EFTA00126336

1 2 APPEARANCES: OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL BY: BY: WITNESS: DIGITALLY RECORDED SWORN STATEMENT OF OTHER APPEARANCES: OIG CASE #: 2019-010614 DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL APRIL 7, 2022 RESOLUTE DOCUMENTATION SERVICES Agoura Hills CA 91301 Phone: 3 4 1 MR. : This is Special Agent 1 DO]/OIG Special Agent 2 . Today is April 7, 2022. The 2 3 time is 10:21 a.m. The recorder is now on. 3 MR. Assistant Special Agent-in- 4 My name is . I'm a Special 4 Charge 5 Agent with the U.S. Department of Justice, 5 MR. 6 Office of the Inspector General, New York Field 6 Electronics Technician. Last name, 7 Office. These are my credentials. 7 8 MR. : I'm going to -. Man. 8 MR. : ASAC , can you 9 MR. : This interview with 9 introduce ourself, please? 10 Federal Bureau of Prisons employee, 10 MR. : Yes, this is Special Agent-in- 11 , is being conducted as part of an 11 Charge 12 official U.S. Department of Justice, Office of 12 MR. : Thank you. 13 the Inspector General investigation. Today's 13 This is an official DOJ/OIG investigation 14 date is April 7, 2022. The time is 10:22 a.m. 14 into events surrounding the death of inmate 15 This interview is being conducted at the 15 Jesse Epstein, and you are being asked to 16 Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector 16 voluntarily provide answers to our questions. 17 General, New York Field Office. Also present 17 Will you agree to a voluntary interview with 18 are DOJ OIG Assistant Special Agent-in-Charge, 18 the DOJ/OIG? 19 , and via phone is DOJ OIG 19 MR. : Yes. 20 Assistant Special Agent-in-Charge, 20 MR. : Please review DOJ/OIG form 21 21 III-226/2. The form states, United States 22 This interview will be recorded by me, 22 Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector 23 Special Agent . Could everyone 23 General, Warnings and Assurances form, 24 please identify themselves for the record and 24 Assurances to Employee Requested to Provide 25 spell your last name. To start again, I am 25 Information on a Voluntary Basis. "You are EFTA00126336 5 6 1 being asked to provide information as part of 1 MR. Okay. 2 an investigation being conducted by the OIG. 2 MR. -- sign and print. 3 This investigation is being conducted pursuant 3 MR. I will sign and print. 4 to the Inspector General Act of 1978, as 4 MR. Do you understand the 5 amended. This investigation pertains to job 5 form? 6 performance failure and security failure. This 6 MR. : Yes. 7 is a voluntary interview. Accordingly, you do MR. : Thank ou. 8 not have to answer any questions. No 8 This is Special Agent I'm 9 disciplinary action will be taken against you 9 signing on the signature of the Office of the 10 if you choose not to answer any questions. 10 Inspector General Special Agent. And ASAC -- 11 Any statement you furnish may be used as 11 MR. : This is -- 12 evidence in any future criminal proceedings or 12 MR. sorr 13 agency disciplinary proceedings or both." 13 MR. ASAC : I'm 14 The waiver states, "I understand the 14 I'm signin on the signature of witness line. 15 warnings and assurances stated above and I am 15 MR. : Before starting the 16 willing to make a statement and answer 16 interview, I would like to place you under 17 questions. No promises or threats have been 17 oath. Mr. , can you please raise your 18 made to me and no pressure or coercion of any 18 right hand? Do you swear to tell the truth and 19 kind has been used against me." This is the 19 nothing but the truth during this interview? 20 same form we've rovided you before. 20 MR. : Yes. 21 MR. : Yes. 21 MR. : Thank you. You can put 22 MR. : Please review it. If you 22 your right hand down. Please let me know if 23 understand, on the right side, please print 23 you don't understand any questions and I'll try 24 your name and sign your name. If you 24 to repeat it or try to rephrase it for you. 25 understand and agree -- 25 MR. : Okay. 7 8 1 MR. : Thank you. Thank you for 1 typical work schedule? 2 taking the time to meet with us today. We have 2 MR. : My schedule was 6:00 to 3 a few follow-u uestions. 3 2:00 p.m. 4 MR. : Mm-hmm. 4 MR. : 6:00 to 2:00 p.m. Is that 5 MR. : You met with us twice 5 Monday thiiiiiiiiiday? 6 before. 6 MR. : Monday through Friday. 7 MR. : Yes. 7 During that time, I think I was working 8 MR. : And it's based on our 8 overtime because we started the camera project. 9 interview, from prior, we had a few follow-up 9 MR. : The camera project is? 10 questions in regards to that, and a few new 10 MR. : Before all this got 11 questions for ou too. 11 started, we were upgrading the cameras in the 12 MR. : Okay. 12 MCC. So, my schedule changed, and I was 13 MR. : Before we begin, what is 13 working, like, ten or 12 hours a day during 14 your curriiiiiiiiiyment status with the BOP? 14 this time. 15 MR. : I'm an electronics 15 MR. : So, Monday through Friday, 16 technician at MDC Brooklyn, Com Tech. Same 16 normal schedule could be 6:00 a.m. to 2:00 17 position I was in MCC. 17 p.m.? 18 MR. : And this is your permanent 18 MR. : Yes. 19 position nut.? 19 MR. : So, that would be about 20 MR. : Yes. 20 eight hours. 21 MR. : And you transferred over? 21 MR. : Yes. 22 MR. : Yes, when they closed it 22 MR. : So. if you're working ten 23 down. 23 to 12, that means you were working to, what, 24 MR. : Okay. So, let's take a 24 about 4:0iiiiiiiii:00 p.m.? 25 step back. In August 2019, what was your 25 MR. : Yes. EFTA00126337 9 10 1 MR. : Okay. And what about on 1 you had recalled having a conversation with SIS 2 the weekends? 2 Lieutenant You remember her, right? 3 MR. : I was working a little bit 3 MR. : Yes. 4 of overtime there during that time, too. 4 MR. : Thursday, August 8th, you 5 MR. : Okay. And is that 5 had a conversation with her about cameras not 6 somethingliiiiiiiied prior approval for, or -? 6 working inside the MCC. Do you recall that? 7 MR. : Yes. Well, they knew what 7 MR. : Thursday or Friday. 8 was going on, so I got pretty much prior 8 MR. : Thursday, August 8th. 9 approval. If I showed up, I showed up. If it 9 MR. : No. 10 didn't, they didn't really -. Because the 10 MR. : You don't recall having a 11 project was going on. I have a life, too. I 11 conversation with her? 12 can't just be working at the prison all the 12 MR. : The only time they spoke 13 time, so they understood if I didn't show up or 13 about it was Friday, about the cameras, that I 14 didn't come in for overtime. Because my 14 remember. 15 regular schedule is Monday through Friday, 6:00 15 MR. : So, you recall on Friday. 16 to 2:00. 16 Who did you have a conversation with? 17 MR. : Okay. And as needed, you 17 MR. : Lieutenant and 18 would come in, too? 18 that's when I spoke to IIII. She's the 19 MR. : Yes. 19 Associate Warden. That's when they told me 20 MR. : ASAC , did you have 20 that the cameras were down, on that Friday. 21 anything in regards to his schedule? 21 MR. : On that Friday? 22 MR. : I did not. Thanks. 22 MR. : Yes. 23 MR. : No problem. I'm going to 23 MR. : So, just to clarify a 24 move on. 24 little bit. So, Lieutenant wasn't 25 In our previous interview, you mentioned 25 working on Friday, August 9th. They were 11 12 1 actually workin -- 1 camera? 2 MR. : Mm-hmm. 2 MR. : They couldn't pull video 3 MR. : -- she was off on August 3 for whatever reason. They couldn't extract 4 9th. 4 video. They were looking for video for 5 MR. : August 9th. 5 something and couldn't find it. 6 MR. : Friday, August 9th. She 6 MR. : So, it wasn't recording, 7 was workin on Thursday, August 8th. 7 and they couldn't pull any video? 8 MR. : Yeah. 8 MR. : Yes. 9 MR. : According to the schedule, 9 MR. : Do you remember if there 10 she was working Thursday, August 8th, and the 10 were any cameras -? So, when they were trying 11 conversation that she told us about happened on 11 to pull video, where were they trying to pull 12 - she recalls - that it happened on Thursday, 12 video from? 13 August 8th, Associate Warden also stated 13 MR. : I have no idea. I don't 14 it happened on Thursday, August 8th. 14 really remember that they were trying to pull 15 MR. : Oh, so it must have been 15 video froiiiiiiiii. 16 Thursday. 16 MR. : Which office were you guys 17 MR. : Okay. 17 in? 18 MR. : I'm not too sure because 18 MR. : Probably on the second 19 everythiniiiiiiiiibled in. 19 floor by the - maybe the SIS Office, or it was 20 MR. : Okay. And do you recall 20 in the Video Room. 21 what the issue was with the cameras? 21 MR. : All by the -. What's the 22 MR. : They said they wasn't 22 difference? 23 recording. 23 MR. : The Video Room is where 24 MR. : Was that the only issue 24 they have the monitors and the SI Office is 25 you remember? Was there anything else with the 25 right down the hallway, where the SIS Office EFTA00126338 13 14 1 would be. 1 goes to the video matrix, and then it's split, 2 MR. : Okay. And do you remember 2 and it goes to all the other cameras. 3 standing there tr ing to help them pull video? 3 MR. : So, you're saying if it's 4 MR. Yes. 4 in the SIS Shop, and there was issues in the 5 MR. : And when you were trying 5 SIS Shop? 6 to pull video, do you remember looking up at 6 MR. : No, if it was in the SIS 7 the screens and seeing any blank screens? 7 Shop, that's the network. They're on the 8 MR. : In the SIS Shop? 8 computer and they're trying to pull video. If 9 MR. : In the SIS Shop, or on the 9 they're in the Video Room, it's the live feed 10 monitors. There's a lot of monitors. 10 that's goin to the cameras. 11 MR. : Oh, the SIS, that was, 11 MR. : Okay. 12 that has been in and out forever. That was not 12 MR. : And it's inputted on the 13 really working properly even when I got there. 13 screen. It's split going to the recorder, and 14 There's been issues. There was issues with 14 it's split on the output going to the actual 15 that. 15 screens. Yeah. 16 MR. : Can you explain that a 16 MR. : So, which ones had issues 17 little further? 17 where you couldn't see anything? 18 MR. : Okay. So, was it in the 18 MR. : I don't know. Because it 19 Video Room or the SIS Shop? 19 was a lot of stuff not working at that time. I 20 MR. : I'm not sure where this 20 can't reaiiiiiiiii 21 happened, so based on recollection, if you can 21 MR. : Do you remember any 22 tell me, iiiiiiiiicall where this happened? 22 screens being black, like blanked out with X's 23 MR. : If I was looking at 23 on them, iiiiiiiilioint? 24 multiple monitors, it probably was in the Video 24 MR. : I don't know. It was - 25 Room. That's where they have -. The live feed 25 that room was always a mess when I got there, 15 16 1 as far as stuff not working or working. 1 coming from the network. They'd be trying to 2 MR. : But you don't remember 2 pull video from the actual recorders. 3 them, Lieutenant or IIII, mentioning, 3 MR. : So that's where basically 4 hey, listen these screens are blank. There's 4 you can IS 5 X's on them, they're not working. You just 5 MR. : You log in and you try to 6 mentioned that - just on topic - you just 6 pull video. 7 mentioned that there were always issues. 7 MR. • : Okay. So, you can - the 8 MR. : Yes, there were always 8 SIS Shop had the ability to log in -- 9 issues. Sometimes, I would go in there and 9 MR. : Yes, pull video. 10 stuff was working. Sometimes, I'd go in there, 10 MR. -- and review video. 11 stuff was not working. Exactly what was 11 MR. : Yes. 12 working or not working, I'm not too sure of. 12 MR. : So, but the other part, 13 MR. : So, which one was it? 13 the video monitoring -- 14 Just to clarify. I missed that. Which one was 14 MR. : That's just live -- 15 it that wasn't working -- 15 MR. : -- had to be live wired. 16 MR. : So, what -. 16 MR. : -- that's just live wire, 17 MR. : -- the SIS or the Video 17 yeah. That's everything coming in. 18 Room? 18 MR. : And if the live wires were 19 MR. : It would be the Video 19 removed by any chance, would that be a black 20 Room. It wouldn't be in SIS, because -. Okay, 20 screen? 21 the Video Room is the live feed coming from the 21 MR. : Yeah, it would be a black 22 analog matrix onto the actual screens. Some of 22 screen, yes. 23 the cables got disconnected because there was 23 MR. : So ,is it possible this 24 issues. And then SIS, that would be all of the 24 conversatioiliiiit have taken place with 25 cameras in the institution. They would be 25 Lieutenant inside the Video Monitor EFTA00126339 17 18 1 Room? If she recalls that there was -- 1 about the live view. 2 MR. : Yeah, if there were 2 MR. : Okay. 3 screens -- 3 MR. : That's something I would 4 MR. • -- screens that -. 4 have to worry about later. But the main thing 5 MR. : -- that's in the Video 5 was to make sure the cameras are recording in 6 Room, yes. 6 the institution. 7 MR. : Black screens, okay. So, 7 MR. : Okay. And so, this 8 do you recall her mentioning on August 8th - by 8 happened, well based on the fact that this 9 any chance, do you recall? I know it's been a 9 happened on Thursday, August 8th, do you recall 10 couple years -- 10 coming in August 9th fixing anything? On 11 MR. : Hmm. 11 August 9th? 12 MR. : -- it's hard to remember, 12 MR. : I'm pretty sure I did. I 13 but do you recall her mentioning anything 13 must have followed up. Because I was going to 14 about, hey, there's blank screens, access that 14 come back Saturday to do something, so I know 15 needs to be fixed? 15 on FridayIII/Llwhen I went back to the room. 16 MR. : I was working on that 16 MR. IIIIIIIII: Okay. I'm going to show 17 since I got there. I was still working on 17 you a memo. There's a memo dated August 10th, 18 that, until I was leaving, so -. It was an 18 from , SIS Lieutenant. That would be 19 ongoing issue I knew about. But the main thing 19 20 was, even if the screens were blank, that 20 MR. : Yeah. 21 everything would be recorded, going to the 21 MR. : To , Captain. 22 recorders. Like, the live view in the Video 22 MR. : Mm-hmm. 23 Room, that's extra. But if you could pull 23 MR. : Subject was "NiceVision 24 video from the recorders, that's the main thing 24 Camera System." And for the record, I'm going 25 I was worried about. I wasn't really worried 25 to read it, and then I'll show it to you. 19 20 1 MR. : Okay. 1 her on August 9th, you told her on August 10th 2 MR. : "On August 8, 2019, at 2 that, when you came into work on August 9th, 3 approximately 3:45 p.m., while reviewing the 3 you fixed the camera issue. Do you recall 4 Nice Camera System, I attempted to recover 4 that? 5 video footage from the Unit 5 South Housing 5 MR. : No. (Indiscernible 6 Unit. At this time, I was unable to recover 6 *00:12:58). 7 any previous recordings from the camera, this 7 So, I was working after 3:4S. So, I was 8 prompting me to review all of the cameras. 8 on overtime that day she called me? 9 None of the cameras on the system were able to 9 MR. : It might have been. 10 record. Therefore I called the communication 10 MR. : Because I leave at 2:00. 11 technician via radio." That would be 11 MR. : So, you -. 12 you, right? 12 MR. You want to just read 13 MR. : Yes. 13 through that a ain -- 14 MR. : Okay. "At approximately 14 MR. : Yeah. 15 4:00 p.m., responded to the third floor 15 MR. : Yeah. Read through it for 16 Monitoring Room to check the cameras and 16 yourself. 17 notified me that the cameras were not recording 17 MR. : -- and just -. 18 and there was no way to retrieve any video. 18 MR. : "At approximately 3:45 19 stated he fixed the camera system on 19 p.m. on the Nice System, I attempted to recover 20 Friday, August 9, 2019, when he arrived to 20 -. At the time I was -." 21 work." 21 MR. : There might be some 22 So, it looks like the memo was written on 22 grammatical -. 23 August 10th and this is in regards to a 23 MR. : Yeah, that doesn't really 24 conversation she had with you on August 8, 24 25 2019, and at the end, she stated that you told 25 MR. : Does that seem accurate, to EFTA00126340 21 22 1 your recollection? 1 key to get in the room. 2 MR. : No. 2 MR. : Okay. 3 MR. : So, you don't call fixing 3 MR. : I didn't have access to 4 anything? 4 get in the room. 5 MR. : I might have been looking 5 MR. : Because no one was there 6 at something, but I have to make sure that it's 6 in the SIS Sho 7 fixed, like, before I say, hey, you can pull 7 MR. : Yes, nobody was -. Yes. 8 video and I have to pull video myself. 8 MR. : And normally, there would 9 MR. : But she said there's a 9 be someboiiiiiiiiiring the phones, right? 10 possibility that, when you came in on the 9th, 10 MR. : Yes, there should be a 11 you might have fixed the issues with the blank 11 phone monitor, if somebody was there, unless 12 screens. 12 they got ulled to work a different post. 13 MR. : Okay. 13 MR. : Yeah. 14 MR. : And then, you might have 14 MR. : But they're supposed to be 15 came back in on August 10th, which would be 15 - that's be a post. 16 that Saturday, to fix the recording issue. Do 16 MR. : And that Friday, nobody 17 you think that be accurate? 17 was there? On August 9th, I think they had 18 MR. : No. That doesn't really 18 left earl or something to that effect -- 19 make any sense to me, either. 19 MR. : Mm-hmm. 20 MR. : Okay. Do you recall if - 20 MR. : -- and then, you couldn't 21 I remember we spoke about this before, I don't 21 get in. Do you recall - Lieutenant 22 know if your memory hasn't recollected any of 22 mentioned to us that Captain had the 23 it - but about you not being able to access the 23 ability to et ou into the room - do you know 24 SIS Shop because no one was in the SIS Shop. 24 if Captain had his own set of keys for 25 MR. : Yeah, and I don't have the 25 that room? 23 24 1 MR. : Yes, he did. 1 MR. : That's not behind glass? 2 MR. : Separate from? 2 MR. : No. I don't know how they 3 MR. : Yeah. The Captain I 3 do the Captain's. I know the SIS Shop, that 4 think, or the SIS could get in that room. I'm 4 was the main key and if I tried to get in, it 5 not too sure. 5 was behind lass, to get in the room. 6 MR. : I know SIS -. Lieutenant 6 MR. : Do you recall approaching 7 had her awn set of keys. 7 Captain , asking him for access to that 8 MR. : Yeah, could get in with a 8 room on August 9th? 9 key. Yeah -- 9 MR. : I don't remember. 10 MR. : Okay. 10 MR. Okay. Because I know, 11 MR. : -- but I think the Captain 11 based on Captain , Captain was in 12 had the key to let me in the room. I'm not too 12 the facility until about 8:00 p.m. on that 13 sure. Honestl 13 Friday night, August 9th? He worked until about 14 MR. You're not certain? 14 8:00 p.m. 15 MR. : I'm not certain. 15 MR. : Hmm. I didn't know that. 16 MR. : So, the SIS Lieutenant's 16 MR. : So, but you don't recall 17 keys are kept behind some kind of box in the 17 ever seeing him, or talking to him, or asking 18 (Indiscernible *00:15:22). 18 for access to that room to fix the cameras? 19 MR. : Yeah, everything is kept 19 MR. : No. I don't remember. 20 behind glass and the technician's, their keys 20 Maybe I did, maybe I didn't. I don't - that's 21 are kept behind glass. And whoever is in the 21 -. I donL112211y-. 22 Video Roolls_itIltehind glass. 22 MR. IIIIIIIII: Okay. But if needed, you 23 MR. IIIIIIIII: Okay. But does the 23 could have asked Captain , he could have 24 Captain have his own set of keys? 24 let you in? 25 MR. : Yes. 25 MR. : He would have locked the - EFTA00126341 25 26 1 if he had_112_ke1y. yes, he would let me know. 1 go repair the thing. and just couldn't get in 2 MR. IIIIIIIII: Okay. ASAC 2 because no one was there, or the phone monitor 3 anything on that topic? 3 was leaving. So, we were surprised to see that 4 MR. : Yeah, in regard to the memo. 4 there was a statement that you may have told 5 Mr. , I know that time on August 8th, 5 someone that you had repaired it on August 9th. 6 that seems way off based on what you had told 6 So, we just wanted to confirm whether or not 7 and before, and -- 7 .ro ad told someone, specifically Lieutenant 8 MR. : Mm-hmm. 8 , that you had repaired that system on 9 MR. -- frankly, what had 9 August 9th. 10 told us. The key thing that we yianted to find 10 MR. : I don't believe so, no. 11 out is that last line. The " stated he 11 Because I was still working on it so -- 12 fixed the camera system on Friday, August 9th 12 MR. : Okay. 13 when he arrived to work." 13 MR. -- I couldn't do it. 14 MR. : Mm-hmm. 14 MR. : Very good. Th4LLy2u, sir, 15 MR. : So, that's the main thing 15 and that is all I have on that IIIIII, thanks. 16 we just wanted to confirm. 16 MR. : Thank you. Just as 17 MR. : I don't think I did that. 17 normal, can you initial and date it? You're 18 MR. : Yeah, because the last time, I 18 attesting to the accuracy, it's just a document 19 know our guys explored pretty in depth what 19 that we showed ou. 20 happened on Au ust 9th. 20 MR. : Hmm. 21 MR. : Mm-hmm. 21 MR. : Today's the 7th. 22 MR. : That was that Friday where it 22 MR. It's that you reviewed it. 23 sounds like -- 23 MR. : Oh, today is four -- 24 MR. : Yes. 24 MR. : 4/7. 25 MR. : -- you got the hard drives to 25 MR. : 4/7/22. 27 28 1 MR. : We can move on to the next 1 going to read this out because it's -- 2 topic. 2 MR. : It's very (Indiscernible 3 MR. : Okay. 3 *00:18:26iiIIIIIII 4 MR. : You mentioned, previously 4 MR. : This states the - the 5 and even now, that there was a camera upgrade 5 contract states up top - it says, MCC New York. 6 going on durin that time. 6 And the contract number is GS-07F-, as in 7 MR. : Yes. 7 Frank, 0322T, as in Tom. The award effective 8 MR. : Do you recall if there was 8 date is 9/21/2018. And the order number is 9 a contraciiiiiiiiie for these upgrades? 9 15B-, as in boy, NYM-, as in Mary, 18F-, as in 10 MR. : Yeah, it was supposed to 10 Frank, 1-, as in Tom, P-, as in Peter, 120150. 11 be NiceVision, but we just ended up doing 11 And the requisition number is 1064-18. 12 pretty much everything inhouse because it was 12 Now, that's the document you were 13 taking 13 reviewing, and you believe that is the camera 14 MR. : Okay. I'm going to show 14 upgrade? 15 you a contract. 15 MR. : The initial, probably the 16 MR. : Yes. 16 initial 17 MR. : Do you recognize that 17 MR. : When you say initial? 18 contract? 18 Were theriiiiiiiii? 19 MR. : Yes. This looks like all 19 MR. : Yeah, because they had a 20 the stuff we put in for to upgrade the camera 20 contract. This was the original contract, as 21 system. 21 far as upgrade goes, and then, like a year 22 MR. : lust so -. Give me one 22 later, there was another bid that we put in for 23 second. 23 more upgrades. 24 MR. : Okay. 24 MR. : Okay. 25 MR. : Just for the record, I'm 25 MR. : But this was the original. EFTA00126342 29 30 1 MR. : And this is dated when 1 the point of contact? 2 again? 2 MR. : That would be the Facility 3 MR. : 2018. (Indiscernible 3 Manager, whoever that was. Or the General 4 *00:19:31iiiiiiiii/21/2018. 4 Foreman. I'm lust 5 MR. : 2018. Were you involved S MR. : Who? 6 in this? 6 MR. -- in 2018, so that was 7 MR. : Yes. 7 (Piiiiiiiiiiiiii0:20:12) 8 MR. : Who was the point of 8 probably, and then was the 9 contact for this? 9 General Foreman. 10 MR. : Steve Smith. He's, like, 10 MR. had left 11 the head of Nice. And then, but the main 11 by August 2018 right? 12 person I would talk to was Justin Houston, but 12 MR. : Okay. 13 Steve Smith is the brains behind it. I really 13 MR. : And then, 14 wouldn't talk to Steve because he was, like, 14 stepped in? 15 overseeing it. The main person I would talk to 15 MR. : Yes. 16 was Justin Houston. 16 MR. : But said that 17 MR. : Justin Houston. Okay. 17 he never really communicated in regards to 18 MR. : And I called him asking 18 this. 19 him every question, because I never did fiber 19 MR. : Yes. 20 before, or network camera systems, so. 20 MR. : Because he said that he 21 MR. : All right, so Justin 21 doesn't recall the materials arriving -- 22 Houston is the Si Net point of contact then? 22 MR. : Mm-hmm. 23 MR. : Yes. 23 MR. : -- or any of that stuff. 24 MR. : Okay. Who was the point 24 MR. : No, he wasn't there when I 25 of contact for BOP then, at the MCC? Who was 25 don't think any of this arrived. 31 32 1 MR. : And he never spoke with -- 1 there? 2 MR. : Anybody. 2 MR. : I don't know. Honestly, I 3 MR. : SigNet. 3 don't. It's around this time, like, August or 4 MR. : SigNet, yeah. 4 July of 2019. 5 MR. : So, who spoke with SigNet 5 MR. : Okay. Can you flip to 6 in regards to the materials and all that? 6 page four of that? 7 MR. : It was just kind of like a 7 MR. : Yes. 8 thing -. I would just call this, every once in 8 MR. : And you mentioned it 9 a while, hey, did the stuff come in, or what's 9 before, right? What was the name of the 10 going on? But there was really -. 10 recording system that was ordered for the MCC? 11 MR. : So, you communicated with 11 The Nice -- 12 SigNet? 12 MR. : Nice or -. 13 MR. : Yeah. SigNet, yes. 13 MR. -- the Nice, NiceVision? 14 MR. : Okay. Was there anybody 14 MR. : Yeah, NiceVision. Yes. 15 else that communicated with SigNet? 15 MR. : And that's the type of 16 MR. : No, not until got 16 system that was ordered, right? 17 there. 17 MR. : Yes. 18 MR. : And after that it was 18 MR. Okay. Do you recall - and 19 7 19 this was laced in September of 2018. 20 R. : Yes. 20 MR. : Yes. 21 MR. : Or was it both of you guys 21 MR. : Do you recall when all the 22 together? 22 NiceVision, all that stuff in that order was 23 MR. : It was pretty much 23 delivered to the MCC? 24 He's in c.v. know. 24 MR. : It was coming in piece-by- 25 MR. : Okay. When did get 25 piece. EFTA00126343 33 34 1 MR. : Piece-by-piece. 1 the hard drives would come in. That's the line 2 MR. : Yeah. 2 item two would come in. The decoders would 3 MR. : It wasn't delivered 3 come in. So, that's line item five. AMS would 4 together? 4 come in, line item six. Line item seven would 5 MR. : It might have been, but 5 come in. Oh not - yeah. Line item seven would 6 the warehouse was, like, a mess. So, whenever 6 come in. Cameras never came in. Line item ten 7 they told me I had packages, I would go and get 7 would come in. And the wall mount never came 8 it. 8 in, and a media cabinet. So, that line item 9 MR. : Okay. So, what do you 9 14, yeah. 10 recall, what came in first? 10 MR. : So, they call came in 11 MR. : As far as what came in, 11 around when do ou think? 12 mainly the recorders and the new rack, and 12 MR. : I'm not too sure. 13 probably the UPS. 13 MR. : You think soon after the 14 MR. : Recorders, and what else? 14 order was laced -? 15 MR. : The UPS and the rack that 15 MR. : It was a little while 16 the recorders would go in. 16 because there was stuff on backorder, so it 17 MR. : All right. So, the 17 wasn't, like, ri ht away. 18 terminoloiiiiiiiiiver my head. 18 MR. : So, was it in 2018, '19? 19 MR. : Okay, so just the metal 19 MR. : Probably in the early part 20 hardware that the UPS would go in, and the 20 of 2019. 21 recorders. 21 MR. : Early part of 2019? 22 MR. : So, based on, if you could 22 MR. : Yeah. 23 look at that and tell us what you're thinking, 23 MR. : All right. I'm going to 24 and off of the a e number four. 24 show you an email. This email - I'm going to 25 MR. : So, Nice. So, it would be 25 go back - it looks like it's an email from you 35 36 1 dated October 7th, that's 1 MR. : Like, he responded back 2 That's That's you? 2 with trackin numbers for 2018. 3 MR. : Yes. 3 MR. : 2018. Okay. 4 MR. : It's dated October 7, 4 MR. : Does that help recollect 5 2019. 5 your memoiiiiiiiii about when those -? 6 MR. : October 7. 6 MR. : I don't remember when all 7 MR. : And this is to 7 this stuff -. It was a lot of stuff, and I was 8 that's 8 trying to get space for it, so I'm not -. If 9 MR. : Mm-hmm. 9 that's when they said it came in, that's 10 MR. : John Hodge and Justin 10 probably when it came in. 11 Houston -- 11 MR. : Does that email look 12 MR. : Hmm. 12 familiar? 13 MR. . -- at SigNetinc.com. 13 MR. : Yes. This email looks 14 MR. : Hmm. 14 familiar. 15 MR. : And you were asking, "Just 15 MR. : So, that is a 16 following up on the order for the outside PTC 16 communication between you and Justin, and it 17 cameras ex ected date of delivery." 17 looks like 18 MR. : Mm-hmm. 18 MR. : Yes. 19 MR. : And looked like Justin 19 MR. : -- and Hodge? 20 Houston responded back on Molictober 7th, 20 MR. : Yeah, later on because, 21 2019, right? And he says, " , everything 21 when was this? Yes. 22 was delivered. Most of it on 11/23/2018. The 22 MR. : Who's Hodge? 23 tracking numbers are below." So, it looks like 23 MR. : He's the new contact. He 24 this is in 2019. 24 came in after the Epstein thing. 25 MR. : Yeah. 25 MR. : Okay. And what's the EFTA00126344 37 38 1 communication about the PTC cameras? 1 some of it got misplaced because nobody knew 2 MR. : Oh, those are outside 2 what it was, so it went to Building Four, the 3 cameras. 3 warehouse. 4 MR. : Okay. 4 MR. : Where's that? 5 MR. : Those didn't really have 5 MR. : That's in Brooklyn. It's 6 nothing to do with the recorders or anything. 6 right next to Steiner Studios. 7 Those are, like, secondary. They had nothing 7 MR. : This is the Brooklyn Navy 8 to do with the recording. Again, the recorders 8 Yard? 9 and stuff. 9 MR. : Yeah, Brooklyn Navy Yard, 10 MR. : But you think - when he 10 yes. 11 says that's in 2018 - you think those are the 11 MR. : What about the other 12 NiceVision recorders and the decoders and all 12 items? You said some went over. 13 that mentioned over here? 13 MR. : I think there was a time, 14 MR. : Yes. 14 Like, maybe this was the other order that the 15 MR. : You think those were 15 decoders got sent over there. Something got 16 delivered - based on Houston's email - it was 16 sent over there, it was sent, and nobody knew 17 delivered in the -. 17 what it was, and so they just sent it to 18 MR. : In the end of November, 18 Building Four. 19 during the holidays, so I probably didn't get 19 MR. : Okay. And who received 20 it until maybe January, the first week of 20 these orders, do ou know? 21 January. 21 MR. : The warehouse. 22 MR. : Okay. Where do you think 22 MR. : The warehouse? 23 these items were stored? Once they got 23 MR. : Yes. 24 delivered? 24 MR. : It was shipped to the MCC? 25 MR. : They were - and I mean 25 MR. : Yes. 39 40 1 MR. : Do you know who signed off 1 that we get stuff in, and there was part of the 2 on these? 2 Lock Shop. So, if I had storage, or didn't 3 MR. : No. 3 have space for it, I would ask the Lock Shop, 4 MR. : Okay. But someone 4 hey, can I put this in your room because I 5 received them and somehow, it ended up in 5 don't haviiiiiiiii 6 Building Four? 6 MR. : And it's locked up, it's 7 MR. : Yes. 7 secured? 8 MR. : Okay. And what about - 8 MR. : Yes, secured. Yeah. 9 you said that's some of them - what about the 9 They're the only ones with a key. Nobody else 10 other items? Was there anything housed at the 10 could get in there. 11 MCC? 11 MR. : So, we mentioned 12 MR. : Yeah. I had the 12 everything that's on there, pretty much all the 13 recorders, and I had the rack. I had it stored 13 NiceVision equipment, except for the cameras. 14 downstairs or in another room. I remember, 14 MR. : Hmm. 15 because it was important, so I made sure when I 15 MR. : What happened to the 16 came in, I ut it in MCC. 16 cameras? 17 MR. : Where? 17 MR. : That's what happened. I 18 MR. : So, we didn't have to go 18 think the cameras went to Building Four. I was 19 look for it. It might have been in the 30 19 looking for it, and that's what ended up at 20 Percent Room or in my Video Room, but I think 20 Building Four and maybe some decoders. 21 it was in the 30 Percent Room. 21 MR. : So, you think all, but 22 MR. : What's the 30 Percent 22 that's - you mentioned right now that all the 23 Room? 23 NiceVision e ui ent ended up there. 24 MR. : It's, right before you go 24 MR. : Hmm. 25 to the loading dock, there's like a Ready Room 25 MR. : So, you think the cameras EFTA00126345 41 42 1 also got lsi l, 1 MR. : Hmm. 2 MR. : Yes. Well, they might 2 MR. : -- around this time or 3 have got shipped, but nobody told me. Whenever 3 back in November 2018? So, that's two 4 they came in came in. I'm not too sure. 4 differentiiiiiiiiiwe're talking about. 5 MR. : You're not sure what S MR. : Yeah, two different 6 happened to the cameras? 6 timing, yeah. 7 MR. : Yeah. 7 MR. : So, when do you think the 8 MR. : Do you believe the cameras 8 cameras and sent to -? 9 got shipped or no? 9 MR. : I think the cameras came 10 MR. : Yeah, they got shipped, 10 later. 11 but they ended up going to Building Four. 11 MR. : Okay. 12 Whenever they came in because I remember 12 MR. : The recorders and 13 looking for them and that was one of the 13 everythin came right away. 14 things, I had to figure out what happened to 14 MR. : Okay. 15 the actual - because we were going to network 15 MR. : Yeah. 16 cameras - so I had to figure out where they 16 MR. : So, when do you think the 17 were at. And they weren't at the rear gate. 17 cameras came? 18 MR. : Okay. When do you recall 18 MR. : Probably after all of 19 looking for them? 19 this, so ma be in November. 20 MR. : I don't really remember. 20 MR. : Okay. 21 This is probably around the same time I 21 MR. : No, not November. So, it 22 probably sent this email. I was trying to 22 probably came around November 19th, that's when 23 figure out where everything was at. 23 everythiniiiiiiiii 24 MR. : The cameras. So, do you 24 MR. : So, November 2019, after 25 think the cameras went to Building Eight -- 25 Epstein? 43 44 1 MR. : Yes, after Epstein. 1 you an email. This email is from you dated 2 MR. : Do you know why there was 2 Se fill)r5th 2019, at 8:52 a.m. to IM 3 such a big delay and why (Indiscernible 3 IIIII, Matthew Bailey, Justin 4 *00:28:40iiIIIIIII 4 Houston, and Steve Smith. 5 MR. : Because, like, when you 5 MR. : Mm-hmm. 6 order cameras, if you're going to order, like, 6 MR. : Subject is "MCC New York 7 300 cameras there's usually a backlog of six 7 70E9F." 8 months or eight months. It's not going to be 8 MR. : Mm-hmm. 9 something you're going to get right away from a 9 MR. : And that's the initial 10 vendor. 10 email and it looks like there's a response back 11 MR. : Was there any other reason 11 from Justin Houston. The initial email from 12 why the cameras were not shipped? 12 you states, "Good morning. There's a 13 MR. : Oh, and there may be a 13 discrepant with 135 dome cameras." 14 signature or something. Because I wasn't in 14 MR. : Mm-hmm. 15 charge, so I couldn't really sign for anything. 15 MR. : "The proposal part number 16 That was a part of the problem. So, when stuff 16 was Wycon I M62WRB9. 17 was gettiiiiiiiiiid. 17 MR. : Mm-hmm. 18 MR. : Was there ever 18 MR. : I received 135 of Wycon 19 communication between MCC, were you able to 19 cameras part number," and it states a part 20 (Indiscernible *00:29:05) any communication 20 number. "What is the best way to fix this 21 between MCC or yourself and SigNet, asking 21 problem? The cameras I received are not part 22 SigNet not to shi the cameras? 22 of the ap roved hardware list for the BOP." 23 MR. : No. I would never tell 23 MR. : Hmm. 24 them not to shi the cameras. No. 24 MR. : Justin Houston responds on 25 MR. : So, we're going to show 25 September 5th, at 8:58 a.m., ' , this EFTA00126346 45 46 1 issue is the model number changed because you 1 MR. : Hold on. No, we're trying 2 had us wait to order the cameras." 2 to figure -. Not hold off, but we have to make 3 MR. : Hmm. 3 sure that - anything we install on the BOP 4 MR. • "The cameras you received 4 network - we have to make sure that it's 5 are part of the replacement model." 5 approved on the list as far as for 6 MR. : Hmm. 6 (Indiscernible *00:31:29) and everything else. 7 MR. • "My recommendation, with 7 We can't just order anything and get it 8 the rush to get all this installed, would be to 8 installed. 9 open a magic ticket and request it be added to 9 So, if the original part number was for 10 the approved list. 10 these cameras, they would have to ship these 11 MR. : Hmm. 11 cameras. And if the part number changed before 12 MR. : The biggest issue we have 12 they send it to us, they have to notify if the 13 right now is that 90 percent of the cameras on 13 part number changed, then we have to get it 14 the approved list are EOL." Take a look at 14 approved through Computer Services before we 15 this and let me know if you recognize that 15 install them. We can't just install anything 16 email. 16 on the network. 17 MR. : Yes, I remember this 17 MR. : Okay. lust to give you an 18 email, yes. 18 understandin . We spoke with Justin Houston -- 19 MR. : Okay. 19 MR. : Mm-hmm. 20 MR. : But I'm not in charge of 20 MR. -- and one of the things 21 saying you can't send cameras, so. 21 that Justin Houston told us is they send you 22 MR. : But that says you - the 22 all that stuff, and in his communication with 23 statement up top from Justin is - it clearly 23 you, you advised him not to ship the cameras -- 24 states that you told him to hold off on 24 MR. : Cameras. 25 ordering and sending the cameras. 25 MR. : -- because there's no 47 48 1 where to house the cameras. 1 like, we get it. 2 MR. : Yeah, that was the biggest 2 MR. : Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 3 issue, yes. 3 MR. : Right, hey, there's 4 MR. : So, there's no way to 4 nowhere to house it. 5 house the cameras, so you told him not to ship 5 MR. : Mm-hmm. 6 the cameras, hold off on shipping the cameras 6 MR. : If that is an issue, you 7 until you get the okay for shipping the 7 can tell us. ev. we had nowhere to house it. 8 cameras, until there's space to do it. 8 MR. : Yes. 9 MR. : Mm-hmm. 9 MR. : But if that's a 10 MR. : Until you guys have space 10 communication between both you guys, just be up 11 to house the cameras. 11 front and say, hey, no, I told him to hold off 12 MR. : Mm-hmm. 12 on it. 13 MR. : Because 300 cameras. I 13 MR. : No. The hold off was, 14 think the order states there's about 300 14 this - the cameras have to be approved on a 15 cameras -- 15 (Indiscernible *00:32:38) list. And the 16 MR. : Mm-hmm. 16 problem was the cameras that I had requested, 17 MR. -- right? 17 BOP went and changed, whoever in Central Office 18 MR. : Yes. 18 - the original proposal was for access cameras 19 MR. : That's a lot of cameras. 19 and the problem was these cameras were not 20 MR. : Yeah. 20 going to work on the NiceVision. When you 21 MR. : I'm guessing you need a 21 added them to the software app. I make sure 22 lot of space. 22 every time we got something that it's going to 23 MR. : Yes. 23 work, because I know when you order a big bulk 24 MR. : So.. this - I mean, I'm 24 like that, you can't just send it back. You 25 not saying there's anything wrong with it, 25 can't say, hey, I don't have the right stuff, EFTA00126347 49 so 1 because it's not going to work. And that's 1 approved list, you can't have these cameras in 2 part of the problem now. Because these Wycon 2 the institution. 3 cameras, 300 of them, I don't know if they're 3 MR. : Okay. 4 at MCC now, but when I was leaving MCC, they 4 MR. : Because it's just a big 5 were never installed because the next year the 5 order. 6 Pogo cameras got installed because the Wycon 6 MR. : So, that's why -- 7 cameras never really worked with the 7 MR. : (Indiscernible *00:33:47). 8 NiceVision. That's why I was telling everybody 8 MR. -- so, that's why you told 9 to hold off. Because I knew it was going to be 9 him to hold off on -- 10 a problem with the network. 10 MR. : Yes -- 11 MR. : Okay. So that's what 11 MR. : -- shipping it? 12 clarifies. 12 MR. : -- shipping it, yes. 13 MR. : Yes. 13 MR. : So, you had to verify the 14 MR. : So, when this order was 14 actual -- 15 placed, and this bulk order was placed, you're 15 MR. : Mm-hmm. 16 saying there was an issue with the cameras? 16 MR. : -- part number? 17 MR. : Yes, yes. Because they 17 MR. : Yes. But this, I know 18 have to have a certain plug-in to work on the 18 you're talking about this, but this really has 19 system, and we have to make sure, hey these are 19 nothing to do with -. 20 the cameras we're going to order, and these are 20 MR. : Okay. 21 the ones that are going to get installed. BOP, 21 MR. : Yeah. 22 somebody changed the part number and I'm, like, 22 MR. : So, that's back in - when 23 hold off on it, we've got to make sure these 23 did you tell them, when did you initially 24 cameras are on our approved list, because they 24 figure out the fact there was an issue with the 25 have to sign off on it. If it's not on the 25 parts that were ordered? 51 52 1 MR. : Right away. 1 I spoke to Computer Service Because he 2 MR. : Right away, okay. 2 would have to send a trouble ticket to get it 3 MR. : Yes. 3 approved; these cameras approved on the list. 4 MR. : Who did you contact in 4 MR. : So, you think Computer 5 regards to -? 5 Services 6 MR. : I contacted Justin Houston 6 MR. : Mm-hmm. 7 and I told about the problem, as far as 7 MR. 8 the cameras. 8 MR. : Mm-hmm. 9 MR. : But wasn't there 9 MR. : And you think you spoke to 10 yet. This is oing back to November 10 him and told him -? 11 MR. : Oh. 11 MR. : Because you have to send 12 MR. -- November, it was 12 in a trouble ticket, like this says, to make 13 shipped; the order was placed in September -- 13 sure it's approved on the list before it gets 14 MR. : September. 14 ordered. 15 MR. -- of 2018. 15 MR. : So, he would have to 16 MR. : Yeah. 16 create a trouble ticket -. 17 MR. : Let's just say October. 17 MR. : Ticket to get this 18 MR. : Yes. 18 approved, es. *00:34:49). 19 MR. : The estimate was October. 19 MR. : And do you remember 20 MR. : Mm-hmm. 20 creating a ticket at all? 21 MR. : Did you contact anybody at 21 MR. pretty sure, if it 22 BOP and let them know, hey, listen, there's a 22 says I spoke to , then he yeah 23 problem with the order? 23 (Indiscernible *00:35:07). Yeah IIIII, yeah, 24 MR. : I spoke to whoever was in 24 he was aware of it. The Wycon cameras. 25 charge at that time. So, Maybe or - oh, 25 Because the part number changed. EFTA00126348 53 54 1 MR. : But it basically sounds 1 things, yes. 2 like, based on what he said, the part number 2 MR. : So, what - based on this, 3 changed because it was -. 3 like, according to the contract - what was the 4 MR. : Everything waited too 4 cameras tiiiiiiiiiuys ordered? 5 long. Because I can't -- 5 MR. : 350, (Indiscernible 6 MR. : -- (Indiscernible 6 *00:35:49 licenses. 7 X00:35:22 habit. 7 MR. : No, I think it was split 8 MR. : --Iiiiiiand I can't sign 8 up. I think it was 75 and -. 9 off on it. That's why was on the email 9 MR. : Oh. (Indiscernible 10 because he's the one that has to sign off on 10 *00:35:57). Oh, 1Q. Yes, this part number 11 cameras. I can't sign off on anything. I can 11 right here. 12 do my recommendations, but I can't sign off and 12 MR. : And you -. What -? Can 13 get anythiiiiiiiiied to the institution. 13 you read it out so we can -. 14 MR. : But that's different from 14 MR. : 1QM62WR-B9. One Quebec- 15 what you said about the part number not 15 Mike-6-2-Whisk -Romero - Bravo-9. 16 matching u to what you wanted -- 16 MR. : And there's another one, 17 MR. : Mm-hmm. 17 too, right? Because that's only one set of 18 MR. : -- to him stating that, 18 cameras. 19 hey, no -- 19 MR. : That's the pointer 20 MR. : You waited too long, yes. 20 cameras. That really didn't have anything to 21 MR. -- you waited too long. 21 do with it. These are the dome cameras. 22 MR. : Yes. 22 MR. : So, there was nothing 23 MR. : That's two different 23 wrong with the dome cameras? 24 things. 24 MR. : They never really worked - 25 MR. : That's two different 25 even when they changed the part number, this 55 56 1 never worked on the system. We never even 1 MR. at Computer 2 installed these cameras. 2 Services. 3 MR. : So, the dome cameras never 3 MR. : Through Computer Services. 4 got installed? 4 MR. : And you guys created a 5 MR. : We had them on hand when 5 ticket, -- 6 they came in eventually, but we have to order - 6 MR. : Ticket. 7 the next year, those are the cameras we 7 MR. : -- and back in October, 8 installed. I installed a few of these cameras 8 November 2018? '18, right, because -. 9 and I had issues, so we had to go to Pelco from 9 MR. : This is all '19. 10 the order from the next year. 10 MR. : But that's '19. 11 MR. : So, no matter what, you 11 MR. : Yeah. 12 had issues, but do you recall telling Justin - 12 MR. : But I'm talking back then. 13 or you said, right now, that you told Justin to 13 MR. : Oh, back here? 14 hold off because there was issues with the 14 MR. : Back here, when the 15 cameras. 15 initial order -. 16 MR. : (Indiscernible *00:36:55). 16 MR. : Yes, I told him that there 17 MR. : You recognized an issue 17 was going to be an issue. But I can't really - 18 right off the back. 18 . I mean I can tell them, hey, hold off, but 19 MR. : And it has to get approved 19 they're going to ship whatever they're going to 20 on the (Indiscernible *00:36:57) list. It was 20 ship. 21 two different issues, but -. 21 MR. : Oh, so, I should clarify. 22 MR. : Okay. So initially, you 22 So, maybe that's where the confusing part is. 23 recognized there was an issue and you told 23 Justin said over here. 24 24 MR. : Mm-hmm. 25 MR. : Mm-hmm. 25 MR. : You're talking about 2018. EFTA00126349 57 58 1 MR. : Yes. 1 stuff goin on. 2 MR. : His statement to us was, 2 MR. : And then, he didn't 3 when those recorders in 2018 were shipped -- 3 receive any communication from you up until 4 MR. : Yep. 4 later on -- 5 MR. : -- he didn't ship out the 5 MR. : 2019. 6 cameras -- 6 MR. : -- in 2019. 7 MR. : The cameras. 7 MR. : Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 8 MR. : -- in 2018 because based 8 MR. : And we have - let me show 9 on his conversation with you in 2018. 9 you another email. This is dated - this is 10 MR. : Yes. The part number was 10 another email, but this is not between you and 11 wrong. Yes. 11 him. This looks like Justin Houston -- 12 MR. : No, no. That's not what 12 MR. : Hmm. 13 he said. 13 MR. -- to Fred Pridemore at 14 MR. : Oh. 14 SigNet, Inc. 15 MR. : He said that you stated 15 MR. Mm-hmm. 16 that there was no where to house -- 16 MR. : Fred Pridemore. And this 17 MR. : House them, yes. 17 is dated August 19, 2019. 18 MR. : -- the cameras -- 18 MR. : Okay. 19 MR. : Yes. 19 MR. : Right. It says, "Fred, I 20 MR. : -- in 2018, so you asked 20 finally got the all-clear from the site to 21 him to hold off on shipping. 21 order the cameras -" -- 22 MR. : Yeah, we had to figure out 22 MR. : Yes. 23 some stuff lo istically. There was -- 23 MR. : "-- on this job." 24 MR. : But just to -. 24 MR. : Yes. 25 MR. : -- there was a lot of 25 MR. : "Lines ten to 14 on the 59 60 1 (Indiscernible *00:38:30). Line 12 needs to be 1 an expensive part, but the cameras, I couldn't 2 changed to the art number at -- 2 sign off on. Because remember, I was going 3 MR. : Mm-hmm. 3 back and forth about the cameras, hey, I don't 4 MR. -- 334 each." That means 4 think these cameras are going to work. They 5 - and he, Justin Houston, pointed us to this 5 already shipped that stuff for whatever reason. 6 saying that's when he got the final all-clear. 6 When it came to the cameras and I was, like, I 7 MR. : Final, okay, yes. 7 don't think this is going to work, and they 8 MR. : From MCC to finally order 8 actually needed another signature, and I 9 the parts. 9 couldn't sign for it. I couldn't say, hey, 10 MR. : Yeah, because there was, 10 change thiliiiiiiimber. 11 there had to be a signature and I couldn't sign 11 MR. : Wait a minute, say that 12 for it. That was another problem, too, because 12 again? Ex lain that slowly. 13 there was nobody in charge. No bills am I 13 MR. : Okay. So, I knew 14 assigned for, to get this stuff - hey, these 14 initially that the cameras weren't going to 15 cameras got to get here, somebody's got to sign 15 work on the system. Because I had spoke with 16 for it. Because during this time, when this 16 Justin. And then, has to sign off on it. 17 happened, there was reaiiiiiibody in charge. I 17 And then I s oke to -- 18 think, I don't know if was still there 18 MR. This is 2018 or '19? 19 or not there, but to get the cameras shipped, 19 MR. '19. 20 there had to be a signature, and I couldn't 20 MR. No, no. Let's go -. 21 sign for an 21 MR. Oh. 22 MR. : So, there was no - a 22 MR. Forget about '19. 23 signature wasn't needed for the recorders? 23 MR. '19. 24 Because the recorders are an expensive part. 24 MR. Let's speak about -- 25 MR. : The recorders. Yeah, it's 25 MR. '18. EFTA00126350 61 62 1 MR. : -- '18 only. 1 MR. : All right, so that was - 2 MR. : Only '18. Yes. I just 2 everyone held off and it only because 3 knew it was a problem, so I probably told them, 3 logistically there was no way to house them? 4 hey, hold off on shipping the actual cameras. 4 MR. : There was no way -- 5 MR. : Okay. So -. 5 MR. : Okay. 6 MR. : Until we figure out, like, 6 MR. -- to make sure they were 7 where we're going to house it, and what's going 7 secure. 8 to go on with the cameras. 8 MR. : Okay. 9 MR. : Okay. So that's, you held 9 MR. : Because you can see, 10 off. And the next communication, the next time 10 that's a lot of money. You can't just - and 11 you told him 11 everythiniiiiiiiiiars there. 12 MR. Ship it. 12 MR. : And 350 cameras is a lot 13 MR. -- ship the cameras would 13 of cameras to house. 14 be after -- 14 MR. : Yes. 15 MR. Yes. 15 MR. : Understood. That's fine. 16 MR. -- Jeffrey Epstein's 16 MR. : Yeah. 17 death? 17 MR. Do you mind if I -- 18 MR. : Yes. 18 MR. : Co ahead, sorry. 19 MR. : Okay. That's what we 19 MR. -- just clarify. In '18, 20 needed. 20 and just want to clean this up. In 2018, it 21 MR. : Oh, sorry. 21 was a matter of the storage -- 22 MR. : That's it. Everything 22 MR. : The storage. 23 else that happened afterwards makes no 23 MR. • -- was the issue. 24 difference, but -. 24 MR. : Yeah. Yeah. 25 MR. : Difference. Yh. 25 MR. : And not -. 63 64 1 MR. : Not getting the cameras, 1 MR. : Yes. 2 no. Well, it was 2 MR. : Okay. 3 MR. : It was not the model. 3 MR. : But none of that, like, 4 MR. : The model was an issue, 4 the CS, , none of that was addressed 5 and then storage. Because when I spoke to 5 up until -- 6 Justin about this, the initial, if this is the 6 MR. : Until this. 7 -. This is not what we sent up to BOP. The 7 MR. • -- '19. 8 initial, everything that I sent up to BOP, 8 MR. : Yes. 9 everything was supposed to be access cameras. 9 MR. : The end of '19? 10 They went up to the Central Office, they get 10 MR. : Yes, when the actual, they 11 another approval. They change the part number. 11 were going to get installed. We had to make 12 When I saw the part number, I'm, like ,wait, 12 sure that everything was going to work on the 13 hold a minute -- 13 network. 14 MR. Okay. 14 MR. : Sorry. ASAC 15 MR. -- this is wrong. 15 MR. I'll ask one question 16 MR. Okay. 16 now, and then I'll let you ask a couple of 17 MR. : Yeah. And we don't have 17 more, looking at your question list. 18 space for it an ay -- 18 Once you had the space and they had the 19 MR. : Okay. 19 right cameras in October 2018, were you guys at 20 MR. : -- so, can you hold off 20 the institution in a position to install those 21 and -- 21 right awa an va 22 MR. : Okay. And that's after this 22 MR. : No. No. 23 initial -- 23 MR. Okay. All right. 24 MR. : Yes. 24 MR. : It took - even after that 25 MR. Ur Okay. 25 happened - it took TDY help about a year and a EFTA00126351 65 66 1 half pulling fiber through the whole building, 1 infrastructure, yes. Because I think out of 2 upgrading the infrastructure before we could 2 the TDY - I don't know when - I know there was 3 even install cameras. And then -- 3 TOY hel when first came. It was 4 MR. IIIIIii ikay. 4 and (Phonetic Sp. *00:42:39). They 5 MR. : -- (Indiscernible 5 came from Texas. And we pretty much fired up 6 *00:41:45) to install the cameras, that was 6 one unit to make sure, hey, this is how we're 7 another -_22h. 7 going to - because we have to pipe all that in 8 MR. IIIII: Yeah. I iiiiiianted to 8 for the cameras. You have to put a conduit in. 9 confirm that, and I think will ask you a 9 You can't have the wires exposed, into each 10 couple more questions now about what you were 10 camera. And where are you going to actually 11 getting into. 11 set the cameras up. So, that took, like about 12 MR. : Okay. 12 a month for us to do that -. The first unit 13 MR. Thanks. 13 took like a month. 14 MR. : At that point, now let's 14 MR. : And how many housing units 15 talk about August 10, 2019. Like, this is the 15 are at the MCC? 16 day that -- 16 MR. : So, there's the female 17 MR. : Yeah. Yeah. 17 unit, unit on the second floor. The WITSEC 18 MR. : -- Mr. Epstein died. How 18 Unit on three. 5 North, 5 South. 7 North, 7 19 much of that conduit and wiring was actually 19 South. 9 North, SHU, 10 South, 11 South, 11 20 completed? 20 North. So, 11 housing units. 21 MR. : I think we started one 21 MR. : And as of August, only one 22 housing ilisaal_then I started -. 22 housing unit was done at that point? 23 MR. IIIIIIIII: That's all that was 23 MR. : I don't really -. 24 completed at that point? 24 Honestly, I don't remember. There's a lot 25 MR. : Well, as far as the 25 going on. 67 68 1 MR. I'm talking an idea at 1 still working, like, two or three times a week 2 that point. 2 on overtime installing conduit, and running 3 MR. : Yeah. I think during that 3 wires, and installing cameras. And even with 4 time, if and came TDY, that's when 4 all that said, there was still - I remember I 5 maybe one housing unit was totally piped in and 5 went through all 11 housing units - I still 6 maybe ready to go, but even then, it wasn't 6 didn't finish 11 South because that's open 7 ready to go because you still needed a fiber 7 dorm. Unit Two never got finished and the 8 upgrade. We could have put it on single mode, 8 sallyports never got finished. And some 9 but it would have had issues. It wasn't -. 9 outside cameras. So, even after that happened, 10 And then, we still didn't even have CAT-S. 10 three years it still was a long undertaking. 11 There was a lost of stuff we just didn't have 11 MR. : So, even after three years 12 to finishiiiiiiiiiade. 12 13 MR. : Okay. So, after Mr. 13 MR. : Yes. 14 Epstein's death, did they bring in more 14 MR. -- it's still not 15 employees? 15 completed? 16 MR. : Yes, they brought a lot of 16 MR. : It wasn't completed when 17 TDY help, and that's when a lot of stuff 17 we left, and they shut down that jail. As far 18 happened. 18 as the IPcE2f2la that was not completed, no. 19 MR. : And once they brought in 19 MR. IIIIIIIII: And that was just the wire 20 all the employees, how long did it take to 20 itself that never got completed? 21 actually put the - forget about the cameras - 21 MR. : No, no. Just hooking up 22 how long did it take to put the wiring in? 22 cameras and the wiring. We put in -. Pretty 23 MR. : After Epstein's death - so 23 much set up the infrastructure where each floor 24 they were closing down the prison in August of, 24 you could go to a hub to install cameras 25 well, we found out August-September. I was 25 everywhere. EFTA00126352 69 70 1 MR. : Yeah. 1 MR. : They were pulled out to do 2 MR. : But as far as finishing 2 other thiiiiiiiiiiwhen it came to UI. 3 the actual units, some of that was not 3 MR. : What was SigNet's role in 4 complete, no. 4 the installation? 5 MR. : Okay. And do you recall 5 MR. : They were supposed to do a 6 when the majority of the work was done? 6 boatload of work, but we ended up doing a lot 7 MR. : I was, like, I was working 7 of the work inhouse. 8 overtime all the time, so it was -. 8 MR. That's (Indiscernible 9 MR. : Was it like a couple of 9 *00:45:54). 10 months? Three months, four months? 10 MR. Yeah. Because -. 11 MR. : It was a couple of years. 11 MR. Because over here on line, 12 I was still working on it -- 12 where is that line? Look SigNet labor says 13 MR. : It was still ongoing? 13 243,000. 14 MR. : -- yeah. It was still 14 MR. : 43,000 yeah. 15 ongoing. I was still working on it. It was 15 MR. : What was their job? 16 never really complete. Because COVID happened. 16 MR. : Their job. Okay, so the 17 We had TDY help, and we had the gun thing, 17 main thing vie were supposed to do was run pipe 18 where we had more people come in. So, there 18 everywhere and like -- 19 was a lot of stuff that needed to -. 19 MR. : You guys were? Like, the 20 MR. : So, they were continuously 20 MCC. 21 being peo le TDY to help with it? 21 MR. : -- right. MCC was 22 MR. : Yes. 22 supposed to run the pipe everywhere, put the 23 MR. : Okay. And did the people 23 box up, and they were just going to come in and 24 actually continue doing work for the cameras, 24 mount the cameras up and put it on the network, 25 or were they pulled out to do other things? 25 but it was going to take too long, so we just 71 72 1 started doing everything in-house. We started 1 MR. : No. After Mr. Epstein's 2 - well I started - just installing cameras, and 2 death, that's when they came and installed the 3 putting them up, and letting them start 3 recorders. Because this was all on-hand, the 4 recording. So, you have more view. Because 4 new recorders and the rack. But they had to 5 one camera we had on the unit, that wasn't 5 get the okay for them to - well, and I called 6 going to solve everything. 6 Justin, too, about this. I was, like, hey 7 So, we had one camera on the unit, and 7 we're on the list, but we weren't on the list 8 after, like, all this started happening and 8 to get up raded. 9 especially, a staff member got assaulted. 9 MR. : Okay. 10 That's why I added another camera on the 10 MR. : So, but then this 11 network, one on top of the bubble, so you could 11 happened, so they came, like, the next day, and 12 see like - it's a 270 - so, you can see like 12 I stayed there to -. 13 this way. You can pretty much see the whole 13 MR. : They stayed for a couple 14 unit. 14 weeks -? 15 So, that's the best I could do at the time 15 MR. : Oh, just a couple days. 16 for all of the housing units that only had one 16 Just to get the new recorders in. 17 camera. And then, eventually we started going 17 MR. : That's it? 18 unit by unit and just installing 12 to 13, 18 MR. : Yeah, it was -. 19 however miiiiiiiiias on each unit. 19 MR. : They didn't help with the 20 MR. : Okay. And how long did 20 cameras? 21 SigNet stay after Mr. Epstein's death? Did 21 MR. : No. 22 they come and sta for a while -- 22 MR. : So, you guys still 23 MR. : Oh, yeah, I wouldn't -- 23 installed the cameras yourselves? 24 MR. : -- to finish up 24 MR. : Yeah, we installed all the 25 everything, or did they -? 25 cameras. EFTA00126353 73 74 1 MR. : ASAC , anything else 1 MR. : So, it's not like the 2 on that? 2 institution was without -- 3 MR. : Yeah, a couple of questions. 3 MR. : Cameras, no. 4 So, based on what you just said, I just want to 4 MR. -- cameras, yeah, between -. 5 make sure I'm clear. We talked about the fact 5 MR. : The cameras were always 6 that if you had the new cameras in October of 6 working. That's the misinterpretation of the 7 2018, you would not have been able to install 7 whole thin . 8 them based on the lack of wiring. 8 MR. : Okay. 9 MR. : Yes. 9 MR. : The cameras were always 10 MR. : So, let me ask the same thing 10 working. 11 about August 10th, the day of Epstein's death. 11 MR. : All right. I just wanted to 12 If you had received the cameras before that 12 make sure to get that on the record as well. 13 day, would you have been able to install them 13 And the final question - I don't think, 14 before that time? 14 , you were going to ask this - is in 15 MR. : No. 15 regard to the other contract, Anixter, I 16 MR. : Okay. And, because it looks 16 believe is the company. 17 like - yeah - the cameras I think finally came 17 MR. : Yes. 18 in October 2019. 18 MR. : (Indiscernible *00:49:10). 19 The second question is - let me get back 19 MR. Indiscernible *00:49:11). 20 to my notes here - after Epstein's death, as 20 MR. : I had a (Indiscernible 21 you just said, SigNet came in, they got the new 21 *00:49:12). I'll show him the email also. 22 recorders up and running, and you were able to 22 MR. : Yeah. Perfect. Okay. Then 23 have video coverage with the old cameras on the 23 I'll let 24 old recorders, correct? 24 MR. : No, no. You can ask the 25 MR. : Yes. 25 question. I'll give him the email, so, if you 75 76 1 want to refer to the email yourself -- 1 MR. : Oh, that's the contracting 2 MR. : Mm-hmm. 2 officer at the time. He took 3 MR. -- I'll provide it to him. 3 (Phonetic Sp. *00:50:05) spot. He was, like, 4 MR. : Yeah, so basically ,my 4 the cashier. 5 question was going to be in regard to that 5 MR. : He's a - it says Financial 6 contract, do you know approximately when the 6 Program S ecialist? 7 materials from that contract came in? 7 MR. : Yes, yes. 8 MR. : This was -. 8 MR. : Okay. And it was sent to 9 MR. : And again, it looked to be 9 a bunch of people includin 10 primarily wiring, from my understanding of the 10 (Phonetic Sp. *00:S0:14), 11 order. 11 yourself, and it says, subject is "Anxiter 12 MR. : The cable. 12 TP12240 and SigNet tech." It says, "Good 13 MR. : Yeah. 13 afternoon, Ms. . After reviewing my cost 14 MR. : Is this fiber? I don't -. 14 report for the Central Office samples, I went 15 No, that came a little bit later, because we 15 ahead and asked , our Com Tech, on the 16 didn't have fiber anything. 16 status of these particular POs, and he advised 17 MR. : Okay. You didn't have 17 me that they haven't been able to receive the 18 fiber -? 18 fiber cable, and without the cable, they can't 19 MR. : Maybe we had fiber, but 19 proceed with the camera systems." 20 then we had to do another order for fiber 20 MR. : Mm-hmm. 21 because the wanted to change stuff, so. 21 MR. : "He mentioned that the 22 MR. : And this, is it the new 22 company is requiring some sort of 23 order for -? I want to read this just for the 23 documentation. He should be able to provide 24 record. This says -. This is from 24 you with the details." 25 Who's 25 MR. : Yeah, because I - like I EFTA00126354 77 78 1 said - I couldn't sign for anything. So, 1 MR. : Where did you guys get the 2 somebody else would have to sign it. I could 2 conduits to run? 3 advise as much as I can, but I can't sign it. 3 MR. : Mainly, I got most of my 4 MR. : So, you recall, that's not 4 conduit from Sheridan. That was the vendor I 5 the new order, that was the previous? 5 used. 6 MR. : Yeah, probably the 6 MR. : So, you guys bought it? 7 previous order. 7 MR. : Yeah, locally, yes. 8 MR. : And fiber was never used? 8 MR. : Locally. And so, you 9 MR. : Yes, it was used, yes. 9 bought the conduits from them. What about the 10 MR. : Later on? 10 wiring itself? 11 MR. : Later on, yes. 11 MR. : That was from Anxiter. 12 MR. : But not for the initial -. 12 Because that's the CAT-6 I use. I got 13 MR. : The initial thing was to 13 everythiniiiiiiiiiixter. 14 try to get - well, get the pipe in, and then do 14 MR. : All right, so it was from 15 a fiber. 15 an outside vendor? 16 MR. : Wasn't piping already 16 MR. : Yes, yes. 17 there? So, told us that you guys 17 MR. : Okay, so there was actual 18 had, like, the conduits laid in Building Four. 18 contracts for that. 19 MR. : I didn't know anything 19 MR. : Yes. For the fiber, yes. 20 about that. 20 The conduit, we just placed the order and just 21 MR. : Or was that ordered 21 bought conduit when we needed it, as much as we 22 (Indiscernible *00:51:17)? 22 needed to do a unit. 23 MR. : That was maybe for 23 MR. : Okay. 24 something else, or maybe it was ordered. I 24 MR. And so, again, I think that 25 don't know. 25 email was from April 2019, so it sounds like, 79 80 1 at least at that point, you guys had not 1 him, "I would like to mock-up a unit before we 2 received the Anixter materials. Do you have 2 bet started to see what we needed -- 3 any idea when that finally showed up? 3 MR. : Mm-hmm. 4 MR. : It was so much stuff 4 MR. : -- 20 dome IPs, five 180- 5 coming in, and like I said -- 5 degree IP," five - I mean two PTC, dome IPs. 6 MR. : Okay. 6 MR. : Yes. 7 MR. -- we had very limited 7 MR. : Do you recognize this 8 space, so. 8 email? 9 MR. : No, I understand. 9 MR. : Yes. 10 MR. : Mm-hmm. 10 MR. : And this is prior to them 11 MR. HORNEE: I just wanted to see if you 11 shipping the cameras. This is just -. Do you 12 had a recollection. Thanks. 12 know why io ,a ed them for these cameras? 13 MR. : I have -. 13 MR. : That's probably when we 14 MR. And that is all I have, 14 finished the piping on our unit. So, it was 15 15 probably in March when we finished the piping. 16 MR. : No problem. I have 16 MR. : Which unit was that? 17 another email here. It looks like it's a 17 MR. : 11 North, maybe. 18 communication between yourself and Justin 18 MR. : So, this is the first unit 19 Houston on Frida March 22nd, and -? 19 you -? 20 MR. : What year? 2000? 20 MR. : Yeah, we did, yes. 21 MR. : 2019. 21 MR. : Okay, so this is the first 22 MR. : Okay. Mm-hmm. 22 unit you're trying to get done, so -. But this 23 MR. : And it says, "Good morning. 23 was before the cameras, anything came in? 24 Is it possible to overnight some cameras for 24 MR. : Yes. 25 MCC New York project?" And you were asking 25 MR. : So, you started doing one EFTA00126355 81 82 1 unit? 1 Because sometimes they'd have to send a packet 2 MR. : Yes, we did one unit, as 2 up, so I don't know if it was the SIS or the 3 far as the piping and see where you're going to 3 lieutenants that saved video. Every 4 put everyiiiiiiiii 4 institution is kind of different when it comes 5 MR. : So, this is basically, you 5 to who caiiiiiiiiie video. 6 ordered these pieces just to see where 6 MR. : Is there something called 7 everythiniiiiiiiiiit? 7 SuperVision? 8 MR. : Yes, and how would it work 8 MR. : SuperVision, yes. 9 on our system. 9 MR. : So, you would have to have 10 MR. : Okay, no problem. I'm 10 a specifiiiiiiiiiifor it? 11 going to jump onto the next set of questions. 11 MR. : No, SuperVision - yes, you 12 Is that o4'yl 12 would have to log for - well, no. But 13 MR. IIIII: Yeah, yeah, it's good with me. 13 SuperVision is just mainly for passwords and 14 I've got everything on the previous subject 14 stuff. It's not really for anything else. 15 that I needed. Thank you. 15 MR. : Oh, okay. But to view it, 16 MR. : Okay. Now regarding the 16 but don'tliiiiiiii to log in to see? 17 NiceVision System, can you confirm that only 17 MR. : Yeah, that's the regular 18 the SIS staff and electronics technicians had 18 NiceVision -- 19 the ability to replay, save and export videos, 19 MR. : Okay. 20 or could certain other staff, like captains, 20 MR. : -- that's in control. You 21 lieutenants, anyone else review or save 21 just have to have access to Control. That's 22 recorded foots a as well? 22 the part of NiceVision. 23 MR. : I think the captain has 23 MR. : And who had access to 24 authorization. Lieutenants? I'm not too sure 24 that, jusiiiiiiiiitains and the Com Techs? 25 if they had authorization to pull video to -. 25 MR. : lust the Com Techs, yeah. 83 84 1 Maybe the lieutenants had it. I would have to 1 the operations lieutenant had access? 2 see the usernames. I'm pretty sure the 2 MR. : Access, yes. 3 lieutenants should have had it. I'm not too 3 MR. : Okay. For the standard 4 sure. 4 NiceVision users - example, anyone outside the 5 MR. : Okay. So, you're not 5 use as identified in, like, let's say for the 6 sure. You think maybe the captains, maybe the 6 people like the captain, lieutenant, things 7 lieutenants? 7 like that - can you confirm that those users 8 MR. : No. 8 were only able to view live video feeds? 9 MR. : Captains definitely? 9 MR. : Well, it's depending on 10 MR. : The captain and SIS 10 how you set up everybody's profile. Somebody's 11 definitely had the ability to pull video and 11 profile you can - mainly SIS - they can pull 12 look at video. 12 video under that profile. If you were a 13 MR. : And Com Techs. 13 lieutenant, you can probably just view live 14 MR. : And the Com Techs. The 14 viewing. Because there's - Nice comes and 15 lieutenant's office? Some of the lieutenants I 15 pretty much sets that all up before you even 16 think had their own password to look at a 16 get -. 17 video, in case something happened. lust to 17 MR. : They can see live video? 18 look at video. 18 MR. : Yeah. 19 MR. : Is that different 19 MR. : Okay. Who had the ability 20 (Indiscernible *00:55:03) between like an 20 to go back? 21 operations lieutenant and activity lieutenant? 21 MR. : I think maybe the 22 MR. : Activity, yes. Depending 22 lieutenants, too, because if there's a fight or 23 on - because you got your GS-11 and GS-9 23 something, and they needed to look back at 24 lieutenant. 24 video, and if SIS wasn't there, they probably 25 MR. : So, there's a possibility 25 would need access to look back. EFTA00126356 85 86 1 MR. : The captain? 1 MR. : Nope, I'm good. So, it sounds 2 MR. : Captain. 2 like there's just a couple of types of 3 MR. : SIS? 3 accounts. One is where you can rewind, save 4 MR. : SIS. 4 and export video, and the standard user account 5 MR. : Com Techs? 5 is just looking at the live feed. Is that 6 MR. : Com Techs. 6 correct? 7 MR. : So, basically anyone who 7 MR. Yes. 8 had access should have technically have the 8 MR. : Okay. 9 ability to review back. 9 MR. Okay. Thank you. 10 MR. : To look back, yes. 10 MR. : Now for - because they're 11 MR. : What about Control? 11 standard, as we mentioned, there's different 12 Control just live view? 12 users, right? Standard user and, like, the 13 MR. : Live view, yes. And 13 other type of users. 14 that's something we added later. They never 14 : Mm-hmm. 15 16 had a password until - well, until we started upgradingliiiiiiiiem. 15 16 MR.■ MR. computer, or -? : Can they log in from any 17 MR. : Okay. Their screens just 17 MR. : Yes, any computer that has 18 stayed live -- 18 NiceVision on the computer. 19 MR. : Live view. 19 MR. : Oh, so it had to be pre- 20 MR. -- they couldn't mess with 20 installed? 21 it. 21 MR. : Yes, it had to be pre- 22 MR. : Yeah, they couldn't go 22 installed. And some computers just have 23 back or piiiiiiiiiing, no. 23 control, they don't have access to SuperVision, 24 MR. : Okay. Anything on those 24 or to, like, o back and play video. 25 two questions? 25 MR. : Yeah. 87 88 1 MR. : They just have the 1 the camera DVR s stem? 2 control. But even in control sometimes, you 2 MR. : Not that I know of. No. 3 can play back video that's there with just the 3 MR. : So, it's just the Coms 4 controller setting. You don't need SuperVision 4 Tech? 5 actually on that computer. If your log-in 5 MR. : Well, where the DVRs are, 6 permits you to o that far. 6 SIS had Ilk I never had access to it. 7 MR. : Okay. 7 MR. : Oh SIS, sorry, I said it 8 MR. : And so, on that, Mr. 8 wrong. 9 so there's just various desktops, if you will, 9 MR. : Yeah, the SIS. 10 computers throughout the institution that had 10 MR. : Only the SIS. 11 NiceVision installed. 11 MR. : Yeah. 12 MR. : Yes. 12 MR. : So, the facilities 13 MR. : And if you had an account, you 13 managers 14 could get in there, correct? 14 MR. : We didn't have keys to get 15 MR. : Yes. 15 in that room. Because that was the SIS. I 16 MR. Okay. And are there a lot of 16 mean that's the room we were talking way before 17 shared con uters in the institution? 17 all this happened, that we needed to get this 18 MR. : Yes, everybody shares. 18 fixed and it never did until after. 19 MR. : Is that right? Like, like any 19 MR. : Lieutenant 20 other institution? 20 mentioned that downstairs in your office, the 21 MR. : Yes. 21 Coms Tech office was in the basement? 22 MR. All right. And that's 22 MR. : Yes. 23 all I have on that. Thanks. 23 MR. : Was there, like, a tower 24 MR. : Did the facilities manager 24 in your office with, like, the recorders and 25 also have keys to the dedicated room containing 25 things like that in the office? EFTA00126357 89 90 1 MR. : No. 1 MR. : Okay. But there's no 2 MR. : That gave you access to -? 2 actual, like a DVR system, recorders, or 3 MR. : No. I just had the live 3 anything like that? 4 feed from the old (Indiscernible *00:58:31), so 4 MR. : No, there was nothing in 5 I could look at the live video, and at my 5 the basement, no. 6 workstation I could look at -. I had a screen 6 MR. : Okay. Anything else ASAC 7 in my sho where I could look at the live feed. 7 8 MR. : Yeah. 8 MR. : Yeah. I just want to double 9 MR. : And then, I had my desktop 9 back to the key situation and the rooms there. 10 computer where I could log into Nice and look 10 So, the actual room with the DVR recorders, 11 at what's being recorded, or what's working on 11 right? 12 the recorders. 12 MR. : Yes. 13 MR. : But she mentioned like a 13 MR. : And so, you had a key to that 14 terminal itself. Like, all the recorders, DVRs 14 and that's -. 15 and stuff -. 15 MR. : No. I never had a key to 16 MR. : It probably looked like -. 16 that until after all of this happened. After 17 It was probably my -. That's where the public 17 18 address was. And later on, after the install, 18 MR. : Okay, so the actual - so there 19 I put in a separate, like I put a network in my 19 are two rooms. 20 shop, but that was later on. The only thing 20 MR. Yes. 21 that was in there was the public address, my 21 MR. . The way I understand it is 22 live feediiiiiiiiiworkstation. 22 there was the phone monitor room, and then 23 MR. : This is prior to the 23 within that room there's another locked room 24 August 10th, 2019? 24 that had the DVRs, correct? 25 MR. : Yes. 25 MR. : Yes, yes. 91 92 1 MR. : Okay, so you didn't have a key 1 should have the key but the Com Techs. 2 to either one of those rooms? 2 MR. : Okay. So, prior to August 3 MR. IIIIIIIII: No. 3 10th, 201iiiiiiiiid not have a key to that -- 4 MR. : Okay. Well, I'm glad I asked 4 MR. : No. We talked about it 5 because that was a little confusing. So, SIS 5 before -- 6 controlleiiiiiiiiis to both of those rooms? 6 MR. -- Recorder Room? 7 MR. : Yes, because that was the 7 MR. -- about me getting access 8 Evidence Room. And like I stated before, I was 8 to having a so I could get in that room. 9 told numerous times that we should have our own 9 MR. : But you never did. 10 key or get our stuff out of the Recorder Room. 10 MR. Okay, so -. 11 MR. : Okay. 11 MR. : I never got it, no. 12 MR. : And that's how it is at 12 MR. : You didn't have one. I'm 13 most institutions. lust the Recorder Room. 13 assuming the facilities manager didn't have one 14 Nobody else but the Com Techs have that key or 14 either then back then. 15 should. MDC Brooklyn, I have the same problem 15 MR. IIIIIIIII: No. 16 now because that room is - I don't mean to be 16 MR. : Okay. And so, you said SIS 17 talking off - but they use that room for other 17 controlled those keys. Obviously, the 18 stuff, so now you have people that do have the 18 lieutenant had it. Do you know if the SIS Tech 19 key. These two institutions are rare because 19 had the kiwi, 20 when I worked in Terre Haute, only the Com 20 MR. : The SIS Tech had the key 21 Techs had the key to go in the Recorder Room. 21 and the lieutenant, yes. 22 Nobody else should have the key. 22 MR. IIIIIiiiikay. 23 These two institutions for space or 23 MR. : And whoever was in the 24 whatever, they use an excuse and other people 24 Phone Monitoring Room or the Video Room. They 25 have the key to go in the room and nobody 25 would have the key to get in also. EFTA00126358 93 94 1 MR. : So, the phone monitor who is 1 MR. : I don't know if they have 2 just a CO that's rotating -- 2 that key or not, but usually that room is open. 3 MR. : Yes. 3 MR. Okay. 4 MR. or a staff member rotating 4 MR. : Because only the SIS would 5 through there on a quarterly basis, they would 5 have that ke 6 be given that DVR Room key, as well? 6 MR. IIIII: Okay. All right. Good. 7 MR. : They would have the key to 7 Thanks a lot for clearing that up. And that's 8 get in the room and the door is supposed to be 8 all I had on the keys. I had one more 9 locked, but usually, I get - if they're already 9 question, , if you were finished, before 10 - I couldiiiiiiiiiin the room in the back. 10 we move on to the phone call. 11 MR. : The room in the back. Is 11 MR. : Yes. 12 that locked or is it just kept open? 12 MR. : Yeah. 13 MR. : It probably should have 13 MR. The DVR and DR training, we 14 been locked. Sometimes I went in there, it was 14 saw some 15 locked, sometimes it was open. 15 MR. : Yeah. 16 MR. : Okay, so, but for the phone 16 MR. -- which I think you -. 17 monitor, they had a room, obviously to the 17 MR. : I never got training. 18 Phone Monitor Room -- 18 Everything_112.i inhouse. 19 MR. : Yes. 19 MR. IIIII: Okay. You did not take that 20 MR. -- but not the actual DVR Room 20 training? 21 21 MR. : I've never taken a 22 MR. : I'm not sure if they had 22 training. Everything I've learned is on-the- 23 that key. 23 job. 24 MR. -- but you're just saying that 24 MR. : Okay. And the version, like - 25 sometimes -? 25 so, the main thing is, when I started as a Com 95 96 1 Tech, I started in Indiana - and the version of 1 and that's all I had. Thanks. 2 NiceVision I had was, like, two generations 2 MR. : And onto the last topic. 3 before the current version when I went to MCC. 3 MR. : Mm-hmm. 4 So, when I came to MCC, I thought MCC was going 4 MR. : I'm going to show you a 5 to have the updated version, but they have the 5 document. Do recognize this? 6 old stuff, and then I had to figure out how 7 that stuff worked. 8 9 MR. IIIIIii ikay. MR. : So, I was learning 6 7 MR. MR. 8 that is? 9 MR. Sou Yes. : Can you explain to us what : This is the phone record 10 backwards.LIEtty much. 10 they probabl made me pull. 11 MR. IIIII: All right. Thanks. I know 11 MR. : Who made you pull? 12 you had provided us with an email showing, I 12 MR. : The warden or SIS. 13 forget the date. It was a certain point in 13 MR. : Okay. Can you read that? 14 time you had not had the training. I was just 14 Like, can you explain to us the date of the 15 wondering if that had changed at any time prior 15 call? 16 to the incident? 16 MR. : Okay, so the date is 8/9. 17 MR. : Up to this day, I've still 17 MR. : That's August 9th. 18 had no training -- 18 MR. : August 9th, 2019. 19 MR. : Okay. 19 MR. : And the time of the call? 20 MR. -- from NiceVision. 20 MR. : Which is 1858:03. 21 MR. : All right. Well, hang in 21 MR. : That would be 6:58 p.m. 22 there. M2y1)2_22_of these days. 22 MR. : 58, yeah, and three 23 MR. IIIIIIIII: I think I'm kind of an 23 seconds. And then -. 24 expert now because -. 24 MR. : The location. Would you 25 MR. : It sounds like it. All right, 25 be able to say where the location is? EFTA00126359 97 98 1 MR. : 6134. That's the caller 1 1858:03. They answered 19 seconds later, and 2 station. 2 then the call ended at 1919:10. 3 MR. : Do you know, offhand, 3 MR. : And what system did you 4 where that is? 4 use to pull this up? 5 MR. : I believe that was a 5 MR. : That's the PBX Phone 6 housing unit, SHU. 6 Switch, and that's pretty much anything going 7 MR. : Okay. 7 into the institution or coming out. That's the 8 MR. : Yes. 8 phone record. 9 MR. : And why did they ask you 9 MR. : And based on your review 10 to pull that? 10 when you went in this is the call? 11 MR. : Because they believed Mr. 11 MR. : That was the call, yes. 12 Epstein was given a phone call before all this 12 MR. : And you pulled this up, 13 happened. 13 you handed it over to the SIS or to 14 MR. : And either the warden or 14 (Indiscernible *00:01:05:07)? 15 the SIS aiiiiiiiiito pull that? 15 MR. : Whoever wanted me to -. 16 MR. : To see if actually he got 16 Like I said, there was a lot going on. I was 17 a phone call. To make sure that they put him 17 trying to do a lot. 18 in there to see if he really got a phone call. 18 MR. : And this was Epstein's - 19 MR. : And what was the number 19 based on your recollection - this is Epstein's 20 that was dialed out? 20 last -- 21 MR. : The number that was dialed 21 MR. : Phone call. 22 out, 22 MR. : -- phone call, and that 23 MR. : And how long did that call 23 was provided to the DIG? 24 last? 24 MR. : Yes. 25 MR. : Oh, so the start time was 25 MR. : Okay. Any questions? 99 100 1 ASAC , do you have any other questions? 1 MR. : Okay. 2 MR. : I do not. Thanks. 2 MR. : lust initial and date 3 MR. : Well, that's it from us. 3 anywhere on the document. 4 MR. : Yeah. I thought it was 4 MR. : Today is the -? 5 going to be more. 5 MR. : 4/7. 6 MR. No. 6 MR. : I'm bad with dates. I 7 MR. : Hey, it's because it is a 7 should be better. (Indiscernible 8 lot. I know it's a lot. 8 *00:01:06iiiiiiiii 9 MR. : It's a little confusing. 9 MR. : Same thing. No, you're 10 I should clarify the timing. 10 fine. 11 MR. : Yes. 11 MR. : Okay. 12 MR. : We care only about August 12 MR. • That's part of the same 13 10th and 13 document. Mr. , thank you for taking the 14 MR. : Prior. Yeah. 14 time to talk with us today. 15 MR. : And thank God we were able 15 MR. : Yes. 16 to clarif 16 MR. : And we can't say we're not 17 MR. : Okay. 17 going to come back here with more questions. 18 MR. : Same thing as before. All 18 MR. : Uh-oh. 19 the documents we showed you, we just need you 19 MR. : We might have more 20 to initial -- 20 questions. 21 MR. Oh, okay. 21 MR. : You might have more 22 MR. -- and date it. 22 questions. 23 MR. Okay. 23 MR. : We'll reach out to you if 24 MR. Yeah, let me put this in 24 we do. 25 front of you. 25 MR. : Okay. EFTA00126360 101 102 1 MR. : And we'll set up another CERTIFICATE 2 interview. And thank you again. I hereby certify that the foregoing pages 3 MR. : Uh-huh. represent an accurate transcript of the 4 MR. : This is Special Agent electronic sound recording of the proceedings 5 The time is 11:28 a.m., I'm before the Department of Justice, Office of the 6 concluding this interview. I'm stopping the Inspector General in the matter of: 7 recorder. 8 Interview of 9 10 11 12 Kim Simon, Transcriber 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 EFTA00126361