EFTA01077565

Page 1 MEETING HELD BEFORE SPECIAL MASTER ROBERT CARNEY IN RE: IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE 15TH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT IN AND FOR PALM BEACH COUNTY, FLORIDA Complex Litigation, Fla. R. Civ. Pro.1201 CASE NO. 50 2009CA040800XXXXMB AG JEFFREY EPSTEIN, Plaintiff, vs. SCOTT ROTHSTEIN, individually, BRADLEY J. EDWARDS, individually, and L.M., individually, Defendants. DATE TAKEN: Tuesday, March 15, 2011 TIME: 10:05 AM - 12:35 PM PLACE: SEARCY DENNEY SCAROLA BARNHART & SHIPLEY 2139 Palm Beach Lakes Boulevard West Palm Beach, Florida 33409 Lee Lynott, Registered Merit Reporter Registered Professional Reporter Certified Shorthand Reporter Hi-Tech/United Reporting, Inc. 1218 SE 3rd Avenue Fort Lauderdale, FL 33316 United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077565 Page 2 1 2 3 APPEARANCES: 4 FOWLER, WHITE, BURNETT, P.A. BY: LILLY ANN SANCHEZ, ESQUIRE 5 JOSEPH ACKERMAN, ESQUIRE CHRISTOPHER KNIGHT, ESQUIRE 6 One Financial Plaza - 21st Floor 100 Southeast 3rd Avenue 7 Fort Lauderdale, Florida 33394 8 FARMER, JAFFE, WEISSING, EDWARDS, FISTOS & LEHRMAN, 9 P.L. BY: BRADLEY EDWARDS, ESQUIRE 10 425 N. Andrews Avenue - Suite 2 Fort Lauderdale, Florida 33301 11 12 SEARCY DENNEY SCAROLA BARNHART & SHIPLEY BY: JACK SCAROLA, ESQUIRE 13 2139 Palm Beach Lakes Boulevard West Palm Beach, Florida 33409 14 15 ALSO PRESENT: 16 MARTIN WEINBERGER, via telephone 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077566 Page 3 1 THEREUPON, 2 (The following meeting took place): 3 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: We've got, it looks 4 like, two matters right now. I have some 5 suggestions, but I'm certainly open to 6 suggestions. One, we are meeting to take a look at the 8 privilege log and see whether we have problems 9 with the privilege log; and if we have 10 problems, what needs to be done to correct the 11 problems. Two, we have a Request for Sanctions 12 and we need a resolution on the Request for 13 Sanctions. 14 It seems to me that probably the first thing 15 on the agenda, because it certainly would play 16 into either one, is a determination: Do we 17 have a problem with the privilege log? And if 18 so, what's the problem and what is there to 19 correct it? So, why don't we begin with that. 20 MR. SCAROLA: Before we get underway with 21 that specific business. On the record, I want 22 to renew our request to a stipulation that you 23 be appointed as Special Master in the State 24 Court proceedings. 25 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: Response? United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077567 Page 4 1 MR. KNIGHT: At this time, let's see where 2 all this goes. We haven't brought that under 3 consideration with our client. We need to speak 4 with him. 5 MR. SCAROLA: Well, that request has been 6 made repeatedly over an extended period of time 7 and I think it is clearly an indication of the 8 bad faith of Mr. Epstein that has been -- 9 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: Actually, I believe 10 that plaintiff had actually written a letter and 11 agreed to that quite sometime ago. That was 12 actually in one of the responses I think by Mr. 13 Ackerman. 14 MR. KNIGHT: Well, obviously, we've had 15 these requests out since last July. They are 16 properly before Judge Rey and properly before 17 you at this point. It is not a decision that we 18 need to make today. We believe we have good 19 grounds on these TIG objections. It is close to 20 what should have been accomplished over the last 21 six, seven, eight months now. And so, we note 22 Mr. Scarola's comment for the record. 23 We want to address the two issues that are 24 here today and we can address those other issues 25 at a later time. United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077568 Page 5 1 MR. SCAROLA: And it is our position that 2 those issues cannot be properly addressed unless 3 and until there is a State Court ruling with 4 regard to the discoverability of the information 5 that has been requested which appropriately must 6 proceed any requirement that a privilege log of 7 any kind be submitted. 8 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: What I would 9 suggest, I'm viewing the determination of or the 10 presentation of me as a Special Master in the 11 State Court can be divided up into either 12 initially yes, no. If the answer is yes, we 13 still don't have duties yet within the State 14 Court. 15 Ultimately, it seems to me that probably 16 the issue at this point, I don't think anyone 17 I'm looking back on Mr. Ackerman's letter. I 18 think that the letter had pretty much indicated 19 a copy of this would certainly go to Judge 20 Rey. Actually, I believe that part of the 21 decision-making process in that letter was to 22 Judge Rey or, excuse me, to Judge Crow. 23 I don't think anyone is really disputing 24 particularly that Judge Crow need be involved in 25 some fashion or another because he is the United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077569 Page 6 1 presiding judge over the case. 2 And so, these are things that historically 3 there have been agreements, but we're not 4 necessarily seeing fruition on the agreements. 5 We get an agreement and that seems to be kind of 6 the last we hear of it. 7 But I'm not necessarily sure that I agree 8 with what Mr. Scarola did. Right now we have to 9 have a resolution as to what role Judge Crow 10 would take vis-a-vis this matter as opposed to 11 Judge Rey. But it seems to me it's easy enough 12 to at least get to a stipulation that at least 13 both are in play somewhat. It seems to me it's 14 pretty hard to determine that Judge Crow isn't 15 in play if he's the presiding judge. 16 MR. KNIGHT: We just don't like creating 17 delay by that for Judge Rey of which I think the 18 different machinations that come from this 19 proceeding that's been -- 20 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: I'm not saying any 21 delay -- 22 MR. KNIGHT: We're not saying you are. If 23 we entered into that stipulation now, I think we 24 would do it right before Judge Crow, we would 25 lose any momentum that we have right now for United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077570 Page 7 1 Judge Rey. We want to get on to the actual 2 issues, the same ones we've been asking for. 3 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: I agree completely 4 on that. But I'm, again, not necessarily sure 5 that we have a particular problem. The reason 6 I'm saying that is when this went in front of 7 Judge Crow, Judge Crow, basically, washed his 8 hands of it and said it's in front of the 9 Bankruptcy Court. Let the Bankruptcy Court 10 decide it. It looks like that's exactly what's 11 going to happen. 12 The only issue that I'm seeing right now 13 with respect to Judge Crow is there aught to 14 be something in there that Judge Crow ratifies 15 what the Bankruptcy Court judge does. Otherwise, 16 we're left hanging in the wind. Whatever 17 happens here is not binding at all on the State 18 Court judge. The State Court judge can do 19 whatever he wants. 20 MR. SCAROLA: Respectfully, and maybe we're 21 saying the same thing but in different ways, 22 Judge Crow expressly ruled that he will make a 23 determination as to what is discoverable in the 24 State Court proceedings; that he deferred to 25 Judge Rey for purposes of Judge Rey determining United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077571 Page 8 1 anything that was pending in the Bankruptcy 2 Court without that having any binding impact 3 upon his decisions with regard to what is 4 discoverable in the State Court. 5 The representations were made to Judge Crow 6 at the time that he made that ruling that there 7 was an independent basis upon which the 8 discovery was being sought in the Bankruptcy 9 Court, that is, that it was not only a State 10 Court subpoena that was issued to the Trustee, 11 but that there were independent discovery 12 requests that were made in the bankruptcy 13 proceeding upon which Judge Rey was proceeding. 14 Now, I don't believe that to have been 15 accurate, but those are the representations that 16 were made to Judge Crow. And on that basis, 17 Judge Crow said Judge Rey can do whatever he 18 wants to but I, Judge Crow, am deciding what is 19 discoverable in my case. That's where that 20 stands. 23. SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: Which I think he 22 absolutely has the authority to do. I have 23 indicated from the very outset, because it is a 24 State Court action and the final arbiter of that 25 State Court action is Judge Crow, the one who is United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077572 Page 9 1 really the best one to resolve this in my view 2 is and always has been Judge Crow. 3 Judge Rey is doing it. Judge Crow has 4 deferred to Judge Rey. All I'm interested in 5 doing right now is putting Judge Crow in the 6 loop in a fashion where Judge Crow can agree or 7 disagree with whatever my findings are as a 8 Master. 9 Now, unless and until I'm appointed as a 10 Master in the State Court, he can't do that. 11 And as I say, that leaves us hanging in the wind 12 at that point. I don't think he can on his own 13 simply sua sponte say, I'm adopting the findings 14 of the Special Master. I think that would 15 create all kinds of appellate issues if we did 16 that. 17 MR. SCAROLA: Nor do I think that the 18 plaintiff should be in the position of waiting 19 to see what your rulings are and then deciding 20 whether the plaintiff wishes to stipulate to 21 those rulings as a recommendation in the State 22 Court. 23 The time to make that decision is now. And 24 if they don't choose to make it, they don't 25 choose to make it. But I want the record to be United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077573 Page 10 1 absolutely clear that we are offering to allow 2 your rulings to be binding as rulings of the 3 Special Master in the State Court proceeding as 4 well as the Bankruptcy Court proceeding. We're 5 willing to go so far as to -- 6 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: Let me backup for 7 just a second, because it's the "binding" that's 8 the word that's causing a little bit of a 9 problem for me. 10 MR. SCAROLA: I understand and I was about 11 to address that. 12 (Telephone Rings) 13 (WHEREUPON, an off-the-record discussion 14 was had). 15 MR. SCAROLA: The stipulation that we are 16 offering is that you serve as Special Master 17 in the State Court. We go beyond that and we 18 will agree that we will waive any appellate 19 rights that we might have, including appellate 20 rights to the Circuit Court judge, and allow 21 your rulings to be binding within the State 22 Court proceeding. They can accept all or any 23 portion of that stipulation or reject it in its 24 entirety. 25 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: I'm not necessarily United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077574 Page 11 sure I'm understanding precisely which way 2 you're going. What I'm understanding the role 3 is and where I see the problem right now, 4 ordinarily, once I make my various findings and 5 recommendations, I submit them to the judge who 6 can give them a thumbs up or a thumbs down. 7 The judge, generally, in the absence of an 8 objection is pretty much bound by what I do. 9 If we have an objection, the court, of course, 10 rules on the objection. 11 The difficulty that I'm seeing right now is, 12 at the moment we're only going to Judge Rey, 13 which means that -- And Judge Crow has said, I 14 don't care what Judge Rey does. It's my 15 decision. We end up with that problem right 16 there. If we put Judge Crow in the loop, we 17 still have a problem and the problem -- 18 (Telephone Rings) 19 (WHEREUPON, Martin Weinberger joins the 20 proceeding already in-progress via 21 teleconference): 22 MR. WEINBERGER: Hello? 23 MR. ACKERMAN: We're here, Marty. 24 MR. WEINBERGER: Good morning. Thank you 25 very much. And I'm sorry that I've disrupted United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077575 Page 12 1 anything by not calling in earlier. 2 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: Do you want to go 3 around the table so he knows who is here? 4 MR. ACKERMAN: Yes. Joe Ackerman is here, 5 Marty. 6 MR. WEINBERGER: Good morning, Joe. 7 MR. KNIGHT: Chris Knight. 8 MR. WEINBERGER: Hi, Chris. 9 MRS. SANCHEZ: Hi, Marty. Lilly Sanchez. 10 MR. WEINBERGER: Hi, Lilly. 11 MR. SCAROLA: Jack Scarola and Bradley 12 Edwards. 13 MR. WEINBERGER: Good morning to you both. 14 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: And Robert Carney. 15 MR. EDWARDS: Hi. 16 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: As I had mentioned, 17 the problem that I'm seeing if we have simply 18 both judges copied, as long as we have both the 19 judges making rulings, we have the possibility 20 of inconsistent rulings. Therein, we have a 21 problem. 22 The solution I think, ultimately, is because 23 it is a Judge Crow case and it's being handled 24 in State Court and it's a pure State Court 25 action, ideally, is to have the Special Master United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077576 Page 13 1 appointed in the State Court and then have Judge 2 Crow actually be the one ruling on the 3 objections, if there are any objections, but 4 have the report go back with a copy to Judge 5 Rey. 6 Now, any issues that are exclusively Judge 7 Rey issues for which Judge Crow would have no 8 interest in would be in front of Judge Rey. But 9 where there are State Court issues for which 10 Judge Crow would ultimately make the final 11 decision as to admissibility in court, as to 12 discoverability, as to whatever, it seems to me 13 the obvious choice is to have Judge Crow rule on 14 those and not be in a position of a potentially 15 dueling judges' orders. 16 MR. KNIGHT: I understand what you've said, 17 and I'll fill Marty in more on the part he 18 missed. We'll get back to that. 19 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: Let's take a look at 20 the privilege log right now. We can come -- 21 MR. SCAROLA: Let me just make sure that my 22 position is clear. I agree with everything that 23 you have said. Obviously, you can only be 24 appointed as Special Master in the State Court 25 proceeding upon stipulation of the parties. United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077577 Page 14 1 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: I agree. Actually, 2 and by order of the court. It's still going to 3 take a court order. 4 MR. SCAROLA: Well, yes and no. Yes, it 5 would take a court order for you to be appointed 6 as Special Master to follow the proceedings that 7 we have described. The parties are also free to 8 agree to arbitrate these issues -- 9 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: Oh, absolutely. 10 MR. SCAROLA: -- to make your decision a 11 binding arbitration decision with regard to the 12 discovery of these documents. We are offering 13 to do both. We are offering to have you 14 appointed as Special Master in the State Court 15 and to follow the proceedings that ordinarily 16 are followed with regard to a Special Master's 17 appointment where you report to the court. 18 There is a possibility for objections being 19 made. The court rules on those objections. 20 Accepts, rejects or modifies the report of the 21 Special Master. We agree to that procedure. 22 We also go a step further. We are willing 23 to allow all of these discovery issues to be 24 resolved by binding arbitration. To have you as 25 Special Master become the arbiter, the final United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077578 Page 15 1 arbiter of these discovery issues. 2 If the plaintiff is, in fact, interested in 3 the expedited resolution of these issues, the 4 fastest way to get them resolved is to agree to 5 that procedure. I don't think they've ever been 6 interested in that. 7 Their rejection of our proposal that you be 8 Special Master in the State Court proceedings 9 indicates they have no real interest in that. 10 Their refusal to agree to have these issues 11 arbitrated by you is a further indication that 12 they have no interest in that. 13 This is an abuse of process from beginning 14 to end and all of these discovery proceedings 15 are part of that abuse of the court's process. 16 That's our position. Let them do with it 17 what they want, but I want to be sure that this 18 record reflects what we are willing to do. 19 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: I am not necessarily 20 sure that I'm agreeing one hundred percent with 21 your analysis. I think, even if the parties 22 stipulate, for me to be a binding arbiter would 23 still require a court order. 24 And the reason I'm saying that is, because 25 I'm looking at it from the point of view of United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077579 Page 16 1 Judge Crow. If I were Judge Crow, the question 2 is: Would I want somebody making decisions for 3 me that go up on appeal with my name on them 4 where I'm no part of the decision at all? I'm 5 not necessarily sure that I would agree to 6 that. 7 MR. SCAROLA: There would be no appeal. If 8 it's binding arbitration, there is no appeal. 9 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: Well, ultimately, 10 once the case goes up to the appellate court, 11 let's assume just for the sake of argument that 12 I make a ruling and I goof in my ruling. The 13 question is: It eliminates from Judge Crow any 14 ability to correct it. 15 Ultimately, when it goes up on appeal he's 16 the one who's appealed, not me. That's why I'm 17 viewing where I'm in Judge Crow's position, 18 whether it's binding arbitration or Special 19 Master, I would like to sign-off on the order. 20 MR. KNIGHT: Judge Carney, I heard Mr. 21 Scarola the first time. I heard him the second 22 time. I heard him the third time. The abuse of 23 process here, we still haven't been able to get 24 a proper privilege log since August. We want 25 to move forward on that. We understand his United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077580 Page 17 1 issues and where he wants to go. I don't think 2 arbitration is something we've even discussed, 3 so we will consider that. 4 Although, I think there is a bunch of 5 problems that will come with that relative to 6 appellate rights, et cetera, that would be 7 before Judge Crow because we can't appeal your 8 ruling to the 4th. We can appeal Judge Crow's. 9 I don't want to get into that. I actually 10 want to get into the merits of what this hearing 11 is supposed to be today and not this smokescreen 12 that's being pushed on us, because there are 13 significant deficiencies in this TIG privilege 14 log that we need to discuss. They're very 15 important. It can put us in a position where at 16 this point we'll need to start reviewing the 17 documents. 18 MR. SCAROLA: Let's get at it. 19 MR. KNIGHT: So we need to get into it. 20 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: Just before we go. 21 Ultimately - and I do understand the defense 22 position because this has been on the table in 23 the past, apparently, agreed to by the 24 plaintiff - the position is in the absence of 25 following through on the agreement, it's United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077581 Page 18 1 ultimately waiting to see what the ruling is 2 here. And if you like the ruling, you agree to 3 it. And if you don't like the ruling, you don't 4 agree to it. 5 As I say, there is some merits to the 6 position that probably aught be resolved before 7 the court makes a particular ruling, but I can't 8 compel resolution one way or the other. What I 9 am advising is, without a resolution of getting 10 in front of Judge Crow, all we're doing at this 11 point is spinning our wheels. 12 As I say, it's a State Court action and 13 Judge Crow has already said, I'm not bound by 14 whatever the bankruptcy judge does. In the 15 absence of an agreement, this cannot be placed 16 in front of Judge Crow as a fait accompli. 17 So, I see really compelling reasons, legal 18 reasons to go at least part way with what Mr. 19 Scarola is saying. I see only upside and no 20 downside. To do it without it, I see only 21 downside and no upside. 22 At any rate, having said that, let's 23 proceed. Let's start I guess with the privilege 24 log. 25 MR. ACKERMAN: Your Honor, I would like to United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077582 Page 19 1 just add a couple of things before we proceed. 2 First of all, this matter has been brought up 3 without being properly noticed. 4 Judge Crow has entered a case management 5 order, which this is one of the items we have to 6 discuss. It's not as simple as Mr. Scarola puts 7 it, because there are issues as we've argued 8 before that Judge Rey has jurisdiction over, 9 including the order that we're here for now. 10 That has to be addressed now because of the 11 outstanding nature of the orders relating to the 12 privilege log. 13 We have other subpoenas that are going to go 14 to the Trustee. The Trustee is under the 15 jurisdiction of a Bankruptcy Court. Mr. 16 Scarola, with all due respect, is inaccurate in 17 relating what I said because, initially, when 18 these matters came before Judge Rey there were 19 other parties seeking records on adversary 20 proceedings. 21 But notwithstanding that, Judge Rey had 22 entered an order stating that based on the fact 23 that he had jurisdiction over the property of 24 R.R.A.'s records that he has jurisdiction over 25 that. United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077583 Page 20 1 At this point in time we're asking the 2 court to rule on these two matters, asking the 3 court to enter a recommendation and at that 4 point in time the matter goes to Judge Rey. And 5 I believe that's the time to address these 6 issues, but it can't be done with a simple 7 stipulation because there are other issues that 8 have to be addressed for future subpoenas and 9 whether or not you're going to be appointed on 10 anything beside that. That's something that we 11 haven't discussed or resolved, and I say that 12 with all due respect to Your Honor. 13 But right now, your appointment is for these 14 documents and this subpoena. I believe that 15 in order to accomplish what Mr. Scarola is 16 saying or accomplish, rather, what Judge Crow is 17 saying for a review, ultimately, on the issues 18 that have to come before him, those issues have 19 to be taken into consideration. 20 They can't be done today. They haven't been 21 able to be done before because we haven't 22 addressed them. I think the appropriate time 23 is to do it as part of the case management and 24 not today. 25 MR. SCAROLA: I'm really not sure what Mr. United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077584 Page 21 1 Ackerman just said, but if what he has said is 2 he doesn't want to proceed today, he wants to 3 wait and let Judge Crow do this 4 MR. ACKERMAN: No, that's not what I'm 5 saying. I'm talking about your suggestion -- 6 MR. SCAROLA: This matter has not been 7 properly noticed. What is the matter -- 8 MR. KNIGHT: He's talking about what you 9 just brought up. 10 MR. SCAROLA: What is the matter that has 11 not been properly noticed? 12 MR. ACKERMAN: What you started this 13 conversation with today, that's what I'm talking 14 about. Your request for a stipulation, that's 15 not before us today. 16 MR. SCAROLA: Well, I don't know what 17 procedure must be followed to offer to enter 18 into a stipulation. I'm not aware that I've got 19 to file some written document or give some 20 period of time, notice in advance of raising 21 that issue. I have offered this stipulation 22 repeatedly. It has repeatedly been accepted 23 informally and then rejected. No confirmation 24 has ever been made. 25 I understand that it's been rejected today. United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077585 Page 22 1 That's fine. I want it to be clear on the 2 record that that continues to be our position. 3 It will always continue to be our position. I 4 always expect that we will get nothing but delay 5 from the other side. That's okay, too. 6 So, if the matter that has not been properly 7 noticed is our offer of a stipulation, I don't 8 know what that means, let's get on with 9 whatever Mr. Ackerman believes has been properly 10 noticed. 11 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: Let's go back to the 12 privilege log at this point and the complaints 13 with the privilege log. Let's see if we have an 14 issue with the privilege log. And if we do, 15 what it is and what needs to be done. 16 MR. ACKERMAN: Your Honor, we filed an 17 extensive memorandum that summarizes, first, the 18 requirements of a privilege log and where, 19 specifically, the privilege log is deficient. 20 While we're on the subject of delay, a proper, 21 legally sufficient privilege log was due on 22 January 31st. One was not presented. It 23 was, basically, a privilege log that listed 24 several thousand documents with one entry to 25 apply to all of them. United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077586 Page 23 1 We were before Your Honor again on February 2 16th. Mr. Edwards, Mr. Farmer and L.M. were 3 given the opportunity to prepare a second 4 privilege log that would comply with the TIG 5 requirements. We received that second privilege 6 log, and that's the one we're here before Your 7 Honor. 8 The case law is abundantly clear that in 9 order for a party that seeks documents claimed 10 to be privileged, they must receive a log that 11 is complete, adequate and defines the 12 relationship of the parties so that they can 13 determine whether a valid privilege has been 14 asserted. 15 In this case throughout the entire log there 16 is no identification of the parties or their 17 capacities, so we cannot determine whether or 18 not they're a part of Mr. Edwards' law firm or 19 whether they're outside it. And I believe the 20 court had even at one point thrown a suggestion 21 out there to prepare some sort of master list 22 to identify that. 23 And while we may not have stated that 24 that would have complied with the cases, the 25 fact is, they have done nothing after being United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077587 Page 24 1 given two opportunities to prepare a privilege 2 log. 3 Under the cases that we've cited, 4 particularly, the TIG case and the Century case, 5 the court is entitled if it finds it 6 appropriate, which we're asking it to do, to 7 determine a waiver. 8 What I would like to do is go through the 9 specifics of it. The privilege must 10 provide sufficient information to enable the 11 parties to evaluate the applicability of the 12 claimed privilege. 13 With regard to the attorney-client 14 privilege, we listed the elements that have to 15 be shown. We have to be able to see who the 16 holder is. There is absolutely no 17 identification as to which client they are 18 claiming the privilege for. 19 We have to determine whether the person to 20 whom the communi -- 21 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: Don't we only have a 22 single client in this case? 23 MR. ACKERMAN: No. They have made the claim 24 of privilege on behalf of three, three potential 25 victims. United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077588 Page 25 1 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: Okay. 2 MR. ACKERMAN: And now there are two 3 additional claims that they're making that I 4 suspect they're going to claim at least a 5 work-product privilege on. 6 So, we cannot identify whether the privilege 7 has been appropriately invoked, because they 8 haven't identified 1 of 5 possible clients 9 that could be the holder of the privilege. 10 There has to be an identification if that 11 person to whom the communication is made is a 12 member of the Bar or their subordinate. We 13 cannot tell that from the privilege log. We 14 have to know that it was, in fact, in connection 15 with the rendering of legal services, it wasn't 16 done in the presence of other outside strangers. 17 As far as this privilege log is concerned, 18 as it relates to the attorney-client privilege, 19 since we do not have any capacities described in 20 terms of the client, we do not know what the 21 specific purpose -- They can state the general 22 purpose without describing it and revealing any 23 confidentiality. We cannot know what their role 24 is in relationship to the confidentiality in 25 order for them to establish an attorney-client United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077589 Page 26 1 privilege. 2 With regard to the work-product privilege, 3 that privilege is divided into two parts. It's 4 a fact work-product privilege, which relates to 5 information obtained during and in anticipation 6 of litigation. 7 And then there is the privilege that relates 8 to the attorney's mental thoughts and 9 impressions. Under almost all circumstances, 10 the thoughts and impressions of a lawyer are 11 completely privileged as work-product. 12 Under certain circumstances, upon the 13 demonstration of need and upon the demonstration 14 of inability to obtain facts from other sources, 15 fact work-product can be obtained from the party 16 requesting the information. In this instance there is no effort 18 whatsoever to determine or to state whether the 19 privilege claimed to be work-product is fact or 20 work-product. I'm sorry. Fact, work-product or 21 opinion work-product. 22 Now, I've given the court the cases in 23 there. The case law requires particularized 24 findings in support of your determination as to 25 whether or not they are fact or opinion United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077590 Page 27 1 work-product. You're not going to be able to do 2 that nor are we going to be able to make a 3 claim unless that distinction is made. 4 We also, respectfully, direct your attention 5 to the sheer number of people identified who 6 received e-mails from Edwards where no objection 7 is made on the basis of joint defense but only 8 work-product. They haven't established that 9 those people are within the litigation team or 10 the people that are entitled to receive the 11 work-product. 12 Because if he sends information out to third 13 parties that aren't part of his team, we're able 14 to argue that that's a waiver of the 15 work-product privilege without knowing their 16 capacity, without knowing the fact that they're 17 part of the litigation team. There is at least 18 over 20 of those where he's failed to establish 19 who they are. 20 In the pooled joint defense or common 21 litigation interests there are predicates for 22 establishing that. There may be attorneys on 23 there where he's claimed joint defense 24 privilege, although there is no claim of 25 defense against the plaintiffs that's being United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077591 Page 28 1 made, but there's a predicate that needs to be 2 established as to who the person is, what the 3 purpose of the joint litigation or common 4 interest was to be, and that case is requiring 5 matters cited and there is no effort at all to 6 break those up. 7 In general, because the document is 8 discussed among participants or transferred 9 among participants in a joint common interest 10 agreement, it doesn't make it work-product if 11 it's not privileged to begin with. 12 For example, there are communications 13 relating to conversations with U.S. Attorneys 14 and FBI Agents which under no circumstances 15 have any privity with the joint defense. So 16 passing it on, particularly coming from them to 17 these agents, certainly is not a work-product 18 privilege. 19 There has to be an establishment, 20 particularly in the instance where they have 21 identified U.S. Attorneys and FBI Agents, as to 22 how that is any type of privilege, because the 23 government does not participate in nor can they 24 as a party in a civil proceeding absent a notice 25 of being filed and particularly in these cases. United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077592 Page 29 1 They have listed confidential informants. 2 Now, the case law that we've cited allows the 3 government to withhold a confidential 4 informant's identity at least for a certain 5 period of time. But if that confidential 6 informant has material evidence relevant to the 7 defense of the case then a defendant can get it. 8 There are no cases at all establishing a 9 confidential informant privilege in the civil 10 arena. There is no comparable purpose to be 11 served and there is no legal basis for claiming 12 that type of privilege. 13 Here, the defendants don't claim an 14 informant privilege, which is the one that 15 exists in the criminal area, but they claim the 16 privilege of a confidential source. There is no 17 case law at all that indicates that that is a 18 legal privilege under Florida law, under the 19 Florida Evidence Code that deals with privilege. 20 And just because someone is named a source 21 doesn't make communications from that person to 22 the lawyer privileged or any documents that are 23 transmitted in that fashion. 24 So unless this confidential source is 25 identified to be a lawyer or an investigator United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077593 Page 30 1 that's part of Mr. Edwards' litigation team then 2 those are facial waivers of the work-product or 3 any other privilege that's claimed, because they 4 are clearly third parties. And the lack of 5 identification of those people clearly makes 6 those impossible for us to tell. And if they 7 are claiming them to be, for example, in the 8 case of the FBI Agents or the U.S. Attorney, 9 those are clearly third parties. 10 There is also a claim for privilege based on 11 protective privacy rights. They haven't 12 identified any specific privacy right or 13 described the person whose privacy interests are 14 at stake. They haven't identified any of the 15 people that are claiming the privilege in other 16 aspects as well. But here, there can be no 17 valid privilege raised to protect a generic 18 privacy right. 19 Under Section 90.501 of the Florida 20 Statutes it lists the privileges that apply. 21 Absent the establishment of those privileges, 22 any document that is requested should be 23 produced. 2.4 I just want to add one thing that was 25 brought up earlier. Mr. Scarola has argued that United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077594 Page 31 1 there has been no determination on the relevancy 2 of this subpoena. I submit to you, in prior 3 memorandums this issue has already been 4 addressed and you mentioned it at the last 5 hearing. 6 When this subpoena went out to the U.S. 7 Trustee in April, Mr. Scarola asked for copies. 8 There was no objection made at that time at the 9 time the subpoena was sent out. So, it's our 10 position the issues of relevancy are not 11 properly before you on this proceeding. 12 But with regard to the privacy, there is no 13 reason -- there is no case law that extends the 14 right of privacy to the issues that are set 15 forth here. They haven't claimed why it's 16 private. They haven't claimed who's stating 17 it's private. And we contend that those are 18 facial waivers to the extent documents rely only 19 on the privacy right. 20 Now, we've argued and I've given the court a 21 lengthy list of cases that it settled that the 22 failure to supply an adequate privilege log 23 results in a waiver of the privilege under 24 Florida or Federal law. There is a specific 25 case that I cited, Century Business Credit Corp. United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077595 Page 32 1 It's in the brief and I have a copy of it. 2 In that case the 4th District allowed a 3 waiver to be found because the log was not only 4 months late, but also completely inadequate. 5 The citation for that in my brief and for the 6 record is: Century Business Credit 7 Corporation vs. Fitness Innovations and 8 Technology, 906 So.2d, 1156, Florida 4th DCA, 9 2005. 10 As I've indicated to you before, Mr. 11 Edwards, Farmer & Jaffe and L.M. have had the 12 opportunity for the last, you know, from the 13 time the initial orders and documents were 14 provided, and certainly by January 31st, to 15 prepare an adequate log. 16 We are now six weeks beyond that and still 17 do not have a log that allows us to identify 18 meaningful objections with sufficient detail to 19 comply with the requirements of Florida Rules of 20 Civil Procedure 1.280, as well as the TIG case 21 and the Century Business case so that we can 22 make appropriate objections on this. 23 As a result of this we're asking the court 24 that, because no less than four orders directing 25 Edwards, et al. to prepare this privilege log United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077596 Page 33 1 have been complied with and since the last two 2 do not remotely meet the TIG requirements, we're 3 asking the court to enter a finding that the 4 privileges have been waived. 5 Your Honor, on Page 83, if you need to see 6 the log. 7 MR. KNIGHT: These are just some examples. 8 MR. ACKERMAN: To give you an example, if 9 you look at Page 83, it says Brad to source. It 10 doesn't say who the source is. It's claimed 11 within the work-product privilege. We need to 12 have the identity to know if there is a waiver. 13 If you go to Page 85, you have Brad to 14 R.R.A.. We don't know who the attorney is, 15 whether it's Rothstein, whether it's someone in 16 the firm based on the investment team that was 17 attempting to arrange these investments through 18 third parties. 19 There's a similar problem on Page 86 for 20 Rothstein on e-mail regarding causes of action. 21 We believe that that would be work-product only 22 if it relates to a pre-existing client. 23 On Page 87 and 138, we have Jenne to 24 attorneys in Rothstein's firm. If Rothstein 25 We don't know who that's going to. We've United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077597 Page 34 1 established in deposition that Mr. Jenne brought 2 boxes of the L.M. file to at least two 3 individuals who were interested in investing in 4 Mr. Rothstein's ponzi scheme. 5 If Mr. Jenne is sending the e-mail to 6 Rothstein, without knowing what the subject 7 matter is, it could be related to the scheme or 8 it could be to Mr. Edwards relating to the case 9 or the scheme. 10 Page 100, there's a listing for Coffey. If 11 he's not an attorney for R.R.A. and he's not in 12 the firm, then there may be a waiver of the 13 privilege. 14 We have Page 136 where there's an e-mail or 15 a letter from Brad to R.R.A. relating to 16 Clinton. We don't know which client that is. 17 We believe that part of the scheme to entrap 18 investors to this ponzi scheme was to subpoena 19 people like Bill Clinton and Donald Trump. And 20 there is testimony from Dean Kretschmar that 21 talks about a log book of people that were on 22 Mr. Epstein's plane, including Mr. Clinton. 23 Page 118, there's a reference to Carl 24 Linder. He appears to be involved in the 25 transactions involving the scheme with these United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077598 Page 35 1 outside investors, but we don't know who he is, 2 and he appears to be receiving e-mails from Brad 3 Edwards relating to this case. 4 Page 155 shows the FBI as a source. That's 5 not work-product. And if there is information 6 coming from Brad Edwards to the FBI then that's 7 a waiver of the work-product privilege. 8 Those are some of the examples upon which 9 we're relying. But the court can see by an 10 examination of the log in its entirety there is 11 absolutely no identifying of capacities as to 12 who the people are, there is no identifying as 13 to who the client is for whom the work-product 14 privilege, attorney-client privilege, privacy 15 privilege, et cetera, has been claimed. 16 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: Response. 17 MR. SCAROLA: Thank you, very much. There 18 are multiple fundamental defects in the 19 arguments that have been advanced on behalf of 20 Mr. Ackerman's child-molester client. 21 MRS. SANCHEZ: Really? 22 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: Let's start at this 23 point by eliminating the characterization of 24 clients. 25 MR. SCAROLA: Well, that's a matter of United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077599 Page 36 1 established record. He's pled guilty to 2 molestation. 3 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: That may be, but it 4 doesn't serve any purpose here. 5 MR. SCAROLA: There is no privilege log 6 required until discoverability is first 7 determined. Gosman, the 4th DCA case that Your 8 Honor has cited repeatedly in communications to 9 the parties, expressly holds that a predicate to 10 any requirement for the submission of a 11 privilege log is a determination of 12 discoverability. 13 What Mr. Epstein's lawyers have argued is 14 that a subpoena was issued to which no objection 15 was raised at the time of the issuance of the 16 subpoena. Under the unique circumstances of 17 this case, it must be remembered that Mr. 18 Edwards had no access to those documents. The 19 documents were within the possession and control 20 of the Trustee. 21 Mr. Edwards didn't know what the documents 22 were, didn't know what the contents of the 23 documents were and had every right to wait until 24 the time of the deposition and examine documents 25 on a document-by-document basis and raise his United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077600 Page 37 1 objection to discoverability when the documents 2 were in front of him. He had no ability to 3 assert objections in advance of having access to 4 the documents. 5 Once he obtained access to the documents, 6 clearly, he has persistently and consistently 7 objected to the scope of the discovery sought. 8 He has argued that much of the discovery sought 9 is impermissible, beyond the scope of 10 appropriate discovery for many reasons before we 11 ever get to privilege issues. 12 It is our position that while we have 13 complied with the Bankruptcy Court's direction 14 to prepare a privilege log, the direction to 15 prepare a privilege log is at odds with state 16 law as expressly set out in the Gosman case by 17 the 4th District Court of Appeals. 18 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: Let me pause here 19 for a second, because I have a couple of 20 questions. I think an argument can be made that 21 Mr. Edwards had several choices: He could make 22 an objection that it's overbroad, in which case 23 I would agree with you. If there was an 24 objection overbroad, that stops everything until 25 that objection is ruled on. Or, he can make a United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077601 Page 38 1 request for a protective order claiming 2 attorney-client privilege, a separate request. 3 The law actually is gray with the protective 4 order. There is a series of cases that say 5 they, too, also have to be resolved prior to 6 proceeding forward. But there's some case law 7 that also indicates as long as only privilege is 8 raised then it may require the necessity of the 9 privilege log. And that's the issue that I'm 10 looking at right now, because I'm not aware 11 that Mr. Edwards made an overbroad objection. 12 It's my understanding that - because I 13 would agree totally, that stops it - it's a 14 privilege log objection. As I say, a privilege 15 log is gray. Excuse me, a protective order is 16 gray. 17 Under the Evidence Code, and I've examined 18 that very carefully, the cases go in both 19 directions. They're all over the place on that. 20 But as long as the only thing that is being 21 raised, if it is not an overbreadth objection, 22 as long as it is only being raised that it's 23 attorney-client work-product then I'm not sure 24 there is a good way to resolve it without a 25 privilege log. United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077602 Page 39 1 MR. SCAROLA: The point that I'm attempting 2 to make here is that the cases that address this 3 issue address it in circumstances where the 4 objecting party has possession, custody or 5 control of the documents. He knows what the 6 documents are. He can look at them and he can 7 decide which of them are subject to relevancy 8 and materiality objections, which of them impose 9 an undue burden, which of them may be 10 privileged, and he can focus his objections 11 based upon a knowledge of the documents 12 themselves. 13 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: And I'm not in 14 disagreement with that. But if we track a 15 little of the history of this, the way this came 16 about, originally, Judge Rey entered an order. 17 At least in my view the order was just patently 18 defective on its face. The order had directed 19 me to produce a privilege log. There were a 20 variety of issues with the order. 21 I had made a request to Judge Rey that we 22 need to clarify that order and we need to modify 23 that order. We've got problems with it. Judge 24 Rey agreed. A second order was entered. Under 25 the terms of the second order, which is United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077603 Page 40 1 relatively in line with what we're doing right 2 now because there was still a third order, but 3 at this point documents were produced to the 4 defense. 5 Now, we ended up with another problem. The 6 documents that the Trustee gave to the defense 7 were not the same documents that the Trustee 8 necessarily gave to the Special Master. Some of 9 the documents that were given to the defense 10 were corrupted and not able to be read. That 11 caused still another delay, actually, not 12 occasioned by the defendant at that point, that 13 was occasioned actually by the Trustee. 14 It was redone. We did a new document based 15 on entirely what the Special Master got. So 16 that was what we were all traveling under. I 17 gave them my copy, they made their copy. But at 18 this point at least, I believe we were in 19 October, the defendant had the documents. 20 And so what I'm viewing, if I accept that he 21 may not be able to make a good objection until 22 he has the documents and sees what the documents 23 are, then, I'm not necessarily sure I disagree 24 with you on that. 25 Nevertheless, there was not an objection United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077604 Page 41 1 raised on overbreadth. The overbreadth 2 objection under the case law normally stops the 3 privilege log, but a protective order based 4 exclusively on attorney -client privilege may 5 not. That, again, case law goes both ways on 6 that issue. 7 MR. SCAROLA: I understand that concern. 8 But what has consistently been overlooked is 9 the fact that this entire proceeding in the 10 Bankruptcy Court was an attempted end around 11 objections that had already been filed. 12 The first effort to obtain these documents 13 was a production request directed to Mr. Edwards 14 in the State Court proceeding to which we filed 15 relevancy objections, overbreadth objections and 16 a variety of other objections. 17 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: I'm not sure I can 18 bootstrap that onto this. I think each request 19 ultimately requires its objection. As I say, 20 I'm somewhat of the view at this point this one 21 is gray, because there was not a direct 22 overbreadth objection that was filed on this. 23 I think certainly at some point that objection 24 has to be raised or waived. 25 Under the rules it would have been raised United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077605 Page 42 1 within 10 days or 30 days, I've forgotten 2 exactly which, from the issuance of the subpoena 3 or from the notice of the subpoena. But again, 4 accepting that he doesn't have the documents and 5 doesn't know what's in the documents at this 6 point, what they are, again, I'm not sure I'm 7 quite as troubled by that. 8 But as I say, we still get to the question: 9 How does he object to it? Because the objection 10 was only a privilege objection. I think there 11 is a pretty fair argument that could be made at 12 that point that it waives the overbreadth 13 objection and what we're left with is a 14 privilege objection, which would require a 15 privilege log. 16 MR. SCAROLA: I have multiple responses for 17 that. The first is that, Gosman tells us how we 18 deal with circumstances where we're in gray 19 areas. And what Gosman explicitly holds is 20 that an implied waiver of privilege is not 21 favored in Florida law. There must be an 22 expressed waiver. There, clearly, has been 23 no expressed waiver under these circumstances. 24 But let's move on from procedure to 25 substance, if we could. This is not a United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077606 Page 43 1 circumstance where an adverse party seeking 2 discovery makes the determination of the 3 appropriateness of a privilege objection. That 4 determination is to be made initially by you and 5 subsequently by whichever judge or judges have 6 to make that determination. 7 The issue has got to be: Have you been 8 provided with sufficient information in order to 9 make those determinations? 10 T-I-G addresses the situation where a 11 privilege log is provided in lieu of the 12 production of documents. The situation we have 13 here is one where we have turned over the 14 documents themselves for in-camera inspection. 15 They're available to you. You can look at them. 16 We have told you to turn over anything and 17 everything that you think is relevant, material, 18 not privileged by attorney-client privilege, not 19 work-product. Give it to them. 20 You don't need a privilege log where the 21 document is described, because you have the 22 document. You don't need a privilege log that 23 tells you who the author of the document was, 24 because you have the document and it identifies 25 who the author was. You don't need a privilege United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077607 Page 44 1 log that tells you to whom the documents were 2 directed, because the documents tell you to whom 3 they were directed. 4 Every inadequacy that they have described in 5 the privilege log is overcome by the fact that 6 we have voluntarily made the documents 7 themselves available and are prepared to answe_ 8 whatever questions you may have relating to 9 those documents during the course of an 10 in-camera inspection, if you determine that 11 that's what needs to be done. 12 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: I'm not -- Let me 13 pause here for a second, because I'm not sure 14 you and I are on the same page on this. 15 What I'm understanding is, the procedure 16 that seems to be set out as the appropriate 17 procedure on a privilege log issue is: Once the 18 privilege log has been filed, there is a 19 hearing. It's not an in-camera inspection at 20 that point. It is a hearing where the other 21 side challenges, if they will, the privilege. 22 What their position is is, they can't challenge 23 it without more information. 24 For example, the memo to confidential 25 source. They can't challenge that without the United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077608 Page 45 1 information as to whether there would be a 2 privilege or whether that's something that falls 3 outside of the privilege, because it's a 4 disclosure. 5 MR. SCAROLA: We are on the same page, 6 because I agree with you that the standard 7 procedure is: First, the preliminary 8 determination as to whether the documents are 9 discoverable, if not, privileged. Then the 10 filing of a privilege log as to discoverable 11 material that is claimed to be privileged. 12 That log identifies documents with 13 sufficient particularities so that the parties 14 seeking the discovery can challenge the 15 assertion of privilege and then an in-camera 16 inspection to make a determination after the 17 challenge is raised as to whether the challenge 18 is or is not valid. 19 What I am suggesting to you is, we have 20 voluntarily skipped ahead and provided 21 everything for an in-camera inspection which we 22 would ordinarily not be obliged to do. And 23 because we have waived our right to have the 24 defense establish a prima facie showing for an 25 in-camera inspection, the inadequacies that they United Reporting, Inc. (954)525- 2221 EFTA01077609 Page 46 1 are arguing exists in the privilege log become 2 absolutely irrelevant. 3 The documents are there for a determination 4 as to whether any of them are privileged. And 5 if there is any questions that arise with the 6 documents in front of you as to whether they are 7 or are not privileged or otherwise discoverable, 8 we're prepared to respond to those questions. 9 We have met our obligation by voluntarily 10 producing the documents for in-camera inspection 11 without putting the parties seeking discovery to 12 the burden of establishing some prima facie 13 basis for the in-camera inspection. 14 That's the whole purpose of the privilege 15 log, so that they have a basis to challenge the 16 assertion of privilege and to require that 17 certain documents be inspected in-camera. We've 18 waived it. We've given you everything. I don't 19 know that there is anything more, certainly, 20 that we are obliged to do. 21 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: Just so we're clear. 22 Actually, in terms of the Bates Stamp documents, 23 I still don't have the Bates Stamp documents. 24 I've never had the Bates Stamp documents. 25 MR. SCAROLA: They are available. They are United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077610 Page 47 1 available. We've offered them before, we'll 2 offer them to you again. Review them. Whatever 3 you think is discoverable, give it to them. 4 That's the bottom line. 5 All of their objections, their T-I-G 6 objections are based upon a procedure that 7 simply does not apply under these 8 circumstances. 9 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: Just one moment. 10 Let me be sure I'm understanding exactly what 11 you're saying here. I'm going to use, as an 12 example, the confidential source. 13 What you're saying is that, out of the 14 15,000 statements that are listed here, there 15 are various objections that are raised to 16 various entries. Addressing specifically the 17 confidential source entry, that at this point 18 the next step would be an in-camera inspection 19 for the court to determine whether the 20 confidential source actually meets a privilege 21 or not a privilege. 22 What I'm understanding the reason for an 23 in-camera inspection would be, so that there 24 wouldn't be a release of the name of the 25 confidential source until such time as the court United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077611 Page 48 1 makes that determination. 2 MR. SCAROLA: The legal argument has been 3 made that there is no privilege in civil 4 litigation to protect the identity of S confidential sources. I'm going to get to that 6 argument. They have cited the cases that 7 support the fact that confidential source 8 information is work-product information. It's 9 the work-product privilege that applies. There 10 is no confidential source privilege. There is a 11 work-product privilege that covers the identity 12 of persons who are providing information that is 13 not subsequently going to be used at trial. 14 If I may, I'm going to address that 15 issue and I would be happy to -- 16 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: Okay. 17 MR. SCAROLA: Yes, you have the document. 18 You know what the document says. You can make a 19 determination as to whether it is covered by the 20 work-product privilege or it is not covered by 21 the work-product privilege based upon your 22 review of the document in your in-camera 23 inspection of the document. 24 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: Before we get to 25 that, let's cover a couple of areas right now United Reporting, Inc. (954)525- 2221 EFTA01077612 Page 49 1 that are raised by the plaintiff. One, 2 plaintiff is indicating that there are three 3 potential sources who could assert the privilege 4 and there aught be some clarification in the 5 privilege log as to which of the sources is 6 asserting the privilege. 7 MR. SCAROLA: Why? 8 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: Well, that's a 9 MR. SCAROLA: If it is a client of Brad 10 Edwards and a claimant against Mr. Epstein, why 11 must Brad Edwards identify to the defense which 12 client it is? Maybe it's a client who hasn't 13 yet filed a claim against Mr. Epstein. Why 14 should Mr. Epstein be entitled to know the 15 identity of that person who is asserting an 16 attorney-client privilege? 17 And this brings us to what I think is a very 18 important and fundamental point here: The 19 privilege belongs to the client; it does not 20 belong to Mr. Edwards, it does not belong to 21 R.R.A., it does not belong to the Trustee. Mr. 22 Edwards, R.R.A., Mr. Rothstein, the Trustee have 23 no ability to waive a privilege that does not 24 belong to them. 25 Every case that has been cited by opposing United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077613 Page 50 counsel where there has been a waiver of 2 privilege found for failing to provide an 3 adequate privilege log or otherwise comply with 4 some discovery obligation, every case has been a 5 case in which the failure was attributable to 6 the client. 7 The discovery is sought from a litigant who 8 is the client. The client fails to meet the 9 client's obligation and a waiver is found as a 10 consequence of the client's failure to meet the 11 obligation to provide an appropriate log. 12 The privilege belongs to the client. The 13 client can waive the privilege. And failing to 14 comply with discovery obligations, some courts 15 have found in particular circumstances where it. 16 has been particularly egregious, constituted a 17 waiver of the client's privilege. 18 Nothing Bradley Edwards does can waive the 19 client's privilege. It can't waive L.M.'s 20 privilege. It can't waive the privilege of any 21 of the other victims who he represents or has 22 represented. That privilege belongs to them. 23 In order for there to be a waiver of the 24 privilege, they must be the ones who by their 25 actions or inactions or misconduct have waived United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077614 Page 51 1 the privilege. 2 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: That may be a 3 argument for a little bit later down the road. 4 The issue that I'm trying to focus in on now is 5 a narrow one: Whether we have a problem with 6 the log or whether we don't have a problem with 7 the log. 8 MR. SCAROLA: Well, part of the argument 9 that has been made is, because there is a 10 problem with the log there has been a waiver of 11 privilege. 12 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: Well, that's what 13 they're suggesting as a sanction at this point. 14 But right now, I'm not dealing with that issue 15 at the moment. What I'm dealing with is: Do 16 we have a problem with the log at all or do we 17 not have a problem with the log? 18 MR. SCAROLA: Obviously, my primary argument 19 in that regard is: You have all of the 20 information that you need to make a 21 determination with regard to privilege. That's 22 the purpose of a privilege log, that's the 23 thrust of T-I-G; to give an independent finder 24 of fact and law the ability to be able to make 25 the determination ultimately. United Reporting,Inc. (954)525- 2221 EFTA01077615 Page 52 1 The procedure that is outlined usually 2 involves a shifting of burden to the party 3 seeking discovery after the privilege has been 4 asserted to show some prima facie basis to overcome the privilege or to challenge it, and 6 then an in -camera inspection. We've given it to 7 you. Conduct an in-camera inspection. Give 8 them whatever you think may be discoverable. 9 The other objection that they have raised is 10 that we have asserted in our privilege log a 11 right to privacy that they contend does not 12 exist. The point in their memo is, there is no 13 right of privacy that protects against any 14 discovery. They are absolutely wrong about 15 that. 16 This is the Florida Supreme Court, former 17 Justice Rosemary Barkett, speaking for the 18 court. The case is Rasmussen vs. South Florida 19 Blood Service. If you turn to Page 535 of the 20 opinion, I have highlighted the relevant 21 language. You can read it faster than I can 22 read it to you, so I won't bother reading it to 23 you. It's highlighted and copies were provided 24 to opposing counsel as well. 25 Florida law unquestionably recognizes a United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077616 Page 53 1 right to privacy and requires that the trial 2 court balance the right of privacy against the 3 right to discovery. And to the extent that a 4 right of privacy has been asserted in this 5 case - again, you have the documents - you know 6 what their content are. You have an ability to 7 be able to waive the right of privacy that has 8 been asserted against the need for discovery in 9 this abuse of process case. And if you 10 determine that the right of privacy is 11 outweighed by the need for the discovery of any 12 of those documents, you have the ability to 13 order that they be turned over. 14 An additional argument that is made, that 15 there are documents as to which we have claimed 16 a joint defense privilege that are not covered 17 under the terms of a joint defense privilege. 18 As I believe opposing counsel recognizes 19 what is often referred to as the joint defense 20 privilege is really a common interest privilege. 21 The law recognizes the fact that persons with 22 common interests are entitled to share 23 information in a privileged and confidential way 24 regarding the advancement of that common 25 interest against a common adversary. United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077617 Page 54 1 All of the requirements for the application 2 of the common interest privilege are met under 3 the circumstances of this case both with regard 4 to the common interests that were shared by 5 lawyers who were simultaneously prosecuting 6 identical claims against Mr. Epstein; there was 7 an express agreement among counsel that 8 information shared among them concerning Mr. 9 Epstein would be kept confidential; there were 10 regularly-scheduled conferences among counsel 11 for purposes of sharing that confidential 12 information; and the appropriate predicate 13 exists to guard that information against 14 discovery in matters that are still ongoing 15 against Mr. Epstein. 16 The same holds true with regard to the 17 common interests that were shared between 18 governmental prosecuting authorities and those 19 prosecuting civil claims arising out of 20 identical conduct by the same defendant in both 23. the civil and the criminal proceedings. 22 The common interest existed. The agreement 23 existed that information would be shared 24 confidentiality. Information was shared 25 confidentiality with a reasonable expectation of United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077618 Page 55 1 privacy. The law cited by opposing counsel 2 recognizes the fact that that common interest is 3 sufficient to support an assertion of 4 privilege. 5 If you decide otherwise, you have the 6 authority to decide otherwise. You have the 7 documents. You can look at them. You can make 8 that determination. 9 Much of what is argued in this memo seeks to 10 add significant requirements to the elements 11 that are necessary in a T-I -G log, privilege 12 log. And even if those elements were to be 13 added, the in-camera production of the documents 14 satisfies those added elements, but they are not 15 appropriately imposed under T-I -G or any other 16 authority that has been cited by opposing 17 counsel. 18 I think that I have covered the points that 19 Mr. Ackerman made. If there is something that I 20 missed, I would be happy to address it. 21 MR. ACKERMAN: May I respond, Your Honor? 22 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: Yes. 23 MR. SCAROLA: One thing I might add. Also, 24 with regard to the common interest privilege, 25 one of the elements that is recognized in cases United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077619 Page 56 1 that have been cited by the defense, excuse me, 2 by Mr. Epstein's lawyers is an agreement to 3 pool expenses. Such an agreement, in fact, 4 existed and we're prepared to support that by 5 testimony. 6 I think that completes my response. 7 MR. ACKERMAN: Your Honor, I briefly want to 8 address some of the things that Mr. Scarola 9 talked about. We have been through this even at 10 the last hearing. I have a copy of the 11 transcript, if you need it. 12 At the last hearing we had, we had the same 13 issue about overbreadth and whether it's 14 relevant, whether it's determined, and you 15 addressed it. 16 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: Let me cut straight 17 to the chase for a second. What I'm ultimately 18 understanding - and I'm paraphrasing and 19 translating some of the things that Mr. Scarola 20 is saying - not every single entry on the 21 privilege log has been objected to. What is 22 being pointed out is that there are certain 23 entries that are argued as being deficient. 24 Some examples of the entries are being argued. 25 From a practical point of view, it can make United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077620 Page 57 1 it very difficult to craft an order and can 2 cause all kinds of delay in doing that. What is 3 being suggested is a cut-straight-to-the-chase 4 of having an in-camera inspection, both parties 5 present. And if there is a particular issue, 6 for example, confidential source, because I 7 would then have the document and I would know 8 who the confidential source is, I can ask 9 whatever questions are necessary to determine 10 whether a privilege exists or it does not. If 11 it doesn't, it's released. If the privilege 12 exists, we still have yet to cross the bridge. 13 But this is a threshold question, because a 14 lot of what I'm seeing that you're arguing, the 15 majority are situations where there is 16 disclosure and the privilege no longer exists. 17 Generally, it deals with disclosure to 18 third parties, but I'm not necessarily sure that 19 it wouldn't be a lot quicker and easier to do an 20 in-camera inspection and, if need be, 21 line-by-line say yes, no. 22 MRS. SANCHEZ: With both sides? 23 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: Both sides. 24 MR. ACKERMAN: May I address that one, 25 Your Honor? United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077621 Page 58 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: As I say, the 2 alternative is, let's assume right now that I 3 take the position that the log is inadequate. 4 What the defense or what the plaintiff 5 seems to suggest - we'll use confidential 6 source for a second - is that the confidential 7 source be revealed. Well, at that point, the 8 cat's out of the bag. No way to take that one 9 back. 10 The question is: Can they argue 11 confidential source or must they in a privilege 12 log always reveal a confidential source? The 13 plaintiff seems to take the position that a 14 privilege log would require that you reveal a 15 confidential source, and I don't think the case 16 law really supports that. 17 And if it doesn't, then it seems to me that 18 there has to be an alternative method of doing 19 it where we have a Master who now has or will 20 have all the Bates Stamp documents. 21 It seems to me at least determining the X 22 or the 0, privileged or not privileged, in terms 23 of the X or the 0 it may be a lot quicker and 24 easier to do the in-camera inspection on that. 25 Once we determine what's left, what's privileged United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077622 Page 59 1 or work-product, then we go through the 2 procedure of the hearing at that point to 3 determine whether there's been some situation, 4 crime fraud or otherwise, that somehow 5 eliminates that particular privilege. 6 MR. ACKERMAN: Your Honor, I think Mr. 7 Scarola has glossed over an important 8 requirement in the rule. The rule doesn't 9 His proposal neglects the portion of the rule 10 that says - and this is Rule 1.280(b) 5 of the 11 Florida Rules and there is a similar provision 12 in the Federal Rules - and the idea and what 13 these cases say, I mean, we're not trying to 14 craft additional work for them. We're asking 15 them to do what the law requires: The 16 information must be sufficient to enable the 17 parties to assess the applicability of the 18 privilege or protection. 19 The problem with Mr. Scarola's suggestion 20 is, we can't make any assessment because -- And 21 we did object to the entire entry in the initial 22 letter that I sent out, because there is no 23 identification - and these are requirements in 24 the cases - there is no identification as to who 25 the person is or what their capacity is. There United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077623 Page 60 1 is no identification as to who is claiming the 2 privilege in which case it is. 3 I don't want to repeat what I said, but 4 we cannot make any arguments of waiver. You 5 will not know who is who when you do the 6 in -camera inspection. 7 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: Actually, I would 8 with both parties here. That's why I would want 9 both parties there to be able to say who is John 10 Doe. 11 MR. ACKERMAN: Your Honor, we can't 12 formulate, we can't make a meaningful assessment 13 as to whether the privilege claim is appropriate 14 or not without having the basic information 15 that's required by TIG. That is a requirement 16 in the rule. It is a requirement in the cases. 17 Because he, Mr. Scarola, believes you can do it 18 doesn't satisfy the rule where it says: In a 19 manner without revealing information itself 20 privileged or protected will enable other 21 parties to assess the applicability of the 22 privilege or the protection. 23 We don't know who these people are. We 24 don't know what capacity they've acted. Mr. 25 Scarola has come in and represented all the United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077624 Page 61 1 predicates for the common interests have been 2 met. There's nothing in the log or that we've 3 seen that will establish that. 4 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: I'm not sure 5 that part of my concern is the plaintiff is 6 seeking more in the log than is necessarily 7 fully required. For example, on the -- You 8 know, whether it's fact work-product or opinion 9 work-product, I'm not sure that the log has to 10 distinguish this is fact work-product and this 11 is opinion work-product. 12 I think the log simply need to claim 13 work-product. It may have to identify whether 14 it's a -- if it's a photograph. In this case, 15 it's identifying a memorandum, but I'm not sure 16 it has to say that the memorandum is a fact 17 work-product memorandum or an opinion 18 work-product or it's both. 19 MR. ACKERMAN: But it's gotta say something 20 -- Excuse me, Your Honor. 21 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: It's gotta say 22 work-product. 23 MR. ACKERMAN: How are we going to know 24 what the document is if they just say 25 work-product? They don't describe it. They United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077625 Page 62 1 don't say whether it's a statement. They don't 2 say whether it's a photograph. They don't say 3 whether it's a memorandum of law. And I submit 4 to you that that's what these cases require. 5 You're not going to be able to conduct 6 meaningful review. We're not going to be able 7 to make meaningful objections. And that's the 8 purpose of this rule, so that we can do that. 9 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: Well, the issue I 10 guess what I'm looking at, because I'm going to 11 have the documents, I'm not sure that I agree 12 that I cannot conduct a meaningful review. 13 There is a practical side that I'm looking 14 at I think both sides really aught consider. 15 We can go back and forth from pillar to post 16 trying to get what the plaintiff considers a 17 perfect privilege log. I'm not sure we'll ever 18 get that. We can spend the next six or eight 19 months doing that. 20 MR. ACKERMAN: What's wrong with them just 21 identifying who these people are? 22 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: We can have an 23 in-camera inspection and resolve it. It may 24 cost us a day or two, but we can have an 25 in-camera inspection and simply put the Xs or United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077626 Page 63 1 Os. 2 Once we do that, we can proceed and move 3 pretty well. It seems to me, even if the log -- 4 even if there are defects in the log, if one 5 looks from the practical side, both sides seem 6 to be taking the position at this point: Let's 7 move this along. The fastest way to move it 8 along would be an in-camera inspection. No 9 question that would be the absolute quickest 10 way. Because in the long run, we're going to 11 have to have an in-camera inspection of some 12 sort any way. Down the road, sooner or later, 13 that issue is going to raise. 14 As I say, we can wait three or four months 15 battling back and forth trying to get a perfect 16 privilege log or we can do the in-camera 17 inspection expeditiously and resolve those 18 issues right off the bat. It just seems to me 19 that from a practical side it may be a lot 20 quicker to do it that way. 21 MRS. SANCHEZ: Maybe I'm not understanding 22 the in-camera inspection, because to me it 23 almost seems as if now you're doing their job 24 which is fine. 25 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: Not at all. What United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077627 Page 64 1 I'm doing is -- 2 MRS. SANCHEZ: No, but -- 3 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: As an example, just 4 to illustrate, go to Page 1. 5 MRS. SANCHEZ: Take the first document? 6 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: The first document. 7 The transcript of Alfredo Rodriguez deposition. 8 We can make a determination: Privileged, not 9 privileged. Work-product, not work-product. I 1C mean, I can give it an X or an 0. We can 11 probably right this minute, right now, determine 12 whether that's privileged or not privileged 13 right off the bat. It's taken in front of a 14 court reporter. Does the court reporter waive 15 the privilege? 16 There are various things that we can end up 17 doing. Is presumably a properly noticed 18 deposition a privileged document? Again, I can 19 probably rule on that right now. 20 MRS. SANCHEZ: Depositions are usually 21 public proceedings so -- 22 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: What I'm saying is, 23 a lot of this, things are being raised here. No 24 matter how many orders are -- how many interim 25 things I tell the defendant, we're still going United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077628 Page 65 to have to sit down and have that decision. 2 It's an X or an O. 3 What I don't necessarily want to do at an 4 in-camera inspection is do an in-camera 5 inspection where I don't give anybody any 6 opportunity to say anything. 7 And so, if I take the position off the bat, 8 Gee, if this is done in front of a court 9 reporter at a deposition, a regularly-scheduled 10 deposition in a civil case, is this privileged 11 at all? And why in the world would I find that 12 to be privileged? They can give me their 13 reasons why they think it's privileged or not, 14 but I can put an X or put an O at the end of 15 that, ultimately, in the absence of an 16 agreement, since right now they're saying we 17 don't want to give any of this stuff. 18 MRS. SANCHEZ: Right. 19 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: As unpleasant as 20 it's going to be, in the long run what we're 21 going to need to do is at least sit down and 22 make the threshold determination: Yes, 23 facially, it's privileged. Or, no, it's not. 24 As I go through many of these things, many of 25 these things at least on their face to me don't United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077629 Page 66 1 appear to be privileged at all. 2 MRS. SANCHEZ: This in -camera inspection, 3 would there be a court reporter so that we could 4 object later? 5 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: Yes. The way I like 6 to do an in -camera inspection just so that both 7 sides are aware: In-camera means that I'm not 8 showing it to you. So, we know that. You're 9 not going to get to see it. However, what the 10 in -camera does, I can generically identify 11 something and make a determination that it falls 12 within a category or it doesn't. 13 For example, using this deposition. I can 14 say the deposition is yes or no. I can give 15 them an opportunity to raise whatever they feel 16 is appropriate. 17 When we get to a confidential source, I'm 18 going to know who the confidential source is, 19 because I'm going to have the paper directly in 20 front of me. You're not going to know the 21 confidential source initially. I'll try and 22 find from them at the hearing why this would 23 fall within some type of a privilege. 24 What I'm looking for is initially to take 25 the 17,000 or 15,000 entries and assign an X or United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077630 Page 67 1 an O to the 15,000 entries. 2 MRS. SANCHEZ: Right. Basically, during 3 this in-camera hearing, essentially, what would 4 happen is that the information that we believe 5 is missing from the log to make that 6 determination, you would look at the document 7 and you would provide the information necessary 8 for us to make that argument? 9 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: When you say 10 "provide the information," I'm not -- 11 MR. ACKERMAN: Here's an example, Your 12 Honor. If there is a letter from Brad Edwards 13 to John Jones, you look at it. How are we 14 going to be able to argue that's a waiver of 15 the privilege without knowing who John Jones 16 is? 17 MRS. SANCHEZ: Right. 18 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: That's an easy one. 19 Let's take Entry 2. It's from Brad Edwards to 20 Katherine Ezell. I have no clue who Katherine 21 Ezell is, but we know Katherine Ezell is 22 formally listed here. 23 I can ask Brad Edwards: Who is Katherine 24 Ezell? He can say this is a secretary in the 25 law firm. He can say it's an outside United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077631 Page 68 1 accountant. I have no idea who Katherine Ezell 2 is. 3 MR. ACKERMAN: Can't we get that information 4 before you have an in-camera hearing, that's 5 what we're asking for, so that we can -- 6 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: I don't actually 7 have a particular problem if we look to do an 8 in-camera hearing to try and trim the in-camera 9 hearing if we can trim it. 10 MR. KNIGHT: That certainly would make it 11 a lot more efficient if we would already -- 12 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: Would be to go with 13 what I had originally suggested. If we get a 14 master list of who the players are so that when 15 you're listing people such as Katherine Ezell, 16 Jackie Johnson is another one who I think is a 17 paralegal or with the firm from reading before. 18 MR. EDWARDS: Right. 19 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: But when you're 20 listing Jackie Johnson -- 21 MR. SCAROLA: We'll give you a score card. 22 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: -- and it's to Adam 23 Horowitz, as to who Adam Horowitz is. So that 24 at least we get a score card of who's who. What 25 I'm saying, if we do that we may be in a United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077632 Page 69 1 position, maybe not, but we may be in a position 2 with a score card of paring down what we 3 actually have to do at an in-camera hearing. 4 MRS. SANCHEZ: The other thing that's 5 interesting on the privilege log, and I know we 6 went through this, is that a lot of these 7 e-mails and/or letters or whatever they are, I 8 think they're all e-mails, usually have ccs and 9 bccs which are important to us also. There's 10 not any of them that have that information. And 11 a cc or a bcc is very, very important, because 12 that in and of itself would be the waiver of the 13 privilege if it went to an outside source or 14 someone that's not within the privilege and 15 that's not here either. 16 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: But I am still 17 saying that to have the privilege log - because 18 I'm not sure that we're going to get a privilege 19 log that is going to satisfy the plaintiff and 20 I don't mean that disrespectfully at all - but I 21 think to get a privilege log when you're dealing 22 with e-mails where there are copies, the blind 23 copies, where you have e-mail strings, they go 24 on forever, the privilege log really becomes 25 relatively unwieldy. And the very unwieldiness United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077633 Page 70 of the privilege log is going to always create 2 the objection that can be raised. 3 What I'm concerned with is we can end up 4 with privilege log objection, new privilege log 5 objection, new privilege log objection and go on 6 for months doing that, which is the way I see 7 this going. 8 Or, alternatively, we just take the bull by 9 the horns and sit down and do it. If we sit 10 down and do it, what I normally -- what I would 11 envision is having this and putting an X or an 0 12 or a check on those things that are privileged, 13 those things that are not privileged. 14 At the end of the hearing the Bates Stamp 15 item, if I'm determining that it is privileged, 16 we have it subject to appellate review, subject 17 to court review if Judge Rey wants to look over 18 it, but it's subject to review. We have it set. 19 Once we determine where there are privileges 20 then we can cross the bridge if there are other 21 exceptions to the privilege as it would require 22 a further evidentiary hearing. 23 But I'm saying a lot of this stuff, probably 24 the majority of it, can be either eliminated as 25 it's not privileged and it is discoverable or United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077634 Page 71 1 it's not. I'm not looking to raise at this 2 point or to rule on relevancy objections. 3 MRS. SANCHEZ: How long do you think it 4 would take for us to go through these 15 or 5 How many documents are there in the privilege 6 log, Jack? 7 MR. EDWARDS: I think there's about 2,000 8 e-mails. 9 MRS. SANCHEZ: 2,000 e-mails? 10 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: 2,000? I would 11 think 2,000 e-mails, if we began in the 12 morning, probably a day. We could probably get 13 through it. 14 MR. ACKERMAN: Your Honor, when we -- 15 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: But it would 16 probably take a day. 17 MRS. SANCHEZ: I would think it would take 18 a little longer than that. 19 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: It might take a 20 couple of days to do it, but it depends on how 21 much argument we're going to end up having. 22 MRS. SANCHEZ: Correct. 23 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: And I'm not 24 envisioning -- There are certain things that I 25 know Jack has talked about evidentiary this or United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077635 Page 72 1 you all have talked about evidentiary that. I'm 2 not looking at the initial culling down as doing 3 evidence. 4 What I'm looking at is, basically, a 5 quick determination, for example: Is a 6 deposition in its entirety, is a deposition 7 work-product? And it seems to me you'd get an 8 answer to that one. A lot of these, that's 9 ultimately what I'm seeing. 10 As I have gone through the privilege log, 11 that's what most of them are. There are going 12 to be some that aren't, but most are. And the 13 ones that we actually get to that aren't, we set 14 those aside and that can be a separate 15 evidentiary hearing, but I just think we're 16 going to spin our wheels for a long, long time 17 trying to get a perfect TIG log out of this. 18 When you're dealing with this type of 19 evidence, when you're dealing with the e-mails, 20 with copies and blind copies, strings, I mean, 21 we're just never going to get a perfect 22 privilege log. And as I say, I think that the 23 plaintiff in one respect is expecting more than 24 the plaintiff is likely to get on a privilege 25 log to begin with. United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077636 Page 73 1 MRS. SANCHEZ: Well, I think we're just 2 looking for something a little bit more 3 meaningful so that we can narrow what you need 4 to do. For instance, even if we just had the 5 names of the ccs or bccs and who these players 6 are and what connection they had. 7 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: How long would it 8 take to get names for the -- The players that 9 we have, anyone who's named in here -- Now, 10 we've got a lot of entries, for example, Jack_t 11 Johnson is just mentioned hundreds of times. 12 MR. EDWARDS: That was my secretary, so I 13 would imagine. 14 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: Right. I'm not 15 necessarily sure that in terms of a list that 16 the list is going to be all that long. We may 17 have 2,000 documents, but we're not going to 18 have 2,000 names. We may have 50 names or 19 thereabouts, but we're just not going to have 20 that many names. A lot of them are repetitive. 21 What I'm saying, if we can get a master list 22 of who is who, so that we know that Jackie 23 Johnson is your secretary. 24 MR. EDWARDS: And I realize you may be at 25 somewhat more a disadvantage than they are. I United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077637 Page 74 1 think that you're being somewhat misled in that 2 all of these people dealt with Epstein and his 3 attorneys for a two-year period of time. To say 4 I don't know who Kathy Ezell is when that is an 5 attorney that represented 21 underaged girls and 6 you dealt with on a daily basis for two years is 7 just not true. I didn't realize that I had to 8 tell them that this is somebody you dealt with 9 for two years every single day. You know who 10 these people are. You may not know and I think 11 so -- 12 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: I think it will be, 13 if nothing else, it's helpful for me. But the 14 problem that I'm seeing right now - and again, 15 what I'm trying to do is craft something that 16 becomes workable - if we try and parse out 17 which ones they aught know and which ones maybe 18 they don't, we're going to spend forever doing 19 it. We're going to end up with more battles. 20 MR. SCAROLA: We will provide a roster. It 21 will cover at least all the principal players. 22 If somebody's name comes up that we have somehow 23 missed on a copy list, we'll tell you who that 24 person is during the course of the inspection. 25 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: We'll pick it up United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077638 Page 75 1 during the inspection. How long would it take 2 to get a master list out? 3 MR. SCAROLA: A week. 4 MRS. SANCHEZ: A week? 5 MR. ACKERMAN: Your Honor, if we're going to 6 proceed down this path, we're not going to take 7 the position that TIG is waived because B SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: Of course not. 9 MR. ACKERMAN: -- we need to be able to have 10 a second opportunity. If you're going to set 11 aside stuff that you're putting an X on, then we 12 want to be able to have the opportunity at that 13 point in time to tell you the additional 14 information we're going to need to assert any 15 type of objection. 16 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: Absolutely. Here's 17 what I'm envisioning. Again, this is in 18 somewhat of a perfect world assuming that nobody 19 has a big objection or is filing objections on 20 this and the initial objections would probably 21 come out of the defense side. Let's say we have 22 100 entries and let's assume that I decide that 23 75 of those entries, there simply is not either 24 attorney-client or work-product. Then my view 25 is, you get the 75. United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077639 Page 76 1 Now, of course, they can raise an objection 2 at that point if they decide that it's wrong, 3 because I can write out my findings that this is 4 what I'm finding, that these entries are not 5 work-product. But assuming we don't have a 6 problem with that, then you get the 75. 7 For the 25 that we find that there is 8 work-product, we still then go through the 9 procedure. At this point once I make a 10 determination that there is at least a threshold 11 showing right now that we have an 12 attorney -client privilege or we have a 13 work-product privilege, the burden then may 14 shift to you at that point to come up with, Why 15 not? 16 What we still do according to our original 17 plan is we make a determination at a subsequent 18 hearing: What are the ground rules we're all 19 following? What is the procedure now? What is 20 the standard as a preponderance of the evidence? 21 Is it clear and convincing? What is our 22 standards and what exactly -- who's got what 23 burden to establish what? 24 We lay out the ground rules so that we're 25 all clear on that and then we have a hearing on United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077640 Page 77 1 that issue. 2 MR. ACKERMAN: But you're going to have an 3 additional step with that. In one sense you 4 think you may be saving time in one area, but 5 what's going to happen is, you're going to come 6 up with a stack of documents for which you think 7 there is a privilege and then we're going to 8 need to know which those documents are and we're 9 going to need to know or at least be able to 10 express what information we need in order to 11 proceed with our claim that it's privileged or 12 not. 13 So, for example, if there is additional 14 information - I'm going to pick the capacity 15 argument for the sake of it, for the sake of 16 illustrating my point - if they don't tell us 17 who the capacity is and you don't tell us, we 18 can't argue that there is a waiver because we 19 don't know whether the person that received this 20 document was, in fact, part of the litigation 21 team or is protected by some other legal 22 privilege. 23 We need to have an understanding, 24 respectfully, sir, that once the pile of the Xs 25 is determined we have an opportunity at that United Reporting, Inc. (954)525- 2221 EFTA01077641 Page 78 1 point to say we need this additional information 2 if we're going to assert an exception or a 3 waiver. 4 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: I had cited a case, 5 and I don't recall off the top of my head the 6 case, but what my recollection of the case is: 7 The threshold burden in this case is upon the 8 defendant to establish that there is a 9 privilege. Whatever the privilege is, it's 10 their burden to establish that there is a 11 privilege. 12 There is a particular standard and the case 13 dealt with the standard that they had to meet to 14 be able to establish that, whether it was prima 13 facie or what their standard is. Once that's 16 established then we know exactly what the 17 privilege is and exactly what they're claiming. 18 If they are claiming that this is team 19 information, they're going to have to establish 20 the basis upon which they're claiming a 21 privilege; and that's their burden. Your 22 burden doesn't come until after that. 23 Once they establish that, then you have to 24 establish why there is an exception to it, that 25 there has been outside disclosure. Whether we United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077642 Page 79 1 have, for example, a litigation team privilege, 2 whether that applies, they have to establish 3 litigation team. That's the point where you 4 would argue, no, it's not litigation team. 5 Either there is no such privilege as litigation 6 team or these people aren't on the litigation 7 team. They have to put on sufficient evidence 8 to establish the litigation team. 9 Once they establish it, if they can, then 10 the burden comes on you to come up with some 11 reason why then; because there's been disclosure 12 to a third party, because there's been some 13 other thing that would somehow obviate that 14 particular privilege. But the threshold 15 questions that you're talking about they have to 16 establish first. 17 MR. ACKERMAN: I'm not sure I agree with 18 you. I'm not sure -- My concern is to 19 address if they're not established at the time 20 that you finish your review. 21 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: No. What I'm -- 22 MR. ACKERMAN: Because they haven't 23 established it in terms of this log, in terms 24 of, for example, whether there's a waiver 25 because they haven't identified the people. United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077643 Page 80 1 That's an example of what I'm talking about, and 2 there may be others. 3 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: Well, what I'm 4 looking at right now is, in terms of what I see, 5 the first in-camera inspection is more one of 6 exclusion than inclusion. What I'm saying is, 7 I'm taking out the stuff that is fairly 8 obviously not privileged. When we get to things 9 where there may be an evidentiary hearing, 10 whether it's privileged or not, what I'm looking 11 at are certain things that are not privileged. 12 Let's say, the deposition. There maybe an 13 argument the deposition simply is not 14 privileged. If it's not privileged, it's not 15 privileged. If there has been disclosure to 16 third parties and on the face of it I can see we 17 have disclosure to third parties and they're not 18 raising litigation team, they're not raising 19 whatever they're raising, then it's not 20 privileged. 21 Now, if they raised litigation team and so 22 we end up with that Katherine Ezell and they're 23 raising this is litigation team, what my view is 24 initially at that point at the first in-camera 25 inspection, I'll let that go. I'll let them United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077644 Page 81 1 raise what they are raising. 2 At a second hearing once we narrow down, 3 because at this point now you're going to know 4 that Katherine Ezell, what they are raising 5 actually is the litigation team. And so you're 6 going to know that at the end of the first 7 hearing at least what they're raising. 8 When we actually get to a second hearing on 9 this, the second hearing, the threshold burden 10 is on them. Evidentiary hearing, they're going 11 to have to establish litigation team. If they 12 don't, it gets released. If they do, then the 13 burden switches over to you and you're going to 14 have to establish what exception you feel is an 15 appropriate exception. 16 But what I'm saying, by the end of our first 17 hearing we will have culled out everything 18 that is obviously not privileged and, ideally, 19 we would have at least narrowed down what the 20 privilege is. 21 If it's an exotic privilege such as 22 litigation team or this is a right of privacy, 23 whatever they're ultimately alleging as to why 24 that shouldn't be turned over, with each of 25 those documents we're going to go through and United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077645 Page 82 make that determination. 2 MR. SCAROLA: I have a question. 3 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: Yeah. 4 MR. SCAROLA: Why must that be done in a 5 two-step process? If we've got the document in 6 front of us right now and if it identifies 7 Katherine Ezell, if the basis of our privilege 8 claim is that Katherine Ezell shared a common 9 interest with us and the information was being 10 shared confidentially pursuant to an agreement 11 to exchange information among persons who were 12 prosecuting claims against Mr. Epstein on behalf 13 of child victims of Mr. Epstein, why can't that 14 determination be made while we have that 15 document in front of us as opposed to putting it 16 aside and coming back to it at a later time to 17 argue that? 18 We know what the issues are. They've been 19 briefed by it by opposing counsel extensively in 20 the memo that's already been submitted. We 21 argue it. You decide it. That document is out 22 of the way. We don't have to come back to it. 23 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: My only quarrel with 24 that is, that suggests an evidentiary hearing. 25 And as we try to go through 2,000 documents, United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077646 Page 83 1 that's going to take it a lot longer than a 2 couple of days as we go through that. 3 I'm more inclined to give them a relatively 4 clear - by "them," being the plaintiff - a 5 relatively clear idea of what particular 6 privilege is being asserted. If they want to 7 challenge and cross-examine Katherine Ezell, 8 they can challenge and cross-examine Katherine 9 Ezell. 10 But I think we'll need to take a look at 11 the case that I had cited at one point which 12 seems to be the relatively pole star case on how 13 to do these hearings. I can't recall whether 14 that needed a prima facie showing. Ultimately, 15 I think we're going to need to sit down and 16 figure out our ground rules on exactly how we're 17 doing it. Can you say it? Is that sufficient? 18 Do we have to bring in Katherine Ezell? Does 19 she have to testify? We're going to have to 20 lay out the ground rules, and I'm not 21 necessarily sure on the in-camera inspection 22 that it's going to be economical doing it that 23 way. 24 MR. SCAROLA: I'm not suggesting that the 25 right to an evidentiary hearing be eliminated, United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077647 Page 84 1 but taking the specific example that we are 2 presently discussing, it is unimaginable that 3 they are going to contest the fact that 4 Katherine Ezell was representing child victims 5 of Mr. Epstein at the same time that Brad 6 Edwards was representing those child victims. 7 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: What I don't have a 8 problem with that we may be able to resolve at 9 this point: If we're dealing with only a legal 10 issue where both sides are in accord that the 11 facts are not particularly in dispute, and so if 12 we're dealing with an issue is there such a 13 thing as a litigation team privilege, either 14 there is or there isn't -- 15 MR. SCAROLA: That's all I'm suggesting. 16 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: Then I'm saying if 17 it's a legal issue only, I can probably resolve 18 it at the in-camera inspection. If it's not a 19 legal issue only, if there is a mixed question 20 of fact and law, it requires an evidentiary 21 hearing and I wouldn't resolve it. 22 But what I'm trying not to do at the initial 23 in-camera inspection is get into evidentiary 24 issues, because that will dramatically lengthen 25 the in-camera inspection. United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077648 Page 85 MR. SCAROLA: I understand and I agree. 2 MR. ACKERMAN: Your Honor, my concern is 3 that while there may be some documents, it's 4 hard for us to commit to what's going on without 5 knowing who people are. In the case of 6 Katherine Ezell, she may have sent this 7 litigation strategy memo to a third party thus 8 waiving it after you look at it. 9 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: That's fine. 10 MR. ACKERMAN: We need to have an 11 intermediate step here that allows us to look at 12 what you are tentatively upholding a privilege 13 on so that we can see if we have enough 14 information to make a challenge to the 15 privilege, if we feel it's appropriate, or not 16 and brief you on that before there is a final 17 ruling, as we had discussed at the last 18 procedure hearing we had, where we would have a 19 chance to brief you on the procedure and the 20 method for determining any claims of privilege 21 that you've preliminarily determined exists. 22 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: Let me see if we can 23 agree on the following. Today is Tuesday. By 24 say Tuesday of next week, get a master list, 25 which would be -- United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077649 Page 86 1 MRS. SANCHEZ: The 22nd. 2 MR. KNIGHT: The 22nd. 3 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: Have a master list 4 by the 22nd. I had indicated to everybody, I 5 think previously, I'm out of town starting 6 tomorrow and I will be out of town through the 7 25th. Beginning on Monday, the 28th, I'm back 8 in town. 9 Depending on your schedules, I'm 10 anticipating -- I would like to see with a nice 11 early start we get it done in a day. I don't 12 think a day is going to be unreasonable, because 13 I think a lot of this, it's not going to require 14 that much argument. It's a question of just 15 going through 2,000 entries and I think we can 16 go through 2,000 entries in a day. 17 MR. SCAROLA: There may be five legal 18 arguments that's going to be determinative of 19 every issue that's before the court. 20 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: If we do that, if 21 you all are available on the week of the 28th; 22 the sooner we do it, the better we do it. 23 Because at that point, what I'm envisioning is 24 we, hopefully, cull this down significantly. 25 Once we cull this down significantly we then United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077650 Page 87 1 know what the issues are, what privileges are 2 being asserted and on what documents they're 3 being asserted. 4 What I'd like to do, because it will give us 5 an idea then of the approximate period of time 6 that we may need for the second hearing, I'm 7 actually seeing the second hearing is probably 8 going to be a lot shorter than the first. 9 Because what I'm ultimately saying is, it's 10 probably going to be the applicability of four 11 or five theories or the non-applicability as 12 opposed to going through on a 13 document-by-document on each one. 14 MR. KNIGHT: What specifically are you '15 requiring of a master list, because the TIG 16 objection in the beginning here is we need more 17 information to be able to make that hearing 18 efficient to move along? 19 MR. SCAROLA: We're going to give you an 20 alphabetical -- 21 MR. KNIGHT: We need the ccs and the 22 bccs. 23 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: Right. You're going 24 to get a list of anyone that they've named, who 25 they are. So you'll get anyone that they've United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077651 Page 88 1 named, you'll get who they are. You'll get 2 that done by Wednesday. 3 And then at the hearing, because what I will 4 have is, I will have the log but I'm also going 5 to have the Bates Stamped documents. And so 6 I'll sit there with that Bates Stamped document 7 and we'll go through document by document. 8 MRS. SANCHEZ: And at that point you'll read 9 the ccs and bccs to us? 10 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: Yes. Well, whether 11 I read the ccs and bcs to you, we'll take it 12 case by case. For example, if we have what 13 they're claiming is a confidential source, I may 14 not name the confidential source for you. 15 Otherwise, I may not have any problem doing it. 16 MR. KNIGHT: And we still would have our 17 arguments as to why a confidential source is not 18 going to be protected and, in fact, it's a 19 waiver? 20 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: Sure. Absolutely. 21 What I'm saying is, purely legal arguments, I 22 can handle purely legal arguments at the initial 23 hearing. What I'm saying is out of this log, at 24 the end of this hearing on the log, I can put 25 yes, no, yes, no, yes, no as to privilege, United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077652 Page 89 1 non-privilege. For the nos, it's not 2 privileged, you get them. 3 For the yes that it's privileged, at that 4 point now you will know what the privilege is 5 that's being asserted, whether it's 6 attorney-client, work-product, whatever is 7 ultimately being asserted here. 8 I will try at the hearing to ensure that you 9 have as much information as you need on a 10 particular document. You can then make a 11 determination. We should be able to see how 12 many different issues we've got and be able to 13 iron out the time for our second hearing, how 14 long that second hearing is going to take and 15 how quickly we can do it. 16 MR. ACKERMAN: Your Honor, I would 17 respectfully request that as part of the 18 master list they add the ccs and the bccs, 19 because if we know who everybody is that's 20 getting these documents then this review will go 21 a lot faster. I think if they end up looking at 22 these given the kind of list they've got on the 23 log, it's going to end up being the same people. 24 I don't think it's going to be that onerous. 25 I would request that they do that, because United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077653 Page 90 1 then we don't have a dispute at the time as to 2 whether so-and-so is so-and-so and what their 3 capacity is. You'll know and we'll know and 4 be able to address it at the hearing. It will 5 be a lot more efficient. 6 MR. SCAROLA: There are 2,000 e-mails. That 7 is an extraordinary burden. 8 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: I'm inclined to agree. What I will do is this, and I think we 10 may not have any problem with this one: For any 11 particular e-mail where I'm determining that it 12 looks like, facially, we have a privilege where 13 we have non-confidential ccs and bcs, I will 14 tell you who they are. 15 MR. ACKERMAN: You'll tell us the names, 16 but we won't know who they are and their 17 capacity. That's what we're asking them to do 18 now. 19 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: What they're going 20 to give at some point, because I'm assuming that 21 this master list that they're going to give is 22 going to pretty much be covering everyone who is 23 on the cc and bcc list. 24 MR. ACKERMAN: I expect it will, but I'm 25 asking you to specifically ask them to do that. United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077654 Page 91 1 Because if you have all of the people on the bcc 2 list and the cc list, then you're going to be 3 able to look right then and there and see 4 whether they're a part of the law firm or not. 5 Otherwise, you're going to tell us who the 6 cc is and the bcc. And if they're not on the 7 list, we're going to need to know who that is 8 and how it impacts it. If we have those people 9 in advance, we could move this a lot faster. 10 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: I'm in hopes that 11 we are actually going to have those people in 12 advance. What I'm saying is, I'm not 13 necessarily looking that on Bates Stamp number 14 such-and-such that we get the cc and bcc list 15 for every single person on Bates Stamp 950. 16 If we have, nevertheless, for the 2,000 as 17 we have the players, who these are going to; cc, 18 bcc, whatever it is, who these are going to, so 19 that we know who they are. When I actually have 20 the document in front of me, if I'm looking at 21 Bates Stamp 950 and I say Bates Stamp 950 22 looks to me like it is a privileged document. 23 And you say, well, can you tell me who the cc is 24 or who the blindcopy goes to? I can tell you, 25 yes, it goes to John Smith and so forth. That's United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077655 Page 92 1 who it goes to. 2 MR. ACKERMAN: I'm not asking them to do -- 3 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: But you will have 4 the master list and you'll know that John Smith 5 is a paralegal for the firm. 6 MR. ACKERMAN: They don't have to do -- So 7 I'm clear on what I'm requesting. If they look 8 at a bcc and they see John Smith, they put his 9 name on the list. They don't have to put his 10 name next to each document if he's on that 11 document. You're going to see that. 12 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: Right. 13 MR. ACKERMAN: What we want is a list of the 14 capacities of everybody that is originating 15 documents, receiving them or getting copied. 16 Whether they're on there one time or two times, 17 I don't think we need to know how many documents 18 they're on or which ones. You're going to see 19 that. What I do think we need to know by the 20 time we do this is who is on them and what their 21 capacity is. 22 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: I don't have a 23 problem with that, because I'm traveling right 24 now initially under the assumption that in spite 25 of the number of documents that we have that the United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077656 Page 93 1 list isn't that big. When I went through the 2 documents, at least a large portion of the 3 documents, the list isn't all that big. It's 4 the same people over and over and over 5 again. 6 And so to that extent, if we can get 7 that information, it doesn't have to be 8 attributable to each and every individual 9 e-mail, but at least a master list of who 10 everybody is where you're willing to actually 11 give a name. 12 For the ones that you aren't, we'll deal 13 with the confidential source as we get to it. 14 But what I'm saying then, if we can get a time, 15 ideally, if you all can check your calendars 16 now, if we can get a time and let's block off a 17 time 18 MRS. SANCHEZ: Just so I can understand: Do 19 none of these e-mails have attachments, Joe? 2.0 MR. ACKERMAN: They're not -- 21 MR. SCAROLA: Some do. 22 MRS. SANCHEZ: But none of these, the log 23 doesn't seem to -- 2.4 MR. ACKERMAN: The log doesn't designate 25 any attachments. United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077657 Page 94 1 MRS. SANCHEZ: -- any attachments nor did 2 any of the documents we received, the irrelevant 3 ones and the ones that were for attorney's eyes 4 only, I didn't see any attachments. Were you 5 not printing out attachments? 6 MR. EDWARDS: Something was printed out for 7 me. I didn't printout anything. They were 8 delivered to my office and I used that. So then 9 I would turn it over. If it was irrelevant, I 1 10 didn't turn it over. If the attachment was in 11 there, it was in there. I didn't take out an 12 attachment that was attached or anything like 13 that. 14 MRS. SANCHEZ: Okay. I didn't see an 15 attachments, that's why -- 16 MR. EDWARDS: Yeah, all that was printed was 17 the e-mail, all the e-mails. So if there was an 18 attachment to it, it may or may not have been 19 printed. Although, I think some attachments 20 were there because there were deposition 21 transcripts and things like that, and I think we 22 turned those over. 23 MRS. SANCHEZ: Well, like the first one, 76 24 to 89 does not seem like that would be a full 25 transcript of a deposition. But I could be, I United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077658 Page 95 1 mean, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it's a mini 2 version or something and we'll have it. 3 I mean, you know, if there was -- I would go 4 back to the disk and check the disk to make sure 5 that - I can't check it - to make sure that the 6 printing from the disk with the Bates Stamp 7 included all the attachments. I just noticed 8 now on the documents you gave us and in this 9 that I don't see attachments. I find that 10 strange. 11 MR. EDWARDS: Whatever there was was either 12 turned over or -- I didn't take out attachments. 13 I don't see how the production of a deposition 14 is going to prove that somebody was involved in 15 the ponzi scheme or not. I'm lost in this 16 process. 17 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: Let's see if we can 18 come up with a time that everyone is -- 19 MR. KNIGHT: I was just trying to pull up my 20 calendar. 21 MRS. SANCHEZ: My only bad day is that 22 Monday. 23 MR. ACKERMAN: On the 28th. We have a 24 number of hearings on that case, too. 25 MR. SCAROLA: Brad is in trial the week of United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077659 Page 96 1 the 28th. I am on Judge Streitfeld's calendar 2 in a tobacco trial that is backup on the 28th. 3 If that does not go forward and then I am going 4 to have some flexibility the week of April 5 it 5 looks like. 6 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: That's April 4. 7 MR. SCAROLA: April 4, yes. 8 MR. ACKERMAN: I think that would be a 9 better week for me. 10 MR. KNIGHT: The week of the 28th, I'm in 11 Texas. Towards the end of the week, I'm in a 12 big hearing on the 28th. 13 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: How about April 4th, 14 we can block off a day on that? 15 MR. ACKERMAN: I can do the 4th. 16 MR. SCAROLA: The 4th is not good for me. 17 have a mediation set on the 4th. 18 MR. ACKERMAN: How about the 6th? 19 MR. SCAROLA: The 6th is good. 20 MR. EDWARDS: The 6th is good for me, too. 21 MR. KNIGHT: I'll work on it. I've got a 22 couple of things I have to work on. 23 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: Lilly? 24 MRS. SANCHEZ: I'm fine. 25 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: The 6th. The United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077660 Page 97 1 location is here. You want to meet middle 2 ground? 3 MR. SCAROLA: This is fine. 4 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: My recommendation - 5 although I'm not the one driving in traffic at 6 this point when it's up here - the earlier we 7 get started, the more likely we are to finish 8 it. As early as you all are You all are 9 traveling. So, again -- 10 MR. KNIGHT: Some people have kid drop-off 11 schedules. 12 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: Pick the time, but 13 as early as we can reasonably get started I 14 would just as soon 15 MR. KNIGHT: We'll try to get back to you as 16 early as we can. I don't know which day. 17 MRS. SANCHEZ: Barring no traffic, I usually 18 can get here 9:15, 9:30, the latest. 19 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: You want to 20 tentatively set 9:15. And if you're not here, 21 we'll wait until you get here. Tentatively set 22 it for 9:15 and then plan on a reasonably quick 23 lunch. 24 MR. SCAROLA: I'll have lunch brought in. 25 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: Thank you. Do I United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077661 Page 98 1 need to write something up for Judge Rey as to 2 what we're doing here? 3 MR. ACKERMAN: I think you aught to write 4 something up. 5 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: Like an interim -- 6 MR. ACKERMAN: Interim report. 7 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: Interim report. 8 MR. KNIGHT: Good idea. 9 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: What I'm going to do 10 is, I'll go ahead and write out an interim 11 report and I'll e-mail it to you. And if you 12 can -- 13 MR. ACKERMAN: Put it into a form file. 14 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: Polish it. 15 MR. ACKERMAN: I'll send it to Jack. 16 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: And then submit it 17 to the judge. It's not going to have I guess a 18 handwritten signature, but it will be -- I'll 19 put my name. 20 MR. ACKERMAN: Well, what we can do is, when 21 we get the form, I can send it to you. You can 22 sign it. We can do a Notice of Filing of 23 interim report. And then your signed one will 24 get filed. 25 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: What you can do, if United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077662 Page 99 1 you want to catch me where I can be caught, the 2 French Quarter Inn in Charleston. I'll be 3 there Friday and Saturday. 4 MR. ACKERMAN: This Friday and Saturday. 5 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: Yeah, this Friday 6 and Saturday. And so, if you get it there on 7 Friday, what I can do is sign it and send it 8 back to you. 9 MRS. SANCHEZ: And you'll e-mail us whatever 10 it is? 11 SPECIAL MASTER CARNEY: I'll e-mail it 12 first so that you have it. The easiest way 13 that's going to be fairly quick, if you can Fed 14 Ex it up with a return package so I can get it 15 right back to you. But it's the French Quarter 16 Inn is the name of the place. That's 17 Charleston, South Carolina. And then I'll skip 18 it right back to you. 19 Then what I'll do is try and get a quick 20 interim report out this afternoon so that you 21 actually have one this afternoon so you can work 22 on it. 23 Anything else that needs to be addressed? 24 MR. SCAROLA: No, sir. Thank you. 25 MR. KNIGHT: Not at this time. Thank you United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077663 Page 100 1 for your time. 2 MR. ACKERMAN: No, Your Honor. 3 (THEREUPON, the meeting concluded at 12:15 4 p.m.) 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077664 Page 101 1 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE 2 STATE OF FLORIDA ) )ss 3 COUNTY OF BROWARD ) 4 I, Lee Lynott, Certified Shorthand Reporter and 5 Registered Merit Reporter in and for the County of 6 Broward, State of Florida, do hereby certify: 7 That said meeting was taken before me at the 8 time and place set forth and was taken down by me in 9 shorthand and thereafter reduced to computerized 10 transcription under my direction and supervision, and 11 I hereby certify the foregoing is a full, true and 12 correct transcript of my shorthand notes so taken. 13 I further certify that I am neither counsel for 14 nor related to any party to said action nor in 15 anywise interested in the outcome thereof. 16 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto subscribed 17 my name this 11th day of April 2011. 18 Lee Lynott, RMR, RPR 19 Notary Public, State of Florida MY COMMISSION I DD996092 20 EXPIRES: June 29, 2014 Notary Public Underwriters 21 22 23 24 25 United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077665 Page 102 A 89:16 90:15,24 agenda 3:15 appear 66:1 argued 19:7 30:25 92:2,6,13 93:20 agents 28:14,17,21 appearances 2:3 31:20 36:13 37:8 ability 16:14 37:2 93:24 95:23 96:8 30:8 appears 34:24 35:2 55:9 56:23,24 49:23 51:24 53:6 96:15,1898:3,6 ago 4:11 appellate 9:15 arguing 46:157:14 53:12 98:13,15,20 99:4 agree 6:7 7:3 9:6 10:18,19 16:10 argument 16:11 able 16:23 20:21 100:2 10:18 13:22 14:1 17:6 70:16 37:20 42:11 48:2 24:15 27:1,2,13 ackermans 5:17 14:8,21 15:4,10 applicability 24:11 48:6 51:3,8,18 40:10,21 51:24 35:20 16:5 18:2,4 37:23 59:17 60:21 53:14 67:8 71:21 53:7 60:9 62:5,6 acted 60:24 38:13 45:6 62:11 87:10 77:15 80:13 67:14 75:9,12 action 8:24,25 79:17 85:1,23 application 54:1 86:14 77:9 78:14 84:8 12:25 18:12 90:9 applies 48:9 79:2 arguments 35:19 87:17 89:11,12 33:20 101:14 agreed 4:11 17:23 apply 22:25 30:20 60:4 86:18 88:17 90:4 91:3 actions 50:25 39:24 47:7 88:21,22 absence 11:7 17:24 actual 7:1 agreeing 15:20 appointed 3:23 9:9 arising 54:19 18:15 65:15 adam 68:22,23 agreement 6:5 13:1,24 14:5,14 arrange 33:17 absent 28:24 30:21 add 19:1 30:24 17:25 18:15 20:9 aside 72:14 75:11 absolute 63:9 absolutely 8:22 55:10,23 89:18 28:10 54:7,22 appointment 14:17 82:16 added 55:13,14 56:2,3 65:16 20:13 asked 31:7 10:1 14:9 24:16 additional 25:3 82:10 appropriate 20:22 asking 7:2 20:1,2 35:11 46:2 52:14 53:14 59:14 agreements 6:3,4 24:6 32:22 37:10 24:6 32:23 33:3 75:16 88:20 75:13 77:3,13 ahead 45:20 98:10 44:16 50:11 59:14 68:5 90:17 abundantly 23:8 abuse 15:13,15 78:1 a132:25 54:12 60:13 90:25 92:2 address 4:23,24 alfredo 64:7 66:16 81:15 aspects 30:16 16:22 53:9 10:11 20:5 39:2,3 alleging 81:23 85:15 assert 37:3 49:3 accept 10:22 40:20 48:14 55:20 56:8 allow 10:1,20 appropriately 5:5 75:14 78:2 accepted 21:22 57:24 79:19 90:4 14:23 25:7 55:15 asserted 23:14 accepting 42:4 accepts 14:20 addressed 5:2 allowed 32:2 appropriateness 52:4,10 53:4,8 19:10 20:8,22 allows 29:2 32:17 43:3 83:6 87:2,3 89:5 access 36:18 37:3,5 31:4 56:15 99:23 85:11 approximate 87:5 89:7 accompli 18:16 addresses 43:10 alphabetical 87:20 april 31.7 96:4,6,7 asserting 49:6,15 accomplish 20:15 addressing 47:16 alternative 58:2,18 96:13 101:17 assertion 45:15 20:16 adequate 23:11 alternatively 70:8 arbiter 8:24 14:25 46:16 55:3 accomplished 4:20 31:22 32:15 50:3 analysis 15:21 15:1,22 assess 59:17 60:21 accord 84:10 admissibility 13:11 andrews 2:10 arbitrate 14:8 assessment 59:20 accountant 68:1 adopting 9:13 ann 2:4 arbitrated 15:11 60:12 accurate 8:15 ackerman 2:5 4:13 advance 21:20 answer 5:12 44:7 arbitration 14:11 assign 66:25 37:3 91:9,12 72:8 14:24 16:8,18 assume 16:11 58:2 11:23 12:4,4 advanced 35:19 anticipating 86:10 17:2 75:22 18:25 21:1,4,12 advancement anticipation 26:5 area 29:15 77:4 assuming 75:18 22:9,16 24:23 25:2 33:8 55:19 53:24 anybody 65:5 areas 42:19 48:25 76:5 90:20 55:21 56:7 57:24 adversary 19:19 anywise 101:15 arena 29:10 assumption 92:24 53:25 apparently 17:23 arent 27:13 72:12 attached 94:12 59:6 60:11 61:19 61:23 62:20 adverse 43:1 appeal 16:3,7,8,15 72:13 79:6 93:12 attachment 94:10 67:11 68:3 71:14 advising 18:9 17:7,8 argue 27:14 58:10 94:12,18 75:5,9 77:2 79:17 afternoon 99:20,21 appealed 16:16 67:14 77:18 79:4 attachments 93:19 79:22 85:2,10 a g 1:9 appeals 37:17 82:17,21 93:25 94:1,4,5,15 United Reporting, Inc. (954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077666 Page 103 94:19 95:7,9,12 harkett 52:17 beyond 10:17 90:7 71:19,23 73:7,14 attempted 41:10 barnhart 1:18 2:12 32:16 37:9 burnett 2:4 74:12,25 75:8,16 attempting 33:17 barring 97:17 big 75:19 93:1,3 business 3:21 78:4 79:21 80:3 39:1 based 19:22 30:10 96:12 31:25 32:6,21 82:3,23 84:7,16 attention 27:4 33:16 39:11 bill 34:19 85:9,22 86:3,20 attorney 30:8 40:14 41:3 47:6 binding 7:17 8:2 C 87:23 88:10,20 33:14 34:11 74:5 48:21 10:2,7,21 14:11 calendar 95:20 90:8,19 91:10 attorneyclient basic 60:14 14:24 15:22 16:8 96:1 92:3,12,22 95:17 24:13 25:18,25 basically 7:7 22:23 16:18 calendars 93:15 96:6,13,23,25 35:14 38:2,23 67:2 72:4 bit 10:8 51:3 73:2 calling 12:1 97:4,12,19,25 41:4 43:18 49:16 basis 8:7,16 27:7 blind 69:22 72:20 cant 9:10 17:7 18:7 98:5,7,9,14,16,25 75:24 76:12 89:6 29:11 36:25 blindcopy 91:24 20:6,20 44:22,25 99:5,11 attorneys 26:8 46:13,15 52:4 block 93:16 96:14 50:19,20 59:20 carolina 99:17 27:22 28:13,21 74:6 78:20 82:7 blood 52:19 60:11,12 68:3 case 1:9 6:1 8:19 33:24 74:3 94:3 bat 63:18 64:13 book 34:21 77:18 82:13 12:23 16:10 19:4 attributable 50:5 65:7 bootstrap 41:18 83:13 95:5 20:23 23:8,15 93:8 bates 46:22,23,24 bother 52:22 capacities 23:17 24:4,4,22 26:23 aught 7:13 18:6 58:20 70:14 88:5 bottom 47:4 25:19 35:11 28:4 29:2,7,17 49:4 62:14 74:17 88:6 91:13,15,21 boulevard 1:19 92:14 30:8 31:13,25 98:3 91:21 95:6 2:13 capacity 27:16 32:2,20,21 34:8 august 16:24 battles 74:19 bound 11:8 18:13 59:25 60:24 35:3 36:7,17 author 43:23,25 battling 63:15 boxes 34:2 77:14,1790:3,17 37:16,22 38:6 authorities 54:18 bcc 69:11 90:23 brad 33:9,13 34:15 92:21 41:2,5 49:25 50:4 authority 8:22 91:1,6,14,18 92:8 35:2,6 49:9,11 card 68:21,24 69:2 50:5 52:18 53:5,9 55:6,16 bees 69:9 73:5 67:12,19,23 84:5 care 11:14 54:3 58:15 60:2 available 43:15 87:22 88:9 89:18 95:25 carefully 38:18 61:14 65:10 78:4 44:7 46:25 47:1 bcs 88:11 90:13 bradley 1:13 2:9 carl 34:23 78:6,6,7,12 83:11 86:21 beach 1:7,19,19 12:11 50:18 carney 1:3 3:3,25 83:12 85:5 88:12 avenue 1:24 2:6,10 2:13,13 break 28:6 4:9 5:8 6:20 7:3 88:12 95:24 aware 21:18 38:10 began 71:11 bridge 57:12 70:20 8:21 10:6,25 12:2 cases 23:24 24:3 66:7 beginning 15:13 brief 32:1,5 85:16 12:14,14,16 26:22 28:25 29:8 86:7 87:16 85:19 13:19 14:1,9 31:21 38:4,18 - 0 behalf 24:24 35:19 briefed 82:19 15:19 16:9,20 39:2 48:6 55:25 back 5:17 13:4,18 82:12 briefly 56:7 17:20 22:11 59:13,24 60:16 22:11 58:9 62:15 believe 4:9,18 5:20 bring 83:18 24:21 25:1 35:16 62:4 63:15 82:16,22 8:14 20:5,14 brings 49:17 35:22 36:3 37:18 catch 99:1 86:7 95:4 97:15 23:19 33:21 brought 4:2 19:2 39:13 41:17 category 66:12 99:8,15,18 34:17 40:18 21:9 30:25 34:1 44:12 46:21 47:9 cats 58:8 backup 10:6 96:2 53:18 67:4 97:24 48:16,24 49:8 caught 99:1 bad 4:8 95:21 believes 22:9 60:17 broward 101:3,6 51:2,12 55:22 cause 57:2 bag 58:8 belong 49:20,20,21 bull 70:8 56:16 57:23 58:1 caused 40:11 balance 53:2 49:24 bunch 17:4 60:7 61:4,21 62:9 causes 33:20 bankruptcy 7:9,9 belongs 49:19 burden 39:9 46:12 62:22 63:25 64:3 causing 10:8 7:15 8:1,8,12 50:12,22 52:2 76:13,23 64:6,22 65:19 cc 69:11 90:23 91:2 10:4 18:14 19:15 best 9:1 78:7,10,21,22 66:5 67:9,18 68:6 91:6,14,17,23 37:13 41:10 better 86:22 96:9 79:10 81:9,13 68:12,19,22 ccs 69:8 73:5 87:21 bar 25:12 69:16 71:10,15 United Reporting, Inc. 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(954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077668 Page 105 credit 31:25 32:6 deciding 8:18 9:19 detail 32:18 39:14 31:18 32:13 crime 59:4 decision 4:17 9:23 determination disclosure 45:4 36:18,19,21,23 criminal 29:15 11:15 13:11 3:16 5:9 7:23 57:16,17 78:25 36:24 37:1,4,5 54:21 14:10,11 16:4 26:24 31:1 36:11 79:11 80:15,17 39:5,6,11 40:3,6 cross 57:12 70:20 65:1 43:2,4,6 45:8,16 discoverability 5:4 40:7,9,19,22,22 crossexamine 83:7 decisionmaking 46:3 48:1,19 13:12 36:6,12 41:12 42:4,5 83:8 5:21 51:21,25 55:8 37:1 43:12,14 44:1,2,6 crow 5:22,24 6:9 decisions 8:3 16:2 64:8 65:22 66:11 discoverable 7:23 44:9 45:8,12 46:3 6:14,24 7:7,7,13 defective 39:18 67:6 72:5 76:10 8:4,19 45:9,10 46:6,10,17,22,23 7:14,22 8:5,16,17defects 35:18 63:4 76:17 82:1,14 46:7 47:3 52:8 46:24 53:5,12,15 8:18,25 9:2,3,5,6defendant 29:7 89:11 70:25 55:7,13 58:20 11:13,16 12:23 40:12,19 54:20 determinations discovery 8:8,11 62:11 71:5 73:17 13:2,7,10,13 16:1 64:25 78:8 43:9 14:12,23 15:1,14 77:6,8 81:25 16:1,13 17:7 defendants 1:15 determinative 37:7,8,10 43:2 82:25 85:3 87:2 18:10,13,16 19:4 29:13 86:18 45:14 46:11 50:4 88:5 89:20 92:15 20:16 21:3 defense 17:21 27:7 determine 6:14 50:7,14 52:3,14 92:17,25 93:2,3 crows 16:17 17:8 27:20,23,25 23:13,17 24:7,19 53:3,8,11 54:14 94:2 95:8 cull 86:24,25 28:15 29:7 40:4,6 26:18 44:10 discuss 17:14 19:6 doe 60:10 culled 81:17 40:9 45:24 49:11 47:19 53:10 57:9 discussed 17:2 doesnt 21:2 28:10 culling 72:2 53:16,17,19 56:1 58:25 59:3 64:11 20:11 28:8 85:17 29:21 33:10 36:4 custody 39:4 58:4 75:21 70:19 discussing 84:2 42:4,5 57:11 cut 56:16 deferred 7:24 9:4 determined 36:7 discussion 10:13 58:17 59:8 60:18 cutstraighttothe...deficiencies 17:13 56:14 77:25 disk 95:4,4,6 66:12 78:22 93:7 57:3 deficient 22:19 85:21 dispute 84:11 90:1 93:23,24 56:23 determining 7:25 disputing 5:23 doing 9:3,518:10 13 — defines 23:11 58:21 70:15 disrespectfully 40:1 57:2 58:18 daily 74:6 delay 6:17,21 22:4 85:20 90:11 69:20 62:19 63:23 64:1 date 1:17 22:20 40:11 57:2 didnt 36:21,22 disrupted 11:25 64:17 70:6 72:2 day 62:24 71:12,16 delivered 94:8 74:7 94:4,7,10,11 distinction 27:3 74:18 83:17,22 74:9 86:11,12,16 demonstration 94:14 95:12 distinguish 61:10 88:15 98:2 95:21 96:14 26:13,13 different 6:18 7:21 district 32:2 37:17 donald 34:19 97:16 101:17 denney 1:18 2:12 89:12 divided 5:1126:3 dont 3:19 5:13,16 days 42:1,1 71:20 depending 86:9 difficult 57:1 document 21:19 5:23 6:16 8:14 83:2 depends 71:20 difficulty 11:11 28:7 30:22 40:14 9:12,24,24 11:14 dca 32:8 36:7 deposition 34:1 direct 27:4 41:21 43:21,22,23,24 15:5 17:1,9 18:3 dd996092 101:19 36:24 64:7,18 directed 39:18 48:17,18,22,23 18:3 21:16 22:7 dea142:18 93:12 65:9,10 66:13,14 41:13 44:2,3 57:7 61:24 64:5,6 24:21 29:13 dealing 51:14,15 72:6,6 80:12,13 directing 32:24 64:18 67:6 77:20 33:14,25 34:16 69:21 72:18,19 94:20,25 95:13 direction 37:13,14 82:5,15,21 88:6,7 35:1 43:20,22,25 84:9,12 depositions 64:20 101:10 88:7 89:10 91:20 46:18,23 51:6 deals 29:19 57:17 describe 61:25 directions 38:19 91:22 92:10,11 58:15 60:3,23,24 dealt 74:2,6,8 described 14:7 directly 66:19 documentbydoc... 61:25 62:1,1,2 78:13 25:19 30:13 disadvantage 36:25 87:13 65:3,5,17,25 68:6 dean 34:20 43:21 44:4 73:25 documents 14:12 69:20 74:4,18 decide 7:10 39:7 describing 25:22 disagree 9:7 40:23 17:17 20:14 76:5 77:16,17,19 55:5,6 75:22 76:2 designate 93:24 disagreement 22:24 23:9 29:22 78:5 81:12 82:22 82:21 United Reporting, Inc. 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(954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077670 Page 107 fill 13:17 74:18 33:8 43:19 47:3 90:19,21,22 91:2 hearing 17:10 31:5 final 8:24 13:10 forgotten 42:1 51:23 52:7 64:10 91:5,7,11,17,18 44:19,20 56:10 14:25 85:16 form 98:13,21 65:5,12,17 66:14 92:11,18 95:14 56:12 59:2 66:22 financial 2:6 formally 67:22 68:21 83:3 87:4 96:3 98:9,17 67:3 68:4,8,9 find 65:11 66:22 former 52:16 87:19 90:20,21 99:13 69:3 70:14,22 76:7 95:9 formulate 60:12 93:11 good 4:18 11:24 72:15 76:18,25 finder 51:23 fort 1:25 2:7,10 given 23:3 24:1 12:6,13 38:24 80:9 81:2,7,8,9 finding 33:3 76:4 forth 31:15 62:15 26:22 31:20 40:9 40:21 96:16,19 81:10,17 82:24 findings 9:7,13 63:15 91:25 46:18 52:6 89:22 96:20 98:8 83:25 84:21 11:4 26:24 76:3 101:8 glossed 59:7 goof 16:12 85:18 87:6,7,17 finds 24:5 forward 16:25 go 5:19 10:5,17 gosman 36:7 37:16 88:3,23,24 89:8 fine 22:1 63:24 38:696:3 12:2 13:4 14:22 42:17,19 89:13,1490:4 85:9 96:24 97:3 found 32:3 50:2,9 16:3 17:1,20 gotta 61:19,21 96:12 finish 79:20 97:7 50:15 18:18 19:13 government 28:23 hearings 83:13 firm 23:18 33:16 four 32:24 63:14 22:11 24:8 33:13 29:3 95:24 33:24 34:12 87:10 38:18 59:1 62:15 governmental held 1:3 67:25 68:17 91:4 fowler 2:4 64:4 65:24 68:12 54:18 hello 11:22 92:5 fraud 59:4 69:23 70:5 71:4 gray 38:3,15,16 helpful 74:13 first 3:14 16:21 free 14:7 76:8 80:25 81:25 41:21 42:18 heres 67:11 75:16 19:2 22:17 36:6 french 99:2,15 82:25 83:2 86:16 ground 76:18,24 hereunto 101:16 41:12 42:17 45:7 friday 99:3,4,5,7 88:7 89:20 95:3 83:16,20 97:2 hes 6:15 16:15 21:8 64:5,6 79:16 80:5 front 7:6,8 13:8 96:3 98:10 grounds 4:19 27:18,23 34:11 80:2481:6,16 18:10,1637:2 goes 4:216:10,15 guard 54:13 34:11 36:1 92:10 87:8 94:23 99:12 46:6 64:13 65:8 20:4 41:5 91:24 guess 18:23 62:10 hi 12:8,9,10,15 fistos 2:8 66:20 82:6,15 91:25 92:1 98:17 highlighted 52:20 fitness 32:7 91:20 going 7:11 11:2,12 guilty 36:1 52:23 five 86:17 87:11 fruition 6:4 14:2 19:13 20:9 historically 6:2 fu1194:24 101:11 25:4 27:1,2 33:25 H history 39:15 111:25 fla 1:8 fully 61:7 47:11 48:5,13,14 handle 88:22 hitech 1:24 flexibility 96:4 fundamental 35:18 61:23 62:5,6,10 handled 12:23 holder 24:16 25:9 floor 2:6 49:18 63:10,13 64:25 hands 7:8 holds 36:9 42:19 florida 1:7,192:7 further 14:22 65:20,21 66:9,18 handwritten 98:18 54:16 2:10,13 29:18,19 15:11 70:22 66:19,20 67:14 hanging 7:16 9:11 honor 18:25 20:12 30:19 31:24 32:8 101:13 69:18,19 70:1,7 happen 7:11 67:4 22:16 23:1,7 33:5 32:19 42:21 future 20:8 71:21 72:11,16 77:5 36:8 55:21 56:7 52:16,18,25 72:21 73:16,17 happens 7:17 57:25 59:6 60:11 59:11 101:2,6,19 G 73:19 74:18,19 happy 48:15 55:20 61:20 67:12 focus 39:10 51:4 gee 65:8 75:5,6,10,14 77:2 hard 6:14 85:4 71:14 75:5 85:2 follow 14:6,15 genera125:21 28:7 77:5,5,7,9,14 hasnt 49:12 89:16 100:2 followed 14:16 generally 11:7 78:2,19 81:3,6,10 havent 4:2 16:23 hopefully 86:24 21:17 57:17 81:13,25 83:1,15 20:11,20,21 25:8 hopes 91:10 following 3:2 generic 30:17 83:19,22 84:3 27:8 30:11,14 horns 70:9 17:25 76:19 generically 66:10 85:4 86:12,13,15 31:15,16 79:22 horowitz 68:23,23 85:23 getting 18:9 89:20 86:18 87:8,10,12 79:25 hundred 15:20 foregoing 101:11 92:15 87:19,23 88:4,18 head 78:5 hundreds 73:11 forever 69:24 girls 74:5 89:14,23,24 hear 6:6 give 11:6 21:19 heard 16:20,21,22 1 United Reporting, Inc. 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(954) 525- 2221 EFTA01077672 Page 109 johnson 68:16,20 6:16,22 12:7,7 84:20 91:4 80:18,21,23 81:5 38:10 62:10,13 73:11,23 13:16 16:20 lawyer 26:10 29:22 81:11,22 84:13 66:24 71:1 72:2,4 joins 11:19 17:19 21:8 33:7 29:25 85:7 73:2 80:4,10 joint 27:7,20,23 68:10 86:2 87:14 lawyers 36:13 54:5 little 10:8 39:15 89:21 91:13,20 28:3,9,15 .53:16 87:21 88:16 56:2 51:3 71:18 73:2 looks 3:3 7:10 63:5 53:17,19 95:19 96:10,21 lay 76:24 83:20 location 97:1 90:12 91:22 96:5 jones 67:13,15 97:10,15 98:8 leaves 9:11 log 3:8,9,17 5:6 loop 9:6 11:16 joseph 2:5 99:25 lee 1:22 101:4,18 13:20 16:24 lose 6:25 judge 4:16 5:19,22 know 21:16 22:8 left 7:16 42:13 17:14 18:24 lost 95:15 5:22,24 6:1,9,11 25:14,20,23 58:25 19:12 22:12,13 lot 57:14,19 58:23 6:14,15,17,24 7:1 32:12 33:12,14 legal 18:17 25:15 22:14,18,19,21 63:19 64:23 7:7,7,13,14,15,18 33:25 34:16 35:1 29:11,18 48:2 22:23 23:4,6,10 68:11 69:6 70:23 7:18,22,25,25 8:5 36:21,22 42:5 77:21 84:9,17,19 23:15 24:2 25:13 72:8 73:10,20 8:13,16,17,17,18 46:19 48:18 86:17 88:21,22 25:17 31:22 32:3 83:1 86:13 87:8 8:25 9:2,3,3,4,5,6 49:14 53:5 57:7 legally 22:21 32:15,17,25 33:6 89:21 90:5 91:9 10:20 11:5,7,12 60:5,23,24 61:8 lehrman 2:8 34:21 35:10 36:5 lunch 97:23,24 11:13,14,16 61:23 66:8,18,20 lengthen 84:24 36:11 37:14,15 lynott 1:22 101:4 12:23 13:1,4,6,7 67:21 69:5 71:25 lengthy 31:21 38:9,14,15,25 101:18 13:8,10,13 16:1,1 73:22 74:4,9,10 letter 4:10 5:17,18 39:19 41:3 42:15 16:13,17,20 17:7 74:17 77:8,9,19 5:21 34:15 59:22 43:11,20,22 44:1 M 17:8 18:10,13,14 78:16 81:3,6 67:12 44:5,17,18 45:10 machinations 6:18 18:16 19:4,8,18 82:18 87:1 89:4 letters 69:7 45:1246:1,15 majority 57:15 19:21 20:4,16 89:19 90:3,3,16 lieu 43:11 49:5 50:3,11 51:6 70:24 21:3 39:16,21,23 91:7,19 92:4,17 filly 2:4 12:9,10 51:7,10,16,17,22 making 12:19 16:2 43:5 70:17 96:1 92:19 95:3 97:16 96:23 52:10 55:11,12 25:3 98:1,17 knowing 27:15,16 tinder 34:24 56:21 58:3,12,14 management 19:4 judges 12:18,19 34:6 67:15 85:5 line 40:1 47:4 61:2,6,9,12 62:17 20:23 13:15 43:5 knowledge 39:11 linebyline 57:21 63:3,4,16 67:5 manner 60:19 judicial 1:6 knows 12:3 39:5 list 23:21 31:21 69:5,17,19,21,24 march 1:17 July 4:15 kretschmar 34:20 68:14 73:15,16 70:1,4,4,5 71:6 martin 2:16 11:19 June 101:20 73:21 74:23 75:2 72:10,17,22,25 marty 11:23 12:5,9 jurisdiction 19:8 L 85:24 86:3 87:15 79:23 88:4,23,24 13:17 19:15,23,24 lack 30:4 87:24 89:18,22 89:23 93:22,24 master 1:3 3:3,23 justice 52:17 lakes 1:19 2:13 90:21,23 91:2,2,7 long 12:18 38:7,20 3:25 4:9 5:8,10 language 52:21 91:14 92:4,9,13 38:22 63:10 6:20 7:3 8:21 9:8 K large 93:2 93:1,3,9 65:20 71:3 72:16 9:10,14 10:3,6,16 katherine 67:20,20 late 32:4 listed 22:23 24:14 72:16 73:7,16 10:25 12:2,14,16 67:21,23 68:1,15 latest 97:18 29:1 47:14 67:22 75:1 89:14 12:25 13:19,24 80:22 81:4 82:7,8 lauderdale 1:25 listing 34:10 68:15 longer 57:16 71:18 14:1,6,9,14,21,25 83:7,8,18 84:4 2:7,10 68:20 83:1 15:8,1916:9,19 85:6 law 23:8,18 26:23 lists 30:20 look 3:7 13:19 33:9 17:20 22:11 kathy 74:4 29:2,17,18 31:13 litigant 50:7 39:6 43:15 55:7 23:21 24:21 25:1 kept 54:9 31:24 37:16 38:3 litigation 1:8 26:6 67:6,13 68:7 35:16,22 36:3 kid 97:10 38:6 41:2,5 42:21 27:9,17,21 28:3 70:17 83:10 85:8 37:18 39:13 40:8 kind 5:7 6:5 89:22 51:24 52:25 30:1 48:4 77:20 85:11 91:3 92:7 40:15 41:17 kinds 9:15 57:2 53:21 55:1 58:16 79:1,3,4,5,6,8 looking 5:17 15:25 44:12 46:21 47:9 knight 2:5 4:1,14 59:15 62:3 67:25 48:16,24 49:8 United Reporting, Inc. 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