. All right. And you said you have no 25 Q. You met Aaron after lames? Page 47 Page 49 1. tattoos? 1 A. Yeah. I don't know what happened. It wasn't 2 A. No. I have a piercing and it's because I can 2 like I was looking or anything. We just met and just 3 take it out, and you know, when I don't -- because I've 3 clicked and — 1 had my tongue pierced and my belly but I've tooken (sic) 4' Q. How old were you when you met him? them out and I got tired of them. So this is the only 5 A. Who, James? 6 thing. My ears pierced. 6 Q. Uh-huh? 7 Q. Now, why a lip piercing? 7 A. I was 16. It was like we were together for 8 A. I don't know. (teat of the moment I guess. I 8 like six months or something. It wasn't really, you 9 didn't want to do my nose or, you know, my eyebrow. 9 know, long, but it was like, you know, it stuck with me 10 That's the only, and I won't get a tattoo because I'm, 10 because, you know, it was a situation that, that 11 you know, I don't — I was thinking about getting my 11 happened. And like, you know, I did really like him, 12 son's name on my back, but I even put off on that 12 but I mean, we didn't end our relationship because of — 13 because I don't like needles. And to do that your body 13 we broke up because he died so... 14 is, you know, should really mean something, you know, if 14 Q. Okay. So, where did you two meet, through 15 you're going to brand your body like that, it's going to 15 school or... 16 sag to your butt when you turn 80, you know, so — 16 A. Throw)) friends. My aunt lives inhis 17 Q. Fair enough. 17 neighborhood. 18 A. Yeah, so, you should be really, you know, like 18 Q. Okay. 19 don't put Micky Mouse on you, and you know, you're a 40 19 A. I met him, yeah, where my aunt lives. Well, 20 years old and you got Micky Mouse on you. I mean, it 20 she used to live there. She don't live there no more. 21 doesn't, it doesn't look hot. It doesn't look good, you 21 She just moved recently. 22 'mow, so — 22 Q. And I apologize. I know you said he 23 Q. I understand. 23 passed away in 2006.. What happened there? 24 A. I actually put off on tattoos and stuff like 24 A. He -- I don't know if he did it on purpose or 25 that. 25 It Wet an accident or whatever. had a gun and 13 (Pages 46 to 49) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, .INC. Electronically signed by cynthia hopkins (601.061478-2934) b6cb7430-clae6-4bc1-a5eb.16350b255754 EFTA00723694 Page 50 Page 52 1 the next thing I know I seen him in the middle of the 1 the location. But I mean where was he physically at 2 road with blood coming out of his head. So, i don't 2 when ho shot himself? 3 know if that was like intentional. 3 A. Down the street from my mom's house or like in 4 We got into a fight the night before„ and 4 front of my house now. Like my house is right here and 5 he went out with some guy friends or whatever. You 5 there is a speed bump like right here on the road in 6 know, how guys do when they get mad and you know, 6 front and — 7 just mown be away. And he left and he came back. 7 Q. Okay. 8 He was drunk or whatever. And I don't know. Just 8 A. And I found him on the speed bump. 9 went outside, and I don't know if he was like, you 9 Q. So, you said you were living next to your 10 know, playing with it or because he was messed up, 10 mother? 11. or i don't know. But, yeah, he, he shot himself or 11 A. I was living at my mom's house. 12 it was back here so i don't know if he like, you 12 Q. At the time. Okay. 13 know, some people do it like, do it up here or like 13 A. Yeah. 14 in their mouth, or you know, when they commit 14 Q. But even currently you're living near 15 suicide -- 15 where it occurred? 16 Q. Yeah. He held it 16 A. Yeah. Yes. 17 A. Yeah. That's why I don't know if it was like 17 Q. And you were the first person to find 18 intentional or like accidental. Like he might have been 18 him or... 19 like swinging it around because he was drunk, or I don't 19 A. Yeah. He was still breathing, yeah. 20 know. it was back here. 20 Q. Okay. Did he say anything to you? 21 Q. Do you know why he had a gun in the first 21 A. No. He was choking. 22 place? 22 Q. Okay. How did you deal with that? 23 A. He was that kind of person, i guess. He liked 23 A. Huh? 24 guns, hunting, you know, that type of stuff 24 Q. How did you deal with that? 25 Q. Okay. Got to bear with me on that one. 25 A. I didn't. I guess people get over grief Page 51 Page 5 1 Some people like guns because it's, you know, Second 1 different. I just didn't -- 2 Amendment and all that. Some people like guns 2 Q. Okay. 3 because it gives them street credit or whatever? 3 A. — deal with it at all. A. No. It was more that, you know. He was more 4 Q. When I ask this, I'm not trying to be coy 5 IAD — i don't know, like ho just liked them, liked to 5 or funny or anything, but I mean, how has that 6 take them apart and clean them and find out how they, 6 affected you long term? like, worked or, you know, like. I guess he was more 7 A. I, I don't really !mow why he did it. I mean, a like mechanical, like he wanted, you know. 8 in a way I kind of feel guilty because, you know, like, 9 Q. Okay. Did he usually carry a gun on him? 9 like, we were arguing. Maybe it was because of that 10 A. Not like on the street but like, you know, it 10 but, you know, relationships, you know, and all the 11 was in the house, in his house or whatever. 11 time, or you know, people fight. I mean, you don't go 12 Q. How old was he? 12 kill yourself or, you know -- 13 A. Nineteen, I think. 13 Q. Right. 14 Q. Okay. How many guns did he own? 14 A. — kind of lose your life over it. i mean, 15 A. Two. :5 you know, you can work at it, not, you know, try to end 16 Q. I'm trying to think. i mean, at 19 are 16 it. 17 you legally able to buy a gun? 17 Q. The argument you had, did you say you were 18 A. No. Not -- I don't think so, no. 18 over at the end of it, or was it justing an 19 Q. Okay. So, he kind of got them illegally? 19 argument? 20 A. Yes. I am sure of it. I don't think — they 20 A. No. It was just an argument and he stormed 21 weren't in his name or nothing, but I don't know if they 21 out and slammed the door. And we didn't talk the whole 22 were like off the street or, like, you know, where he 22 night, like he didn't answer his phone or whatever. i 23 got them because I didn't go with him to buy them. He 23 don't know. He didn't want to talk to me. I don't 24 had them before we got together. 24 really know. I don't remember what we said or what -- I 25 Q. And where, where did he -- I meant, 1 know 25 don't even remember what he said or what - I don't even 14 (Pages 50 to 53) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by cynthia hopkins (801.061-976.2934) b6cb743b-dee41-4bcliaSeb46360b255754 EFTA00723695 Page 54 Page 56 1 remember it was about. It was probably just the 1 Q. You said he was with me, so that's why I 2 littlest, dumbest, you know, thing, but I had to tell 2 was wondering — 3 his mom. That was the hardest thing. 3 A. Yeah, he's. 4 Q. Okay. Do you avoid trying to talk about 4 Q. — if you guys had moved in? 5 it? 5 A. No. He was with me the night before, you 6 A. Yeah. Yeah. I avoid tying to talk about 6 know. But when, before it happened, he left, you know. anything emotional or like, you know, I mean like me and 7 I don't know. I don't think he called anybody just 8 Aaron talk about us but like pest stuff that like, you 8 hanging out with his friends or whatever. And I called know, I mean, people lose their lives all the time. I 9 the friend that he was with that night and they said he 10 mean, you know. I mean, I can't like stress my life 10 left and he was fine. it over it, like, you know, or with time with my son, like 11 Q. Okay. 12 precious, you know, good time that I could be spending 12 A. He was drunk but he was fine. 13 with him to think about him, and you know, like my past 13 Q. And a little bit of an odd question 14 issues that, you know, happened behind me. And I don't 14 because again when you lose someone who was close to 15 know. 15 you, that may be something you will never forget 16 Q. Do you think about it when you walk by 16 but, how long do you think it significantly affected 17 where it happened? 17 you? 18 A. Na really. I found the casing. I don't 18 A. I don't know. It's — if I think about it, it 19 know, like, there was from this -- it was from the same 19 still affects me now. But I mean, like,' don't like, 20 you know, I just, it's a life that should not have been 4 20 gun, but you !mow I found it a while ago. L I still 21 have it. It's in my jewelry box but I don't look at it 21 lost, so that's why, you know. 22 or nothing. I don't talk his parents or his mom. I 22 Q. Over the last year if nobody brings him 23 don't even go around his friends or anything. 23 up, how many times do you think about him? 24 Q. Okay. Why not? 24 A. Not that much. 25 A. I mean, l don't know what to say to them, how 25 Q. Okay. About a month, three months after Page 55 Page he was with me and, you know, !don't really have — I 1 it happened, were you having bad dreams or anything 2 didn't do it. But I mean, in a way it makes me like 2 related to it? 3 feel bad to have to tell all these people that I cared 3 A. I don't know. I know I had dreams, but like I about this person, you know, and that he died, and it's 4 couldn't see his face. It wasn't, you know, like 5 not — because it's not fair to them. 5 nothing. It was like was trying to like just like, 6 Q. You main at the time you didn't want to go 6 you know. I don't know. Like he was walking away from 7 around them or even today me, and I was like trying to chase him but then he was A No. I seen-- 8 lace gone. It didn't happen long because 1— for some 9 Q. — you're still not going around than? 9 reason I have always had, like bad dreams of, you know, 10 A No. I seen them afterwards, but only a 10 like I got into a car accident, I got, l had bad dreams 11 couple, I've only seen them a couple of days after, you 11 about that for a little bit, but it went away. And I 12 know, like the funeral and at, at you ;mow, at his morn's 12 guess, whatever I'm going through I have, you know -- 13 house. But like after, I didn't really, you know, I 13 Q. Dreams about it. 14 don't know if I should have, like, you know, but I don't 14 A Dreams about it for a little bit but it goes 15 think that, you know, I was — they didn't really know, 15 away, I mean. 16 want to hear from me. What do 1, you know, I had to 16 Q. Is it the same dream every time or is 17 tell her, her baby died, her, her son, you know, it was 17 there variations in the dreams? 18 her youngest son. I had to tell her her baby died. 18 A. It's the same blank face every time, like I 19 Q. How did she take the news? 19 can't make out the face or like see where he is going or 20 A. Not well. She didn't like say anything to me 20 like - 21 or was like mean to me, not at all. I just, you know. 21 Q. Bear with me, but is it the exact same 22 Q. Was he living with you at the time or... 22 dream with you doing everything the same way or is 23 A. No. He just cane over, you know. 23 it kind of the same theme but there are different -- 24 Q. Okay. You didn't — 24 A. The same, the same theme, like, you know. •25 A. His mom's house. 25 Q. Okay. 15 (Pages 54 to 57) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Elsetronlealy signed by mega bobbins (001-0514764934) b5eb743b.dae6.4bel-a5eb-f6360b265784 EFTA00723696 Page 58 Page 60 1 A. Walking or walking down the street or like, 1 Q. Anybody else in the car with you? 2 you know, shopping or, you know, I mean, just random 2 A. My two cousins were in the back. 3 places and I will just happen to see him. And I would 3 Q. Anybody hurt? 4 try to go follow him or something and when I turn 4 A. My mom had bums from the air bag and glass in 5 around, he's not there. her arm and chest and stuff. 6 Q. And would you have the dream every night 6 Q. Okay. Do you know how serious the burns 7 or would it be kind ofin spurts? 7 were? Were they like first degree, second degree, 8 A. It was kind of like, you know, it was December 8 third degree? 9 soil was around Christmas. We didn't celebrate 9 A. They didn't, they lasted like a month. 10 Christmas because I couldn't, you know. It was like 10 Q. Okay. 11 that, that month or whatever, couple of times out of 11 A. There's no scars or nothing. 12 that month. But alter I met Aaron it stopped happening. 12 Q Okay. Did the paramedics have to come? 13 Q. Okay. What happened with the car 13 A. Yeah. 14 accident? 14 Q. Did you have to be cut out of the car 15 A. I got — I was on 1-4. 15 16 Q. Okay. 16 A. No. 17 A. Coming back from the Disneyland water park or 17 Q. Okay. So, you were able to open your door 18 the ski resort that they have. It's a water park but 18 and get out on your own? 19 they call it Disney Ski Resort or something. 19 A. Yes, I was. 20 Q. Uh-huh. 20 Q. Did they have to cut mom out? 21 A. We were driving back and one of our tires blew 21 A. I think she got out from the passenger side. 22 and then another tire blew on the same side and we went 22 Q. Okay. Did they take her to the hospital 23 to a complete spin and went underneath a semi truck 23 or -- 24 Q. Wow. 24 A. Yeah. She didn't want to go because she 25 A. And he ran over our front, the front hood. 25 didn't know what happened and she was kind of dizzy Page 59 Page 61 1 And we got spit out, and we were lucky, very lucky. 1 Q. Who was, who was driving? 2 Q. Okay. How has that accident affected you? 3 A. Mme.'s]. 3 A. I don't go on the interstate anymore. Q. Okay. How long ago was this? 4 Q. Okay. At any time? A. 1 want to say 2004 or somewhere around there. 5 A. No. I've been on there like a couple of .5 I know it was June because my uncle got married and they 6 months ago we went to Miami to go drop somebody off at 7 live in Jersey. And we were in Jersey, and we came back 7 the airport. But heifer the way we took 441. So, l and we took a vacation to Daytona with them and two of still like get really nervous, and so I try to avoid 9 my cousins and my mom, you know, had vacation or have 9 that. 10 their honeymoon. And they left. They told us to go to 10 Q. So, like what happened for that little bit 11 the Keys and visit my aunt and, yeah, and my mom, and 11 you were on the interstate? 12 me, my cousins, my two cousins. And yeah, I know it was 12 A. Nothing. I just put my head down, or I'm a 13 June 2004 or 2005. I think it was more'4. 13 real back seat driver. 14 Could I use the bathroom? 14 Q. You said you had some dreams related to 15 DR. HALL: Sure. Why don't we go ahead 15 that as well? 16 and take a break. I think we have been at this 16 A. Yes. 17 for roughly an hour now. 17 Q. How long did they last for? 18 (A brief recess was held at 10:43 a.m.) 18 A. I don't know. I don't know. I've seen a 19 BY DR. HALL: 19 therapist about it and they told me I should take 20 Q. So, we were, just took alittle break We 20 sleeping pills for it, but I don't know. They went 21 were talking a little bit about the car accident. We 21 away. I don't know how long they lasted but they went 22 said two tires blew out and went under a semi-truck 22 away. I just, you know, I get nervous by big trucks or, 23 and mom was driving on 1-4. Were you in the front 23 you know, people switching lanes too close to my car. I 24 passenger seat, back passenger seat? 24 haven't been in an accident since, so... 25 A. Front passenger. 25 Q. If you can try and ballpark about it, did 16 (Pages 58 to 61) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Beetronleally signed by eyed* napkins (601-0514764934) bieb743b-dae6-4bc1.05eb-f6350b255754 EFTA00723697 Page 62 Page 64 1 the dreams last for like a month, three months, a 1 a weak stomach, or that's why people are telling me 2 year? 2 ulcers because you throw up so frequent, you know, you 3 A. I don't know because I see them — I've seen a 3 get it or whatever, I don't know. 4 therapist and I only went to her one time. And then 1 4 Q. When you throw up, you are throwing up 5 think I seen another one for the same, the same thing. 5 black stuff? 6 But I went to a program and they, I don't know, I guess 6 A. It looks like smoking, you know. !just 7 like when I am at stressed times, that they come back. 7 thought it was always, you know, the, the mucus or 8 But I mean, ! don't know. It didn't last too long. 8 something. That's what I have always thought it was. 9 Same with the ones before, but they, you know, like I 9 But you knoW, yeah, it looks like pieces of my, my chest 10 said I dream about whatever I did, you know, that day. 10 or my lungs because I smoke. So I don't know if that 11 Q. And what, what type of program did you go 11 has to do with it. 12 to? 12 Q. Bear with me here, what are your bowel 13 A. I went to a behavioral and substance abuse 13 movements like? 14 program for juveniles. 14 A. Wow. 15 Q. Do you remember the name of the therapist 15 Q. I am asking you seriously. I am not 16 and counselors that you saw related to the truck 16 trying to be funny. I am being serious. 17 incident? 17 A. They are fine. 18 A. No. I seen one lady one time. I don't even 18 Q. Fine. 19 like give her a chance because as soon as I walked in, I 19 A. Every morning, but i mean, like, I wake up out 20 started talking, she's like, oh, well, we need to get 20 of my sleep to get sick. 21 you on some kind of medication. I was like, no, we 21 Q. Have they changed coloration on you? 22 don't, because like, yeah. And I am not going to, you 22 A. No, I don't think so. 23 know, they, like I had a problem with, you know, 23 Q. Are they black or silver-ish? 24 substance abuse problem, but I don't eat any kind of 24 A. No. 25 Tylenol now because 1 haven't — I don't know why I 25 Q. Or are they just brown? Page 63 Page 65 1 haven't been to the doctor, but I have like a week 1 A. No. They're just brown. I moan, it's, I 2 stomach. I throw up ill, you know, and really like 2 mean, I don't know. 3 acidy stuff too, tomato sauce. And so1don't know. 3 Q. Okay. 4 Maybe I have an ulcer or something. But I don't, I 4 A. My stomach hurts afterwards like, you know, 5 don't even take Tylenol now because it makes me sick. 5 you get that rumble in your stomach that you have to use 6 Q. Okay. Hold on there. Bear with me. 6 the bathroom and it should go away afterwards but it 7 There is one thing to have a weak stomach. Has 7 doesn't 8 anyone told you you have an ulcer? Q. Okay. And again I am not trying to be 9 A. No. 9 funny here, but are your bowel movements softer than 10 Q. No. Okay. Have you ever thrown up blood 10 usual or is it hard to wipe or... 11 or things like that look like coffee grounds? 11 A. I wouldn't say it's hard to wipe. 12 A. I have thrown up black and brown, like it 12 Do you have to wipe frequently? 13 looks like, you know, it — some of it is not food. It 13 A. Huh? 14 .looks like pieces of my throat corning out. 14 Q. Do you have to wipe frequently? 15 Q. Okay. When was this? 15 A. Yeah. 16 A. I mean, I was sick this morning. It's like 16 Q. Do people say you look pale? 17 you know, I had I pizza yesterday so this morning when I 17 A. No, I'm — 18 woke up I was like — I have been up since 5:30. So I 18 Q. Usually you look, have healthy coloration? 19 have been sick all morning, but it's, at least like two 19 A. Yeah. I, I passed out one time, but I mean, 20 or three times a week, I get sick from something, you 20 they think that was heat exhaustion. 21 know. 21 Q. How keg ago was that? 22 Q. What do you mean sick, you mean vomiting? 22 A. Beginning of this year, somewhere around 23 A. Die I throw, yeah. And I don't,1don't have 23 there. I think in the springtime or something. 24 health care, so I can't, you know, go to the doctors or 24 Beginning of summer, something like that. I went to the 25 but, yeah. I don't, I don't know. I don't know if it's 25 junkyard to get parts for my car and I didn't eat or 17 (Pages 62 to 65) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by cynthle bodkins (6014151-9764934) bleb743b-dae64bc1•a5eb•16360b265764 EFTA00723698 Page 66 Page 68 1 nothing that morning. We were out there until like 12. 1. Q. And are we talking like a teaspoon worth 2 And like at the junkyard there is little pebbles of 2 or a tablespoon, arc we talking like half a cup? 3 rock. But on top of that they take the glass and put it 3 A. Of throw up or like black stuff? 4 on the, use it as, I guess, with the rocks or whatever Q. Of the black stuff. 5 that are broken up on the ground There is a whole 5 A. Like, maybe a couple of teaspoons. Ws like 6 bunch of glass everywhere. So, the reflection from the 6 mixed with the yellow stomach acid, you know or the food 7 glass or something, you know, it was lace beaming in my 7 from the night before. 8 face. And the next thing I know I was on the ground. 8 Q. And it doesn't look like anything you had 9 You know, I hit the concrete. 9 to eat? 10 Q. Okay. When you stand up do you get 10 • A. No. I mean, it could be because I drink tea 11 ►ightheaded? 11 and soda and stuff. I mean, it could be that, right? 12 A. Sometimes, if, you know, if I stand up too 12 Q. But it's solid? 13 quick or like if I go to try to pick up my son and lift 13 A. Yeah. It's, it's like, little chunks. 14 him up really quick, I feel like I need to sit down or _4 Q. Okay. 15 something. :5 A. It looks like mucus or something, you know, 16 Q. And when you had your son, did anybody 16 hawk up something being sick or I don't know. I was, 17 tell you were anemic or... 17 just always thought it was from smoking because I don't, 18 A. Yeah. That's the another reason why I have 18 you know, I really need to stop. 19 this big coat because when 1, when I got pregnant with 19 Q. It, it could. Sometimes when people have 20 him, they told me that I had very low iron. And to this 20 little bleeding in the stomach, that's what it can 21 day I still, you 'mow, you could still see my blood 21 also be like. 22 through my skin. And I can see still see red spots 22 A. No. I haven't had like no, like, side pains 23 everywhere. I don't know why. I don't bow. 23 or like excruciating pains that I feel like I need to go 24 Q. Did you take prenatal vitamins? 24 to the hospital. But like my stomach pains do wake me 25 A. Yeah. And on top of that I took the iron 25 up in the morning to go throw up. Page 67 Page 1 pills, but they made me sick also. I was sick through 1 So, when you get? 2 my whole pregnancy. 2 A. Once I throw up I feel a little bit better. 3 Q. Throwing up or... 3 Q. Okay. 4 A. Yeah. But that had to do with, you know, the 4 A. It usually happens in the morning early and 5 pregnancy. I didn't, like, the sickness didn't start, 5 then, you know. like this throwing up until after I had him. Like, you 6 Q. Se, you get morning stomach pains and you know, like, six months or whatever. But I, I was sick 7 said earlier they sometimes wake you up from your 3 throughout my whole pregnancy with him. 8 sleep? 9 Q. So, the recent throwing up, if I heard 9 A. Yeah. And I know I am not pregnant because — 10 correctly, started six months after you were 10 yeah, I know I am not pregnant. Positive of that. 11 pregnant? 11 Q. Okay. You've taken a home pregnancy test? 12 A. Yeah. It had nothing to do with the 12 A. No. I got my friend right now. So 1' know I 13 pregnancy. 13 am not pregnant because I didn't like, okay, during my 14 Q. You're throwing up about twice a week? 14 pregnancy, I didn't have, you know. 15 A. Yeah. 15 Q. Okay. 16 Q. And when you throw up you got black stuff 16. A. Okay. I don't need to explain it. But, yeah, 17 in there. 17 I know I am not pregnant. 18 A. Yeah. It's from -- 18 Q. Okay. Meaning you recently had your 19 Q. is it like solid chunks or is it -- 19 menstrual period? 20 A. Ifs like — 20 A. Yes, yes. 21 Q. — pebbly or... 21. Q. Gotcha. Okay. 22 A. It's like spots and like the stomach acid 22 A. I didn't want to say it like that but, okay. • 23 that, you know. 23 Q. [will try and use medical terms. I am 24 Q. Okay. 24 not trying to embarrass you. 25 A. Like little browns ts or whatever. 25 A. Yeah, I know. It's just not something I am 18 (Pages 66 to 69) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by cynthia hopkIns (601-061476•@934) b5414743b4m6-4004504113806265754 EFTA00723699 Page 70 Page 1 used to talking about in my house. I got two guys, so 1 Q. Okay. Compared to like your friends, your 2 we keep the if they could, they probably would put me 2 motha's experiences with the — 3 in a little bubble away from everybody. 3 A. i'm, my fiends i would say I am actually a 4 Q. While we're on the subject, how old were 4 lot calm than they are but -- 5 you when you first had your first — 5 Q. Okay. 6 A. Son, or when i had my son? 6 A. I mean, it's funny because they are having 7 Q. When you had your period. 7 their own little problems with their boyfriends or 8 A. Oh, what I had my period. 12,11. 8 whatever. Q. Okay. Have you had any problems with your 9 Q. Okay. So, we talked about the stomach. /0 menstrual cycle? 10 And I apologize, I may ask you more about that 11 A. I get cramps, but I mean, they try to control 11 later. And we talked about the car. How long after 12 it with birth control and stuff And I don't get them 12 the accident or how long do you think the accident 13 so bad now. I used to when I first got my period. It 13 bothered you for? 14 used to be really bad. They put me, they put me on some 14 A. Oh, it still bothers me. 15 like a stronger Ibuprofen or something like a 500 during 15 Q. It still bothers you? 16 my, when I start my period or whatever. They gave me 16 A. Yeah. I don't go on the interstate. I just 17 like a couple ofpills or whatever for when i started my 17 started driving. I barely just got — I got my permit 18 period. 18 last Wednesday. And since I am 18, I con take the 19 But then when i became like 15 or 16, they 19 driving test. But I have to wait because they want, 20 told me that birth control would help, you know, 20 they told me that I would have to take paper, a license, 21 with the menstrual cycle and the bleeding and 21 and a pennit if I get two different, you know, things. 22 heaviness and the cramps and stuff and all that 22 So, since I am over 18, lean make another appointment 23 other stuff. So, I got it, the birth control for 23 for another day to come back and take my driving test 24 everything but what it was for. 24 and get my actual driver's license but, you know. 25 Q. (Any. 25 Q. Okay. Page 71 Page 73 1 A. Obviously that's where AJ. came along, my 1 A. I did already take the test and stuff like 2 son, but T got everything but birth control. 2 that. So, you know. I do my license and stuff and you 3 Q. And were you consistent with taking it or 3 know,! haven't — I just got it last week so I haven't 4 did you miss? 4 tad the time. You know I have to do it sometime this 5 A. No. I missed, yeah. 5 week to get my license before Thanksgiving hopefully. Ci Q. And again sometimes I know women can get a 6 Q. Okay. So, when you say you just got it, I 7 little irritable like right before they have their 7 mean youjust, just got it? 8 period. Do you think you have mood swings that are 8 A. Yeah. I just got it last Wednesday. Like I 9 beyond usual? 9 just got it. I really put off on driving because I am 10 A. Not beyond usual, but when I get my, you know. 10 really scared with my son and stuff like that, you know. 11 Who doesn't. I cook and clean and take care of a two 11 Like, what was it, Saturday a friend of 12 year old all day. 12 ours that was just leaving our house, Aaron's mom's 13 Q. There is a condition out there called 13 . husband was leaving our house. And he got into an 14 Premenstrual Dysphoric Disorder which is kind of a 14 accident just, you know, just going home. Somebody 15 severe irritability, mood changes usually monthly. 15 hit him from, coming, making a U-tun or something, 16 I am sorry usually a week before. So, would that be 16 so. 17 something that you would say describe you, doesn't 17 Q. I vologize. We ldnd ofgot off track a 18 describe you? 18 little bit. We were talking about relationships and 19 A. I mean, I get my normal, get away from me and, 19 then talked about what happened with one of the 20 you know but I don't like snap or have like a breakdown 20 people you were, a significant person to you. 21 or you know, like, you know, start freaking out for 23. Is there anyone else or any kind ofother 22 Lice, you know, like because of the salt on the ground 22 kind of traumas you've experienced? 23 or like, youlmow, there is a dish, you know. I mean, I 23 A. Traumas, what are you, what do you mean 24 don't, I don't think, but I don't know what normal, what 24 trauma? 25 you would say a normal is. 25 Q. Something you consider traumatic or that divarsecry...w.towseb...taa-sase-waesi taa.......—eatasi 19 (Pages 70 to 73) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed bycyn 'tallith* (601-081-976-2934) bileb743b-dac6-4bc1-a5eb-16350b265754 EFTA00723700 Page 74 Page 76 1 was disturbing for you. And again, it varies. 1 A. 1 guess you could say that. 2 Different people may find something bothersome. 2 Q. And again I don't want to put words in 3 Others may not. So, like some people talk about 3 your mouth. So if I say something that is not 4 hurricanes as being very traumatic. Other people 4 right — 5 it's like, yeah, it was an interesting experience 5 A. I mean — 6 but, nah. So, ifs whatever in your own life you 6 Q. — just let me know. 7 consider to be traumatic or... 7 A. That's bow it started. That's how, you know, A. I mean, you have got most of it. My accident, 8 that's bow I got introduced to it. I was hanging out 9 I went into a program but, I mean, it wasn't long. It 9 and they were like, hey, you know, you want to come over 10 was like a month. It wasn't bad. 10 here, we're all, you know, hanging out, we're all — 11 Q. And that was the drug program? 11 that's how it shifted and then, now, then, I guess 12 A. Yeah. It wasn't bad. 12 started to like the way it felt more than the way I felt 13 Q. Do you remember the name of that? 13 normally. You know. I guess it's different. It was a 14 A. Learning Skills or something. 14 home away from home, you know, like in my own head. 15 Q. Learning Skills or Lorraine Scales? 15 Q. Ootcha. While we're talking about it, get 16 A. Learning Skills. 16 a little more, why don't we do the substance history 17 Q. Learning Skills. Do you think the 17 now. How old were you when you first had something 18 accident was partly why you were using the drugs and 18 to drink? 19 was there — 19 A. I'm going to try, I think I was 13 when I 20 A. I don't think so. I don't — I just didn't go 20 first started. I don't really like drinking. 21 on the interstate because of the accident and then like 21 Q. At your most how much have you had? 22 it would cause me — because if I wanted to use drugs, I 22 A. To drink? Like three cups. Like I said, I 23 would have taken the prescription that they were tying 23 have a weak stomach. I don't, thinking is not really... 24 to give me in the first place. You know, that would 24 Q. Have you ever developed tolerance to 25 make sense. 25 alcohol, meaning you needed to drink more to get the Page 75 Page 77 1 Q. Well, I thought you said the program was a 1 same effects? 2 dual program? 2 A. (Witness shakes head.) 3 A. Yeah. But I was, I started my substance abuse 3 Q. Byer have any withdrawal symptoms? 4 after that. And I don't know if it had, I don't think 4 A. No. 5 it had anything to do with that. Oust think it had to 5 Q. Anything negative consequences from 6 do with the place and the time. You know, some kids 1 6 drinking? 7 guess try to fit in at first and then it becomes you 7 A. No. 8 know, part of life, or... 8 Q. Any treatment for alcohol? 9 Q. Okay. 9 A. No. 10 A. Ora habit. 10 Q. Last time you had something to drink? 11 Q. So, using the drugs wasn't related to what 11 A. I had — what's today? Todays were in 12 happened? 12 November, right? 13 A. I don't think — 13 Q. 14 Q. — as part the accident? 14 A. Inn& have had -- I had beer on 15 A. — I was self-medicating because of my 15 October 3Ist. 16 accident. 16 Q. Okay. It's the 23rd today. 17 Q. You don't thing so? 17 A. Yeah. 18 A. No. Because, I don't think. So but even then 18 Q. October 2Ist or 31st? 19 it was not like I was driving or, you how. 19 • A. Thirty-first. It was Halloween. 20 Q Right 20 Q. Halloween. 21 A. Where I'm on the interstate or nothing. 21 A. After my trick or treating, and yeah, I was 22 Q. No, DUI's or anything? 22 already pooped out and ready to go outside. Kids and 23 A. Yeah, because you know. I was just — 23 candy don't work. They don't. Knocking on strangers' 24 Q. So, substance use was mostly kind of fit 24 doors so, yeah, I needed it. But yeah, like I said, I 25 in with the people you were hanging out with? 25 don't really have to drink, so I like, I don't even 20 (Pages 74 to 77) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by cynthla hopkins (601.051-976-2934) bgcb743b-n 6-4bcl-a5eb-f6350b265754 EFTA00723701 Page 78 Page 80 1 think I drank the whole beer. 1 was already watching 1 related to, you know, sometimes folks get a little 2 scary movies and ready to go to sleep. 2 paranoid when they smoke or they get the mumbles 3 Q. Just to make sure I understand, was 3 4 Halloween more of an annoyance or does it really 4 A. Oh, the mumbles, I mean when I smoked, they, 5 bother you having people knocking on the door and 5 yeah, I mean, down, and it made me not want to do 6 stuff like that? 6 nothing, you know, sit on your butt and, you know, just 7 A. I just don't like bringing my kid to knock on 7 lazy, and you know, not really into do anything, just 8 some strangers' door and like, you know, take candy from 8 want to sit there and like melt into the couch or 9 them, because then like he wants it now. It's not like something. 10 1 could wait to go home and like give him a candy, and 10 Q. So, it kind of sapped your motivation? 11 flip through it, or like switch his candy for my candy 11 A. Yeah. 12 or something, you know. It didn't work that way. It 12 Q. My negative consequences from smoking? 13 was like he wants it now. And he just started learning, 13 A. Not from smoking weed. From other stuff 14 you know, words like yes, no. Like he knows what it 14 Q. Okay. And did you get treatment for the 15 means, tells me, you know, very demanding. 15 marijuana? 16 Q. So, it was tiring taking your own kid 16 A. Yeah. It was all one. 17 around to the houses? 17 Q. Okay. And that was the Living -- 18 A. Yeah. And you know, to houses and trying to 18 A. Yeah. 19 keep away the candy mess and sticky fingers and, you • 19 Q. — or Learning? 20 know, walking into people's doors, knocking, yeah. We 20 A. Life Skills I think it was called. 21 had that problem too. He was like trying to walk into 21 Q. Life Skills. 22 people's houses like he knew where he was going. 22 A. Not -- I put Learning Skills. You know, I 23 Q. How old were you when you first tried 23 might be wrong. I don't, I was there Ike a month. 24 marijuana? 24 They have the exact, you know, name of it, so if you 25 A. Thirteen. 25 want to ask them. Page 79 Page 1 Q. Okay. And at your maximum, how much would 1 Q. Okay. you snake in one day? 2 A. I don't really remember. 3 A. That was one of my drug of choices. 3 Q. And what was your most recent time using Q. Okay. So, are we talking five cigarettes 4 marijuana? a day or five joints or less, more? 5 A. I stopped using -- A. Something like that. Like five, maybe seven, 6 Q. 16? tops. But that was one of my drug of choice. 7 A. Yeah. December, 2006. 3 Q. How long did you smoke at that frequency? 8 Q. Oh, okay. 9 A. Until I — 16, until I quit. 9 A. After all that happening I got on — I went to 10 Q. Would you smoke every day? 10 jail and that kind of opened my eyes to, to you know -- 11 A. Ub-huh.. 11 Q. What's going on and what's out there. 12 Q. A weekend thing. So, on average, how much 12 A. Yeah. 13 would you smoke a day if five to seven was kind of a 13 Q. Cocaine? 14 heavy day for you? 14 A. Yeah, ! wasn't really into — I was more like 15. A. That's just normal. 15 the downer type. So, I've fried it, but like wasn't 16 Q. Normal. Okay. Did you develop tolerance 16 really — it didn't stick. 17 to marijuana? 17 Q. How old were you when you tried it? 18 A. Uh-huh. 18 A. I was 16. 19 Q. Did you have any withdrawal symptoms when 19 Q. And was this powder or crack? 20 you stopped? 20 A. Yeah, it was powder. 21 A. Yeah. Iliad some hot sweats but that's about 21 Q. How often did you use it? 22 it. T don't 'mow if it was become, because of it but 1 22 A. I used it a couple of times, maybe like, you 23 haven't had none since. I only had for those couple 23 know, like a hand MI of times, maybe three, four times 24 weeks, remember. 24 out of like, you know, the year that I tried it or, you 25 Q. Did you ever have any negative feelings 25 know. 21 (Pages 78 to 81) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by cynthia hopkins (601-061.976.2934) blicb743b-dae6-4bc1-aSeb413360b255754 EFTA00723702 Page 82 Page 84 1 Q. Any negative experiences from it? 1. Q. Okay. My other prescription pills not 2 A. Yeah. Paranoid, and you know, like, I didn't 2 prescribed? 3 like it. And it's, just you know, spending all your 3 A- No. 4 money, you know you want to spend all your money on it 4 Q. So, no Percocets, Oxycodone? 5 or trying — it was just — 5 A. No. 6 Q. Ever take any prescription pills that 6 Q. Nothing like that, no Valium, Codamine, 7 weren't prescribed to you? 7 Clonapins? 8 A. Yeah. That was my drug of choice too, Xanax. 8 A. I've tried them, but I mean, like it was a 9 Q. How much Xanax were you taking? 9 one-time thing. It wasn't more than that. 10 A. Like three or four to a day. 10 Q. Have you tried Clohapins? 11 Q. Three to 4 milligrams or three to four 11 A. Yeah. I have tried Valium. I've tried 12 French Fries or... 12 Clonapins. I've tried — the Lorcets make me throw up, 13 A. Three to four French Fries, bars. That's what 13 so, and I've tried those but it didn't last long. And 14 it was called. 14 then, so I didn't, any kind ofit 'toe would probably 15 Q. Zanibars. 15 do the same effect, but, I've tried them. They really 16 A. Yeah. 16 stick as much as the Xanax did. 17 Q. Okay. I think those are usually like the 17 Q. Okay. Heroin? 18 three or four milligram amounts. And you were 18 A. No, no. 19 taking roughly 12 milligrams a day of Xanax? 19 Q. LSD? 20 A. Yeah. After a while I became really immune to 20 A. No. 21 it. 21 Q. PCP? 22 Q. Okay. 22 A. Na 23 A. I would, you know, wake up and, you know, want 23 Q. Methamphetamines? 24 it and it was bad. It became really bad. 24 A. No. 25 Q. How — what age did you start? 25 Q. Ewa*? Page 83 Page 85 1 A. Fourteen. I'd say it was in between. 1 A. No. 2 Q. And used daily? 2 Q. Never tried any of those? 3 A. I mean, in the end, yeah. But I mean, when it 3 A. No. 4 was just like every other day because I could wake up 4 Q. Okay. Inhalants like Whip-its or — 5 from the night before and still be kind of messed up 5 A. No. 6 from it, you know. 6 Q. Airplane glue or puffing gas or... 7 Q. Okay. Any withdrawal symptoms? 7 A No. 8 A. Yeah. 8 Q. Smoking — Q. What happened? 9 A. Huh? 10 A. Moody and I was just mean and didn't like 10 Q. Cigarettes? 11 nobody. I didn't want to be around nobody. Cold and 11 A. Yes. 12 hot sweats, or whatever. 12 Q. How old were you when you started? 13 Q. Ever had a seizure? 13 A. Like 16 or 17, !started after my program, in 14 A. No. 14 my program because I was, you know — 15 Q. Any negative consequences from using 15 Q. Okay. How much have you smoked a day? 16 /Canes? 16 A. I can smoke a pacica day. 17 A. Yeah. I got arrested on October 2006. I got 17 Q. And still smoke? 18 released Halloween of '06. I got put on probation 18 A. Yeah Bad habit. 19 January or the beginning of January of '07, or the end 19 Q. Any other drugs you have used or tried or, 20 or something. Somewhere around there. The same time I 20 mushrooms, angel trumpets? 21 met, before I met Aaron. It was the same time as Aaron 21 A No. 22 and I got put on house arrest. So, yeah. I did two 22 Q. Peyote, Special K, Ketamine? 23 years of probation. 23 A. No, no. 24 Q. Okay. And the last time you used? 24 Q. And when you used your marijuana, did you 25 A. December of '06. 25 ever lace it with anythin like PCP or cocaine or a.sk.N. 22 (Pages 82 to 85) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by cynthla hop*** (6014:151-9764934) b5eb743b•dae8.4bc1aSeb-16350b255764 EFTA00723703 Page 86 Page 88 1 dip it in anything? 1 and I got my purse and cellphone and stuff, my money 2 A. I smoked it with cocaine but that was like 2 stolen. But, yeah, I was, I was kind of messed up then. 3 once and I got, I got older cousins, that's another 3 So, you know, i don't know really what happened or, you 4 reason I, I didn't really, you know, experiment with any 4 know, how it went or who was there or whatever, but... 5 more. I've got these older guy cousins that, they would 5 Q. So, you've been the victim of crime? 6 put me in trash cans and like -- 6 A. Yeah. 7 Q. They would what? 7 Q. Were you hospitalized when that — 8 A. They would put me in trash cans, you know, 8 A. No. 9 like because I was, you know, I was always messed up. 9 Q. Were you seriously injured? 10 So they would like, you know, like, what are you doing, 10 A. I got these scars and stuff, you know, some 11 shaking me around a little bit, you know, like, cousin 11 scars or whatever else. They are on my head and on here 12 stuff' guess. 12 somewhere. But my cousins, you know, they, they found 13 Q. Okay. Would they be using too? 13 me and brought me home. I guess you could say I was the 14 A. Huh? 14 negative at the time of my using, but 1 mean, like... 15 Q. Would they be using at the same time? 15 Q. Pm sorry. What was that? 16 A. No, no, no. They were trying to get me to 16 A. I am saying that could be like a negative 17 stop. 17 point of my using, but I mean, it wasn't like1caused 18 Q. Okay. 18 it or like, you know, I had anything to do with It. 1 19 A. That was the point. They were big guys. They 19 wasn't even like coming back from somebodys house. I 20 were like meatheads, I guess you would say, really, you 20 was just like walking to my house. And, you know, they 21 know, like working out and staying healthy and, you 21 happened to see me or find me or whatever. Andl guess 22 know, 22 I was at the wrong place at the wrong time. But I 23 Q. &Ache. Where would you get your drugs 23 happened to be, you 'mow, kind of out of it, so they got 24 from? 24 a little lucky. 25 A. My neighborhood or — yeah. 25 Q. Now, are your cousins protective of you Page 87 Page 89 1 Q. Did you ever sell drugs? 1 2 A. No. 2 A. Yeah, very, very. 3 Q Did any of your boyfriends ever sell 3 Q And they are kind of plane living folks 4 drugs? 4 and work out but — 5 A. (Witness shakes head.) 5 A. Yeah. 6 Q. Did you ever trade any sexual favors in 6 Q. body is a temple thing? 7 order to get drugs — A. Yeah, they are guys. They are brothers. They a A. No. 8 are, they are very protective. They have one younger Q. — food, shelter, anything along those sister and then me, and you know, I'm their cousin, 10 lines? 10 11 A. No. 11 I have mostly guy cousins. I've got like 12 Q. Did you ever steal to be able to afford 12 five girl cousins. You know. I've got like ten, 13 it? 13 maybe, you know. Sometimes Hispanic have got a lot 14 A. Yeah, that's where my burglary came from. 14 of cousins and so on. And I have more guy cousins 15 Q. Okay. What's the, the most violent thing 15 than girl cousins, so they are mom protective of 16 you've ever done? 16 me, you know. 17 A. Most violent? My fights maybe. I haven't, I 17 Q. And do they live around you now, or... 18 haven't fought in like that long. It's been — yeah, 18 A. Yeah. 19 no. 19 Q. And you have a good relationship with 20 Q. When's the last time you think you were in 20 them? 21 a fight was — 21 A. Yeah, they come over a lot. 22 A. In school. 22 Q. I think I asked if you ever used a weapon 23 Q. School? 23 in your fights at school, but do you own any weapons 24 A. I mean, I have gotten, yeah, my neighborhood's 24 25 not the best neighborhood to live in. I gotten jumped 25 A. No. 23 (Pages 86 to 89) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by cynthia hopkins (601-061-976-2934) biScb743b. ae c )- EFTA00723704 Page 90 Page 92 1 Q. Any problems with cruelty to animals -- 1 time here since we're going to be changing the tape 2 A. No. 2 over, so — legal history? 3 Q. — fire starting, bedwetting? 3 DR. HALL: Yeah. 4 A. No, no. 4 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Sony for the 5 Q. Okay. Have you ever had any periods in 5 interruption, Doctor. 6 your life where you were homeless? 6 DR. HALL: Take your time. Sounds good. 7 A. No. 7 (A brief recess was held.) 8 Q. Okay. And where are you currently living? 8 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: All set 9 A. It's myself, my boyfriend, and my son in my 9 BY DR. HALL: 10 own house. Ifs not a house, a trailer but, you know, 10 Q. So, this is going to be what they call the 11 its my home. 11 MCMI-IIL It's the Milan Clinical Multi-Actual 12 Q. Okay. You said that's next to where your 12 Inventory. It's a standardized test. It's not — 13 mom's at? 13 it's been out there for a while, so it's not 14 A. Yeah. 14 directly related to this case or incident So when 15 Q. And your dad's living with mom right now? 15 you read the questions, keep in mind that these are 16 A. Yeah. 16 questions they ask people in general for clinical, 17 Q. Okay. How long have you been there for? 17 legal for a lot of different situations. 18 A. Where, with my parents or my house? 18 The instructions are the following pages 19 Q. Your, your trailer. 19 contain a list of statements that people use to 20 A. Since July of this year, so a couple of 20 describe themselves. They are printed here to help 21 months. 21 you in describing your feelings and attitudes. Try 22 Q And before that where were you at? 22 to be as honest and serious as you can in marking 23 A. Huh? 23 the statements. Do not be concerned if a few 24 Q. Before then where were you? 24 statements seem unusual. They are included to 25 A. My parents' house. 25 describe people with many types of problems. Page 91 Page 93 1 Q. Okay. I know you said your boyfriend 1 If you agree with the statement or decide 2 likes to keep things neat. Was he living with you 2 that it describes you, fill in the key on the 3 at the time you were with your parents? 3 separate answer sheet to mark it true. If you 4 A. Yeah. For, since yes, since we've been 4 disagree with a statement or decide that it does not 5 together. Well, we moved -- I moved out and when I had 5 describe you, fill in the F to mark it false. 6 my Sal in March of2008. We moved out and went to his 6 Try to mark every statement even if you're 7 cousins' house for a couple of months and that's where 7 not sure of your choice. If you have tried your 8 the FBI found me — so, I only lived there. 8 best and still cannot decide, mark the F for false. 9 Q. Okay. 9 Use a soft black lead pencil and make a 10 A. -- from March to June of'08. End of June, 10 heavy dark mark when filling in the circles. If you 11 the beginning of July. Something like that. I think it 11 make a mistake or change your mind, please erase the 12 was July. 12 mark fully and fill in the correct circle. 13 Q. And when you say the FBI found you, that's 13 Please do not make any marks on this 14 in regards to — 14 booklet. There is no time limit for completing the 15 A. Yeah. 15 invemory, but it is best to work as rapidly as is 16 Q. — mr. Epstein or other -- 16 comfortable for you. 17 A. Yeah, it's in regards to that. 17 All right. Any questions? 18 Q. Okay. 18 A. (Witness shakes heal) 19 A. I was on probation, and I guess they came to 19 Q Okay. So again, if you read a statement 20 my probation officer and they found my new address or 20 and you think it applies to you, true; if it 21 whatever, because they went to my mom's house first and 21 doesn't, false. All right Got some pencils here 22 then found me there. But I only lived there for a 22 and got some extra ones. Usually it takes people 23 couple ofmonths, and then we moved back to my mom's 23 about 20 to 30 minutes to finish up. 24 house after. 24 (Test was begun at II:15 a.m. and was 25 Q. Okay. I'm trying to keep track of the 25 completed at I I :49 a.m.) 24 (Pages 90 to 93) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. esefronleally signed by °intik' hoplcirs 16014514764934 blicb743b-daeb-sbo EFTA00723705 Page 94 Page 96 1 BY DR. HALL: 1 morning and I have a headache. 2 Q. All right. I have another test here for 2 Q. Ileadache. Okay. Have you taken any 3 you. It's similar to the other one. And this is 3 medicines or anything today or anything that -- 4 the MMPI. It's lightly longer. I'll read the 4 A. No. 5 instructions to you here: This inventory consists 5 Q. -- that could effect how you're doing, 6 of numbered statements. Read each statement and 6 beside just being sick and having a headache? 7 decide whether it is true as applied to you, or 7 A. I don't, I don't know. I haven't woken (sic) 8 false as applied to you. 8 anything, but I don't know, like, you know, since I woke 9 You are to mark your answers on the answer 9 up kind of early and... 10 sheet you have. Look at the example of the answer 10 Q. Okay. Is any of this nerves related to 11 sheet shown at the right. So, again, if it's true, 11. coming to see me? 12 you bubble in true; false, bubble in false. 12 A. Yeah, I almost got into an accident on the way 13 If a statement is true or mostly true as 13 here, so that might have something to do with it too. 14 applied to you, blacken the circle marked T. If a 14 Q. Okay. Were you driving or someone else 15 statement is false or not usually true as applied to 15 driving? 16 you, blacken the circle marked F. If a statement 16 A. No, I was driving. 17 does not apply to you or if it is something that you 17 Q. Okay. Again, if there's things going on 18 don't know about, make no mark on the answer sheet, 18 or you're having trouble, let me !mow. Or if you 19 but try to give a response to every statement. 19 don't understand something I ask or if you need me 20 Remember to give your own opinion of yourself. 20 to slow down, or as again, this, this isn't an 21 In marking your answers on the answer 21 endurance competition. Anything we can do to make 22 sheet, be sure that the number of the statement 22 it more comfortable for you, then let me know. 23 agrees with the number on the answer sheet. Make 23 Okay? 24 your marks heavy in black. Erase completely any 24 A. Yeah. 25 answers you wish to change. Do not make any marks 25 Q. Now, we got a little out of my usual Page 95 Page • 1 on this booklet. Remember, try to respond to every 1 order, but why don't we jump back here and talk a 2 statement. 2 little about your legal history. I know you said 3 All right. Any questions? 3 you had some run-ins? 4 JANE DOE NO. 6: (Witness shakes head.) 4 A. Ult-huh. 5 DR. HALL: No. Okay. 5 Q. How old were you the first time you had a 6 (Test was begun at 11:55 a.m.) 6 run-in with the law? 7 BY DR. HALL: 7 A. Sixteen. 8 Q. Ready for a break? 8 Q. Okay. And what happened there? 9 A. Uh-huh. 9 A. I got arrested for burglary. 10 Q. By all means. 10 Q. Okay. What did you take, or... 11 (A luncheon recess was held from until 11 A. Huh? 12 1:54 until 2:35 p.m.) 12 Q. What did you try and take, or... 13 BY DR. HALL: 13 A. They said I took like four or 5500 or 14 Q. Looks like you wore one of those down a 14 something like that, $300 and some kind of paintball or 15 bit? 15 BB gun or something. 16 A. Huh? 16 Q. Okay. What happened? 1.7 Q. One of the pencils. 17 A. Huh? 18 All right. So I appreciate you doing the 18 Q. How did that happen? 19 tests and you had a chance for lunch and all. 19 A. I don't know. I used to hang out at the kid's 20 Now I talked with your lawyer a little bit 20 house and I don't know. 21 during one of the breaks and she said you're not 21 Q. Okay. Did you take it? 22 feeling well today? 22 A. Huh? 23 A. (Witness nods head.) 23 Q. Did you take the stuff, or... 24 Q. What's going physically with you? 24 A. Huh? Did I take it? 25 A. on my period, and I was throwing up this 25 Q. Uh-huh. 25 (Pages 94 to 97) PROSE COURT. REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Beetronteaay signed by cynthis heckles (601.051470.2934) blieb743b-daeli-4bel-aSeb46350b255754 EFTA00723706 Page 98 Page 100 1 A. No. 1 A. We both got arrested and there was a bag of 2 Q. Okay. But you got charged with it? 2 weed and he took, it was his or he said it was his or 3 A. Yeah, I was. Yeah. 3 whatever and he took the charge. And it was no big 4 Q Okay. What happened? 4 deal. It was not like they found us, you know, getting 5 A. Oh, nothing. I got put on probation. I pled 5 high. Or they found us, me and him by ourselves in a 6 no contest. I got adjudication withheld, so... 6 hotel together. 7 Q. Okay. How long were you on probation for? 7 Q. Okay. And how old were you when that 8 A. Two years. 8 happened? 9 Q. Okay. I think I read some of the police 9 A. It happened March of 2007. 10 reports, and I think one of them said something 10 Q. So what happened when you violated your 11 about you said you were taking the fall for someone 11 probation? Did you get additional time, or... 12 else with that? 12 A. I was in jail for the rest of the month. They 13 A. Yeah. 13 extended my house arrest and they actually put me on a 14 Q. Who, who else was involved or — 14 lower probation or house arrest. 15 A. One of my cousins and her boyfriend. It's all 15 Q. Okay. 16 over with. I did, I did my time for it. I paid the 16 A. They put me on Community Control 1, and 17 money for it. I went through everything that needed to 17 originally I was supposed to be on Community Control 2. 18 be done so, to even, you know — 18 Q. All right. And then what happened with 19 Q. Okay. Was it a female cousin? 19 the second violation? 20 A. Huh? 20 A. They came to my house. They searched my house 21 Q. Was it a female cousin? 21 and found an old, like, pipe or bowl or something. It 22 A. Yeah, her boyfriend. 22 wasn't even used. It was empty. It didn't, didn't even 23 Q. Her boyfriend. Okay. Any other run-in's 23 have anything inside of it, and a scale, an old scale. 24 with the law? 24 And they, they arrested me and I was in jail for, like, 25 A. I violated my probation twice. I cut off my 25 a month. Page 99 Page 101 bracelet the first time. 1 I was pregnant with my son, and I got out 2 Q. Why did you do that? 2 like a month later. And well, I think all charges 3 A. Huh? 3 were dropped. I'm not sure. I don't know if they 4 Q. Why did you do that? 4 extended more of my probation, or I think they might 5 A. I don't !mow. I really didn't want to be in 5 have extended my house west. I'm not sure. 6 my house anymore, I guess. 6 Q. Okay. Are you still on probation, or is 7 Q. Okay. So when you were on probation, was 7 that all done? 8 that house arrest, or... A. No, I'm all done. 9 A. Uh-huh. 9 Q. Okay. How was the experience in jail? 10 Q. Okay. What happened after you cut off the 10 A. Not very good. 11 bracelet? 11 Q. Okay. What happened? 12 A. They found me like a couple of days later. 12 A. Nothing. I was 16,17 with a bunch of grown 13 Q. Okay. Did you, like, run away from your 13 women. 14 home? 14 Q. Okay. So, this all happened when you were 15 A. Huh? 15 under 18? 16 Q. Did you rim away from your home? 16 A. Yeah. But I was charged as an adult, so... 17 A. Yeah. 17 Q. Okay. Why was that? 18 Q. Where did you go? 18 A. My lawyer was trying to gel me -- I was — 19 A. Altaic!. 19 when I first got arrested, I was sitting in the 20 Q. Okay. Were you with anyone? 20 detention center, and they were waiting for court or to 21 A. Yeah. 21 figure out what was going to happen. And so he, I 22 Q. Who were you with? 22 guess, made some kind of arrangements to charge me as an 23 A. Aaron. 23 adult to send me to Gun Club, so then I can get bonded 24 Q. All right. What happened when they found 24 out and all that other good stuff 25 you. 25 Q. Okay. So it was a legal strategy instead i....r.Nat.ca6114nces.a.< 26 (Pages 98 to 101) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Eleetronically signed by cynthim hookIn4 (6014514764934) b5c13743b-clac6-4bct-a5ob-f6350b255754 EFTA00723707 Page 102 Page 104 1 of being tried in juvenile like an adult? 1 offend, but I'm going to be asking some sensitive 2 A. Yeah. 2 things. Just so you're aware. Feel comfortable 3 Q. Were you ever in the juvenile detention 3 putting whatever words you like to use. Okay. Do 4 center? 4 you prefer men, women, or both? 5 A. Yeah, in the beginning. 5 A. Men. 6 Q. What happened then? 6 Q. Okay. Have you ever had any experience 7 A. That was my original arrest 7 with a woman? 8 Q. The burglary? 8 A. (Witness nods head) 9 A. th-huh. 9 Q. Okay. How many times? 10 Q. How long were you in the juvenile 10 A. How many times or how many people? 11 detention center for? 11 Q. Both? 12 A. Three weeks. 12 A. One girl, a couple times. 13 Q. Okay. I mean, any time in your 13 Q. Okay. and how many male partners have you 14 incarceration, were you ever abused or involved in 14 had? 15 fights, or... 15 A. Three. 16 A. No. 16 Q. Three. I know we talked about significant 17 Q. Ever have any problems with hitting 17 relationships. You told me about two of your 18 guards, losing good time, getting tickets for 18 boyfriends. Were those two of your partners? 19 disciplinary actions while you were there? 19 A. (Witness nods head.) 20 A. Unh-unh. 20 Q. Okay. Who was the third? 21 Q. Okay. Ever declared incompetent or not 21 A. My first. 22 able to perceive? 22 Q. Okay. Do you )(now his name? 23 A. No. 23 A. Roger. 24 Q. Involved in any other accidents besides 24 Q. Do you know his last name? 25 the one you told me about with the truck and almost 25 A. No. Page 103 Page 105 1 being in one this morning? 3. Q. Okay. 2 A. No. 2 A. And that's the one that was awkward. I 3 Q. What happened this morning? 3 mean - 4 A. I was nervous and my leg, I like kept hitting 4 Q. You said it was a little rough. How old 5 the gas and just kept like moving the car. I thought I 5 were you when that happened? 6 was going to hit the car in front of me. 6 A. Like 15 or 14. 7 Q. Okay. How close did you come? 7 Q. Okay. Was it consensual? 8 A. No, I kept my distance. I was just nervous, 8 A. (Witness nods head.) 9 you know. I thought I might have to pull over just 9 Q. What made it awkward? 10 because of people around me and, you know. 10 A. Huh? 11 Q. Okay. 11 Q. What made it awkward? 12 A. lust a worry, not, you know, like, coming -- 12 A. We were stiff and no talking, and it was like 13 that I had to go on the sidewalk or nothing, but you 13 painful and weird and new and — you know, it was just 14 know, I was just worried I was going to get into an 14 awkward like. 15 accident. 15 Q. Okay. Had anybody talked with you about 16 Q. Okay. So, it was more of a concern. It 16 sex before that happened? 17 wasn't like — 17 A. (Witness shakes head.) 18 A. Yeah. 18 Q. Okay. 19 Q. — tires screeching or brakes being hit, 19 A. I 'mew about it, but 1 didet have like an 20 just worried? 20 adult figure come and, you know, tell me that the rights 21 A. But I just kept hitting the gas and I couldn't 21 and wrongs about it. 22 stop. 22 Q. You never had the classic birds and bees 23 Q. Okay. I want to get a little more kind of 23 conversation? 24 a sexual history from you. I'm going to try and use 24 A. No, no, nothing like that. 25 medical terms. rm not hying to embarrass you or 25 Q. Had you had sex education in school 4.letlaaa.b.CCaat:Lee...4alitall•lieDe 27 (P PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by cynthia hopkins (601451-978-2934) 85807438418•8-4841-aSeb-16350b255754 EFTA00723708 Page 106 Page 108 1 • before? 1 Q. Have you ever worked in the adult 2 A. No. 2 entertainment industry or as an escort? 3 Q. Where did you learn about sex from? 3 A. No. 4 A. Huh? 4 Q Have you ever taken photos of yourself 5 Q. Where did you leant about sex? 5 while you were being intimate with someone? 6 A. Random people, I guess. People around me in 6 A. No. 7 my neighborhood or, you know, friends, or whatever. 7 Q. Or videos? 8 Q. Do you have any sexual interest that 8 A. No. 9 somebody may consider unusual or special or -- 9 Q. Anything about your sexual history that I 10 A. What do you mean, like fetishes, or... 10 haven't asked you that you think I should know, 11 Q. Uh-huh. 11 would be helpful for me to know to understand what's 12 A. No. 12 going on? 13 Q. I'm going to name some here just to make 13 A. No. 14 sure you understand what I'm asking. And again, if 14 Q. Okay. Have you ever used marital aides or 15 it's no, that's fine; if it's yes, that's okay too. 15 sexual toys like vibrators or... 16 And interests can nut a large spectrum. 16 A. (Witness shakes head.) 17 So some people Ike things like certain 17 Q. Usual/1y after I Idnd of get the sexual 18 types of shoes or like, for instance, certain 18 history, I usually hear about what happened with 19 objects. Other people like to be tied up or like to 19 Epstein. Do you feel comfortable talking about 20 be tickled. Some people like to be urinated on, 20 that? 21 defecated on. 21 A. Yeah, I guess. 22 A. No. 22 Q Oko.Y. 23 Q. Some people like animals. 23 A. I mean, I just want to get it over with. 24 A. No. 24 Q Understand. How did all that happen? 25 Q. Some people like -- there's a large range. 25 A. I was — a, a girl came up to me and asked me Page 107 Page 109 „ 1 A. No, no. 1 if 1 wanted to make some money. And she told me we 2 Q. So, no? 2 would go to some guy's house and give him a massage, 3 A. No, nothing like that. 3 that we would make 200 bucks. And she told me she'd 4 Q. Have you ever tried anal intercourse? 4 call me the night before when she was ready or whatever. 5 A. No. Wow. 5 Q. Do you remember who this was? 6 Q. As I said, I'm going to try and use 6 A. Who this was? 7 medical terms. 7 Q. Yes. 8 A. Yeah. A. H.W. 9 Q. I'm not trying to offend or embarrass you. 9 Q. Okay. How did you know Ms. W.? 10 Has anybody stuck a finger in your rectum? 10 A. She was a friend of a friend. 11 A. Oh, my gosh. What? 11 Q. Okay. And what did she tell you to 12 Q. Has anybody stuck a finger in your rectum 12 expect? 13 or anus? 13 A. Nothing She didn't really give much detail 14 A. Yes. Wow. 14 about it. 15 Q. Was that uncomfortable? 15 Q. Okay. Did you think that was odd or... 16 A. Yes, very. 16 A. Yeah, but, like, the girls that -- like the 17 Q. Have you given or received oral sex? 17 friend of the friend, the girl that I knew, that 1 18 A. Yes. 18 really knew, she said she went over there all the time, 19 Q. Is that uncomfortable or unpleasant or... 19 20 A. No. 20 Q. Okay. And who was that? 21 Q. And you talked about your first time, I'm 21 A. Jane Doe 22 assuming that was penile-vaginal intercourse? 22 Q. Did you knov., her last name? 23 A. Uh-huh. 23 A. Doe. 24 Q. Has anyone used fingers to stimulate you? 24 Q. Okay. And what did Jane Doe tell you 25 A. f Witness nods head 25 about it? 28 (Pages 106 to 109) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by weds hopkins (601.051-976.2934) bilcb743b-dae8-4bct -fleb-16350b255764 EFTA00723709 Page 110 Page 112 1 A. I mean, E.W. was really the one who was really 1 Q. Do you remember Melissa's last name? 2 talking about it, but like Jane Doe assured me that it 2 A. Capusta (phonetic). I don't know how to spell 3 would be okay. 3 it. 4 Q. Okay. So you heard about it from kind of 4 Q. I probably don't either. Capusta. Okay. 5 two different people. E.W. was the main person — S Give it our best guess. 6 A. Yeah. 6 Okay. So 13 going on 14. You think you 7 Q. — that was going to take you? Did you 7 were at Jefferson Davis at that point E.W. said 8 ask them any questions? 8 shed come over and pick you up? 9 A. (Witness shakes head.) 9 A. Well, she said that wed take a cab from — 10 Q. All right. Did they tell you anything 10 Q. Okay. 11 about how to dress or... 11 A. - my neighborhood to where we were going. 12 A. When she came to my house, she got chopped off 12 Q. All right. And then what happened when 13 at my house, she -- I don't really remember. I don't 13 she came? 14 think she went over my clothes. She told me how to tell 14 A. She — we left my house, met the cab in front 15 him a different age though, and... 15 of my neighborhood. She was telling me how -- the only 16 Q. How old were you at the time? 16 like, thing she told me in the car on the way there is, 17 A. Thirteen. 17 you know, how she would ride around Palm Beach bermise 18 Q. Thirteen years old? 18 she never had to pay for the cab or whatever, that she 19 A. Yeah. 19 would just, you know, ride around and then show up 20 Q. Okay. What grade were you in? 20 there, and then, you know, whoever would come out and 21 A. I think it was my second year of sixth grade. 21 pay, you know, the cab driver, whatever. 22 Q. Okay. 22 Q. Okay. 23 A. I'm not really sure if it was my second or 23 A. We didnI do dtat. We just went straight 24 my — 24 there. 25 Q. Well, did you meet E.W. while you were at 25 Q. Okay. And what happened once you got Page 111 Page 113 1 Jefferson Davis? 1 there? A. Huh? 2 A. What happened when we got where? To my house, 3 Q. Well, did you meet E.W. through Jefferson 3 4 Davis or did you know her before Jefferson Davis? 4 Q. Pm assuming she picked you up at your A. I knew her before. I was 14, I think, because 5 house. She got a cab -- it happened August of 2004. So, yeah, I was 13 going on 6 A. She got dropped off at my house. We called a 7 14, that's right, because my birthday didn't come yet. 7 cab company from my neighborhood. Waited for them in 8 So I was right, 13. 8 front of the neighborhood, and then they came and got 9 Q. August of 2004? us. 10 A. Yes. 10 Q. Okay. And where did they take you? 11 Q. How do you remember it was August? 11 A. To Palm Beach Island, to some big house. I 12 A. A friend of mine, it was her birthday. Her 12 don't bow the street either. 13 birthday is 8/8/88. She was turning 16. 13 Q. 1 mean, was this Mr. Epstein's house — 14 Q. Okay. So they tallied to you about it at a 14 A. Yes. 15 birthday party or something? 15 Q. - or was it a different house? 16 A. No. that's the day I guess we went over there. 16 A. It was Mr. Epstein's house. 17 Q. Okay. 17 Q. Okay. What happened once you got to the 18 A. It was august 8th, 2004. 18 house? 19 Q. So, you had a really good kind of time 19 A. She walked in the door like she'd been there 20 marker to remember it by. 20 before, walked up the stairs -- 21 A. Ws only because it's, her birthday is four 23. Q. Okay. 22 eights and it was her 16th birthday, and she got into a 22 A. — and I just followed her. 23 car accident that day. 23 Q. How were you doing at this time? 24 Q. I'm sorry to hear that Who was that? 24 A. Nervous. I thought, I have never been in a 25 A. Melissa. 25 big house like that. So I was like, looking around or, 29 (Pages 110 to 113) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by cynthia hopldne (601-051470-2934) b5cb743b-dae6-4bc1-a5eb46350b255754 EFTA00723710 Page 114 Page 116 1 you know. I don't really remember much. 1 remember 1 A. — in the beginning. It didn't like, it 2 stairs and a door that hadlike -- 2 wasn't like she got him ready or you know, like, ho 3 Q. Do you remember what you were nervous 3 didn't know what was going on. it was both of us were 4 about or... 4 in the room. 5 A. No. Just, I don't know. I felt weird. 5 Q. Olcay. 6 Q. Okay. 6 A. He laid on the table. We were acting, I guess 7 A. But we went to this door. it was up the 7 you'd say, we were giving him a massage, and then — 8 stairs. We went inside the door, and it had a massage 8 Q. Okay. 9 table. And I remember like a sauna or some kind of 9 A. — she left the room. And he took off his 10 steam room in there too. 10 clothes and then asked me if I wanted to take off my 11 Q. Okay. 11 clothes. 3.2 A. The, there was another door that led to an 12 Q. Okay. I'm sony. Thank you. That's -- 13 office, not the door that we came in. It was another 13 let me try to go back and make sure I got this 14 door on the other, like, on the other side, whatever, on 14 straight You went there, went in the house. She 15 another wall, that had a door that led to an office. 15 knew where she was going. Went up the stairs, went 16 Because when I was done, that's where I went. it was in 16 into the room where the massage table was — 17 that office, and waited for E.W to finish whatever she 17 A. Yeah, and he was laying on the massage table 18 was doing,. 18 hie he was going to get an actual massage. But she 19 Q. So, the first time you went, did you give 19 walked out. I stayed in. He took off his clothes and 20 a massage? 20 then asked me if I wanted to, or asked me if I was going 21 A. Huh? 21 to take off my clothes. 22 Q. The first time that you went, did you give 22 Q. So, he was akeady on the table? 23 a massage? 23 A. Yes. 24 A. That -- that was supposed to be, I guess you 24 Q. You both walked in? 25 would say. That's how it started. She was in the room 25 A. Yes. Page 115 Page 117 I 1 and he would like, like just put lila:, a towel or 1 Q. Did she stay at all while you were 2 something or like his robe over his butt or whatever. 2 touching him? 3 Laid down and then the next thing I know is he walked 3 A. No. out and he was without the robe. 4 Q. No. Okay. So, she walked in said hi — Q. Okay. I'm sorry. i just want to make 5 A. It, she - sure I'm understanding. So, you went there. She 6 Q. - here she is? went into the room — 7 A. No, she walked in with me. He was laying on A. Yeah, with me. 8 the table like an actual massage. She started rubbing 9 Q. — with you? 9 his back, and then not even like a couple of minutes 10 A. And then she went into the other room or 10 later, not even Illce a minute, she walked out of the 11 whatever and waited. 11 MOM. 12 Q. Okay. 12 Q. Okay. 13 A. And then when I was done, I went into that 13 A. And then he flips over and looks at me and 14 room and she came into when Epstein was and then I 14 starts talking to me like asking me if I want to take 15 don't know, !wasn't in the room, so i don't !mow what 15 off my clothes and whatever. 16 she did. 16 Q. Nobody had said to you that there was a 17 Q. Okay. So the first time you went to the 17 possibility that he may ask you to get more 18 house, though, you did not give him a massage? 18 comfortable? 19 A. It was, it was like you, i mean, he 19 A. Yeah, no one told me that l was going to be 20 Q. That's what I'm trying to understand. 20 taking off my clothes, or any you know, he was going 21 A. Okay. 21. to be touching me or anything like that. 22 Q. She went into the roam and massaged him? 22 Q. And what did you do? 23 A. .look, no, no. We were together. We were both 23 A. Huh? 24 in the room — 24 Q. What did you do then? 25 Q. Okny. 25 A. Once he asked me to take off my clothes, i 30 (Pages 114 to 117) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by cynthia hopkins (601-051.976-2934) beeb743b-dae6.4bc1-a5eb.t6350b265754 EFTA00723711 Page 118 Page 120 1 took off my shin and my bra and my or my pants. 1 1 Q. Did you tell him you weren't comfortable 2 did not take off my underwear. 2 taking off your clothes? 3 Q. Why did you do that? 3 A. I told him I wasn't comfortable taking offmy 4 A. I didn't, I didn't — what take offmy clothes 4 underwear. 5 a not take offmy underwear? 5 Q. Okay. What did he say? 6 Q. No, take off your clothes. 6 A. He didn't say anything. 7 A. Because, I don't know, I mean, I was nervous. 7 Q. What happened after that? 8 1was by myself. I didn't know what to do. You know, I A. He was touching my chest and started 9 didn't know. I didn't feel like I could say yes. Me, 9 masturbating or whatever. And I just stood there froze, 10 I was by myself, hopefully, you know, what was I 10 stuck. I didn't — I think he might have asked me my 11 supposed to do, tell him no and then try to run? I 11 age in between all of that, and that's it. 12 mean, like, you know, I weighed like 80 pounds. I mean, 12 Q. Okay. What happened afterwards? 13 I was terrified. 13 A. After he was done, he went into the sauna or 14 Q. And when she left, why didn't you walk out 14 to the steam shower and went in there, and I got my 15 with her? 15 money out of his robe. And I don't know if he like told 16 A. I was like stuck. I, T didn't, I didn't know 16 me, I don't remember, I don't know if he told me the 17 what to do. 17 money was there. I don't know, it's - 18 Q. Had 13.W. ever touched you before? 18 Q. Okay. 19 A. No. 19 A. But I know when he was done or whatever, he 20 Q. So, you were not worried what she would do 20 got up, went to the sauna andIwent out the room. 21 to you? 21 Q. Pm sorry. You said what? 22 A. No, I wasn't worried about her at all. I was 22 A. And I went out the room. I don't remember 23 worried about him. 23 much. I don't even know if, like, he finished or, if 24 Q. Did he threaten you? 24 what happened. I don't even know what it looked like or 25 A. (Witness shakes head.) He didn't need to. He 25 what he — I don't know. I don't even know if he put Page 119 Page 121 1 was bigger than me, and he was — I was a child, you 1 his towel back on afterwards and went into the sauna. I 2 know. 2 don't, I don't know. 3 Q. Now, he didn't verbally say, if you don't 3 Q. Was this the first time you had seen a man I do this, they will be a problem? 4 naked? A. (Witness shakes head.) 5 A. Was it the first time? No,I was with that 6 Q. Did he raise his voice? 6 one kid before that, but that's it Like I said, the A. No. 7 first time was awkward. I didn't even know what I was 3 Q. Had any other adult ever threatened you or 8 doing. I didn't even know how to touch somebody or 9 hurl you? 9 lace, you know, be intimate with somebody, sol didn't 10 A. No. What do you mean by adult? 10 know. 11 Q Well, you said he was bigger than l was, 11 Q. Okay. Did you go back a second time? 12 so he didn't have to threaten me because, you blow, 12 A. No. 13 I was just already scared. Anybody else ever 13 Q. Did you ever bring anyone else? 14 threaten you as an adult that was bigger? 14 A. Nope. We didn't even talk about it after we 15 A. Other than my parents occasionally telling me 15 left. 16 they were going to whip my butt, I mean, thafs it. You 16 Q. Why not? 17 know. I mean, I had I don't have like big people 17 A. What's to talk about? She wasn't in the room, 18 coming in my face and telling me that if I don't do 18 so why would I toll her about it. She already knew what 19 something for them, they are going to beat me up. I 19 was going to happen. 20 mean, ifs not like that. But I just felt like I was in 20 Q. Meaning, why did you do that to me, or how 23. a lose/lose situation, like — 21 could you do that to me, or you should have known? 22 Q. Did you have a cellphone with you? 22 A. I don't know. It's like I knew, tike, she 23 A. No. 23 knew. I mean, I don't bow. I mean, we just didn't 24 Q. Did you have a purse? 24 talk about it. There was, you know, we just walked to 25 A. I had a purse, but no cellphone, 25 the City Place, caught a bus, and left. 31 (Pages 118 to 121) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by cynthia hopkIns (601-051.978-2934) beicb743b-dae6-4bc1-aSob-16350b255754 EFTA00723712 Page 122 Page 124 1 Q. Did you tell your parents? 1 me if — I think she called me one time and asked me if 2 A. I didn't tell anybody. 2 I wanted to go back, and I like, hung up on her and told 3 Q. Why not? 3 her no or like, you know, like, I even talked to her. I 4 A. What's to tell? I mean, I feel more, like, 4 told her no and hung up. I was just... 5 low and lousy that 1 would even consider to go over to 5 Q. Okay. How do you think this episode has 6 somebody's house like that. Why would I tell somebody, 6 affected you? 7 so then they think ofme low, and 1just... 7 A. I don't know. I mean, getting out of, you 8 Q. Did you think about calling the police? 8 know, the therapist's office, and I went to a after 9 A. The only reason that this is even going on is 9 my program I was — they sent me to Columbia because 10 because the FBI found me. I didn't go looking for this. 10 they said I was trying to kill myself or hurt myself or 11 1didn't even know like that any of this was occurring 11 something. I mean, I've attempted, but it was never 12 until they came to my probation. They was looking for 12 like, you know, had to go to the hospital for it. Never 13 me and then got my address and came to my house. 13 really, it was more like self-mutilating instead of like 14 And I didn't even tell them that at first. 14 suicide. But it didn't happen in my program. It didn't 15 I, I — my, my clad was there, my probation officer 15 even happen around then. It was before then, but I had 16 was there. So I, I was scared to say anything. So, 16 a history ofit, so they sent me to Columbia. 17 a couple of days later -- 17 Q. When was the first time you did that? 18 Q. What, what were you scared of? 18 A. Hurt myself? 19 A. People knowing. I was scared of being 19 Q. Uh-huh. 20 violated for probation. 1mean, I just, you know, I 20 A. I don't know. Like 14. 21 just had my son. 1was scared of losing everything 1 21 Q. Okay. What did you do? 22 worked for. And I had to call the lady a couple of days 22 A. 1 started with cutting my legs because nobody 23 later. And just, I don't know. She had me, she had me 23 could see it. And then I just started doing my arms and 24 tell her the same stuff that -- I've might seen her like 24 covering up or something. 25 twice, maybe three times. She sent me a letter. Told 25 Q. Did it leave scars? Page 123 Page 125 1 me I could contact an attorney if i like, or something 1 A. 1 don't know if you can see. I can still see 2 like that. I don't know. I didn't even, I didn't even 2 it. 3 like go looking for this, you know. I just, I was 3 Q. My apologies. fm not trying to be funny, 4 trying to forget. 4 5 Q. And I don't want to know anything that you 5 A. Right there and right there and right there 6 have discussed with your lawyers, but without 6 and right there. You don't see the scars? 7 getting into those conversations, why did you decide 7 Q. Honestly I don't. I'm having trouble 8 to join the lawsuit? 8 making them out. Like that? 9 A. Because ifs not fair. It's not fair that he 9 A. Yeah. 10 like does this to people, like to little girls. 1, I 10 Q. And there, across — 11 don't even know what 1would do if my son was ever hurt 11 A. And there, yeah. 12 in any kind of way like, you know, any kind of child 12 Q. Okay. 13 abuse, neglect is wrong. And it's not even like, you 13 A. Go all the way down. They kind of went away. 14 know, I was looking for, you know, something. I don't 14 Q. Okay. 15 know. I just, I just felt it was wrong, and I guess I 15 A. Yeah. They are there. That's why I said it 16 had to tell somebody. 16 was never like really that I ever had to go to the 17 Q. Do you want a moment? 17 hospital or lost a lot of blood because it was just more 18 A. No, 1just want to get this done. 1 just want 18 like — 19 to go home. I want to be with my son. 19 Q. It was more just scratching? 20 Q. Did you talk with Jane Doe afterwards and 20 A. Yeah. But I mean, it wasn't good. 21 say why didn't you tell me? 21 Q. What were you using? 22 A. I didn't even go over there no more. I 22 A. Either a razor or, you know, like, my shaven 23 stopped hanging out with them completely. 23 or something. 24 Q. Why was that? 24 Q. How long would you cut for? 25 A. Because E.W. -- afterwards E.W. E.W. asked 25 A. Couple of minutes, maybe a couple of times, 32 (Pages 122 to 125) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by cynthla hot:edits (601.061.976.2934) biScb743b-das6-4bc1-aSeb-f6360b265754 EFTA00723713 Page 126 Page 128 1 and then just sit there. 1 A. (Witness shakes head.) 2 Q. And I apologize, I may have said this, but 2 Q. Have you had any surgeries? 3 what was the point of the cutting? 3 A. No. 4 A. I don't know. I guess to feel something other 4 Q. Not even like a tonsillectomy or anything? 5 than depression and sadness and just, I guess, make sure 5 A. No. 6 Pm alive. I was just so lonely and sad and miserable. 6 Q. Okay. And I know we talked a little bit 7 Q. Over what period of time were you cutting? 7 about this. Were you ever — had a loss of 8 A. From like 14 until before I got in my program. 8 consciousness? 9 Q. So 14 to about 16, I think you said, you 9 A. I fainted once, but that's it. 10 were in the program? 10 Q. Okay. Was that when you had the heat 11 A. Yeah. It was like I was, I think I was 15 11 stroke? 12 going on 16 because I went in March. No, it might have 12 A. Yeah. 13 been 2005. I know it was March, maybe 2006. I don't 13 Q. Okay. But never knocked unconscious, like 14 really know because one of those years, yeah, l stopped 14 that time you were jumped coming home? 15 after 1came after I came through my program. 15 A. No, I wasn't unconscious, no. 16 Q. You haven't cut yourself since the 16 Q. Any seizure? 17 program? 17 A. (Witness shakes head.) 18 A. Yeah, no, I haven't. 18 Q. Okay. Do you have any chronic medical 19 Q. And 1know you said that it wasn't a 19 illnesses like asthma, diabetes? 20 suicide attempt. Have you actually had a real 20 A. No. 21 suicide attempt where you did something with the 21 Q. Any outpatient surgeries? 22 intention of dying? 22 A. No. 23 A. No. 23 Q. Have you ever had an abortion? 24 Q. No. Okay. Did you have the thoughts? 24 A. No. 25 A. Yeah, but never — not to go do it or even 7.5 Q. Ever have any blood transfusions? Page 127 Page 129 1 try. 1 A. (Witness shakes head.) 2 Q. How far did you get? 2 Q. Are you currently taking any medicines? 3 A. What do you mean? 3 A. (Witness shakes head.) Q. I mean, some people have the thoughts, you 4 Q. Not even on birth control pills for the — know, they'd be -- I'd be better off dead. People 5 A. (Witness shakes head.) '5 have the thoughts of, you know, I would do it this 6 Q. What medicines have you taken in the past? way. And then other people get to the point where 1 7 A. One therapist prescribed me Seroquel and 3 have thoughts to do it this way, and they actually Promo. 9 go out to buy means to do it by. How far along did 9 Q. Okay. How long did you take that for? 10 you get? 10 A. Not very long. 11 A. No,; had thoughts but never, you know, like 11 Q. Do you remember the dose of the Prozac? 12 went to go get the bottle of pills and like had them 12 A. No. 13 open and almost down to swallow them, never like that. 13 Q. Do you remember the dose of the Seroquel? 14 I was like, you know — 14 A. I ;mow I used to take one little pink pill in 15 Q. So you never took any action? 15 the morning and then two at night, and then go on Prozac 16' A. No, no, never. 16 in the morning. That's it. Something like that. 17 Q. Did you have a way you would have done it 17 Q. Okay. 18 if you were going to? 18 A. I didn't really like it. They made me feel 19 A. No, I don't think so. 19 weird. 20. Q. Just the thought of not being here 20 Q. How did they melee you feel? 21 was what you — 21 A. Like drowsy, like I didn't want to do anything 22 A. Yeah. 22 or, you know, lazy. Like I guess Prozac was supposed to 23 Q. Let me ask you a little bit about your 23 make me more happy, and it just made it like, you know, 24 medical history. All right. Are you allergic to 24 I didn't feel like doing anything because I was too 25 anything? 25 tired or I was... Y.bt-osJ J./ 33 (Pages 126 to 129) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by cynthis hopkins (601-051-976-2934) baeb743b-dae6-4bc145eb46350b255754 EFTA00723714 Page 130 Page 132 Q. Okay. Were you on both at the same time 1 day, and I only went to her one time. And I think there 2 er did you scan ono and then the other? 2 was another lady. I don't remember, I don't even 3 A. I think I was on both at the same time. I'm 3 remember her name. That person — my program had thel7 4 not really sure. 4 own therapist. I was court ordered a therapist by my 5 Q. Okay. So if I put down possibly both, you 5 probation. And that was the longest I've ever been at 6 think that's more correct than... 6 probation, or at therapy only because it was court 7 A. Yeah. 7 ordered. So, I've never had, like, therapists long 8 Q. Seroquel usually makes people tired. 8 enough to know their name or like know where their 9 Prozac usually actually gives people a little 9 office is at, or stuff like that. 10 energy. So that's why I was wondering if you were 10 Q. So you went to -- it sounds like two or 11 on both at the same time or starting one than the 11 three just one time? 12 other. 12 A. I went, yeah, I went to a couple like one time 13 A. Yeah, that's why, I don't really know because 13 14 I know Prozac was for the depression and then the 14 Q. What age did you start doing that? 15 Seroquel was for like my anxiety or whatever. That's 15 A. Little bit after my accident. It was when my 16 what it was supposed to be for. But for like, you know, 16 mom started to try to take me. 17 when I slept and I had my dreams or like when I was, you 17 Q. Did the car accident happen before Epstein 18 know, on the street and was like freaking out in a car 18 or after Epstein? 19 because I thought we were going to get into an accident 19 A. I think it was after. 20 or something. 20 Q. Do you remember the name of your court 21 Q. How old were you when you were prescribed 21 ordered therapist? 22 that? 22 A. Nibs (phonetic) something. I don't remember 23 A. Like 14, 15 years old. I was, you know, I 23 her last name. 24 didn't really know what it was. My parents didn't 24 Q. Okay. How long did you see her? 25 either, but I know I didn't like the way they made me 25 A. Like a couple ofmonths, maybe like four or Page 3.31 Page 133 1 feel. 1 five months. 2 Q. Did the therapist know about Epstein? 2 Q. Did she help? 3 A. No. I never told anybody. 3 A. She was nice. I was pregnant, so she helped 4 Q. What did the therapist think the 4 me try to work on, you know, becoming a new mom and 5 depression was related to? 5 whatever. 6 A. I don't know because I didn't — I think that 6 Q. Okay. Had you tried Xanax and things like 1 was before I went to my program, so it wasn't like they 7 that before meeting Epstein? 8 knew that I had a ding problem or something. They just 8 A. No. 9 thought, I guess, I was troubled or something. I don't 9 Q. Was there anything — did he have any 10 know because I never really talked to them. 10 scars, tattoos, any deformities? 11 Q. Okay. Do you remember the name of that 11. A. Who? 12 therapist? 12 Q. Epstein. 13 A. No, I remember the place. It's called 13 A. I don't really remember. .1mean, I don't 14 Multilingual or something. It's on Palm Beach Lakes. 14 think he had any tattoos or nothing, but like scars or 15 Q. Okay. How many times did you go? 15 like, you know. 16 A. Couple of times. 16 Q. Any deformities of any kind? 17 Q. Now, the Prozac and Seroquel, I know you 17 A. I don't remember. I know he didn't have no 18 said you didn't talk it long. Aro we talking like a 18 tattoos, but I don't really remember. 19 wed, a month? 19 Q. Were you ever on any other meds beside the 20 A. Maybe a couple ofmonths. I don't really 20 Prom and Seroquel? 21 remember. 21 A. No. 22 Q. Okay. And besides Multilingual, apart 22 Q. I think you had mentioned something about 23 from the program did you see anyone else? 23 Columbia Hospital. What happened there? 24 A. There's was a therapist that, before, I don't 24 A. I was in my program and they took me to court 25 know -- I know there was that one lady that I seen that 25 to by to court order me to that program. And with the 34 (Pages 130 to 133) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by cynthia hopkIns (601-051.976-2934) t)5415743b-dae6.4bc1-45eb-16350b255754 EFTA00723715 Page 134 Page 136 1 program, they don't let you talk to your family tmtil 1 know... 2 you're on like, you know, past your first and second 2 Q. So, were you already in legal trouble by 3 step or whatever in your AA or NA book or whatever. So 3 the time you did this program or... 4 you can't talk to your fatuity until you're — youlmow, 4 A. (Witness shakes head) 5 you're ready to — you know, admit you have a problem or 5 Q. No. Okay. So this wasn't the court 6 whatever. So I was already in there like almost ■ 6 ordered program you did when you were — 7 month, and they were telling me I couldn't talk to my 7 A. No, they — I didn't have, I didn't have a 8 parents about, you know, like them trying to court order 8 court ordered — They tried to court order my program. 9 me to stay in this program and all this other stuff. 9 They tried to court order my program that I was already 10 So, you know, I, I probably — well, I 10 going to, yeah. 11 know I said some things that I probably have 11 Q. Okay. 12 shouldn't, but they took it as my trying to like 12 A. My, but I guess the program or something like, 13 hurt myself or wanting to kill myself and then they 13 you know, has this thing with the judge or, you know, 14 sent me to Columbia. 14 like that, you know. 15 Q. What did you say? 15 Q. Now, I apologize. I thought I miss, I 16 A. I don't really remember. I was angry. I was, 16 thought you said earlier that you were in a program 17 you know, I wanted to go home. I didn't want to be 17 while you were under court order or in detention or 18 there no more. I wanted to see my family so... 18 something? 19 Q. How did you do being kind of held against 19 A. No, no, I wasn't in the program. While I was 20 your will there? 20 in the detention center. 21 A. I, I didn't — I refused treatment_ I just 21 Q. So any program you're referring to is this 22 didn't do what they asked me during the whole month 22 one? 23 was there. So, like, I don't know. 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. And, 'apologize, 'think we called this 24 Q. And this private one that your — 25 program two different names. 25 A. Yeah. Page 135 Page 1 A. Yeah, I don't 1 Q. — parents tried to get you into and you Q. I'm forgetting which one is the right one 2 didn't want to stay? 3 now. 3 A. No. 4 A. I don't remember really. 4 Q. While you were in there, you got angry at Q. Just -- sorry, go ahead. 5 them? 6 A. I think it was something skills or something. 6 A. Yeah. 7 1 don't really remember. 7 Q. You said a few things and then they sent 8 Q. Okay. So you were court ordered to go to 8 you to Columbia Hospital? 9 this? 9 A. Yes. 10 A. Yeah. 10 Q. Okay. 11 Q. Okay. And what was — 11 A. They called the police and had them come get 12 A. Well, no, they were hying to court order me 12 tae. 13 to go to it. My mom -- the program, sane kind of 13 Q. And what happened at Columbia? 14 private program or something. So they told my mom that 14 A. I was there for three days and they released 15 she had to put some kind of down payment of like 5,000 15 me. 16 or like 3,000 or something, so I could go to the 16 Q. Okay. Do you know what they diagnosed you 17 program, and then pay them every month a certain amount 17 with? 18 or something. It was like a $20,000 program and... 18 A. No. 19 Q. Okay. So, this was something your parents 19 Q. Did they -- well, did they give you a 20 were doing to try to get you help? 20 &Tana* 21 A. Yes. 21. A. No. I don't know. They talked to my mom. I 22 Q. Okay. 22 mean, some child socialist or something or social worker 23 A. But they didn't know like how the program 23 or something like that, yeah, social workers talked to 24 worked or nothing. They were just trying to do 24 my morn and — but I don't know what they talked about. 25 something privately instead ofgoing to like, you 25 Q. Okay. 35 (Pages 134 to 137) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Bactionlealty signed by eyntbia hopkins (6Ot-061.978-2934) bacts743b-dae6-4bci-aseb-16360b265764 EFTA00723716 Page 138 Page 140 1 A. She never — I don't think I went to a 1 was because I was, I went to jail and realized that if I 2 therapist with her, like that she paid for after that. 2 keep getting high I was going back to jail. 3 Q. And what happened when you were released 3 Q. Going back to jail? 4 from the hospital? 4 A. Yeah. No, it had nothing to do with that 5 A. I went home and... 5 program. If it wasn't for my probation officer, you 6 Q. Okay. And have you, are you currently in 6 know, and me going to jail, 1probably — and me gettinr 7 therapy or seeing anyone? 7 pregnant, I probably, I don't know where I would be 8 A. No. 8 right now. 9 Q. Do you remember what year the program in 9 Q. And when you were in jail, did they have 10 the Columbia hospitalization was? 10 to detox you or do anything special? 11 A. 2006 or 2005 or something. I don't know. I'm 11 A. No. 12 not really good on dates. They, they have — 12 Q. Do you see any alternative medicine 13 Q. You are doing pretty good. 13 therapists, counselors, acupuncturists, herbalists? 14 A. — paperwork on that program. 14 A. No. 15 Q. Okay. 15 Q. Okay. Do you take any herbal medications? 16 A. They have the book or whatever that I gave 16 A. Unh-unh. 17 them. 17 Q. I'm going to just run a long list of 18 Q. Kind of the workbook? 18 symptoms hem. Just for the sake of time, stop me 19 A. Yeah. It was the rules and regulations and 19 if any of these are positive. All right? 20 how much it was and what the program was called and, you 20 A. All right. 21 know, like we had to wear certain kind of clothing. We 21 Q. Any recent fits, falls, spells, seizures, 22 couldn't look out windows or talk to other people. 22 whirling, twirling, dizziness? 23 Yeah. There's a big booklet. 23 A. No. 24 Q. Was it a faith-based program or... 24 Q. You said you had nausea and vomiting this 25 A. No, it was a do what we say or you don't get 25 morning? Page 139 Page 141 1 to talk to your family until, you know, you finish. 1 A. Yeah. 2 Q. Okay. And are you currently seeing 2 Q. Any problems with your ears, ringing in 3 anyone? 3 your ears, loss ofhearing in your ears, loss of 4 A. A therapist? No. 4 high pitched sounds, low pitched sounds, ruptures in 5 Q. When was the last time you saw a 5 the ear, tympanic membrane or eardrum, bleeding from 6 therapist? 6 your ears. Any problems with your eyes, blurted 7 A. My court ordered one for, for probation. 7 vision, double vision, glaucoma, loss of sight, 8 Q. Okay. 8 tearing, bleeding? Any problems with your nose, 9 A. Which was a 2008 — when I was — no 2007, the 9 runny nose, drippy nose, bloody rose, nasal polyps. 10 ending of 2007 when I was pregnant with my son. 10 deviated septum, sinus infections? Any problems 11 Q. So, you last saw a therapist in 2007? 11 with your lips, gum, tongue or teeth? Any trouble 12 A. Yeah. 12 swallowing? 13 Q. Okay. 13 A. Thrive, I think I need surgery and it was from 14 A. I think I might have seen her a little bit in 14 my mouth from a tooth that was, had a really bad cavity 15 2008, right before he was born, but she -- the went back 15 and a couple ofdays ago it actually — the tooth fell 16 to school for — to get her Doctor, her Master's in 16 out and there's a big hole. And where the tooth is 17 Psychology or whatever. So she stopped being my 17 supposed to be, and it's like an open root, and like 18 therapist and they released me from, you know, their 18 ifs, ifs really nasty. It hurts really bad, and I get 19 care, whatever. They said I was fine. 19 like food, or it does hurt and it hurts really bad. I 20 Q. Did the program help you at all? 20 think I need surgery for them like to cut the gum open 21 A. No. 21 and get the tooth from inside, yeah. 22 Q. Okay. And I was under the impression 22 Q. I don't know a lot about dental surgery, 23 earlier that when you got offdrugs it was because 23 but I, yeah -- 24 of the program. 24 A. Because it's not — you can't see the tooth 25 A. No, no. It was because ofmy probation. It 25 anymore. It's ►ike deep in my gums and it's bad. ar41.0,..112.1.a.aliliqoateasaer. 36 (Pages 138 to 141) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by cynthla hopkina (601-051476-2934) blicb743b-dae6-4bc1-a5ob.16350b255754 EFTA00723717 Page 142 Page 144 Q. And it's painful? 1 some of the hormones and things like that. 2 A. Yeah. 2 A. I don't think so. 3 Q. Thank you. That's definitely one to let 3 Q. And usually people will have like loss of 4 me know. 4 eyesight or start putting on a lot of weight or they 5 A. But other than that, l mean, I think the 5 will have other issues that could be a sign of 6 smoking builds up a lot of mucus in my throat, but, you 6 pituitary problems. 7 know, that's it. And I don't, like, have a hard time 7 A. No. 8 swallowing because like my tongue hasn't swelled up or 8 Q. Okay. Any problems with your blood. You 9 nothing. 9 said you were anemic when you were pregnant? 10 Q. Okay. Any problems with hiatal hernias, 10 A. Yeah. 11 reflux, food intolerance? Any problems or feel like 11 Q. But as far as you know right now are you 12 you got little lymph nodes or golf balls in your 12 anemic? 13 neck, trouble with — 13 A. I don't, I don't, I don't know. I get cold 14 A. No. 14 really quick. Like, I could be outside and like have a 15 Q. Any problems with your heart, murmurs, 15 jacket on and shivering. 16 rubs, gallops — 16 Q. Any issues with night sweats? 17 A. No. 17 A. No. I mean, my husband says I'm hot when I 18 Q. — heart attacks, congestive heart 18 sleep. Like my body is hot, but I don't sweat. It's 19 failures, told you need a valve replacement, had a 19 just, I'm, I guess I'm hot or... 20 murmur? Any problems with your lungs, pneumonia, 20 Q. But you don't wake up and the sheets are 21 bronchitis? 21 soaked? 22 A. No. 22 A. No. In a puddle of sweat, no, no. 23 Q. Any issues with your stomach, besides what 23 Q. I'm just trying to remember where I 24 we have already discussed? 24 finished off. And I hate to, hate to bounce around 25 A. No. 25 with symptoms. Any neurologic problems, motor Page 143 Page 145 1 Q. Okay. My problems with your GI system, 1 problems, trouble with coordination, moving your 2 diarrhea, constipation? 2 hands? 3 A. No. 3 A. No, no. 4 Q. Any problems with your back, scoliosis, or 4 Q. Okay. Anything I haven't asked you that 5 back issues? 5 you think I need to know or forgot to ask? 6 A. I had back problems picking up my, you know, 6 A. No. 7 my son or being like knocked down from like, you know, 7 Q. All right. Okay. How did do with the 8 with him. But other than that, he is like 40 pounds, 35 8 birth of your son? 9 pounds. So he's pretty heavy, you know. It's a strain 9 A. He — it was all right. I mean, it was hard. '10 on my back for, to pick him up. 10 I, there wasn't a, I didn't have a C-section. I had him 11 Q. I just realized, I don't think I asked 11 vaginally. I didn't rip or tear. 12 your son's name? 12 Q. Good. 13 A. His name is 13 A. Or they didn't have to cut me or nothing. 14 Q. Any problems with your kidneys? 14 They had to use like a plunger looking thing to -- 15 A. No. 15 Q. To suction? 16 Q. Any issues with urination, blood in the 16 A. Suction him. Yeah, because he got stuck in my 17 urine? 17 pelvis bone -- 18 A. No. 18 Q. Okay. 19 Q. Any problems with your reproductive 19 A. — and his heartbeat went, his heart rate went 20 organs, any issues with muscles, joints, tendons? 20 down, and so they had to like suck him out or like pull 21 A. Not at all. 21 him out. 22 Q. Any issues with your pituitary, thyroid, 22 Q. Okay. 23 adrenal gland? 23 A. Oh, he had a bowel movement in my stomach. So 24 A. Pituitary, what's that mean? 24 it was like green and gross, and 1 had to like suck it 25 Q. It's a gland up in your head that controls 25 all out of his lungs or his throat or whatever because I hadriandaseAW 37 (Pages 142 to 145) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by cynthia hookIns (601.051-976.2934) bikb743b-doe4-4bc145eb463606266754 EFTA00723718 Page 146 Page I 1 think — 1 Q. — a few years after. You're not less 2 Q. Right 2 than or not dramatically more than? 3 A. he got it in his mouth or something. 3 A. No, no. I bounced right back. 4 Q. Meconium or something they call it? 4 Q. Okay. When we were talking earlier, you 5 A. I don't know. He didn't have no problems 5 used the phrase depression. I was just wondering if 6 afterwards. Like he didn't have to stay in the hospital 6 you could tell me what depression means for you 7 longer or nothing. 7 and — 8 Q. Okay. How are you doing with bonding with A. What it means to me? 9 him? 9 Q. Uh-huh. 10 A. It's great. Ifs fine. 10 A. I would say, hire, stuck in a rut, like in a 11 Q. Okay. You smiled a little bit when I said 11 sad state ofmind. Like that you don't want to do 12 that so -- 12 anything or live life or, you know, be around friends or 13 A. Yeah. We have fun. 13 family or whatever, you know. Do anything. I mean 14 Q. Good. I know sometimes after people have 14 depressed like. 15 a child they can have what they call postpartum 15 Q. Okay. So stuck in a rut, sad state of 16 depression. Did you have any issues with that — 16 mind. How long do you think you felt that way for? 17 A. No. 17 A. A while. I mean before, before I met Aaron, 18 Q. — or anything more significant than the 18 I, I don't know, I guess you could say I didn't have — 19 baby blues or... 19 you know, like if I had a boyfriend, if I got one, it 20 A. No. 20 didn't really last tomb actually, you know, like even 21 Q. Was there any effect on your mood with the 21 be an actual couple. So I think I didn't have really 22 pregnancy? 22 good things with guys. They were just like, you know. 23 A. During the pregnancya-- 23 I didn't have good relationships with men 24 Q. During or after. 24 or, you know, Iliad all right with friends but like, 25 A. I was sick the whole time, so I was like 25 I didn't get along with too many girls because — Page 147 Page 149 1 irritable and like, you know, not very nice you could 1 DR. HALL: We probably need to change the 2 say because I was big and fat and, you know, sick, so 2 tape. Come in. 3 Q. Okay. 3 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Sony for the A. — but I don't think normal or like 4 interruption. I just need to change the tape. 5 abnormal or nothing. 5 DR. HALL: Do you want to take a break 6 Q. Okay. What was your weight before your 6 because - pregnancy? 7 JANE DOE NO.6: No, just let it — a A. Same. I was like 95 pounds or something. 8 (Off the video record from 4:22 p.m to 9 Q. Okay. And during the pregnancy? 9 4:24 p.m.) 10 A. I was 120, 25, something like that 120 I 10 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: You're all set, Doctor. 11 think. 11 DR. HALL: Okay. Thank you. 12 Q. Okay. 12 JANE DOE NO.6: But I had some troubles 13 A. So, I gained like 25 pounds. 13 with lite, you know, I don't know, guys would 14 Q. And then what are you doing now? 14 like tell me that, you know, they like me or 15 A. Nothing. 1 don't exercise or nothing. I have 15 whatever. And then I find out they have like 16 been the same weight since. 16 some girlfriend or somebody they're talking to, 17 Q. So you're back to 95? 17 and l have a problem with, you know, with a 18 A. Yeah, about 18 girl. 19 Q. Okay. 19 I think that's what most of what my fights 20 A. It's been a while since I have been on a 20 were about was like, you know. 21 scale. 21 DR. HALL: Okay. 22. Q. Okay. I guess what Pm asking is kind of 22 JANE DOENO.6: Me trying to, like,1 23 the weight you were before is kind of what you've 23 guess, find that person to share something 24 gone back to — 24 with. I guess that's what I was looking for 25 A. Yeah, yeah. 25 because I didn't -- 1& 38 (Pages 146 to 149) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by cynthie hopkins (601.061476.2934) beeb7431)-dasiAbc1-aSeb-16350b255764 EFTA00723719 Page 150 Page 152 1 BY DR. HALL: 1 it's not that we don't love each other. its that, you 2 Q. Okay. So you were looking for somebody 2 know, like I just, I feel like sex has gotten lace, you 3 and you thought you had a few leads — 3 know, like, it becomes more of like, you know, hey, 4 A. Yeah. 4 let's; do you want to do it or what? Or you know, like 5 Q. And then fad out they had girlfriends or 5 instead of being like a spontaneous type of, you know — 6 other friends? 6 I don't know. It's not that I don't love him or 7 A. Yeah. I didn't really have too great a, you 7 anything, or that I'm looking for something else. It's 8 know, relationships with guys. That's why I never just like I'm not that interested in it, you know. Like 9 really did anything with them is because, you know, it 9 I had a long day and like, I'm just, you know, Pm 10 was like, you could never really trust them, trust what 10 tired. I don't, you know, feel like doing it You 11 they would say or what would happen or, you know. 11 know. 12 Q. And how do you and Aaron get along with 12 Q. When you are intimate, are you able to 13 all that? 13 enjoy it — 14 A. Now we're a lot better. I mean, Aaron is like 14 A. Yeah. 15 my best Mend. Like I can tell him anything and we 15 Q. — or just kind of — 16 hang out all the tint. Say, like we have friends that 16 A. No, l can. There's times, yeah, I can enjoy 17 like, you know, I hang out with the guy's girlfriend and 17 it 18 he hangs out with the guy or whatever. And then they 18 Q. Does he enjoy it? 19 have their kids or whatever and they hang out with our 19 A. Yeah. 20 kids. 20 Q. If everything was going perfect and your 21. But you know, it's more like a family, you 21 mood was good and you weren't too tired from the 22 know, like a play date kind of thing, you know. Me 22 little one and things like that, how many times a 23 and Aaron are more like our own friends. Like, you 23 week would you like to be intimate with your 24 know, we hang out with each other and, you know, I 24 husband? 25 don't — I've never had that problem with him lying 25 A. Probably every night if I could, if I could Page 151 Page 153 1 to me or, you know, like and he will always take 1 get around to it, if I don't fall asleep on hint 1 2 care of me, me and my son, so, you know. He's a 2 don't know, if I had my own, like if I had a job and I 3 great dad. 3 don't think we would even, you know, probably do it, if 4 Q. Any concerns that he may be having affairs 4 I didn't, you know, if I wasn't able to put Al to 5 5 sleep and get dinner ready. Because, you know I have to 6 A. No, no, never. 6 do all that when I got home. 7 Q. Strange question, but do you love him? 7 So, you 'mow, like I guess it's better 8 A. Yes, very much. 8 than it could be, because, you know, it could be Q. Does he love you? 9 worse. We could not see each other at all and like 10 A. I believe so, yeah. 10 work all the time and only see each other at night 11 Q. I don't mean to get too personal here, but 11 and fall asleep, you know, together. 12 how often are the two of you physically intimate? 12 Q. Now, working on road crews, I know they 13 A. I guess, I'm not lice that much into sex, you 13 sometimes do nighttime construction. Is he on a day 14 would say. Like twice maybe three times a week if that, 14 shift or a night shift? 15 if that's on a good week. 15 A. He's on a day shift. 16 Q. Okay. 16 Q. Day shift. When do you think you had 17 A. I guess that's why I don't have no fetishes or 17 your, kind of, first episode of depression? 18 like experience like, you know, all that. I don't even 13 A. I don't know. Around 13. 19 know like, what a fetish or a dildo would be because, 19 Q. Okay. How do you place that? What's your 20 you know, I'm kind of like, you know, like an old 20 marker for that? 21 married couple, like, you know, let's get this over 21 A. I,1 started getting high when I was 13. 22 with. Letter, Letterman is going to start later. Let's 22 Q. Okay. 23 burry up. We've got to get some ice cream and stuff. 23 A. I think that's when, like, I started to 24 You know, like, you know, can I watch TV while we're 24 change, or whatever. 25 doing this. You know, like. I don't know if it's like, 25 Q. Okay. And did you have like discrete 39 (Pages 150 to 153) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. lasetronleMy signed by cynthb hopldna (601-051476-2934) bileb743kodae6-4bc1.05ob46350b265764 EFTA00723720 Page 154 Page 156 1 periods, or would you have times where you felt 1 A. When I was getting high, I didn't really eat 2 normal? 2 that much, but I think that was just because of the 3 A. I guess there's times I felt normal. 3 drugs, not because I didn't want to eat. 4 Q. Okay. How long would the bad periods last 4 Q. What's the lightest weight you ever got 5 for? 5 to? 6 A. In the beginning it was, you 'mow, not that 6 A. Huh? 7 long, but then they started getting, you know, more 7 Q. What was the lightest weight you got to? 8 frequent. And like, you know, I become deeper in a rut 8 A. Like 80 pounds. 9 that like, you know, deeper stuck that I couldn't pull Q. Okay. And you weren't trying to lose 10 myself out. 10 weight, and this wasn't like an eating disorder or 11 Q. Okay. Would they last longer than a week? 11 behavior -- 12 A. After — not at first, but after a while. 12 A. No. 13 Q. Okay. 13 Q. -- where I was intentionally restricting 14 A. They were, they lasted a while. 14 how much I ate or trying to exercise more — 15 Q. When did this start lasting longer than a 15 A. No. 16 week? 16 — or throwing up or taking laxatives 17 A. Wheal, I first started trying thugs. 17 18 Q. So, it sounds like the drugs really 18 A. No, no. 19 affected your mood? 19 Q. Feelings like your thoughts were going 20 A. Yeah. I don't know if k was drugs that 20 slower than usual or anybody ever comment you were 21 affected it or the drugs that I was taking drugs to try 21 talking less than usual or slower than usual? 22 to cover up whatever I was feeling, and [just got 22 A. No. I know my parents would complain about 23 myself more into a, you know -- I don't know. 23 my, my behavior and, you know, my school work or coming 24 Q. Okay. How old were you when it was 24 in late. They didn't really catch onto me getting high 25 lasting like two weeks? 25 at first It took them a little bit. Page 155 Page 157 A. When I was like 14. I don't know. 1 Q. Okay. How is your relationship with your 2 Q. Okay. When you were in a rut or a bad 2 brit? 3 mood, how was your sleep? 3 A. We don't have a relationship. 4 A. I don't know. Not well,Iguess. But, I 4 Q. Okay. Even when you were younger the two 5 mean, if I was messed up. I could probably sleep through 5 of you didn't get along or... 6 the whole night. 6 A. No. 7 Q. Okay. But if you weren't taking anything? 7 Q. Okay. Did he have similar issues or... 8 A. No, I probably couldn't fall asleep. 8 A. No, he is a, more like gothic and kind of like 9 Q. Okay. Were you enjoying anything or 9 lost, you could say. I'm not... 10 having anything that was like fun for you? 10 Q. Okay. Listens to a lot of Cure albums? 11 A. (Witness shakes head.) 11 A. Huh? 12 Q. Were you feeling guilty about anything or 12 Q. Listens to a lot of Cure albums? 13 having any feelings of worthlessness? 13 A. I don't know what he listens to. Its just, 14 A. I don't know. I guess worthlessness. 14 you bow. I don't listen to it. 15 Q. How was your energy? 15 Q. Okay. What type of music do you like? 16 A. I didn't have much. 16 A. I like punk rock and RMS. I like — I don't 17 Q. Okay. How's your concentration? 17 really like the, you could call it, jungle jams, like 18 A. I guess that's where you could say like my 18 these rappers talking about all these chicks booties and 19 school work started to go down. You know. I don't 19 all these guns they have and all this — 20 know. 20 Q. You do nice that or — 21 Q. Anybody ever get concerned you had 21 A. No. 22 Attention Deficit Disorder? 22 Q. — you don't like that? Okay. 23 A. No, nobody ever mentioned it. 23 'A. No, I don't, I don't like that at all. No, I 24 Q. Any changes in appetite or significant 24 don't. 25 weight gains or weight loss? 25 Q. Okay. 40 (Pages 154 to 157) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by cynthia hopkins (601-061.976.2934) 484:6743b.dae6-4bel-a5ob-f6350b255764 EFTA00723721 Page 158 Page 160 A. I lie more 1 A. Yeah, I know, but I just, you knovv 2 Q. So, you don't like gangster rap? Q. There's cookies and stuff out that. 3 A. No, no, none of that. I like Old -- like Old 3 A. Yeah, but I just — yeah, I just didn't want 4 Sublime and Nirvana and like — 4 to throw up is my problem. 5 Q. Alternative? 5 Q. I do appreciate that, so... 6 A. Yeah, like, you know. 6 A. You know, I didn't want to lose my lunch. 7 Q. Okay. And during this period of time when 7 Q. Toss your cookies. Okay. 8 you weren't sleeping well and energy was low, you 8 A. Yeah. That was my big issue. 9 know, school work was going downhill, were you 9 Q. So, over the last month, how has your 10 having suicidal thoughts? 10 sleep been? 11 A. Maybe. I don't really know. I don't want to 11 A. It's good. 12 say, you know,1 did when I didn't. I don't really 12 Q. How much are you getting a night? 13 know. That was a long time ago. 13 A. Fall sleep around like 9:00 or 10:00. Wake up 14 Q. How are you feeling right now? 14 like 7:00 or 8:00. I mean, illcould sleep longer, l 15 A. I'm anxious. I want to go home. I'm like, I 15 would. It's not that Pm depressed. I just like to 16 have such a headache from crying, ifs not even funny. 16 sleep. 17 I just really need to go. 17 Q. And do you enjoy doing things? 18 Q Okay. 18 A. Yeah. 19 A. It's been a while. I'm surprised that I 19 Q. What, what do you like to do? 20 haven't, you know, been complaining to leave all day, 20 A. Me and my son, he has a little car that we 21. 21 take him on, like a paddle wheels car. We drive around 22 Q. Thank you. I appreciate that. I know 22 in that. He has this little push car that I push him 23 this is a long day. 23 around in and go to the park. He loves watching Blues 24 A. Yeah. 24 Clues, so we watch a lot of Blues Clues and sing. You 25 Q. And we're coming into the home stretch 25 know — Page 159 Page 161 1 so... over the last month, two months, how have you 1 Q. Any issues with guilt or... 2 been doing? 2 A. Huh? 3 A. Everything is all right. 3 Q. Any issues with feeling guilty about 4 Q. Doing all right? 4 anything or self-worth over the last month? 5 A. Trying to get ready for the holidays, you 5 A. No. 6 know, Santa is coming, Christi/his, you know. 6 Q. Okay. In general how is your energy level 7 Q. Okay. You just seem kind of a low energy 7 doing? 8 right now. 8 A. It's good. I have enough energy to run around 9 A. Well - 9 and chase him all day, and then, you know, once Pm able 10 Q. And I don't know if Mars just because of 10 to sit down though, I don't get back up. You know, once 11 the situation — 11 Pm relaxed 12 A. Yeah 12 Q. Once you're down, you're down? 13 Q. bad morning or... 13 A. Yeah. 14 A. I was thinking, because I have been here all 14 Q. How is your concentration doing right now? 15 day and Pm kind of tired. 15 I mean, not today but for the last month. 16 Q. Okay. 16 A. Yeah, ifs good. 17 A. You 'mow, I haven't had much to do, so it's 17 Q. So, you're like able to read a newspaper 18 like... 18 article and follow it or do you go back and have to 19 Q. So, what I'm seeing now isn't kind of how 19 re-read? 20 you've been doing for the last week or two? 20 A. I don't really read the newspapers. I started 21 A. No, no, not -- 21 reading the Twilight book, you know, Twilight. They 22 Q. Okay. 22 just came out with the movie. So, yeah, I started, 23 A. I haven't eaten all day. 23 after I seen the second movie Saturday, I started with 24 Q. Now, I have tried to feed you, and we've 24 the book. So, l mean, I'm doing all right with it. I 25 offered you breaks. 25 mean, there is some-- Pm still at a seventh grade 41 (Pages 158 to 161) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. EJectronically signed by cynthia hopkins (601.051.976.2934) bah743b-dae6-4bc1-aSob-16350b265754 EFTA00723722 Page 162 Page 164 1 level, so sometimes l have to go back and read 1 A. No. 2 sometimes, you know, what I just read so I can 2 Q. Did you ever have any issues where you 3 understand the word that I just said or, you know, 3 find yourself going off and buying more than you 4 because, I mean, some words I kind of get caught up, 4 needed or buying silly, useless things or — 5 yeah. Like the question, and there's a couple of those S A. I do that now. I like go to the grocery store 6 that are blank because like seldom or something, I don't 6 and say I'm going to spend S50 and spend 100. You know, 7 know what that word means. 7 I mean, lido that most places. I don't think its like 8 Q. Okay. 8 abnormal like I have got some kind of - 9 A. So I wasn't Ifire, and l didn't want to say I 9 Q. So, it's not like a pattern where you -- 10 was something, but it meant that I wasn't, or you know 10 A. No, no. 11 how that — I didn't know. 11 Q. -- just kind of, I'll need a bottle, but 12 Q. Okay. 12 Ili buy a three-some because they were on special? 13 A. So, I get my little difficulties in my words 13 A. Yeah, yeah, but you know, I know I wasn't 14 but, you know, I will go back and leave the sentence 14 supposed to spend that much, but they were on sale, so 15 open and leave that one blank and try to figure out what 15 some day we might use them. 16 that little thing is. 16 Q. Okay. But ifs not like I went out and 17 Q. How has your appetite been except for 17 bought six pairs of shoes? 18 today? 18 A. Yeah, no, no, I don't like have no kind of 19 A. Ifs good. I love to cook. I love different 19 like shopping problem. 20 foods and trying different stuff and stuff. 20 Q. And ever have trouble keeping track of 21 Q. So, I know this is a hypothetical, but 21 your thoughts or just keep bouncing from one idea to 22 tomorrow do you think you're going to have something 22 the other? 23 to eat? 23 A. No. I have trouble keeping track of where I 24 A. Yeah. 24 put stuff. 25 Q. Or have dinner later tonight? 25 Q. Why do you think that is? Page 163 Page 165 1 A. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If I, I'm cooking, so yeah, 1 A. I don't know because I'm always into something 2 we'll be having dinner. 2 else, like — I forget where I put my phone because I 3 Q. How is the speed of your thoughts? Are 3 have to go over here and clean him up because he just 4 they going too fast, too slow? 4 finished eating, or late at night where I put my keys 5 A. No. 5 because I just came in the house and dropped them 6 Q. You're talking and moving okay? 6 somewhere and had to go out again, or you know. 7 A. Yeah. 7 Q. Have you ever had any periods where you 8 Q. Have any suicidal thoughts? 8 thought people could read your mind? 9 A. No. I think I'm over that part ofmy life. 9 A. No. 10 Q. Good. Have you ever had the opposite of a 10 Q. Had special powers? 11 depression, where you felt really, really good, 11 A. No. 12 maybe too good? 12 Q. Okay. lust asking. Where people could 13 A. No, I don't think so. I don't think I was 13 literally physically put thoughts into your head or 14 overly excited about — 14 take thoughts out of your head? 15 Q. Any periods where you talked faster than 15 A. No, no, no. 16 usual or people commented that you seemed to be 16 Q. Ever see anything or hear anything that 17 thinking faster or talking faster or moving faster? 17 other people haven't seen or heard? 18 A. No. 18 A. No. 19 Q. Fresh weekend, started a lot of projects, 19 Q. Ever been concerned that somebody was out 20 but it was hard to stick with just one and you kind 20 to get you or was going to hurt you? 21 of bounced around? 21 A. No. 22 A. No. 22 Q. Do you have any patterns or rituals that 23 Q. Any periods of your life wbem you were 23 you do? 24 hypersexual or hyper-religious; one sense for a 24 A. No. 25 woman and one for a guy or — 25 Q. Do you ever get things stuck in your head 42 (Pages 162 to 165) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by cynlhia hopkIns (13014614713-2934) bieb743b-dae8-4bc1-a5eb46360b2155754 EFTA00723723 Page 166 Page 168 1 like tapping or counting or — 1 Q. Okay. And you don't think you have had an 2 A. No. 2 experience like that? 3 Q. Do you have any phobias? 3 A. No, no. While we're driving, I always, like 4 A. What do you mean like phobias? 4 ifI feel like, you know, like the car next to us is 5 Q. An irrational fear, something you're 5 getting too close, or you know, I always either get onto 6 afraid of even though you know you probably 6 the lane that, the next lane that I can get into, or you 7 shouldn't be. 7 know, l just Aaron to slow down, or you know. 8 A. I'm afraid of bugs. I'm afraid of natural 8 Q. Okay. So, you pay attention to what's 9 disasters. Pm afraid of the dark. I'm afraid of woody going on around you on the road? 10 areas. 10 A. Yeah, yeah. 11 Q. Why is that? 11 Q. Do you think you do that more than other 12 A. I don't know, because I just think somebody is 12 people? 13 going to pop out, or I don't know. I don't know. It's 13 A. Yeah. IthinIc I'm kind of a worrywart. I, I 14 dark. It's scary. It's, you know it's — 14 we were talking about going on vacation to go see -- 15 Q. At nighttime going through the woods. 15 well, not really a vacation. My great aunt is like 80 16 A. Yeah. 16 and she lives in New Jersey and we're thinking about 17 Q. Okay. Is this something you've always 17 taking my son up there. But I have like this worry that 18 kind of had or -- 18 if something happened, it's too cold, you know, or we're 19 A. Yeah. 19 somewhere, you know, where we, we don't live or we don't 20 Q. -- recent things? 20 know, none of our medical papers, no, if he gets sick 21 A. No, it's something I've always had. Like I 21 we're going to have to — 22 have to turn on the lights before I walk into a room or 22 Q. Yeah, it's a long flight up there? 23 something and make sure nobody is inside, whenever. 23 A. Yeah. It's a drive. 24 Q. Do you ever get a. silly thought or a 24 Q. Or a long time on the interstate? 25 disturbing thought in your head that you can't get 25 A. Yeah. That's another thing, but,1mean, Page 167 Page 169 1 rid of? 1 like, I get like worries about like what could happen, 2 A. No. 2 like you know. I don't let him play out in the street 3 Q. We were talking a little bit about 3 because what could happen, you know, or I don't know. 4 anxiety. You said you're kind of nervous at times 4 Q. Okay. And what do you mean, play out in 5 and today is a nervous day. Have you ever had a 5 the streets? What are some of the thoughts in which 6 panic attack? 6 you think could happen? 7 A- No. 7 A. A car could come by. He could be like, we 8 Q. Okay. Do you know what I mean when I say couId be playing in the driveway or in the front yard, 9 panic attack? 9 and he could run in the street. Or I don't, we don't 10 A. Like loss of breath or like, you feel like, 10 play no where near the street. It's always the backyard 11 you know, you're stuck, or you can't like kind of 11 or a fielded area because I don't want him nowhere near 12 claustrophobic kind of like, you know. 12 our street. 13 Q. Okay. 13 Because he has this thing of running away 14 A. I don't know. 14 from me. And like if the door opens, he runs for 15 Q. I mean, usually folks will say I feel like 15 the door. It's like, he sees somebody or he sees 16 I'm going to die, fm feeling overwhelmed, my heart 16 something, he runs for it. He don't walk. He runs. 17 is racing. 17 Terries me sometimes when he is like, you know, 18 A. Yeah, like you can't breath. 18 runs for the door or something. People leave the 19 Q. I'm having trouble breathing, you — 19 front door open and there are stairs there and he, 20 A. You feel like there is something on your 20 like could fall down and I get really scared about 21 chest, you know, you're like in a small area, like you 21 that 22 can't get out 22 But, I don't know if I could say -- I 23 Q. Okay. Not always associated with 23 rry more than my husband does. I'm like, you 24 claustrophobia, but some people can feel that. 24 ve, I'm just worried. I mean, I'm his mom. I'm 25 A. (Witness nods head. 25 posed to worry, I guess. But, you know, little 43 (Pages 166 to 169) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. 3IIIIIIIIIIII ENc n y s gns y eyn hopkins (601-051.976.2934) b5ob74 EFTA00723724 Page 170 Page 172 1 stuff, l don't !mow, like -- 1 with anything, honestly, whether it has to do with my 2 Q. Do you worry about anything that involves 2 parents or my drug use or what happened to me or you 3 Mr. Epstein? 3 know, I don't -- if i had that figured out, I probably 4 A. No. I mean, there was, the time there was a 4 wouldn't be here. 5 private investigator coming to, around my old job or 5 Q. Where would you be? 6 whatever, but that was the only time I ever had that 6 A. I don't know, if lived in some perfect place 7 problem. 7 on some sandy beach, and, you know ifl had like the, 8 Q. Okay. 8 you know, the answer to all my problems that I've had, I 9 A. I was just afraid that people were going to 9 probably wouldn't be here. Do you know what I'm saying? 10 find out and my parents were going to know, and I'm 10 I mean, I don't, I don't know. 11 like - 11 Q. Okay. Do you think you use drugs because 12 Q. And this was before they had found out? 12 of Mr. Epstein? 13 A. No. This was afterwards. This was like a 13 A. I think, yeah, it might have a possibility. 14 month ago. It was like in August or something, yeah, 14 les possible. 15 September. I don't know. It was recently that there 15 Q. Do you startle easily? 16 was a, a couple months ago a private investigator came 16 A. Hum? 17 to my old job looking. 17 Q. Do you startle easily? 18 Q. At the insurance agency? 18 A. Like get scared? 19 A. Yeah. 19 Q. Yeah, jumpy? 20 Q. Okay. But you weren't working there at 20 A. Yeah, sort of, like come out of nowhere, like, 21 the time? 21 you know. 22 A. No, I was not working there at the time. 22 Q. Well, more than the average person? 23 Q. Okay. Gotcha. Okay. And at the time you 23 A. No. I mean — 24 said you were worried about your folks finding 04 24 Q. And do you have periods where your heart 25 things like that. Have you ever had any periods of 25 races or you have trouble catching your breath or... Page 171 Page 173 1 time where you felt like you were back at the house 1 A. Yeah, I could I have times but I mean, like I 2 or re-living the experience? 2 went to jury duty August and I felt like my chest was 3 A. When I talk about it, it makes me feel like 3 going to come, or Ifice, you know, my heart was going to 4 that weird same, like, you know, still kind of feeling. 4 come out of my chest. But I don't know if it was But I don't feel like I'm there again or like, I will be 5 because, I was, you know, in a government building. I 6 or something. I just feel like stuff, like I don't - 6 don't know. 7 you know. 7 Like I guess nervous around police 8 Q. Did you have dreams after seeing 8 officers only because, you know, like, my violation 9 Mr. Epstein? 9 and all, you know. The law, it's the trouble with, 10 A. Huh? 10 you know, the law I had in the past, you know, so I 11 Q. Did you have bad dreams atter seeing 11 get kind of nervous. But which I was there for jury 12 Mr. Epstein? 12 duty. It's not like I was there for my own court, 13 A. No, I don't think so, no. I don't !mow. 1 13 or, you know, my own ticket — 14 was — I don't remember, a while ago. 14 Q. Right. 15 Q. Okay. 15 A. -- but I was nervous. 16 A. I don't really remember much about that 16 Q. You were still nervous? 17 incident, because that's where I was, or what was around 17 A. Yeah,1 was still —I thought my heart was 18 or you know. 18 going to come out of my chest. 19 Q. Okay. Do you think you have a mental 19 Q. I keep writing on the back of the paper so 20 illness related to Mr. Epstein? 20 I can flip through some of these now. 21 A. No. 21 Okay. So, on a scale from one to ten, 22 Q. I'm sorry, that was no? 22 with one being the most depressed you've ever been, 23 A. I dein know, no. 23 five being normal, ten being the best you ever felt, 24 Q. No. Okay. 24 too good, over the past month where would you say 25 A. I don't know what any of my past has to do 25 you fall? 44 (Pages 170 to 173) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by cynthia hopldns (801-051478-2934) belcb743b-dae6-4bc1-a5ob-f6360b255754 EFTA00723725 Page 174 Page 176 1 A. Like a seven. 1 A. Because that's the name I was supposed to look 2 Q. Seven. Okay. And during those periods of 2 for when I came down Australian. 3 time where your felt down and depressed, where do 3 Q. Okay. I think there's a Paychex sign on 4 you think you fell? 4 the side of the building. 5 A. Like a three, maybe a two. I don't know. 5 A. Yeah. 6 Q. Okay. And in terms of anxiety, different 6 Q. But the actual name is like One Centerlake 7 scale here. So one being absolutely no anxiety. 7 Center something. 8 Ten being the worst anxiety you can possibly 8 A. I know I seen the Paychex sign on the side of 9 imagine. Over the past month where would you say 9 the building or something like that. 10 you've fallen? 10 Q. Okay. Yeah. There is one on the side. 11 A. Like a five. So, because since I got my 11 So, that's right. Can you tell me today's date? 12 license, I'm becoming like more, you know, trying to — 12 A. November 23rd, 2009. 13 my anxiety is only more when I drive or when, you know, 13 Q. Okay. Day of the week? 14 in the passenger seat of a car. It's more of when I get 14 A. It is Monday. 15 like really, you know, anxious. You know, like, I feel 15 Q. Okay. Season? 16 like something is going to happen. 16 A. It's fall. 17 Q. Okay. And today how has your anxiety 17 Q. All right. Can you remember three words 18 been? 18 for we, penny, dog, and blue? 19 A. Just nervous because! was on my way here. 19 A. Penny, dog, and blue. 20 That's it 20 Q. Ulhhuh. Remember those. I will ask you 21 Q Okay. And on a one to ten scale or just 21 for them again later. All right. Next one is a bit 22 today backward? 22 harder. A lot of people have trouble with it. Just 23 A. Like an eight or a nine. 23 give it your best shot. 24 Q. Eight or nine. 24 Can you count backwards from 100 please by 25 A. Because I thought I was going to, you know. 25 sevens? Page 175 Page 1 1 The whole way here until Belvedere and Australian, I was 1 A. No. 2 fine. And then I hit Australian. And I was like, ta, 2 Q. Please try. 3 ta, ta, ta. All you could hear was my foot hitting the 3 A. From 100? 4 pedal. You know. 4 Q. Uh-huh. 5 Q. Okay. Let me grab something here. I'm 5 A. 93. 6 going to ask you some questions or — some of them 6 Q. Okay. 7 are easy. Some of them are a little harder. Just 7 A. SC 8 give them your best shot. I may have misplaced my 8 Q. Okay. 9 nice little sheet of paper. Okay. Do this the old 9 A 79. 10 fashioned way. 10 Q. Okay. 11 Can you tell me where you're at? 11 A. 72. 12 A. Where? 12 Q. All right 13 Q. Where you're located. 13 A. 65. 14 A. 250 South Australian Avenue. 14 Q. Thank you. That's good. See people can 15 Q. Okay. City and state? 15 do it They always are worried they won't be able 16 A. West Palm, Florida. 16 to. Can you spell the word world for me? 17 Q. Okay. Do you know the county? 17 A. World? 18 A. Palm Beach. 18 Q. Uh-huh? 19 Q. Okay. And do you know what floor of the 19 A. W-o-r-1-d. 20 building you're in? 20 Q. Can you spell that backwards? 21 A. Fifteen. 21 A. D-1-r-o-w, I think. 22 Q. Okay. Do you know the name of the 22 Q. Uh-huh. This is a — 23 building? 23 A. Pen. 24 A. Paychex or something like that. 24 Q. These are - 25 Q. Yeah. Why do you say that? 25 A. Glasses 45 (Pages 174 to 177) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by cynthia hot ins (601.061.970-2934) bacb743b-daa6-4bc1-aSeb-16360b266764 EFTA00723726 Page 178 Page 180 1 Q. All right. Can you repeat the following 1 numbers? How about nine, three, six, five, one? 2 phrase, please: No ifs, and's, or but's? 2 A. Nine, three, six, five, one. 3 A. No ifs, and's or but's. 3 Q. 'Okay. 4 Q. Good. Can you take this piece of paper in 4 A. One, five, let's see, those numbers in the 5 Your right hand, fold it in half and set it on the 5 beginning, in the middle kind of. Three and nine, 6 floor next to you on your left? Thank you. 6 mean, I don't 7 Do you remember those three words? 7 Q. Okay. 8 A. Penny, dog, and blue. 8 A. I don't remember. Those little numbers kind 9 Q. Uh-huh. Can you read this to yourself and 9 of get me. 10 do as it says? Thank you. 10 Q. Get a little confused in your head. 11 I'm not an artist. I don't expect you to 11 A. Yeah. 12 be either, but can you copy that design for me? 12 Q. Okay. Why do we refrigerate food? 13 A. Ifs a little higher. Something like that 13 A. Why do we refrigerate? 14 Q. Thank you. Can you write a sentence for 14 Q. Uh-huh. 15 me, please. Anything you like. 15 A. So it'don't go bad. 16 I'm ready to go home. 16 Q. Okay. What would you do if you found a 17 A. Yeah. 17 cell phone just lying in the street? 18 Q. Okay. How is an apple and an orange 18 A. Fin(' the number and try to return it. 19 similar? 19 Q. Okay. Can you tell me, can you name the 20 A. They are both fruits. 20 presidents starting at the recent one and going 21 Q. A boat and a bicycle? 21 backwards? 22 A. A boat and a bicycle? They both move. 22 A. BarackObama. 23 Q. Okay. A mouse and a tree? 23 Q. Okay. 24 A. A mouse and a tree? 24 A. George Bush. 25 Q. 1.1h-huh? 25 Q. Okay. Page 179 h'dye I. H A. Cat. 1 A. Bill Clinton. 2 Q. First time I've gotten that answer. 2 Q. Okay. 3 A. I don't even think a mouse and a tree would 3 A. Wasn't it, it was George Bush's father, 4 even — 4 brother another Bush or something after. Q. — be similar? Okay. 5 Q. Okay. I think it was his father? A. The only similarity is a cat. 6 A. Yeah, after, before Clinton or something. Q. What's the expression people who live in 7 That, I don't think I know farther from there. 8 glass houses shouldn't throw stones mean? 8 Q. Okay. Can you name five U.S. cities for 9 A. That people with their own problems shouldn't 9 me? 10 be talking about others. 10 A. Five U.S. cities? 11 Q. Okay. MI right. Fm going give you a 11 Q. Uh-huh. 12 couple of mutters here. I'm going give them to you 12 A. Detroit. 13 to forward. 'would like you to repeat them and 13 Q. Okay. 14 then give them back to me backwards. Okay. Six, 14 A. Los Angeles, Chicago, Miami, and New York 15 eight, five, two, seven. 15 City. 16 A. Six, eight, five, two, seven. 16 Q. Pm sorry. What's that? 17 Q. Uh-huh. 17 A. New York City. 18 A. Seven, five, two, six. No. It was seven, 18 Q. New York City. 19 five, two, eight, six, right? 19 A. Some reason I was thinking Boise, Idaho, or 20 Q. Close I think you got the five and the two 20 something Isn't that, it's Idaho, right, Boise, Idaho? 21 mixed up. 21 Q. Yeah. 22 A. Oh, okay. 22 A. Yeah. 23 Q. As I said, some, it's okay to miss a few 23 Q. I think Boise is a city. 24 of these. And some of these arc a little harder 24 A. Yeah. 25 than others. Do you want to by a second set of 25 Q. Some, some may argue with that, but 46 (Pages 178 to 181) PROSE COURT REPORTING. AGENCY, .INC . Electronically signed by cynthia hopkIns (601-051.976.2934) b6c0743b- se - EFTA00723727 Page 182 Page 184 1 think it's a city. Can you tell me something you 1 has his nap around three or four. And during his nap, 2 have heard on the news recently or something going 2 I'm making dinner or finishing up whatever I didn't do 3 on with current events? 3 during the day like laundry or whatever. I try to do 4 A. I was actually watching the news yesterday and 4 stuff while he's asleep because it makes it a lot easier 5 it was that, that little girl that her mom sold her for 5 for me. Because Pm not, you know, trying to get him 6 drugs or money or whatever, she sold her for, some kind 6 out of whatever he is doing over in his own mom or you 7 of prostitution and she ended up raped and killed or 7 know, walking around the house trying to grab other 8 whatever. And her mom has got, she's pregnant with 8 stuff. 9 another child and has a child that's older than the one Q. Okay. What do you usually do for dinner? 10 that she just gave up or whatever. 10 A. I mean, I usually make whatever I make it 11 Q. Okay. I think she's up in North Carolina? 11 from, most of the time from scratch, from fresh 12 is that the one? 12 vegetables and meat or whatever. Most of the time I 13 A. I'm not sure where ifs at. I think it's 13 have to make my son something else because he doesn't — 14 something like that. it's everywhere. 14 he is kind of a picky eater. 15 Q. Yeah. And then been hearing that story on 15 Q. Okay. 16 the radio bother you, or the news or TV. 16 A. So, like I will make chicken and, you know, 17 A. It, it bothered me. But I mean, like, you 17 macaroni and cheese. Hell only eat the Macaroni and 18 know, what am I supposed to do? I mean, there's 18 cheese, or you know, I will have to make him rice or 19 every other day I hear about some kid going missing. 19 something or some kind of potato or, you know. Like he 20 And it just makes me old my kid a lot closer. You know 20 likes that for some reason, he does not eat meat. I can 21 what I mean? 21 get him to eat fruits, but vegetables rarely. I have to 22 Q. Did your experience with Epstein give you 22 mix it with food. And i have to like trick him. So, he 23 a different perspective on that story? 23 eats pasta. I can get him to eat spaghetti with the 24 A. About kids and abuse? 24 sauce and stuff, but he will pick out like the chunks of 25 Q. Uh-huh. 25 tomatoes and the onion. He will just, like, throw it on Page 183 Page 185 1 A. Yeah, I mean, I don't, I don't know if it's 1 the floor. lie wants nothing to do with it. And I could 2 just because of that or because I became a mom or 2 try but he will tell me no. He knows how to say it so 3 whatever, but, 'just, I just don't believe in hitting a 3 he tells me no. After dinner - child or, you know, any kind of. 4 Q. Yeah. Q. Okay. 5 A. is another bath for him. A. Neglect or abuse. I just — kids shouldn't 6 Q. Mar. have to go through stuff like that. You know. They are 7 A. Cleanup whatever big mess that he made in his 3 young and innocent and, you know, they shouldn't have to 8 little area, his high chair and the table and the floor 9. have those kinds of pains or problems or that, 9 and, you know, sometimes Aaron helps, you know, like 10 especially if it's their parents doing it to them Is 10 getting him, giving him a bath or whatever. But if I 11 wrong. But I just, you know, l think ifs more since I 11 have — if he is giving him a bath, I'm getting him 12 became a mom than my own situation, but i mean, it could 12 clothes to wear, a diaper, putting his towel down on his 13 have something to do with it. 13 bed, yeah. And then after we just hang out. Put him to 14 Q. Okay. What do you do in a typical day? 14 sleep. He is asleep by like eight, eight or nine. No 15 A. Make breakfast, clean up after breakfast, 15 later than nine. He has a strict bedtime. 16 clean whatever mess from the night before like dishes 16 Q. Okay. And how are you doing with keeping 17 or, you know, that living room or kitchen being dirty. 17 up with cleaning and things like that? 18 i clean the house which I make breakfast, me and my son 18 A. it's good. 19 either go outside or, you know, play a game or 19 Q. Okay. Are you able to do the gtuv ty 20 something. He takes a nap usually after he plays for a 20 shopping? 21 little bit, takes a nap at like 11. During his nap I 21 A. Yeah. 22 make lunch. After lunch he gets a bath. !clean up, 22 Q. Cooking, sounds likes you are doing okay 23 you know. 23 with that? 24 Q. Okay. 24 A. Yeah. 25 A. Whatever. You know. We play some more. He 25 Q. Ilan you use public transportation if you 47 (Pages 182 to 185) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by cynthia hopkIns ($014514178-2934) b546743b-dae0-4bc1-aSeb-f6360b265754 EFTA00723728 Page 186 Page 188 1 need to? 1 A. Myself. I don't get to do like my hairlike 2 A. If yeah, if I need -- well, not with my son. 2 nonnal women, or you know like to look all nice. I 3 Q. Okay. Why not with your son? 3 don't get that, because by the end of the day, its just 4 A. Because I wouldn't trust bringing him onto an 4 going to be the same way. It's always coming back down. 5 actual moving vehicle without reliable, without a car 5 So I don't even bother. It's not that, you know, I 6 seat, him being strapped and seated, and you know — 6 don't — I don't think it's that I don't want to. It's 7 Q. Okay. 7 that I don't feel like it at all. I don't care to do it 8 A. Stuff like that. But by myself I would have 8 because, I mean, it's not — you know, who am I 9 no problem, but you know, if I had my son, I wouldn't. 9 impressing? Like I have been with the same man for 10 Q Okay. So you have used like the Tiff-Rail 10 three years so I mean, like, my son could care less. He 11 or the buss or the train? 11 pulls my hair. You know he don't really, you know, care 12 A. Yeah. 12 what my hair looks like. So, after that's the only, you 13 Q. Okay. Going out of the house in general? 13 know, thing with my — I just don't do my hair. I don't 14 A. Huh? 14 do it at all. 15 Q. Are you able to go out of the house in 15 Q. How about showering and things like that? 16 general? 16 A. Oh, yeah, I shower. I mean, the shaving part, 17 A. Yeah. 17 I don't know how often I get to that, but I mean. 18 Q How are you with traveling? 18 Q. Okay. 19 A. As in traveling like out of state or — 19 A. !just keep on pants and long sleeve shirts. 20 Q. Yeah? 20 Q. How has your sleep been recently? 21 A. I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't do planes 21 A. Good. 22 and I don't do highways, so I barely, rarely ever 22 Q. And are you able to use a telephone 23 travel. 23 directory or the Internet or... 24 Q. Why not planes? 24 A. Yeah. 25 A. God, don't, since 91i I haven't gotten on a 25 Q. And I notice you have one of the I -phones Page 187 Page 1.8 1 flight. 1 or something? 2 Q. Paying bills? 2 A. Yes. Christmas present from Aaron. 3 A My husband pays bills, yeah. I, I bring 3 Q. That's nice. 4 the -- I write the checks, and you Imow, makes sure they 4 A. Yeah. It actually was. I have been waiting 5 are paid, but he is the one who brings the money. 5 or this thing forever. I haven't had a phone in so long 6 Q. You mean, he earns the money but you 6 so — 7 actually write the checks? 7 Q. How are you with using the post office? 8 A. Yeah. 8 A. It's goad. I actually FedExed something to 9 Q. Put them in the envelopes? them a couple of days ago. It was Friday. 10 A. He brings home the bacon and I cook it, pretty 10 Q. Okay. 11 much. 11 A. So, they are very -- it was UPS or FedEx or 12 Q. Okay. And have you guys missed payments? 12 something like that that I know I sent it to them. 13 A. No, no. No, I have never — since we have 13 Q. How are you with social activities? 14 lived in this house, we have never been late on any kind 14 A. I don't go out. I don't do like the night 15 of payment or — 15 scene or, you know, like I don't, I don't like hanging 16 Q. How are you with maintaining the 16 out really. 17 residence? 17 Q. Okay. Why is that? 18 A. Good. Aaron does most of the yard work, but I 18 A. I don't know. I mean, I don't like what kids 19 have a little garden in the front and a little rose bush 19 are more interested in doing. Like I don't like 20 that I water in the mornings while -- 20 partying or being around crowds of people or, like, you 21 Q. Is it like a flower garden or vegetable 21 know. I don't know, I'm just — 22 garden? 22 Q. Okay. You're just not into the party 23 A. It's a flower garden. 23 lifestyle anymore? 24 Q. Okay. How are you with taking cam of 24 A. No, not at at 25 myself? 25 Q. Do you want to be? 48 (Pages 186 to 189) IIIIIIM El n y cyn PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. hopithIll (601451476-2934) 95497439-t ac EFTA00723729 Page 190 Page 192 1 A. No, not, not really. I mean, like what am I 1 A. Yeah. 2 missing out on, that, you know, that I haven't already 2 Q. And do you interact with the landlord? 3 tried, you know. 3 A. Yeah, 1, as a matter of fact, l took her to 4 Q. Are you able to relax and enjoy yourself. 4 she's a friend of mine. Her son is a, had a daughter 5 A. Yeah. I wonder where that thing went. I 5 around the same time i had my son. 6 don't even know if they got that UPS thing. I had the 6 Q. Okay. 7 tracking number with something they give me. 7 A. So, yeah, !hang out with her — well, her 8 Q. "They" being your attorneys or someone 8 son's girlfriend and, you know, like my son hangs out 9 else? 9 with her daughter and whatever, but, yeah — 10 A. Yeah, as my, I sent them a FedEx or I went to 10 Q. And how is hanging out or being out in 11 UPS a couple days — it was Friday. They needed 11 public or, you know, okay, going to like the mall 12 something from me. 12 and being around strangers? 13 Q. Again I don't need to know. 13 A. Yeah, I just, I don't like crowds of people. 14 A. Yeah. it was just paper. !just wanted to 14 Q. Okay. Is that something new or is that - 15 see when was the last time I went to, when was it or was 15 A. No. That's always been like that. I just 16 it supposed to be there. 16 don't like big crowds of people. You know. I can be in 17 Q. Last week or two? 17 the mall, but I don't like to get stuck in film, you 18 A. Yeah, I went. 18 know, a big crowd of people or like, you know. 19 Q. Okay. How do you get along with family 19 Q. So, you wouldn't like a protest or 20 members? 20 something would not be your cup of tea? 21 A. Good. 21 A. I don't think, no. 22 Q. And friends, are you able to still talk 22 Q. All right. And in general in your 23 and maintain friendships? 23 day-to-day things, taking care of the little one, 24 A. Yeah, l have got some friends. I have got a 24 cooking dinner, things like that, how is your 25 couple of girls I talk to. But I mean, I don't really 25 attention? Page 191 Page 193 1 hang out with them. They have their own, like, life and 1 A. It's good. 2 doing their own stuff with their kids or whatever. 2 Q. Concentration? 3 Q. Do you see anybody else who's been 3 A. It's fine. involved with the Epstein issue? 4 Q. Okay. Persistence, meaning you can pick a A. No. I don't even talk to those people no 5 task, stick with it, get it done? 6 more. !just want to hang out with my family or my 6 A. Yeah. 7 cousins or something. 7 Q. And pace, you ;mow, going at a steady pace 8 Q. Okay. How are you with your neighbors? 8 while working on something? 9 A. My neighbors are my parents on one side, and 9 A. I can, l guess, I mean -- 10 the other neighbors, they are all right. I mean, I have 10 Q. Okay. 11 a problem with their cat. I don't — cats. 11 A. It's okay. 12 Q. You got the blue ph bull? 12 Q. Okay. How do you deal with stress? 13 A. I didn't get him because of it, get her 13 A. I listen to music or go in my room and just 14 because of it. But they have, they think that cats are 14 like relax for a second, try to sit down and re — like, 15 supposed to be outside or something. 15 you know, like refocus on what i was supposed to be 16 Q. Okay. 16 doing. And you know, I mean, like rejuvenate myself, 17 A. But they let their cat run around all day and 17 make sure like I can, you know, get my mind right and 18 it will be under my house because I have a trailer. And 18 everything, you know, settled before i go out and snap 19 i mean, it's really annoying to be climbing on my car 19 so -- 20 and stuff. But, yeah, I just, I don't like their cat. 20 Q. Generally do you handle stress well? 21 I don't like cats. My son's allergic to them. So is my 21 A. All right, I guess. 22 husband, so I just don't like cats. Cats are not -- 22 Q. Okay. How are you with making decisions 23 they are all allergic to cat hair and stuff like that. 23 under stress? 24 Q. Can you go to a grocery store, make small 24 A. Making decisions, l'm, I'm usually the one who 25 talk, do all right being in the line? 25 decides everything but — 49 (Pages 190 to 1 9 3) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by cynthia hopkins (601.061.976.2934) 136cb743b-dae6-413c145•b46350b265754 EFTA00723730 Page 194 Page 196 1 Q. Okay. 1 yell at people when they cut me off, but it doesn't go 2 A. I don't know about under stress only because, 2 to like me trying to chase them down or getting out of 3 you know, like I probably need a second opinion or 3 my car like, you know. 4 somebody to like see what they thing about it but other 4 Q. Okay. I know you're not actively working 5 than that, fine. 5 but how do you think you do with working with 6 Q. But you generally are, you make decisions, 6 supervisors or peers? 7 you're a decisive person? 7 A. All right, I guess. When I was training at 8 A. Yeah, in my house, yeah. I make most of the 8 Little Caesars, I was fine, but they just didn't give me 9 decisions. 9 the job. So it wasn't like, you know, I had bad 10 Q. How are you with attendance? I mean, I 10 workmen's skills or whatever. I just was too short for 11 you're not actively working. but i mean if you 11 the register they told me. 12 needed to be somewhere on a daily basis, do you 12 Q. They could use a stool if they wanted to 13 think you could make it or do you think you would be 13 but, I guess — 14 late or — 14 A. Yeah. I asked them that. They - 15 A. No, I would be there. 15 Q. Okay. 16 Q. Okay. How are you with keeping schedules? 16 A. it would have gotten in the way. 17 A. Good. 17 Q. What's your attitude towards the future? 18 Q. Okay. Finishing things you start? 18 A. All right. 19 A. If ifs stuff to do with the house, like i 19 Q. What do you see yourself doing in the next 20 started a scrapbook a couple months back, and I didn't 20 five to ten years? 21 finish it. But 1 mean stuff like that, like stuff that 21 A. I world like to go to culinary school and open 22 has to do with me, I don't really finish too much. 22 like my own mom-and-pop diner. 23 Q. Okay. 23 Q. You like cooking? 24 A. But like, to do with the house or, you know — 24 A. Yeah. 25 Q. Okay. So something that needs to get 25 Q. I think I forgot to ask earlier, was DCF Page 195 Page 197 1 done, gets done? ever involved with your family? 2 A. Yeah, it gets done. 2 A. One time they were called. They, my mom had a 3 Q. But a project kind of for yourself -- 3 problem with them, but that's it. It was like they did 4 A. Yeah, its a little — 4 a little investigation. Like they, they said my parents 5 Q. it may get placed — 5 were getting high or something. So then they took some 6 A. Yeah. Its a little — 6 urine and then they came back one time to ask me how I 7 Q. in the background. 7 was doing, and that's it. I think that's where the 8 A. Yeah, it's a slow but i get around to it investigation ended or whatever. 9 sometimes. 9 Q. Okay. Anyone close in your life besides 10 Q. How are you with handling criticism? 10 the boyfriend we talked about pass away? 11 A. I'm all right, l guess. I try - i make new 11 A. I found my grandma in her house. She had a 12 foods so I, you blow, i get people to try it. It 12 heart attack 13 doesn't always come out as great as I'd like it. So, I 13 Q. How was that for you? 14 don't really like, you know, care about it. It doesn't 14 A. Pretty hard. i have never seen a dead body 15 really bother me. 15 and you know, other than lames, but you know. 16 Q. Do you have any problems with anger or 16 Q. How old were you when it happened? 17 rage? 17 A. I was 16 when my grandmother died. 18 A. Not, no, no — I may be angry, but it's not 18 Q. Again when you lose a loved one, I mean, 19 like I start breaking stuff or punching things or you 19 it's maybe something you never forget but how long 20 know, saying very mean things. I mean, I get mad but -- 20 do you think it greatly affected you for? 21 Q. You get angry but you don't lose control 21 A. Maybe like a month, because, you know, I know 22 or do things you regret? 22 my grandma, like as she — we took, my mom took good 23 A. Yeah, no, not at all. 23 care of her. You know, she like — my grandma didn't 24 Q. Any issues with road rage or 24 have like very good school skills. She didn't know how 25 A. No, not really. I mean, i don't —I kind of 25 to like use a phone to write her name or nothing. So, • • 50 (Pages 194 to 197) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by Cynthia hopkins (601-061.978.2934) bact)743b-dae6-4bel-a6eb46360b255764 EFTA00723731 Page 198 Page 200 I my morn was like really good with that, take her grocery 1 g I've heard he's had pictures in his house. 2 shopping, get her bills paid and make sure her Social 2 Did you recognize anybody else in any of the photos? 3 Security check was cashed and make sure she was fine and 3 A. No. I don't remember if there was any I had everything she needed. 4 pictures or anything, no. But when she passed, you know, it was sad, 5 6 Q. Okay. And you never brought anyone else but you know, we, we all knew that we did everything 6 there? / we could, you know, to make her life, you know, as 7 A. No? peacellil as it could be, you know, as pleasurable as 8 Q. No. All right. 1 think all I have got 9 it could be. 9 left to do is some questionnaires. They are paper 10 Q. Okay. Anything I haven't asked you that 10 and pencil or pen. 11. you think! should know or any additional comments 11 A. Okay. 12 or anything you want to say? 12 Q. If you would like to take a little break 13 A. No. 13 before we start, or if you just want to get to them, 14 Q. And just to recap real quick with Epstein: 14 whatever works best for you. 15 You went the one time. You think you were Just 15 A. Just get it done. !just want to need to see 16 around 13,14. You went into the room, massaged 16 if dinner is done. 17 him. You don't remember exactly what happened in 17 (Jane Doe No. 6 made a telephone call.) 18 terms of where he touched you? 18 BY DR. HALL: 19 A. He touched my chest,lIcnow. 19 Q. I hope you did catch the l ove you part 20 Q. Touched your chest. 20 at the end. 21 A. Yeah. 21 A. Yeah, I heard it, but !just want to get this 22 Q. Okay. You felt uncomfortable, felt that 22 done. I thought it was going to be over a long time 23 ifyou said no that he may get violent. Did you 23 ago. I thought it was going to be done by 5:00. I'm 24 ftel your life was in danger? 24 sorry that I am, you know — this is ridiculous. 25 A. I don't know. I mean, if I felt like he was 25 Q. 1 think we're in probably about the last Page 199 Page 201 1 going to get violent, I, I don't know. I don't want to 1 30-to-40-minute part, so as soon as we get these two 2 say yeah, but I don't know. You know, I was scared. 2 things done -- 3 Q. And scared or, scared of him not scared of 3 A. You've had the following serious accidents. 4 people fmding out? 4 What does that mean, serious accidents, as in like my 5 A. I was scared of him. 5 car accident or 6 Q. Okay. People asked you to go back. You 6 Q. Yeah, whatever you think fits best there. 7 said no. You didn't want to tell the police because 7 I mean, some people fell off their bike and had to 8 you didn't want it to be found out 8 be hospitalized — 9 A. Yeah, I didn't even, like, you know, really 9 A. I never had any broken bones, nothing 10 know where I went anyways to even tell anybody. You 10 Q. Okay. 11 know. Like I didn't know the house or the street or, 11 A. So this should be easy. No, illness. No 12 you blow. 12 surgeries. Did either parent die during -- 13 Q. Did you know his name? 13 Q. This questionnaire, some of the questions 14 A. There was a, on the desk it had like, you 14 that were, were redundant, the ones like that you 15 know, his nameplate. I remember the rust name but not 15 can go through quickly. 16 the last name until the FBI came up to me and like asked 16 A. All right. Well, this is ridiculous, like -- 17 me, and you know. 17 MS. ARBOUR: We're going to take a break 18 Q. Okay. 18 fora second. 19 A. Showed me. I didn't many remember. 19 (A brief recess was held and the test was 20 Q. Do you know anybody else who went there 20 continued.) 21 besides E.W. and S.R? 21 DR. HALL: Are you done? 22 A. Jane Doe, no. 22 JANE DOE NO. 6: Yeah. I need to go, 23 Q. Okay. And while you were there did 23 like — 24 anybody take pictures of you that you know of? 24 MS. ARBOUR: Well, if you're not done, we 25 A. No, I don't think so. 25 have another 35 minutes left so... 51 (Pages 198 to 201) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. ec roma y s tined by Cynthia honks (!01.061-9764934) b5cb743 EFTA00723732 Page 202 1 JANE DOE NO.6: Are you serious? 2 MS. ARBOUR: Yes. CERTIFICATE 3 2 JANE DOE NO.6: Even though I got hoe 3 4 at STATE OF FLORIDA 9:30? 4 5 COUNTY OF PALM BEACH MS. ARBOUR It's eight hours of tape. 6 JANE DOE NO.6: Oh, my God. 7 6 MS. ARBOUR That's why we said 6:30. So, 7 I, Cynthia Hopkins, Registered Professional 8 if you're done, then let's get this done. 8 Reporter and Florida Professional Reporter 9 , State JANE DOE NO.6: I don't. He didn't give Florida at large, certify that I was authorized to of 10 me this paper. I don't know if I was 10 and did stenographically report the foregoing 11 supposed - 11 proceedings and that the transcript is a true 12 MS. ARBOUR: Okay. If you're done with 12 and complete record of my stenographic notes. 13 this, let me go get him. Just sign this. 13 Dated this 18th day of December, 2009. 14 JANE DOE NO.6: My babysitter is abou 14 15 t to, yon know, like cuss me out. Like I have 15 16 no choice. I have filled out the same 16 cs(siu As 17 questionnaire like three times. This is like Hopkins, RPit 18 ridiculous. 17 19 DR. HALL: Thank you. This is the 18 20 questionnaire. Some of the questions are 19 21 redundant. The ones like that, you can go 20 22 through quickly. 21 23 JANE DOE NO.6: All right. rm telling 22 24 you like this is ridiculous. I am just going 23 25 to fill this out and not even worry about it 24 25 Page 203 1 I need to go like my son. 2 (The testing was concluded at 6:31 p.m.) 3 MS. ARBOUR: Are you ready? 4 JANE DOE NO.6: Yeah. 5 (The examination was concluded.) 6 7 8 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 52 (Pages 202 to 204 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGE sigma by cynthia ItopkIns (601 NCY INC. -051476-2934) 1,5O)743 no -4bct-aSeb-16350b255754 EFTA00723733